BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:13 PM

Steve, given my current state of man flu and the overall age of our party being slightly more than that of Methuselah I am pretty sure we will only do about 5 miles on Saturday afternoon. That sounds like a good case for the Ingleton waterfalls walk. What should I be looking out for at this time of year on limestone, beside rivers and falls and in the deeper gorges?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:08 PM

Keith. I have made my point. You think I have not. There is absolutely no point in discussing it any further with you. We will never agree.

Different morality
Different language
Different planet

Now, can we discuss sensible things like trains, flowers and bollocks without these constant interuptions please?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:03 PM

Dave,
I have made my point so there is little point in making it again.

But you have not made the point Dave. Stating it is not making it.

If it is an issue for all parties, why are there no complaints about it from those other parties as there are from Labour?
Why has the leadership and so many prominent members acknowledged that it is a serious problem for the party?

Unless you can answer that, you have no case.

If as you claim, Labour is working to address the issue, why are so many prominent people, all in a position to know, adamant that nothing has been done?

If you can only witter on about trains and flowers but not answer those basic questions, you have not made your point at all!
Are you going to?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:52 PM

Jim,
You described Irish chilen as having been brainwashed by their education system, yet you were totally unable to produce evidenvce of it,

Both you and Steve have vilified the Catholic Church for brainwashing children, and Catholic education is particularly influential in the Republic, so presumably this is an issue for both of you.

I quoted two historians who both said that the Irish school system taught a version of history that placed far more blame on Britain than was reasonable. One actually used the word "indoctrinate" which is synonymous with "brainwashing."

On this forum you have claimed the Jewish members of parliament have refused to disclose the nature of the "antisemitism" they are supposed to have been subjected to

Repetition of this lie of yours does not make it any less of a lie Jim!

I have never claimed any such nonsense, and nor would I!

I said that they made their complaints, replete with full details, to the Party leadership for them to deal with.
Those complaining of misogyny and homophobia within the Party did exactly the same.

I also quoted from a post of yours where you appear to make the claim yourself that you falsely accused me of making!

Here it is again,
Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 07:56 PM

"Can you describe the antisemitism that is taking place and the numvbers concerned Keith
No - of course you can't - the Jewish members have entered into a pact of silence to hide it.
Game over I think Keith"

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:08 PM

Dave, have you given up trying to make the case that Labour is no more anti-Semitic than other parties, and is at least doing something about it?

Well, that all depends what you mean by given doesn't it Keith. I have made my point so there is little point in making it again. And again. And again. And again. And again...

So, no I have not given up on the point but there is no mileage in discussing it any further. That is how I have time for the more pleasant things in life. Like Ribblehead, steam trains, wild flowers and holidays. You must try it sometime :-)

At least Dave admits that there is anti-Semitism in the Labour party unlike those others who deny it

No one has denied it bobad. You are fighting a straw man.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:48 PM

"There was a young lady from Bude....
Did you meet her Steve?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:12 PM

Walked on the cliffs between Widemouth Bay and Bude, then down to Bude canal. Pleasant underfoot, very mild and sunny with a lovely sky. Gorse in full regalia already, and we saw primroses, snowdrops, periwinkles, daffodils and scurvy-grass in bloom. There was a little egret in the river just by the castle. Looking like a vintage sunset coming up. Sorry to be such a hyena-like troll. Let sleeping bollocks lie!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:48 AM

"Jim, the Irish are no more "brainwashed" or "moronic" than any other ethnic group.
Keith -
You described Irish chilen as having been brainwashed by their education system, yet you were totally unable to produce evidenvce of it, claiming you had been told it by one of your mythical "historians"
You repeated it over and over again on several Irish threads
On this forum you have claimed the Jewish members of parliament have refused to disclose the nature of the "antisemitism" they are supposed to have been subjected to because of their love for their party - a 'Jewish pact of silence'
When I repeated it here, you accused me if antisemitism
You are one of the most despicably dishonest people I have ever encountered - it is little wonder you are regarded with the ridicule that you are.
"At least Dave admits that there is anti-Semitism in the Labour party"
Bobad
Nobody has ever claimed that there is no antisemitism in the Labour party - what has been claimed that it is not the major problem that is being claimed and that the accusations have been looked into and found to be groundless.
Antisemitism is the oldest form of bigotry and is to be found in every section of society
When Labour was accused of it, the accusations were taken seriously and found not to be a serious problem - end of story.
I ask again, Keith has repeated on numerous occasions that the Jewish members of Parliament have refused to descrbe the antisemistims because of their love for their party
Do you not find that antisemitic?
I have no intention of participating in this mindnumingly dishonest thread - I just wanted to set the record straight.
If you can't be honest, as far as I am concerned you can piss off
You've fucked up enough threads - the pair of you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:16 AM

Dave, have you given up trying to make the case that Labour is no more anti-Semitic than other parties....

