BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 06:23 AM

"Antisemitism is a crime in the UK. If it happened there would have been a criminal investigation followed by arrests and convictions."

Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party share the view that language or behaviour that displays hatred towards Jews is antisemitism, and is as repugnant and unacceptable as any other form of racism."

Now gnome why did the suspension of Livingstone occur?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 06:33 AM

why did the suspension of Livingstone occur?

For bringing the party into disrepute as already stated by Tezzer in his post of 08 Aug 17 - 04:13 AM.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: MikeL2
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 07:00 AM

Hi Dave

<" It is pretty good isn't it Mike. Glad it is not just me :-)">

Yes and judging by the packed audience we are not alone.

Haven't seen any of the New Sweeny. Loved the old one though.

We are just watching some repeats of Death in Paradise. Corny but easy to watch and very funny in parts.

Regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 07:27 AM

Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party share the view that language or behaviour that displays hatred towards Jews is antisemitism

Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party have adopted the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, see: IHRA Working Definition of Anti-Semitism which is considerably broader than what you are trying to disingenuously portray, see: New Anti-Semitism from which I offer this excerpt for your edification:

New antisemitism is the concept that a new form of antisemitism has developed in the late 20th and early 21st centuries, emanating simultaneously from the far left, Islamism, and the far right, and that it tends to manifest itself as opposition to Zionism and the State of Israel. The concept generally posits that much of what is purported to be criticism of Israel by various individuals and world bodies, is, in fact, tantamount to demonization, and that, together with an alleged international resurgence of attacks on Jews and Jewish symbols, and an increased acceptance of antisemitic beliefs in public discourse, such demonization represents an evolution in the appearance of antisemitic beliefs.

But do go on pretending, it serves as a perfect example of the definition.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 07:39 AM

Yes gnome, a very cute response. Pray tell what were the reasons livingstone brought the party into disrepute? Disrepute simply cannot fall out of the sky- there are reasons for such findings. Let me refresh your memory.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ken-livingstone-suspension-labour-party-10158679

Not only do you appear to share the same party as livingstone but also the same inability to accept proven facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 07:53 AM

You asked why he was suspended. I responded. The fact is he was suspended for bringing the party into disrepute.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 08:24 AM

It may be YOUR definition, Boo - and the definition of those using it for political advantage- but its not THE definition.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 09:00 AM

Dave,
Antisemitism is a crime in the UK. If it happened there would have been a criminal investigation followed by arrests and convictions.

No. There is discretion. Shah admitted making anti-Semitic comments, but could not be accused of stirring up hatred.
"Antisemitism, as such, is not a criminal offence."
https://antisemitism.uk/law/introduction/


That stupid Tory woman was not arrested for using the most racist of all words.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 09:04 AM

Sorry to disappoint you Greg but it isn't my definition but that of the 31 countries that adopted it including yours and the UK, its police force and the UK Labour party which is what is relevant in this discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 09:18 AM

From the same Blog-O-Pedia article you quoted, Boo:

"Critics of the concept argue that it conflates anti-Zionism with antisemitism, defines legitimate criticism of Israel too narrowly and demonization too broadly, trivializes the meaning of antisemitism, and exploits antisemitism in order to silence political debate.

Antony Lerman, writing in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz in September 2008, argues that the concept of a "new antisemitism" has brought about "a revolutionary change in the discourse about anti-Semitism". He writes that most contemporary discussions concerning antisemitism have become focused on issues concerning Israel and Zionism, and that the equation of anti-Zionism with antisemitism has become for many a "new orthodoxy". He adds that this redefinition has often resulted in "Jews attacking other Jews for their alleged anti-Semitic anti-Zionism". While Lerman accepts that exposing alleged Jewish antisemitism is "legitimate in principle", he adds that the growing literature in this field "exceeds all reason"; the attacks are often vitriolic, and encompass views that are not inherently anti-Zionist.

Lerman argues that this redefinition has had unfortunate repercussions. He writes that serious scholarly research into contemporary antisemitism has become "virtually non-existent", and that the subject is now most frequently studied and analyzed by "people lacking any serious expertise in the subject, whose principal aim is to excoriate Jewish critics of Israel and to promote the "anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism" equation. Lerman concludes that this redefinition has ultimately served to stifle legitimate discussion, and that it cannot create a basis on which to fight antisemitism."

