BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 09:50 AM

Jim, your Denmark link is highly critical of the Danish Ambassador who advocated that Israel should be held to different standards than other countries.
Concluding sentences,

"EU still knowingly and purposefully provides substantial direct financial assistance to settlements in occupied territory – in Turkish-occupied Northern Cyprus, that is. So the EU funds the occupation of an EU member state. Turkey's invasion and occupation of Cyprus in 1974 was condemned by the UN Security Council, and the EU's official policy is that the Turkish occupation is illegitimate, and Turkey must completely withdraw. The EU does not recognize the Turkish government in Northern Cyprus. Nonetheless, the EU maintains an entire separate program to direct funds to Northern Cyprus."[4]
It is a clear example of how the EU discriminates against Israel by demanding higher standards from Israel than it demands from itself. The Danish ambassador's statements ambassador's statements serve as a good example of where Ugly Europe (the UE) and the European Union overlap.
How the Danes greatly embellish their wartime past by not mentioning the Danish mass murders of Jews in Eastern Europe is yet another story."

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 09:50 AM

The first hit that comes up from Google:

A former Al Jazeera America employee has sued the news cabler for wrongful termination, claiming he was fired after complaining about anti-Semitic and sexist behavior by a senior executive.

Matthew Luke filed suit Tuesday in New York Supreme Court, claiming that Al Jazeera America exec Osman Mahmud has expressed anti-Semitic statementsand taken discriminatory actions against female employees. Luke's suit claims that after he complained about Mahmud's behavior to human resources in February, he was fired 10 days later.

Luke had served as AJA's supervisor of media and archive management since May 2013, before the news channel formally launched on what had been Current TV.

The suit seeks $5 million in compensatory damages and another $10 million in punitive damages. Mahmud is named as a defendant along with AJA.

AJA said it would not comment on pending litigation. But in a statement it added: "The company takes these matters seriously and will respond in the appropriate forum. Al Jazeera America's commitment to diversity and inclusion is fundamental to its mission, and is boldly reflected throughout the company: in its staff, its leadership and its programming."

The complaint claims that Mahmud, who was recently promoted to senior VP of broadcast operations and technology, went out of his way to exclude women from key meetings and to replace female employees with men in key roles.

Most explosively, the suit claims that Mahmud made anti-Semitic remarks including the statement "whoever supports Israel should die a fiery death in hell."

The suit also claims that AJA executives exhibited an "anti-American" bias in recent months as key executives recruited for the U.S. operation were replaced with Middle Eastern execs from the parent Al Jazeera org, which is based in Qatar and funded by an offshoot of the state government.

The picture of anti-American activity painted in the complaint is sure to be fodder for AJA critics who have blasted the channel from the start as being connected to terrorist and Islamist fundamentalist orgs in the Middle East. Al Jazeera has long maintained that its goal was to build a credible and objective newsgathering operation in the U.S. as a linchpin of its global news network.

Variety

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 09:51 AM

You could add 'Delaney's Donkey' to your list, Steve. Anything but Fields of f***ing Athenry (The extra phrasing requires time signature change to 9/8)

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 09:58 AM

Your "BelgiumSwitzerland" link is over eight years old, and your Britain link just tells us that Britain opposes the settlements. So does every country Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:13 AM

Mohamed Fahmy: NY Times

in 2013, Egypt moved to ban Al Jazeera's Arabic service in the country, known as Mubasher Misr, because it was perceived as a Qatari-sponsored propaganda mouthpiece for the Brotherhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:15 AM

...or maybe even 7/4?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:16 AM

Yeah, Keith, and the Daily Telegraph, the Mail and Fox News are all paragons!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:20 AM

Eric Nisbet, a communications professor at Ohio State University who has studied Arab media and anti-Americanism, says it's important to distinguish between the English and Arabic channels of Al Jazeera.

