BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 08:29 AM

Brexit is living proof that bigotry is still alive and kicking in British politics
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 08:32 AM

Ha Ha ............ like it Dave.

However IF 25% of the population does hold anti-semetic views it doesn't always follow that 25% of Labour voters hold those views.

It could be higher, it could be lower. Unless peoples voting inclination were also be asked we simply don't know, apart from UKip which was stated.

Of course I don't expect some contributors to be able to comprehend this.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 08:40 AM

Yes you're correct Raggytash and I apologise, but in my defence it was Jim who brought Ann Coulter into this thread. I thought of ignoring him, but tho' the mind was willing , the flesh was weak :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 08:47 AM

"it was Jim who brought Ann Coulter into this thread."
It was you who brought Brexit into this discussion on antisemitism
"Oh well, that's it all done and dusted then, Brexit here we come!"
We take what we can when we can - just underlining where you stand
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:10 AM

Applying statistics is a stupid thing to arrive at a conclusion.

I know, Jum. We seem to be talking at cross purposes today! I was using the same statistics to prove the opposite of what was being said :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:22 AM

Waste of time Dave
These people are taking it in turns to keep this stupid thread alive - don't help them
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 03:06 PM

"Brexit is living proof that bigotry is still alive and kicking in British politics"
Jim Carroll

And the Brexit vote was brought home by traditional Labour Party voters voting for the UK to LEAVE.

By the bye on the name thing:

I call JIM - JOM because that is how he in the past has referred to himself. By the way Jim it was Gnome who tried to prove something by introducing Poll statistics in this thread.

I refer to Raggy as Raggy because he seems to get selectively Huffy when certain posters refer to him as such, but is quite OK with others using it.

I refer to Shaw as Shaw as I have nothing but contempt for the man.

I refer to Dave the Gnome as "Gnome" as it saves me from typing "Dave the" everytime I address him - He is rather "Gnomish" though, being short, bald, bespectacled, and rotund.

I must admit that I have enjoyed the holiday and tourist ramblings and the mental images conjured of Jim, Raggy, Shaw and Dave scrabbling about o'er hill and dale bears marked similarities to a mixture of "Last of the Summer Wine" and "Lord of the Rings".

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 03:15 PM

"And the Brexit vote was brought home by traditional Labour Party voters voting for the UK to LEAVE."
Nothing to do with racism or antisemitism
"I call JOM - JOM because that is how he in the past has referred to himself"
You are as big a liar a Keith
It was a typo which your limited imagination forced you to pick up on
You have had this explained numerous times
Now you use it to cover up your ignorance and insecurity - by your own adittance, that's why people behave as you do

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 03:34 PM

By the way, you have no idea what brought home the Brexit vote - no survey was done on which voters voted for what
Brexit was won on the old "foreigners stealing our jobs" ticket - instilling insecurity rather than racism - populism
That was the position that right wing parties like you own fought on
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 03:43 PM

Jum? That only leaves Jam and Jem to choose from!

We should ignore the three idiots in this thread whose agenda is to twist meanings and definitions around in an ideology-led campaign to prove that Labour is somehow the cheerleader for antisemitism in this country. The kindest thing would be to assume that they haven't a clue what antisemitism is (it's a tempting thought as none of them ever tries to think it through for themselves, favouring a definition of very dodgy provenance which has been mindlessly adopted by appeasers of Netanyahu and co). Antisemitism is very easy to spot. It doesn't need complicated definitions full of ifs, buts and other qualifications. Wipe Israel off the map and you're attacking Jews because they are Jews. Accuse Jews of conspiring to control banks and big business etc., antisemitic, no argument. Untrue, so don't say it.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 03:43 PM

And the Brexit vote was brought home by traditional Labour Party voters voting for the UK to LEAVE.

"Brexit is living proof that bigotry is still alive and kicking in British politics"
Jim Carroll

For once Carroll is telling the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 04:40 PM

I quiet like being thought as one of the cast of Last of the Summer Wine. I have an admiration of old duffers who still believe they are young at heart .......... long may they do so.

Thanks Territowel

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 05:31 PM

"Nothing to do with racism or anti-Semitism"

Hang on a minute Jom, these are both yours aren't they?