At least Dave admits that there is anti-Semitism in the Labour party unlike those others who deny it, understandably so as they are in agreement with the anti-Semitic utterances that have emanated from Labour's anti-Semites.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 10:19 AM

Jim, the Irish are no more "brainwashed" or "moronic" than any other ethnic group.
Why this insatiable need to smear me with lies Jim?
It can only be because you are utterly incapable of challenging anything that I actually say!
It does not make you look good Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM

Rag,
You suggested Steve used the term "lying bollocks"

No I did not. He had just used the expression "bollocks" five times in one post and I referred to that, as I have repeatedly explained to you.

Dave, have you given up trying to make the case that Labour is no more anti-Semitic than other parties, and is at least doing something about it?

We see no complaints of it from other parties, and all the evidence is that the problem is still not being addressed by Labour.
We have had that stated by Tom Watson, Sadiq Khan, Baroness Royale and now Kate Dearden, so that case must be considered knocked flat.
Labour does have a particular problem with anti-Semitism, and is failing to deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 10:01 AM

" No cliff to walk along"
Here's a solution to your problem, - then you both can meet on neutral ground with Raggy and me and have a pint - but please leave Keith at home, especially know how her regards the Irish (brainwashed morons)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 09:55 AM

Pack of trolling hyenas still at it I see - SSDD.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 09:16 AM

It's even warm in Bradford although slightly overcast. No cliff to walk along but have I mentioned I am going to Ribblehead tomorrow?

:D tG

Got a bit of a bug though :-( Sore-throaty and wheezy. Hope the alcohol cure works...

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 09:08 AM

Ye gods, it's a truly gorgeous day here. Might go for a stroll on the cliffs.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:58 AM

You suggested Steve used the term "lying bollocks" he did not. You then denied you had said this ........ a lie.

Even when confronted with the truth you lie yet again.

To quote yourself " I find your lies and evasions despicable" (15.2.17 09.21am)"

I am sure I am not alone in finding your posts tedious and tiresome.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:45 AM

Very nice here this week. Daffs out everywhere, third sunshiny day in a row today, mercury low to mid-teens, lots of territorial birdsong, celandines shining bright like little gold stars. Reet grand. Even got me grass cut on Tuesday.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:36 AM

Glad to hear it Keith. You should have popped in to see Steve! You could have both talked bollocks in the pub then go for a lie down :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 04:25 AM

Rag,
Did you or did you not post these professor.

Of course I did. I referred to Steve's repeated use of the expression "bollocks" in his previous post, as I have already explained at least twice Rag!

Returning to the discussion, has no-one a comment to make about the Labour Student Leader confirming Baroness Royale's view that her report had been ignored and no action taken to stop the anti-Semitism she reported.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 04:12 AM

Dave, I have been visiting family, mostly in Cornwall, who I have mostly not seen since I became ill. It was lovely thank you.
I had intended staying in touch, but the time just evaporated.

I do not think it unreasonable to reply to points specifically put to me, especially Jim's claim that I had posted something anti-Semitic when he was the only one who had done that!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 08:21 PM

It's worth pointing out that "bollocks" does not always carry pejorative undertones. Consider the following construction:

"Cor, that Liverpool striker scored a hat-trick against that bunch of three-legged cart-horses known as Manchester United. The bloke is the absolute bollocks!"

(Depending on where you come from, "dog's dangly bits" or simply "dog's danglies" may be inserted in place of "bollocks." Not literally inserted).

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 07:48 PM

I hope you fellers are lying down while you write bollocks
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:53 PM

Nah, they're nuts. Er, which I suppose could be the same thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:45 PM

the man who invented lying bollocks then accused me of inventing lying bollocks is talking lying bollocks.