The English channel has a very cosmopolitan perspective and is staffed largely by former corespondents from the BBC and U.S. networks, he says.

The Arabic channel, not surprisingly, is aimed squarely at an Arab audience and prides itself on giving voice to a wide range of perspectives from throughout the region.

The result? At times it airs the views of extremists, "sometimes without challenging them as much as they should," Nisbet says. "There are definitely some biases in that they are an Arabic channel for Arab audiences."

And yes, there is anti-Semitism, Nisbet adds. "Unfortunately in Arabic political discourse there is a great deal of anti-Semitism. The conversation there about Israel and American foreign policy is very different from our discourse in the U.S."

Thought Co.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:25 AM

Were supposedly discussing valid sources and boobs comes up with "Variety," a showbiz mag! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:30 AM

Easy to see why Shaw is a fan of Al Jazeera:

Al-Jazeera has failed to remove a barrage of anti-Semitism and even online incitement to violence that followed its investigation into London's Israeli Embassy.

The broadcaster was yesterday alerted by Jewish News to the racist postings that includes conspiracy theories about Israel and 9/11, vile references to the Holocaust and claims Israel controls US and UK politics. The comments – which contravene the broadcaster's own rules – were were among 230 posts under an online article about the six-month sting in which an Israeli Embassy employee was filmed talking about 'taking down' foreign minister Alan Duncan.

One user said the 'British turn to warm up the gas chambers again", while another wrote "a good K yke is a gassed K yke". A further reader added: "And your point, Jew boy? I remember my gran pappy telling me how he used to cut the noses off K ykes before kicking them into the ovens. I love my gran pappy very much."

"Israel knew about 9/11," offered another user of the site. "But Jews own america and have brainwashed America."

There was even an example of incitement to violence in the string. "Kill and burn any Israeli or Israeli supporter along with their families. Any Israeli pig left should be sent back to his/her pig farm in Europe."

Jewish News Online

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:32 AM

Cor, talk about selective! Bobad's selected chunk from his Thought Co link went on to say, just after where he snipped it:

Nisbet hastens to add that the channel also frequently features representatives from the U.S. and Israeli governments, and that it is widely watched in Israel.

Even given the network's problems, Nisbet, like Baum, believes Al Jazeera, at least in its English-speaking incarnation, should be aired more widely on U.S. television.

"We as a country need to know what other people think of us," he says. "If we really want to make informed decisions about foreign policy and about the opportunities and challenges we face overseas, we need to hear that perspective. Al Jazeera provides a very non-American window on the world that we need to be looking through."

Now I wonder why you didn't us about THAT bit, boobs! 😂😂😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:45 AM

Im not a "fan" of Al Jazeera. I treat all news outlets with the same degree of scepticism, as I've said here several times. Your piece from the Jewish News Online shows the very worst traits of the kind of tabloidism that I always rail against: it poses as a news item, yet it is full of opinion and polemic. Utterly dishonest and dishonourable journalism. Even the Daily Mail manages to be more subtle than that. It's all very well criticising al Jazeera when that's the sort of thing you come up with in response!


That bloody hole in my drive is staring sullenly at me...

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:55 AM

Blimey, Fields of Athenry is such a dirge. He should have stopped after two verses. If not Delaney's Donkey, Dave, how about Saddle The Pony? That would keep the going-upmarket animal theme alive, goat to donkey to pony! Is there a tune name with "thoroughbred" in it? But don't even THINK about "Ride On." Aargh!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 11:34 AM

"My lovely horse" from father Ted would work :-)

'ere. you know I was finishing off reading 'Wyrd Sisters' yesterday? Well, I did and I had fogotten how significant it could be to some of these 'discussions' (Not quotes in an ake sort of way - Just because I am not at all sure they are discussions). The premise in part is that words have a magic all of their own. They can change things for better or worse and in the book someone tries to perform a play to show the witches in a bad light. The plot fails of course and the witches and common sense win through. Shame it doesn't happen like that here :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 02:00 PM

Unfortunately in Arabic political discourse there is a great deal of anti-Semitism.