Jim Carroll - 09 Feb 17 - 08:29 AM

"Brexit is living proof that bigotry is still alive and kicking in British politics"

AND

Jim Carroll - 09 Feb 17 - 03:34 PM

"Brexit was won on the old "foreigners stealing our jobs" ticket - instilling insecurity rather than racism - populism"

What form of "bigotry"? And if "foreigners stealing our jobs" is "populist" then its appeal would be targeted at the solid Labour votes of solid Labour constituencies like Sunderland where the vote to LEAVE was over 70%. Appeals to the xenophobic and racist sympathies of the Labour vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 05:36 PM

Only bespectacled for driving, Teribus, and DtG is even shorter than Gnome (pun intended yet again)

I quite like the idea of a mix of Last of the Summer Wine and Lord of the Rings as well. I think of ake as an Ian McKellen character too, but much more like Freddie in 'Vicious' :-) Not sure if Teribus or Keith are the Jacobi character though. Maybe neither and more like 'The Odd Couple'?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 07:21 PM

My sister lives three miles away from the Summer Wine locations. I have a photo of me playing the harmonica theme tune outside Sid's café in Holmfirth. You can see Compo inside.

But never mind that. By the way, my last post was sent prematurely and I had more to say but it stands on its own and I can't be arsed. In the seventies I spent three schoolteachers' long holidays in the north-west highlands, namely in Wester Ross and Sutherland. There is nowhere better on God's earth. I climbed Cul Mhor, Cul Beg, Quinag, Ben Loyal, the Five Sisters, the Saddle and more, and we did the notorious Rock Path from Ullapool to Achiltibuie. Mrs Steve joined me (before she was Mrs Steve) in the hot Easter of 1976 and the long, hot summer of that year. What amazing memories. We stayed in youth hostels, our very favourite being Ratagan when John and Sue Fisher were the wardens, and Achmelvich, when Colin Jolly was at the helm - especially Achmelvich.

I could say more and probably will if we get any more moronic antisemitism shite. Innit!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:01 AM

Whether we get any more of what you refer to as "moronic anti-Semitism shite" with regard to the Labour Party will depend very much on how members of the Labour Party act and whether or not it is reported Shaw, but please by all means keep up the travelogue it sure as hell is an improvement on your usual ideologically biased tripe.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:11 AM

" then its appeal would be targeted at the solid Labour votes of solid Labour constituencies like Sunderland "
It's appeal was to the people whose lives have been fouled up by the fouled up system Britain now has - that's how populism works
Proof of its bigoted nature lies in the rise in racist incidents follwing the result.
Applying it to 'Labour voters' is just right-wing agenda-driven sloganising.
All shades of politics has been debased and disgraced in Britain - 'lying, self-serving politicians is part of the national; psyche.
You keep throwing up these feeble excuses then thinking up yet more when they crash in flames - a war of attrition, just like WW1 and just as crudely fought.
The fact that you still need your insulting rhetoric to deliver you bon mottes is indicative that you are fully aware of the vacuity of your arguments - it makes you look unpleasant and stupid - like all bullies - it always has.
"Jum? That only leaves Jam and Jem to choose from! "
"Doesn't compute, doesn't compute" font confuse his somewhat limited imagination
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:18 AM

"font confuse"
There you go Teribus - another typo for you to get your gums into
Should read "Don't confuse", of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:14 AM

I think you have to go to Shaw for corrections on spelling, punctuation and grammar Jom.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:22 AM

"I think you have to go to Shaw for corrections on spelling, punctuation and grammar Jom."
"Badly written" and typos was your favourite ploy when you ran out of ideas (wich was and is often) and you know it
Roosters coming home
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:24 AM

And still your imbecilic "Jom"
"To ignorant to know and too thick to learn", as they say in Lancashire
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:29 AM

One would think that only labour voters cast their ballots in some regions.

Another thing we need to understand, although some plainly don't, is that there is difference between Labour Party Members and Labour Party Voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:42 AM

Forgot to ask, Steve. On your visits to your sister have you ever come across any number of elderly men careering down the road in an uncontrolled manner in or on any sort of unlikely wheeled conveyance? Just realised as well. Remember me mentioning the 1930s hikers coming off Kinder early one morning? It could well have been Foggy and a soulmate. Not that far from Holmfirth :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:53 AM

Not "Sue Fisher." It was Jan Fisher, who, to my knowledge, is still painting beautiful pictures and who has a gallery At Pittenweem in Fife. Good for a google. John, her husband and the then warden of Ratagan hostel, is also an artist. I have two lovely Jan Fisher watercolours on my wall which I bought from her for a few quid in 1976.

