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BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Keith A of Hertford 12 Jul 17 - 11:25 AM
Raggytash 12 Jul 17 - 11:29 AM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Jul 17 - 11:34 AM
Raggytash 12 Jul 17 - 12:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jul 17 - 12:36 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 17 - 12:59 PM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Jul 17 - 01:09 PM
Greg F. 12 Jul 17 - 01:14 PM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Jul 17 - 01:23 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 17 - 01:24 PM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Jul 17 - 01:30 PM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Jul 17 - 01:37 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jul 17 - 01:42 PM
Raggytash 12 Jul 17 - 04:46 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 17 - 05:10 PM
bobad 12 Jul 17 - 06:14 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 17 - 06:16 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Jul 17 - 01:53 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Jul 17 - 05:33 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jul 17 - 07:25 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Jul 17 - 07:38 AM
bobad 13 Jul 17 - 08:16 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Jul 17 - 12:25 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Jul 17 - 03:42 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Jul 17 - 07:30 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 17 - 05:39 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jul 17 - 06:01 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 06:04 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 06:07 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jul 17 - 06:43 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 06:52 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jul 17 - 07:26 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 07:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jul 17 - 10:25 AM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 17 - 11:11 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jul 17 - 12:04 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jul 17 - 12:56 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 17 - 01:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jul 17 - 01:30 PM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 02:01 PM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 03:53 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 04:00 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM
Raggytash 15 Jul 17 - 05:07 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 05:49 AM
Raggytash 15 Jul 17 - 06:10 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 17 - 06:26 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 11:35 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 11:45 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 17 - 12:24 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 11:25 AM

The expression appeared in an Agatha Christie novel and no-one objected at the time.
In current editions it has been changed.

Wiki,
"Commonly used in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, usage has declined since then, and use of the phrase by public figures has often been followed by criticism over the offensiveness of the term "nigger"."

It probably became unacceptable in US earlier than here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 11:29 AM

For **** sake Agatha Christie died in 1976!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 11:34 AM

"United Kingdom
In the UK in recent years, the occasional use of this phrase by public figures has normally been followed by an apology.[5][6][7]
2007, Bedfordshire County counciller Rhys Goodwin, stepped down as chairman of the environment and economic development committee: "...During a debate on heavy goods vehicle traffic in the county, he wanted to argue that a particular problem in Bedfordshire is the amount of trucks on the roads connected with quarrying. But he used the unfortunate figure of speech before sheepishly rephrasing his point.'[8]
Goodwin, who was 74 at the time, said: "There was no racist intent at all. For 50 years of my life that was common parlance, with no more a derogatory connotation than the symbol on a jar of marmalade."[9]
2008, Lord Dixon Smith, Conservative frontbencher, used the phrase in a debate on the Housing and Regeneration Bill: "Of course, the nigger in the woodpile, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has already pointed out, is that it still incorporates what I call the hangover of the new towns legislation." He immediately apologised to the House. His Lordship, also in his seventies, later commented to journalists that the phrase had been "in common parlance when I was younger".[10]
2009, Dick Denby, of Dick Denby Transport uttered this phrase on the BBC Radio 2 Jeremy Vine show (Tuesday, 1 December) during a discussion on the merits of 83 foot long HGV's. To his credit he did say that perhaps he should not have used said phrase. Jeremy Vine agreed he should not have used it and later apologised to Radio 2 listeners who might have been offended.

Ireland
In November, 2007, in relation to a debate on the Gaelic Players Association, Fine Gael Senator Paul Coughlan asked "Can the leader kick it into play and give members an update? Who is the nigger in the woodpile?". There was no call for an apology.

Australia
David Lord, an ABC News Radio presenter was forced to apologise after using the expression. On 22 February 2007, Alan Jones, another radio presenter, was heard to use the same phrase.[11] There was no call for an apology."


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 12:07 PM

Your posts are becoming ever more pathetic, do yourself a favour and stop.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 12:36 PM

They both said stupid things for which they were both suspended. The biggest difference is one is Labour and one is Tory. It comes as no surprise to see you supporting Morris, Keith. Everyone else has now seen the hypocrisy so my work is done.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 12:59 PM

And Naz Shah did NOT "advocate the transportation of Jews out of Israel." That is a plain lie, and, what's more, you've stripped the remarks she made totally out of context. It seems that there are no depths to which you won't stoop. And stop taking us for fools. We have better memories than you seem to think. And go and tell your lies to the people of Bradford West who elected her with one of the biggest majorities in the country.