Unfortunately in Israeli (and lately USA) political discourse there is a great deal of Islamophobia.

Moving right along.......

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 02:09 PM

Keith - you are truely one of the most evilly dishonest people I have ever come across
You have the evidence of the massive series of human rights abuses carried out by the Israelis and you have h
ve denied every single one without fail
I hope you enjoy your inhumanity as much as I have enjoyed exposing it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 02:37 PM

Jim,
You have the evidence of the massive series of human rights abuses carried out by the Israelis and you have h
ve denied every single one without fail

I have denied none. I just exposed the lack of evidence for any of them.

I hope you enjoy your inhumanity as much as I have enjoyed exposing it.

You are yet to expose any such thing. How could you? It is just another of your lies.
If you are not lying, quote one single inhumane post.
Just one will do. Make it the very worst one.
Good luck with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 03:04 PM

As usual Jim, you give up trying to make a case, and start making up lies about me personally instead.
You do it every time!
You might as well hoist a white flag.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 03:17 PM

We'll have less of that exposing if you don't mind. There was enough trouble calming the old ladies in Blackpool down after the incident on the tower. Luckily they were the same ones that were at the bingo game with missing balls and photocopied cards. They forgot all about missing balls after that sight...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 03:48 PM

There are some people around here with big balls and nothing else!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 04:04 PM

Unfortunately in Israeli (and lately USA) political discourse there is a great deal of Islamophobia.

Statistics do show that Muslims are victims of Islamophobic hate crimes, fortunately for them the statistics also show that these represent but a fraction of all hate crimes directed against people because of their religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 04:18 PM

"As usual Jim, you give up trying to make a case,"
I've made a case Keith - you are now reduced to dishonesty
You deny the facts and have resorted with stupid stonewalling
I hav long stopped posting for your benefit Keith - you are what you are and as far as I am concerned, the oly thing to do is allow you to underline what you are yourself.
"You might as well hoist a white flag."
You really can't get anywhere wityh someone who adopts a "win at all costs" attitude to debate.
Wo else believes your argument here - I'm sure even Bobad wouldn't lower himself to taking up your stupid argument
Teribus has had the sense to keep away
Aker - well - Ake is like Billy Connolly's policeman = you only have to ask him a question to confuse him.
You are an extremist and in order to win something you have lied and disitoted more than has ever happened on this forum
You have come a long way since you were reprimanded for posting under a fake name
A sad, individual
Jim Carroll

I realise that the opinions od decent working people are not your thing, but this is the call for BDS by the Communication workers here support going out in Ireland at present - perhaps they were "brainwashed to hate Israel as you claimed Irish children were the British

Welcome / Activists / Campaigns / Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions for Israel
Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions for Israel

Please note that the CWU's support for the Palestinian-led international Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement is not an "Anti-Israel" or "Anti-Semitic" position; it is an answer to Palestinian civil society's call for solidarity. Furthermore, our condemnation of Israel's military actions within Gaza does not constitute, in any way, support for any Palestinian political or military faction.
The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet; the 360km sq. enclave is home to approximately 1.8 million Palestinians. Its borders are closed on all sides, controlled mostly by Israel, excluding a small border in the south which is controlled by Egypt. Israel also controls Gaza's airspace and territorial waters, leaving no way out for this besieged people, whether in times of incredible violence or in times of relative calm.

1. WHAT ARE THE ISSUES?

The Siege of Gaza (Israeli Blockade)
Since 2007, Israel has laid siege to the Gaza Strip, blockading the enclave by land, sea and air. The Gaza Strip is now essentially an 'open air prison', with the movement of people and goods severely restricted by the Israeli military. These restrictions are so tight that musical instruments, crayons, canned fruit and fresh meat are among the items banned from entering. This blockade has led to severe hardship and poverty; a situation amounting to collective punishment and which is now considered to be a humanitarian disaster. Richard Falk, the UN Special Rapporteur for the Occupied Palestinian Territories said: "Such a massive form of collective punishment is a crime against humanity, as well as a gross violation of the prohibition on collective punishment in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention."