Don't go telling akenaton and Keith about your praise for my travelogues, Teribus. They both think I should be hanged, drawn and quartered for hijacking this precious thread. And do you see how I twisted things there?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:57 AM

It was all very peaceful on the day we did the Summer Wine tourist trail, Dave, the only disturbance being the wail of my harmonica outside the caff. By the way, my sister has a letter in today's Grauniad. See if you can spot it!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:02 AM

Well, if travelogues are now "permissible" my happy hunting ground as a teenager was invariably the Peak District. Train out to Chapel-en-le-Frith or Buxton on a Friday evening, a walk to a YHA, all day Saturday walking and then Sunday walk to a train station and back to Manchester.
A walk of 30-35 miles on a Saturday was quite common.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:05 AM

Yep - Found it. Good point too considering the blurring of fact and fiction around here at times :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:06 AM

1: "It's appeal was to the people whose lives have been fouled up by the fouled up system Britain now has - that's how populism works"

Since 1973 the EU has played a major role in whatever "system Britain now has". How "populism" works Jim, is that a political party jumps on the bandwagon of issues the public are vocal about. They then campaign touting policies that seek to address those issues which they know full well will be popular - hence the term "populist".

2: Proof of its bigoted nature lies in the rise in racist incidents follwing the result.

I would think that the number of "bigots" remained unchanged pre and post Brexit. The result emboldened some of them to act who otherwise would not have acted.

3: Applying it to 'Labour voters' is just right-wing agenda-driven sloganising.

Suggestion for you Jim, quite easy and it does not take 5 minutes of your time. Go on Google and do two searches:

Search 1 - EU Referendum results in Maps
Search 2 - 2015 UK General Election results in Maps

The 2015 GE was not really all that great for Labour so the latter search throws up what I would call "hard core Labour" areas. Compare those to the areas that were the strongest Leave areas in the EU Referendum - You will find that apart from London - they were the same. (Now I know that you will not do that Jim, but others following this thread might and they will see that I am telling the truth.).

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:35 AM

"Since 1973 the EU has played a major role in whatever "system Britain now has""
Britain became fouled up long before the E.U. was a twinkle in Britain's eye.
It started when the Tories began dismantling the limited progressive policies introduced by the post war Labour Government and reached its peak under Thatcher, who silenced the voice of working people in their place of work and set about destroying Britain's industrial base.
The E.U. was never more than an attempt by failing Capitalism to act in unison to stop the rot - a co-operation of Capitalist nations.
Whatever its failings, workers under Capitalism gained some limited advantages - not ideal, but better than what was happening.
Now that's gone.
"I would think that the number of "bigots" remained unchanged pre and post Brexit."
Brexit opened the door to racist and bigoted behaviour - it was won of a bigotry ticket.
"EU Referendum results in Maps"
Britain overall is a racist country - a quarter of those surveyed on their racist vies indicated that to be the case - part of the heritage left to us by Empire
Attempting to islolate that to Labour voters is as stupid as it gats.
This thread has been about Labour Party members supposed antisemitism, not that of Labour voters.
If you are suggesting that working people are more racist than any other class in Britain, you are even more extreme and stupid as you have already prved yourself to be.
Racism among the less well off is the result of the fear generated by scum like Ukip and the BNP, and fortified by vote seeking politicians who blame immigration on the failures of society rather than their own greed and incompetence - scapegoat politics - a favourite in Nazi Germany where the Jews were the target.
You really are a little goose-stepper, aren't you?
"Jom"
Still the same old, same old imbecility -are you really so insecure in your position?
For crying out loud, grow up and try to conduct a reasonable argument without the blustering bullshit - how old are you?
It's like trying to discuss with a truculent child
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:41 AM

On a much pleasanter topic Tornado loco 60163 will be passing within half a mile of our house on Monday evening on its way to haul Northern Rail trains between Skipton and Appleby from the 14th to the 16th of Feb. I am no big rail buff or anything but I think it is nice to see these things. I am also at Ribblehead next weekend but, sadly, will not see it going over the Ribblehead viaduct as the service will have finished by then. Ah well, can't have everything.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:01 AM

"Much pleasanter topic," Dave? How can it be when you're blatantly using it to bully and intimidate akenaton, boobs and Keith! Next time they come in here with their pathetic attempts to get this thread back on track, I'm going to metaphorically beat them round the head with a maidenhair fern frond, just you wait and see!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:14 AM