"The expression appeared in an Agatha Christie novel and no-one objected at the time."

Bwahahahaha!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 01:09 PM

It comes as no surprise to see you supporting Morris, Keith.

I comes as a surprise to me!
I do not and have not defended her.

Use of the N word in any context is indefensible and I think she should be sacked and probably will be.

I would say the same for Shah had she not admitted the anti-Semitism she spouted and made her peace with the Jewish community.
I do say the same about Livingstone and others guilty of racism.

That is a plain lie,

No, it is a plain fact that she herself owned up to, so what is your opinion of it worth?
"Problem solved" she said about a graphic of Israel transposed onto USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 01:14 PM

When was that Christie novel published, Professor?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 01:23 PM

1939 Greg.
The N word was also in the title.
The last time it was reprinted in UK under the original title was 1977, and in Australia 1980.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 01:24 PM

I repeat. She did NOT call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel and no amount of fudging from you can hide the fact that you have LIED about her remarks in a most scurrilous and smearing way. The whole episode is online for all to read about, so who do you think you're trying to fool, Keith? And no Labour Party member has been found guilty of racism. You are living in a racist, bigoted fantasy world of your own. You are a total disgrace to yourself and to this forum. Don't post any more until you decide to start telling the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 01:30 PM

She did NOT call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel

She said what I said she did.
Her meaning was clear and she admitted it herself.
I have not lied.
I would take her word about her own statement over yours any day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 01:37 PM

BBC,
"Naz Shah: My words were anti-Semitic"
"Labour MP Naz Shah has said the comments which saw her suspended from the party were anti-Semitic.
Ms Shah apologised in April for online posts, including one suggesting Israel should be moved to the United States.
Labour has now reinstated the Bradford West MP, who in her first interview about the controversy blamed her "ignorance".
"I wasn't anti-Semitic, what I put out was anti-Semitic," Ms Shah told BBC Radio 4's World At One. "

"The MP said that when she looked back she thought "how stupid I was and how ignorant I was".
"The truth is that some of the stuff I have since looked at and understood, I didn't know at the time," she said.
Ms Shah said she now understood the connotations involved in the words she used.
"The language I used was anti-Semitic, it was offensive," she said. "What I did was I hurt people and the language that was the clear anti-Semitic language, which I didn't know at the time, was when I said, 'The Jews are rallying.'"

"Ms Shah said she had been on a learning journey in recent months and had received "amazing compassion" from the Jewish community.
"I didn't get anti-Semitism as racism," said Ms Shah. "I had never come across it. I think what I had was an ignorance.""
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-36802075


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 01:42 PM

Whatever, Keith. I am not going to go round in circles again. I have put my point. You have put yours. Anyone interested can decide which is nearer the truth.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 04:46 PM

My last post noting the gross errors in the professors previous post has been deleted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 05:10 PM

I'm losing patience with you here, Keith. NAZ SHAH DID NOT SUGGEST THE TRANSPORTATION OF JEWS OUT OF ISRAEL. That's what you said she said. That is not what she said, nothing like. Please do not tell any more of your lies. We are not stupid and we know what your agenda is. Get back to the source, Keith, remind yourself what she actually said and apologise to all the people on this forum who you mistakenly take for fools.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 06:14 PM

LOL, Shaw would have us believe that what Naz Shah suggested is that the country that is Israel should be dug up and transported holus-bolus to the U.S. It's noteworthy that she has recognized her anti-Semitism, too bad that Shaw isn't man enough to do the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 17 - 06:16 PM

Go to hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jul 17 - 01:53 AM

I suggest you just wind it up as well, Steve. Everyone already knows what was actually said and the have the full context and circumstance. It is only the odd few point scorers and those who cannot stand to lose that keep trying to change it to their advantage. You are right. They are wrong. Anyone important knows that. Don't give them the oxygen they need. Just my 2p

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jul 17 - 05:33 AM

Steve, you actually called me a liar for repeating what she said about her own comments.
When she said "Problem solved" about that graphic, she was clearly advocating the removal of the Jews and she admitted she did.

You are clearly incapable of recognising blatant anti-Semitism, perhaps because of your own position.