Home Demolitions
Since 1967, Israel has demolished more than 38,000 Palestinian homes, aimed at collectively punishing Palestinians or making way for illegal Israeli settlements. This practice has continuously been condemned by the United Nations, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.

Illegal Settlements
Since 1967, Israel has continued to build illegal settlements in Palestinian territories it occupies, despite constant condemnation by the United Nations, including the United States, Israel's main supporter. Israelis are encouraged, through generous state compensation schemes, to settle in these colonies. The aim of the Israeli state is to increasingly colonise the West Bank thus making a viable Palestinian state impossible. These settlements are linked up by segregated roads, which Palestinians are forbidden from using.

Separation Wall
In April 2002, Israel began constructing an enormous wall around the occupied West Bank, ostensibly to prevent potential suicide bombers entering Israel. As a result, more than 10% of the West Bank has been annexed, with families and neighbourhoods divided by the concrete barrier. Widely known as the 'Apartheid Wall', the structure stands 8 metres (25ft) high and will span more than 700km once completed. In 2004, the International Court of Justice (Advisory Opinion 131) found the wall to be illegal because it vastly encroached upon Palestinian land and recommended Israel dismantle it. Despite the finding, Israel has refused to comply. The Red Cross, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have also spoken out against the wall.

War Crimes
Israel's war crimes have been widely documented by human rights monitors, civil society organisations within Palestine, Israel and the wider international community, and the United Nations. For example, in 2009 an UN-backed mission of inquiry found that Israel committed "serious war crimes and breaches of humanitarian law, which may amount to crimes against humanity" (Source: Goldstone Report, 2009). Yet Israel is granted impunity as the United States, its closest ally and largest military aid provider, shields it from any decisive action for such crimes and the EU continues trade, research and civil cooperation projects.


                                                                                                            

2. WHY IS THIS APARTHEID?

The 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court defines apartheid as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them". The acts which fall within the domain of apartheid include the following: (1) murder; (2) torture; (3) inhuman treatment and arbitrary arrest of members of a racial group; (4) deliberate imposition on a racial group of living conditions calculated to cause it physical destruction; (5) legislative measures that discriminate in the political, social, economic and cultural fields; (6) measures that divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate residential areas for racial groups; (7) the prohibition of interracial marriages; and (8) the persecution of persons opposed to apartheid (Source: Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid, Prof. John Dugard).

The acts prescribed to the crime of apartheid read like a catalogue of Israeli practices and policies in Gaza and the occupied West Bank, to wit:

(1) Murder

8,900+ Palestinians killed by Israeli military since 2000 (vast majority were civilians);

(2) Torture

At least 72 Palestinians tortured to death in Israeli prisons since 1967;

(3) Arbitrary Arrest

Israel allows for the arbitrary detention of any Palestinian civilian for up to 6 months without trial and detention orders can be extended indefinitely for additional 6-month periods. In practice, however, many have been detained for much longer periods, some up to or over 7 years. There are now roughly 6,000 Palestinians – including at least 200 children, 17 women and 11 elected Palestinian officials – being held in Israeli prisons or detention centres;

(4) Physical Destruction

The Israeli military made precise calculations of the daily calorie needs of Palestinians in 2008 and restricted the type and amount of food allowed to enter Gaza as a form of collective punishment. This action was taken after Hamas won elections and went on to take control of Gaza in 2007, with Israel subsequently deeming the region a 'hostile territory';

(5) Discrimination

The call to recognise Israel as a 'Jewish State' entrenches the policy of preserving institutionalised Jewish privilege in the majority of the Palestine-Israel region, through ethnic separation and exclusion; Israel operates separate legal systems for Palestinians and Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories and within Israel, Palestinian citizens face a raft of legal discrimination;