Marsh Fragrant Orchids abound on the Connemara from early May. Literally thousands of them. There are other species as well which I may well describe later on.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 08:30 AM

Yes, I must apologise for that. I did not realise that holidays, beauty spots and wild flowers were so intimidating. In future I shall stick to nice fluffy topics such as terrorists, mass murderers and paedophiles.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 08:37 AM

If you no longer wish to continue the thread, why not let it die instead of drivelling on about plants and holidays. Grow up and start another dedicated thread if you wish to bore everyone with a travelogue.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 08:46 AM

Ah Iains, some of us like talking about holidays, flowers etc, I could suggest if you don't like reading about them you don't read the posts.

Much easier I think.

Let me tell you about Dr Heather Greer, an acquaintance of mine. Last year she published a beautiful book entitled "On Your Doorstep" which details the moths and butterflies commonly found near where she lives on the Aughrus Peninsula, which is on the Connemara

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 08:51 AM

"If you no longer wish to continue the thread, why not let it die instead of drivelling on about plants and holidays."
If you wish to take part in this thread, feel free to do so - this is your only posting to this thread to date, so how people conduct themselves on it is really none of your business.
This thread has been flogged to death by people who wish to denigrate the Labour Party with false accusations - to my recollection it is the fourth on all prolonged by the same gang
Not a scrap of material proof has been proved of antisemitism but it hasn't stopped the Gang of Three?four from trying
It is long overdue that they either put up their proof or put ther cuase down to a miserably failed one.
You want to give us evidence of antisemitism beyond unqualified accusations, feel free
Otherwise, it really is nothing to do with you
Have a nice day
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 08:56 AM

It's a funny thing, Raggy. Those who complain about the content of threads cannot seem to resist looking at them. It reminds me of the Mary Shitehouse and Lord Longknob fiasco where they had to study pornography constantly just to see how bad it was. I can only put it down to a masochistic streak. Or maybe just a need to complain? Perhaps if they spent more time studying our beautiful world they would not be so petulant.

I will try to be back while it is still light at Ribblehead so we can have a look at what is growing near by then we can report to Steve on anything interesting. Last time I found a pair of knickers!

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:05 AM

"Last time I found a pair of knickers!"
"Last night's Fun" as they are referred to around here!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:10 AM

One of my mates here found a single, black sock in the street. Over the next few months we would text each other if we saw one, which was quite often. On one occasion we came across 3 black socks together ........... very strange

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:21 AM

...and why is there always a single trainer by the side of a busy road?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:57 AM

"..and why is there always a single trainer by the side of a busy road?"
Do you fellers know about the single trainer hanging over the overhead telephone wires?
Raggy probably does, being where he is!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:59 AM

It's usually a pair hanging over the wires near where we were in Salford. Not seen it much in the Dales.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 10:04 AM

A local Guard (boy in blue) told me that it's an indication that drugs are available locally - never tested the claim
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 10:05 AM

Not there at the moment Jim, but I once saw a watercolour in a pub in Ireland which had birds on the telegraph wires. On looking closer I saw they depicted musical notation, very clever I thought except that it was the notation for the British National Anthem.

Say nowt was my policy, but the next time I visited the print has gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 10:07 AM

Sorry - should be a pair of trainers tied together by the laces obviously
Multi-tasking getting teh batter of me
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 10:09 AM

Oh - Forgot to tell you, Raggy. I have a roll of toilet paper with a picture of Donald Trump's face on each sheet :-) I'll try to save you some if you like but I suspect it will vanish pretty quickly in the bunk house.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 10:11 AM

I think I have more respect for my arse than to use it.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 10:19 AM

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 11:08 AM

Two elderly Welsh neighbours relieving themselves in their outside lavortories at the bottom of their respective yards.
"Hmmmmm – is that you Mrs Evans?"
"Hmmmmm – it is Mrs Jones"
"Hmmmmm – been meaning to ask you; how's your son Dai doin' – haven't seen him round lately"
"Hmmmmm – 'es livin in Cardiff"
"Hmmmmm – big town - what's 'e doin' there?"
"Hmmmmm – 'e's in the theatre, 'e's playin' Hamlet".
"Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm", ooo! That's a hard part".

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 11:29 AM

If anyone finds a camera case to fit an Olympus Trip at the the bottom of Ill Bell in the Lake District, it's mine. Blew out of my hand in a gale when we were standing on the summit in 1981.