The Labour Party denounced her comments as anti-Semitic, and suspended her for them.
The Tory and Lib-Dem Parties agreed that the comments were ant-Semitic.
She herself accepted that her comments were anti-Semitic.
I was right.
You lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 17 - 07:25 AM

Dishonest, dissembling, disreputable, disgraceful. You are not in the least addressing what I accused you of doing. It's very simple. She did not call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel as you claimed she did. Either address that or just shut up about it is my advice to you. You're dead right, Dave. This idiot simply isn't worth bothering with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jul 17 - 07:38 AM

My prediction skills astound me at times

Me, 13 Jul 17 - 01:53 AM

It is only the odd few point scorers and those who cannot stand to lose that keep trying to change it to their advantage.

Keith 13 Jul 17 - 05:33 AM

I was right.
You lose.


Gnostrodamus the Gnome :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 13 Jul 17 - 08:16 AM

"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."   The Guardian




This is the message written beneath the image titled "Solution forIsrael-Palestine Conflict" posted by Shah:


Israelis are most loved by Americans. Americans will welcome Israelis with open arms into their homes.

America has plenty of land to accommodate Israel as its 51st states.

Israel can have a real safe Jewish state surrounded by friendly states.

America will no longer have to spend $3 billion tax payer money per year for Israel's defense.

The transportation costs will be less than 3 years of defence spending.

Palestinians will get their land and life back. Middle East will again be peaceful without foreign interference.

Oil prices will go down, inflation will go down, whole world will be happy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jul 17 - 12:25 PM

She did not call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel as you claimed she did.

Yes she did, with her comment on the graphic of Israel transposed to USA.
She admitted it.
The Guardian confirms that she did. (See Bobad's Guardian link.)
We were right about that, and you were wrong.
Sorry.
You lose.
(Dave, I bet you wish you did not raise the Shah issue again!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jul 17 - 03:42 PM

Dave, I bet you wish you did not raise the Shah issue again!

Sorry, you lose.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 17 - 07:30 PM

"You lose."

You've lost it. All you have to do is go back to the statements she made. It's so easy to see that you are lying in order to resurrect your sorry one-track anti-Labour agenda. I've had enough of this. Persist away, Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 05:39 AM

Dave said,
"Everyone already knows what was actually said and the have the full context and circumstance."

He was right about that at least.
Apart from your funny foursome here, everyone knows what has been reported in all the media, that she said and meant what I posted.
That is where I got it from.

You have seen it reported by the BBC and the Guardian.
There is plenty more out there. It was reported everywhere.
You have produced nothing to support your case, because there is nothing.
(Or will you produce something now? Ha ha ha!)

She did advocate the transport of Jews with her comment on the graphic of Israel transposed to USA.
She admitted it.

The Guardian confirms that she did. (See Bobad's Guardian link.)
We were right about it, and you were wrong.
Sorry.
You lose.
(Dave, I bet you do regret raising this again!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:01 AM

Now let me think: what should we have for tea tonight...


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:04 AM

"However, on 5 July 2016 her suspension was overturned and she was reinstated" (wikipedia)

Note professor: HER SUSPENSION WAS OVERTURNED AND SHE WAS REINSTATED.

Now that doesn't sound like someone has lost, does it. In fact she was returned at the 2017 election with an increased majority.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:07 AM

We had a great day yesterday at the Great Yorkshire Show, I know it's in Yorkshire but it is VERY good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:43 AM

Did it cost owt?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:52 AM

Oh aye, tha doesn't get owt for nowt in Yorkshire, although I did buy a whole Colston Bassett Stilton ..... 7.5 kilos (or 16 Lbs) for next to nowt in the cheese auction.

That should keep me going for a while.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 07:26 AM

You'll have to plough your way through that at a rate of knots, won't you? I thought Stilton needed eating young. Last night in an eatery we discovered an amazingly good Cheddar-style cheese from Wales called Hafod. Clean, strong and tangy, beautiful texture in the mouth. It's organic and made in small quantities only from unpasteurised milk. Have you tried Stichelton? It's basically Stilton made with unpasteurised milk (which is why they can't actually call it Stilton). I reckon it's superior, but only if you can get it freshly-cut. Once cut it oxidises quite quickly and isn't so good. Another amazing blue is Bath Blue. Same consideration applies. Once it's starting to darken it's nowhere near at its best any longer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 07:39 AM

It will be cut in 16 pieces of 1 lb, I'll let my mates have some and freeze the rest, It freezes well.