(6) Separate Residential Areas

Illegal Jewish settlements – connected by segregated roads – in the occupied West Bank have more than doubled since 2000, exceeding 500,000 settlers living on land beyond the pre-1967 borders. This is in contravention of numerous UN Security Council resolutions deeming these settlements illegal and demanding a halt to construction;

(7) Interracial Marriage

There is no civil marriage in Israel, marriages are only allowed on a confessional basis meaning that without conversion people of different religions cannot marry;

(8) Persecution

The persecution of the Palestinian people has been ongoing since 1947. What was recently witnessed in Gaza was only the latest in a long line of Israeli crimes perpetrated against the Palestinian people.

[Top]

                                                                                                            

3. MYTHBUSTER

(1) Israel does not occupy the Gaza Strip

14% of Gaza's total land and at least 48% of total arable land are taken up by Israel-imposed buffer zones. While 85% of the maritime area promised to Palestinians in the Oslo Accords is taken up by such buffer zones, reducing fishing areas from twenty nautical miles to three (Source: Boston Globe). Furthermore, Israel controls the population registry for residents of the Gaza Strip, despite withdrawing its ground forces and settlements from the enclave in 2005 (Source: Human Rights Watch).

(2) Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire but Israel does

A Hamas spokesperson said the group wants the "aggression to stop tomorrow, today, or even this minute. But [Israel must] lift the blockade with guarantees and not as a promise for future negotiations". The spokesperson went on to say: "we will not shut the door in the face of any humanitarian ceasefire backed by a real aid programme" (Source: Al Jazeera). Hamas proposed a 10-year end to hostilities in return for its conditions being met by Israel, the day after an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire, which had been accepted by Israel but rejected by Hamas (Source: Jerusalem Post, emphasis added). It was also reported that Israel's security cabinet rejected a week-long Gaza ceasefire proposal put forward by US Secretary of State John Kerry "as it stands" (Source: BBC).

(3) Israel doesn't deliberately target civilians

The Guardian newspaper reported that a second [Israeli] shell hit the beach, with those firing apparently adjusting their aim to target fleeing survivors. Journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: "They are only children" – regarding the murder of four Palestinian boys playing on the beach in July 2014 (Source: The Guardian). The tactics used by the Israeli military in the Gaza offensive are consistent with previous practices, most recently during the Lebanon war in 2006. A concept known as the Dahiya doctrine emerged then, involving the application of disproportionate force and the causing of great damage and destruction to civilian property and infrastructure, and suffering to civilian populations. A UN Fact Finding Mission concluded from a review of the facts on the ground that it appears to have been precisely what was put into practice (Source: UN Fact Finding Mission on Gaza Conflict, 2009).

(4) Israel is not guilty of war crimes

The Israeli military may have knowingly or recklessly attacked people who were clearly civilians – such as young boys and civilian structures, including a hospital – laws-of-war violations that are indicative of war crimes (Source: Human Rights Watch). Deliberately attacking a civilian home is a war crime, and the overwhelming scale of destruction of civilian homes, in some cases with entire families inside them, points to a distressing pattern of repeated violations of the laws-of-war (Source: Amnesty International).

(5) Hamas uses civilians as 'human shields'

"I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields" (Source: Jeremy Bowen, BBC). It was reported by The Guardian newspaper that it has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay (Source: The Guardian). In 2013 a United Nations human rights body accused the Israeli military of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields (Source: Reuters).

(6) Hamas constantly fires rockets into Israel

The Times of Israel reported that Hamas launched a series of rockets into Israel, the first time in years the group had directly challenged the Israeli state. The Israeli security forces assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier, killing one person and injuring three. Hamas had not fired any rockets into Israel since 'Operation Pillar of Defense' ended in November 2012 (Source: Times of Israel, emphasis added).