Sounds rather like the Trump-Conway-Spicer trio, dunnit?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:21 PM

He did, he did, he DID! 🤡

Now we need to define terms here. When we speak of lying bollocks we must assume that we agree that we are not referring to the disposition of the aforementioned family jewels within the frontal trouser department. In that matter we do not speak of which way the said danglies "lie," but instead of "which way one dresses." I mean, toujours la politesse, eh, chaps? Personally I dress to the left, but hey. It doesn't mean that my tackle are hard left, but that thought invites diversions that are inappropriate on this mixed forum so let's not go there. Uninvited anyway. No, we speak of the untruths routinely propagated by those usual suspects who don't actually think they are usual suspects. Ironically, the term "lying bollocks" was coined by a man who accused yours truly of coining the phrase, as Raggytash has demonstrated. What I'm trying to say is that the man who invented lying bollocks then accused me of inventing lying bollocks is talking lying bollocks.

Can you have "truthful bollocks?"

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 04:01 PM

"I did not suggest that Steve used the expression "lying bollocks."
He used the expression "bollocks" five times in just two lines of his earlier post. That is what I referred to" (15.2.17 12.44pm)

HOWEVER EARLIER YOU POSTED:

" I have shown that to be lying bollocks, to use Steve's expression, and you are unable to respond. You can only prattle on about flowers and such. I find your lies and evasions despicable" (15.2.17 09.21am)

Did you or did you not post these professor.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 02:08 PM

Oh, and 400! On a completely non-bollical note (pun intended) I just played through Constant Billy, Fanny Power, Planxty Irwin and the Jenny Lind Polka better than I have ever done before. Wonder if I can only play tunes with a y in them?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:30 PM

But bollocks can be fun. Especially talking complete bollocks in the pub. When it is utter bollocks or lying bollocks it can lean toward the disparaging. I think we initially need to define a proper meaning for both 'lying' and 'bollocks' before we can discuss anything about them either individually or collectively. We know from experience that unless the guidelines are drawn up clear and concisely in the first place different meanings will be placed on them by different people and there will, of course, only be one winner.

Now, is that bollocks, lying bollocks or alt truth? I have lost the plot and maybe the will to live...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:19 PM

Tell you what, lads. Let's have a six-month long quarrel about whether Keith meant bollocks or lying bollocks. That should be fun, and, who knows, by the end of it he might have forgotten all about "L.b..r's ant.s..it.sm pr.bl.m." Wheeee!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:07 PM

No Dave. Both you and Jim put points to me which I failed to respond to because I was away.
Neither of you withdrew your points so I responded as soon as I could.

Whether you chose to respond to anything is entirely up to you, Keith, but seeing as no one had even mentioned that you had not even posted for a few days I think it highly unlikely that anyone would have chided you.

Been anywhere of interest BTW? Hope it was pleasure rather than necessity.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 01:04 PM

A quote from the National Chair of Labour Students, yesterday.

"Labour Students, the Jewish Labour Movement and the Union of Jewish Students are coming together on Monday at Oxford University Labour Club to launch the start of a series of training sessions on tackling anti-Semitism in Labour Clubs and on campus.

With sessions planned at Bangor, Stirling, Leeds, Sheffield, Durham, KCL, Bristol and many more, we hope this will bring the positive changes the student movement urgently needs.

"It's taken over a year for the students at Oxford University Labour Club to receive a response from the Labour Party and for a decision to be made on the cases of anti-Semitism – a year in which Jewish students have had to consistently fight to define their own oppression."

Read more,
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/solidarity-with-jewish-students-its-time-for-deeds-as-well-as-words/

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 12:53 PM

Jim,
Unless he'd like to comment on Keith's antisemitic claim of a Jewish Parliamentarian's 'Pact of Silence'
Don't suppose there's much chance of that!

How could he?
It is a lie that I have ever made such a claim.

You have made such a nasty and anti-semitic claim though Jim.

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 07:56 PM
"Can you describe the antisemitism that is taking place and the numvbers concerned Keith
No - of course you can't - the Jewish members have entered into a pact of silence to hide it.
Game over I think Keith"

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 12:44 PM

Dave,
Not sure why it has been spewed forth again here really. Surely all that has had to be said has been, well, ...said.