That said I won't be buying any for a while !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 10:25 AM

Dave, I bet you do regret raising this again!

Sorry
You lose.

Twice in one thread - Want to go for the hat trick?

Not been doing much cooking or culinary exploration lately but I have been having fun and games with the car. Ford C-Max. 162000 miles on the clock and been a belter. Trouble is it has an electronic parking brake and that has packed in. Will cost £00's to fix - More if I get a new one. So Just bought another C-Max as a stop gap until I go for something smaller when I retire. The new one is a bit older but has only done half the mileage. Trouble is, that also has an EPB but seeing as this one has only just gone I expect at least another 80,000 out of the new one :-) £1675 with a service and full MOT. Old one was a 1600. New one is 2 litre with a six speed box. Looking forward to getting it on the motorway.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 11:11 AM

Rag,
Now that doesn't sound like someone has lost, does it.

Certainly not, loser.
I admire what she did.
She went out and found the truth and made amends for what she had said out of ignorance.
You four should do the same.

Dave, in what sense have I lost.
Hard evidence has been produced proving Steve to be wrong, and us, Bobad, Teribus and I, correct.
Guardian, "Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."

Steve claimed that to be a lie, and you all backed him.
It was the truth.
You lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 12:04 PM

The only thing we're in danger of losing is the will to live as you continue with your interminable, deluded prattle. You only ever read what you want to read so there is never any factual basis for having a sensible discussion with you. It's a serious character defect of yours. Good old Naz said sorry, moved on and whacked her Tory rival into oblivion in the election, getting one of the best majorities in the land. Those Bradfordians eat mardarses like you for breakfast. You're yesterday's man. The horse is dead. Why not curl up with a nice book (history, last 30 years, living author, bought from decent bookshop, natch). And a nice piece of cheese.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 12:56 PM

Dave, in what sense have I lost.

Dave, I bet you do regret raising this again!

You lose your bet because I don't. Seemples.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 01:27 PM

Steve Shaw,
She did not call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel as you claimed she did.

The Guardian,
"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."

I believe the Guardian, and every other broadcaster and publication that agreed.

How did they all get it wrong Steve?
How do you know better than them?
Where does you information come from Steve?

From your silly, empty head.
That is why you can find nothing and no-one who agrees with you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 01:30 PM

no-one who agrees with you.

Wrong. You lose again, Keith.

Hat trick! Well done.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 02:01 PM

Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve. If I have please find my post.

That not only makes you a liar (once again) but a loser !!

Sorry guys.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 03:53 AM

no-one who agrees with you.
Wrong. You lose again, Keith.


Who are they then Dave?

Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve. If I have please find my post.

Hmmm I don't think anyone has suggested such nonsense Rag.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:00 AM

Steve Shaw,
"She did not call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel as you claimed she did."

BBC,
"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

Steve was wrong, and we were right, according to the Guardian and BBC and every other media organ that reported it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM

Who are they then Dave?

Use your imagination, Keith. I am not going to spoon feed you.

Now, as I said before, I am not going to go round in circles again. I have said my bit. You have said yours. People can make up their own minds. Unless you have anything new to add continuing is pointless.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 05:07 AM

"Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve. If I have please find my post.
Hmmm I don't think anyone has suggested such nonsense Rag"

Have you forgotten your post:

"Steve claimed that to be a lie, and you all backed him"

Your post professor 14 June at 11.11 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 05:49 AM

Rag, so no-one claimed anything "about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve."
That was just nonsense, as I said.
I did suggest that you and Dave backed Steve.
If you say you do not I will apologise.

Dave,
Who are they then Dave?
Use your imagination, Keith. I am not going to spoon feed you.


My imagination has failed on this one.
Who are these people who also deny that Shah actually said what she, the Guardian and the BBC all say she did?
Spoon away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 06:10 AM

I posted:

"Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve. If I have please find my post"

That's pretty clear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 06:26 AM

Like a spiral in a spiral
Like a wheel withing a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever spinning reel...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 11:35 AM

Rag,
"Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve.

Hmm I don't think that anyone EVER suggested you did!
Is that clear enough for you?
How do you come up with such random shit Rag?

Dave, you say you do not regret raising the Shah issue.
You should because it has made you and Steve both look ridiculous.
(Rag does it to himself!)