(7) Hamas kidnapped and killed three Israeli teenagers to provoke Israel

It was reported that the Israeli government knew from the beginning that the three Israeli teenagers were dead. It maintained the fiction that it hoped to find them alive as a pretext to dismantle Hamas' West Bank operations. It was clear from the beginning that the kidnappers, from a Hamas-linked Hebron family, acted without the knowledge of Hamas leadership (Source: Jewish Daily Forward).

(8) Israel's blockade is not to blame for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza

Israel confirmed to US Embassy officials on multiple occasions that it intends to keep the Gazan economy functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis. Israeli officials have confirmed on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge (Source: US State Department).

(9) The Israeli government wants a two-state solution

Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, made explicitly clear that he could never countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank. Amid the current conflict, he elaborated: "I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan" (Source: Times of Israel).

[Top]

                                                                                                            

4. THE BDS MOVEMENT: BOYCOTT, DIVESTMENT, SANCTIONS

On the 9th July 2005, 170 Palestinian civil society organisations, including trade unions, refugee rights associations, charitable organisations, academics and cultural groups, called for an international movement to impose boycotts, divestment and sanctions on the state of Israel. This nonviolent tactic was inspired by a similar boycott campaign that was used against Apartheid South Africa to isolate the then white supremacist government. Similarly, this boycott campaign is aimed at forcing Israel to guarantee Palestinians their inalienable human rights.

The key demands of the BDS Movement are for Israel to:

(1) End its occupation and colonisation of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantle the Wall

(2) Recognise the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality

(3) Respect, protect and promote the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194

The BDS Movement has been growing rapidly in recent years, with a number of high-profile individuals lending their support, including Pink Floyd's Roger Waters, renowned scientist Stephen Hawking and Ireland's own Damien Dempsey. In 2009, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions reaffirmed its support for the BDS campaign in response to ongoing Israeli human rights violations.

PUT MY NAME DOWN BROTHER
WHERE DO I SIGN

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 04:30 PM

Judging from the lie in the first few words of the diatribe posted: Since 2007, Israel has laid siege to the Gaza Strip, we can rest assured that the entire piece is nothing but the usual anti-Semitic propaganda and anti-Israel hate speech that is Carroll's stock-in-trade.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 05:34 PM

"Statistics do show that..." Weasel words.

"...the statistics also show that..." More weasel words.

Before you bite back I suggest you look up "weasel words" on wiki.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 06:22 PM

Sorry for your butthurt Shaw, I know it's not easy to accept when your ideology gets destroyed by facts but put your man panties on and man up.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 06:26 PM

fortunately for [Muslims] the statistics also show that these represent but a fraction of all hate crimes

I'm sure that comforts the dead victims' families no end, Boo.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 06:45 PM

That's a pretty silly and immature response, boobs. You were using weasel words. Bang to rights. Man up and deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 07:03 PM

Greg, according to your friend Dave, the most anti-Muslim hate crimes being committed today are by Muslims in the Middle East. I would suggest that you have chosen the wrong battlefield in your championing of Islamophobia and instead are practicing knee-jerk whataboutery to the overwhelming prevalence of anti-Semitism in the world today.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 07:08 PM

That's a pretty silly and immature response,

Right Shaw, tell us some more about your flowers, snobby foodism, and the holes in your gravel drive.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 07:53 PM

Even though you can't expect to defeat the absurdity of the world, you must make that attempt. That's morality, that's religion. That's art. That's life.

- Phil Ochs

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 08:19 PM

"When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest, to be subjugated and mastered."