No Dave. Both you and Jim put points to me which I failed to respond to because I was away.
Neither of you withdrew your points so I responded as soon as I could.

You have both chided me in the past when you thought I had failed to respond to points put to me by yourselves.

Rag,
Bollocks is not the same as lying bollocks is it. In this case you are talking both

Care to identify any lie or anything false (bollocks) that I have posted Rag?
No. How could you? You are just making shit up.

I did not suggest that Steve used the expression "lying bollocks."
He used the expression "bollocks" five times in just two lines of his earlier post.
That is what I referred to.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 11:59 AM

"Or better yet, Bobad - refrain from posting, period."
Unless he'd like to comment on Keith's antisemitic claim of a Jewish Parliamentarian's 'Pact of Silence'
Don't suppose there's much chance of that!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 11:49 AM

In the wide open spaces of upper Ribblesdale, Dave, I doubt that it makes much difference. Sod it. Enjoy the puffer train!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 10:27 AM

I know I shall not take or bring back any of this crap over the weekend. Not sure why it has been spewed forth again here really. Surely all that has had to be said has been, well, ...said.

Some lovely pictures of the Tornado crossing Ribblehead viaduct appearing on the Yorkshire Dales Facebook page. Which is better or worse for the local flora and fauna, Steve? Steam or Diesel?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 10:04 AM

Or better yet, Bobad - refrain from posting, period.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:59 AM

"The pack of jackals still stalking their prey"
it seems our prey is stalking us Bobad.
He chose to re-humiate himself, we were happy to leave him where he was.
Moderation - for ***** sake, we are attempting to ignore him
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:49 AM

There is a very simple solution Bobad. Refrain from posting lies and bollocks.

Simples.............

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:40 AM

The pack of jackals still stalking their prey I see and no moderation to be seen......hmm, I wonder why that is?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:26 AM

Bollocks is not the same as lying bollocks is it. In this case you are talking both.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:24 AM

""lying bollocks"
I suppose it depends which side you dress on Steve - personally, I favour the left.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:22 AM

Steve, you used the expression "bollocks" in your earlier post.
That is what I referred to.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:20 AM

Could we be in for a revolution in language here? Will "lying bollocks" replace "made-up shit?" Can it gain currency? Any suggestions for replacements for "baseless accusations" and "spittle-flecked rants?" What about a new term for "you lose?"

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:14 AM

"I have never used the expression lying bollocks in my life"

Until now Steve, until now :-)

I'll keep an eye out for Royal Fern

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:09 AM

I've never used the expression "lying bollocks" in my life. Saying that I have is just lying bollocks. And there's a first.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 09:01 AM

Jim, you accused me of making, "Probably the most antisemitic statement made of this forum."

I have shown that to be lying bollocks, to use Steve's expression, and you are unable to respond. You can only prattle on about flowers and such.
I find your lies and evasions despicable.

We have had real anti-Semitic posts from you. Would you like to be reminded?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 07:11 AM

You have a lot of royal fern out there too, Raggytash. I remember the excitement when I found just a couple of tiny sprigs of it growing out of the canal wall in Radcliffe. Then we went to Ireland and it was everywhere!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 07:06 AM

I have visited Inishmore briefly and Inishbofin more than briefly. I've been invited to Inishbofin later this year to join in a weekend long session with some of the fine musicians off the Connemara who travel over each summer.

Innisnee now has a bridge across to it as do Lettermore and Lettercallow.

Further afield I have stayed on Achill twice, a wonderful place and Belmullet both accessible now by bridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 07:06 AM

Interestingly, the word "orchid" is derived from the ancient Greek word for "testicle." The connection is that the tubers of many orchid species look very much like assemblages of the aforementioned male appendages. Oddy, "orchestra" has a completely different derivation. In ancient Greek or Roman theatres, the orchestra was a semicircular area at the front of the theatre where the chorus resided, often getting up to dance.

As we all know, many people on Mudcat talk bollocks. But now Raggytash and I are delighting, when exchanging notes on orchids, in talking literal bollocks. Very amusing! Well I think so anyway! The only people who disagree are those who talk the other kind of bollocks. They must think they have a monopoly on bollocks. Well bollocks to 'em, say I!