Steve Shaw,
"She did not call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel as you claimed she did."

BBC,
"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

Steve actually called me a liar for correctly reporting what she said!
He was wrong, and we were right, according to the Guardian and BBC and every other media organ that reported it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 11:45 AM

So let's see. "Relocating Israel..." means the same as "transporting Jews out" now, does it?

Mad as a box o' frogs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 12:24 PM

"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "
Which originated from Jewish writer, Norman Finkelstein - it was not her suggestion and the maps proveded were Finkelstein's not hers

"JEWISH AUTHOR WHOSE ISRAEL 'RELOCATION' MAP WAS SHARED BY NAZ SHAH CONDEMNS 'OBSCENE' LABOUR ANTISEMITISM ROW
Norman G Finkelstein accused politicians of making 'sick' Holocaust comparisons for political gain
During the Labour leadership contest Jeremy Corbyn said he was open-minded about voting reform and suggested the system used in Scotland might be extended to Westminster Reuters
The American political scientist who posted the diagram that triggered an antisemitism row in the Labour Party has dismissed the furore as "obscene".
Norman G Finkelstein, a Jewish author whose parents survived concentration camps during the Holocaust, said he published the map shared by Naz Shah on his blog in 2014.
Entitled "Solution for the Israel-Palestine conflict – relocate Israel to into United States", it went up on his website on 4 August, the day before the future Bradford West MP shared it on her Facebook page.
Ms Shah has been suspended from Labour and quit two of her posts, while comments made by Ken Livingstone in her defence sparked a new row culminating in an independent review into antisemitism in the party.
Mr Finkelstein said he posted the map because he found it funny, claiming that such "jokes are commonplace in the US".
In an interview published by Open Democracy, he called comparisons to policies introduced by Holocaust organiser Adolf Eichmann "sick", saying the Facebook post could not be likened to his parents' experience of Nazi transportation.
"What are they doing? Don't they have any respect for the dead?" he said.
"All these desiccated Labour apparatchiks, dragging the Nazi holocaust through the mud for the sake of their petty jostling for power and position. Have they no shame?"
Mr Finkelstein, whose work including a book called The Holocaust Industry has met with controversy, also said Mr Livingstone was "more or less accurate" with his subsequent claims about Adolf Hitler.
"Let's remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel," said the former Mayor of London, who was also suspended from the Labour Party.
"He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews."
Analysts have said that although Hitler's government explored various "transfer agreements" before the Final Solution, it did not amount to supporting Zionism because the Nazis opposed the self-determination at the heart of the movement.
Mr Finkelstein called comparisons between the Israeli government and Nazis "gratuitous and a distraction" but said politicians should not be "crucified" over the issue.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said the divisive author, who was banned from entering Israel for 10 years in 2008, does not represent "mainstream" views in the UK.
"He might think the map was funny but most Jews in this country think the very opposite," the group's communications officer, Simon Round, told The Independent.
"It might have been treated as some kind of joke but there are sensitivities there and the context is vital…it's not something that sits well."
Mr Finkelstein was also sceptical of Labour's antisemitism inquiry, arguing that finding a working definition of the term will be "impossible".
The UK-based Campaign Against Antisemitism told The Independent that being "anti-Zionist" is antisemetic.
"Zionism is the Jewish people's right to self-determination in Israel," a spokesperson said. "All people have the right to self-determination, so denying that right just to Jews is antisemitic."
The group said it was not antisemitic to oppose Israeli policies but cited "examples of hatred directed at Jewish people…disguised as political discourse".
But the Palestine Solidarity Campaign said there was a clear difference between antisemisim and anti-Zionism, calling the latter a "political ideology" that could be legitimately contested.
"While some seek to define Zionism as the right of Jewish people to self-determination, the Zionism of the Israeli state has resulted in the denial of basic human rights to Palestinians," a spokesperson said.
"To confuse – whether deliberately or otherwise – legitimate criticism of the Israeli government with antisemitism only serves to undermine the struggle against racism."
Ms Shah stood down from her post on the Home Affairs Select Committee as the row continued on Tuesday.
The committee is conducting the inquiry into antisemitism, which could see David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn among the prominent politicians giving evidence."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-row-naz-shah-israel-map-norman-finkelstein-obscene-a7012461.html

Jim Carroll


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