-Robert F. Kennedy, April 5, 1968 murdered by the Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan for his vocal support for Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 08:26 PM

Phil Ochs would shit on your silly head. You don't deserve to breathe the same air. And I'll tell you about my flowers and the hole in my drive and my grub until the cows come home at times of my choosing. In the meantime, you used weasel words in place of debate. Bang to rights. You seem to think that I'll let that pass if you spout enough obfuscating shit in the meantime. But I won't. Ask Teribus. I have this ability to focus and get the bit between my teeth. You tried to bullshit us with weasel words about what "statistics show." Well we are not that stupid. Yes, "WE!"

Actually, since you mention it, I didn't quite get the hole filled as I met with complications that I won't bore you with, but I need to access a bit of hardcore before I can add the gravel topping. I possess the right materials and am halfway there. All this digging is making my muscles big. That is not intended as a threat. And I'm in a bad mood because I had to ditch my pasta e fagioli tonight due to a batch of borlotti beans that wouldn't soften even after two hours' boiling. Bastards. Bloody Waitrose too. I should have resorted to tinned but it was too late by the time I decided to ditch the project. Had to resort to a jar of pistachio pesto stirred into short pasta with added basil and Parmesan. Bloody good it was, but I hate culinary defeat. More on that later, in the words of Kirsty Wark. As for the flowers, I'll update you tomorrow, my little petal. 😆

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 08:47 PM

"Robert F. Kennedy, April 5, 1968 murdered by the Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan for his vocal support for Israel."

Any idea why you felt the need to insert "Palestinian" into that sentence? It may strike you as odd, but a very large number of non-Palestinians also dislike politicians in the US who express vocal support for Israel. Would you like us to think that Palestinians are all bloodthirsty murderers at worst or supporters of Sirhan at best? You must have had your reason...

Careful now! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 08:49 PM

Hate those statistics do you Shaw? It's because they show you to be full of shit and your ideology to be as phony as you are. Unmasked for the lying hypocrite you are. 😂😂😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 09:02 PM

Er, you didn't give us any statistics! All you said was that " statistics show that..." etc.! So how would I know whether I hate them or not?! Give us the statistics, I'll check 'em out (which is what you're afraid of, of course), then I'll tell you whether I love them or hate them! It's past your bedtime, fella! Try to get someone to read your bedtime book to you, The Adventures Of Spot The Dog perhaps. Oh, hang on - you probably won't be able to follow the plot...

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 09:07 PM

Anyway, enough of this entertainment. I must to bed. I have a hole to fill in the morning. In my gravel drive, yer dirty-minded buggers! Duh!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 09:31 PM

Any idea why you felt the need to insert "Palestinian" into that sentence?

Another inconvenient truth that upsets your prejudiced world view - good, I'll keep them coming.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 09:56 PM

Nothing inconvenient about knowing the bloke's nationality. Why would there be? The guy who killed his older brother was not a Palestinian. Should we mention that fact every time? The guy who killed Abe - not a Palestinian. The blokes who killed 50 people in London in July 2005 - not Palestinians. The guys who shoot up high schools in America - not Palestinians. The Hungerford and Dunblane killers - not Palestinians. Loads of people who kill other people are not Palestinians. A few are Palestinians, admittedly. John Hinckley Jr, not a Palestinian. Turkish guy who shot the Pope - dodgy one, this - not a Palestinian. Guy who shot Lennon - not a Palestinian. Bali bombers - not Palestinians. So, the question remains: why did you insert "Palestinian" into that sentence? What is that word intended to convey? If nothing, why did you use it? Answer the question! Careful now! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Mar 17 - 10:32 PM

So, facts and inconvenient truths have got the ideologues on the run now. It must be a total bummer when you realize you've been backing the wrong horse all this time. But, hey, it's never too late to admit you're wrong and get back on the right track. Go for it Shaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 05:15 AM

Jim,

"As usual Jim, you give up trying to make a case,"
I've made a case Keith - you are now reduced to dishonesty
You deny the facts and have resorted with stupid stonewalling

IF YOU ARE NOT LYING ABOUT WHAT I HAVE SAID, QUOTE ME!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 05:19 AM

Steve,
"Statistics do show that..." Weasel words.
"...the statistics also show that..." More weasel words.