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 09:25 AM

Well greg that may be all very well but your little mate seems to rather heavily outnumbered on the world stage. This renders his opinions and scribblings somewhat worthless.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 09:34 AM

but your little mate seems to rather heavily outnumbered on the world stage

Not so, Inanes. Do a little research before blindly adopting Boo's mantra.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 10:57 AM

Keith, one of the arguments given by Tezzer was that there were no arrests and no convictions. The point I am making is that that argument should be discounted for all the reasons you have just given. You have failed to grasp the point once again so there is no point in my trying to remake it.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 11:40 AM

Greg. I always do my research! You must tell me what boo's mantra is. I am only familiar with the Vedic ones.


If you wish to reject a proposition, then to be taken seriously you need to offer some sort of argument to support your position.
Otherwise you are simply frothing and we already have a past master of that affectation.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 11:58 AM

Greg. I always do my research!

Well then, Inanes, you'd best re-read the "Working Definition", this time for comprehension.

It says nothing about criticism of the State of Israel or of the Israeli government's actions being "antisemitic". In fact it clearly states the opposite.

And if you don't know what Boo's mantra is, you're the only one here that doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 01:37 PM

Dave,
The point I am making is that that argument should be discounted for all the reasons you have just given.

Yes, I grasped your "point" but is spurious.
There was no criminal offence to charge Labour's anti-Semites with, but there is for having sex with under-age children when it actually happens.

Anti-Semitism is a serious problem for the Labour Party, according to the Labour Party, but underage sex parties are not a problem for the Tories because there have not been any.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 01:48 PM

Greg,
It says nothing about criticism of the State of Israel or of the Israeli government's actions being "antisemitic".

Of course it does not, and no sensible person would claim that.
However, some statements about Israel are anti-Semitic, e.g. comaparing Israeli policies to those of the Nazis, as Jim has often done.
Here is an extract,

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. 

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

 Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.

 Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 01:58 PM

What was the phrase about the sole purpose of your threads? To keep them going endlessly?

Enough is enough.

Just leave him to it.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 02:15 PM

No worries, Dave - The Professor can rant on without any help from me.

Pretty soon Inanes will be in the same category.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 03:28 PM

4 skinned ferrets
Flour
Salt
Pepper
Butter
1 cup Sherry
1 can cream of mushroom soup
1 can cream of chicken soup
1 can cream of celery soup
1 jar sliced mushrooms

Cover whole ferrets with flour, salt and pepper. Brown in melted butter in heavy skillet over medium-high heat until nicely browned on all sides. Remove pieces from skillet and arrange in oven casserole with cover. When ferrets are browned, add 1 cup white wine or sherry to skillet. Then mix in 1 can cream of mushroom soup, 1 can cream of chicken soup, 1 can cream of celery soup, and 1 jar sliced mushrooms. Mix well and bring to boil, then pour over ferrets. Cover and bake in 325-degree oven for 1 to 1 1/2 hours, or until done and tender. Remove ferrets to serving platter and pour some of the sauce over, and serve the rest alongside. Serves 4.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 03:42 PM

Awww c'mon now Gnome don't be so coy. If you are going to quote me quote the full sentence:

"Ken Livingstone still remains suspended from the Labour Party for "bringing the Labour Party into disrepute" for his defence of Shah's remarks."

The remarks being referred to here are those that Naz Shah says herself were anti-Semitic.

So Livingstone remains suspended from the Labour Party for his defence of anti-Semitic remarks.

What a pity those in Labour's NEC can't simply call a spade a spade.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 03:52 PM

Interesting recipe Iain's, I,be never eaten ferret although my wife's family used to farm them.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 04:01 PM

Raggytash. I prefer them in a fricassee. There is a certain something about the action of chopping vermin into small pieces. It is very satisfying.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 05:03 PM

Lovely little creatures, ferrets. Wonderful characters and very intelligent. I am most surprised that someone who says he campaigns against cruelty to animals would suggest that they were vermin and provide recipes to cook them. Even as a jest it is in very poor taste. Still, I suppose that a parasitic worm that has no original thoughts of it's own and survives only off the droppings of its masters can not do any better really. I would not suggest cooking and eating it though. Could make you ill!

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 05:34 PM

Its OK, Dave, they're not halal ferrets.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 06:27 PM

Been unavoidably distracted today, mainly by Besses junction/M60/M62/M6/M5/North Devon Link Road/A39. You bloody try it. My back's killing me. So I come back here to find this benighted thread going round in the same old negative circles. It's done its time. This thread is knackered. It's an ex-thread. Hey mods, let Keith crow that he's won. No-one cares. Shut the thing down. You'll never see what I'll buy you...

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Closed. AND DON'T START ANOTHER ONE. This topic is totally exhausted. Capiche? --mudelf, speaking for many elves seconded by another elf