As Bobad has actually produced those statistics, he is reminding you of facts, not using "weasel words."
Look it up Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 05:25 AM

"Israel has laid siege to the Gaza Strip"
Remind us how long the BLOCKADE has been going on Bobad
"Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan "
Wonder where British Fred and Betty West leaves us Brits, or Baruch Kopel Goldstein and Nicolai Bonner leaves the Israelis, or Ted Bundy leaves the Americans
The two countries with the largest number of serial killers are The United states (Gold medal) and Britain (silver medal)
What a sicko line of argument - even for Bobad
Jim Carroll
Forgot to mention the 1,492 civilian men women and children slaughteres by the Israelis in the 2015 invasion of Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 05:28 AM

Good morning Jim.
Are you going to quote me saying what you claimed, or do you acknowledge it was just your latest lies?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 05:43 AM

"IF YOU ARE NOT LYING ABOUT WHAT I HAVE SAID, QUOTE ME!"
Happy to oblige Keith - just this once
Do Scandinavian states "recognise Israel's criminal behaviour?"
No they do not.
EU states?
No.
USA or Canada?
No.
Australia or New Zealand?
No.
India?
No.
The fact that self serving governments stay silent about war crimes and acts of terror when it is in their interests to do so, as they did about Assed's torture chambers, and America's slaughter off the Vietnamese people - is meaningless shite and it is stonewalling to offer it as a defence of Israel
Is THIS, and the fact that the Saudis are favourite customers for British arms and endorsement of their behavior?
If it isn't, you have no case - why should Britain look favourably on on terrorist regime and not another.
You have the facts - you are incapable if answering them honestly because of your extreme racist bigotry.
Cenre-right, my arse
You are the most extreme extremist on this forum
You have targeted Muslim culture and religion, Irish "brainwashed to hate Britain" children, immigrants and evicted and persecuted travellers with your incessant and obsessive bigotry
I can still remember the "no Dogs, no Irish" signs that were produced and you continued to deny
People like you would be dangerous if you were taken seriously
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 06:04 AM

Did I mention the "no Travellers served here" signs you spent weeks defending, or the three days of rioting in Belfast which you attempted to blame on children, or the violent sectarian marches which you tried to pass of as a pleasant day out?
Don't think I did!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 06:58 AM

I am sure you spotted it, Steve, but "your friend Dave" did not say the most anti-Muslim hate crimes being committed today are by Muslims in the Middle East. I did say that hate crimes were hate crimes regardless of who committed them but poobad and his friends seem to think it is OK if Muslims kill other Muslims.

I went to Morris dance practice last night and managed to squeeze a few tunes on the concertina. Now, there is a crime against humanity. Pity the poor dancers :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 07:02 AM

Keith, we've been all over those curious statistics already. If they show anything at all they show that the problem they are supposed to be demonstrating is almost negligible. Aside from that, if you wish to invoke statistics that you've already used, especially when it was days ago in a long and busy thread, you don't just say "statistics show that...". You say "the statistics that I presented on Xth March show that...". How am I supposed to know which statistics he meant? And he hasn't clarified, despite being challenged. You lose. 🤡

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 08:26 AM

poobad and his friends seem to think it is OK if Muslims kill other Muslims.

Oh,do we Dave? I don't suppose you'd care to provide evidence of that. How about if I said Dave and his friends seem to think it's alright that Jews should be slaughtered by Muslims? Is that the level of discourse that you have sunk to since joining the pack of hyenas? Sad!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 08:41 AM

Tell you what poobad. I will provide evidence of that when you provide evidence that I said "the most anti-Muslim hate crimes being committed today are by Muslims in the Middle East".

Steve - I feel a Wheatcroft moment coming on. You can have 1500 as well if you fancy.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 17 - 08:52 AM

Nice cop out there Dave.