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BS: The Alternative Facts Thread

Stu 03 Feb 17 - 10:02 AM
Stu 03 Feb 17 - 10:07 AM
Stu 03 Feb 17 - 10:11 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 03 Feb 17 - 11:21 AM
Stu 03 Feb 17 - 11:29 AM
Acme 03 Feb 17 - 01:31 PM
Rapparee 03 Feb 17 - 08:54 PM
Donuel 04 Feb 17 - 08:09 AM
DMcG 04 Feb 17 - 09:13 AM
Mrrzy 04 Feb 17 - 09:16 AM
Donuel 04 Feb 17 - 09:31 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 17 - 10:38 AM
Mr Red 04 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM
meself 04 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM
Donuel 04 Feb 17 - 12:12 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 17 - 08:38 PM
Jack Campin 04 Feb 17 - 08:55 PM
meself 04 Feb 17 - 09:10 PM
DMcG 05 Feb 17 - 04:30 AM
Mr Red 05 Feb 17 - 06:18 AM
Stu 07 Feb 17 - 04:55 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 07 Feb 17 - 06:11 AM
Stu 07 Feb 17 - 06:21 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 Feb 17 - 07:17 AM
Teribus 07 Feb 17 - 10:03 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM
Greg F. 07 Feb 17 - 10:16 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 10:24 AM
Teribus 07 Feb 17 - 10:45 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Feb 17 - 10:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 17 - 11:03 AM
Teribus 07 Feb 17 - 11:56 AM
Greg F. 07 Feb 17 - 11:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 17 - 06:13 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 08 Feb 17 - 08:03 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Feb 17 - 08:20 AM
Greg F. 08 Feb 17 - 08:34 AM
Stu 08 Feb 17 - 08:54 AM
gillymor 08 Feb 17 - 09:02 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Feb 17 - 09:25 AM
gillymor 08 Feb 17 - 09:35 AM
Greg F. 08 Feb 17 - 09:54 AM
Stu 08 Feb 17 - 11:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 17 - 01:06 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Feb 17 - 01:52 PM
Donuel 08 Feb 17 - 02:03 PM
David Carter (UK) 08 Feb 17 - 02:38 PM
David Carter (UK) 08 Feb 17 - 02:54 PM
Greg F. 08 Feb 17 - 03:44 PM
David Carter (UK) 08 Feb 17 - 03:54 PM
FreddyHeadey 08 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM
Donuel 09 Feb 17 - 07:18 AM
Stu 09 Feb 17 - 10:55 AM
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Donuel 09 Feb 17 - 03:57 PM
Greg F. 09 Feb 17 - 06:47 PM
Teribus 10 Feb 17 - 05:07 AM
Iains 10 Feb 17 - 07:00 AM
Greg F. 10 Feb 17 - 08:45 AM
Stu 10 Feb 17 - 09:18 AM
Teribus 10 Feb 17 - 09:29 AM
Stu 10 Feb 17 - 09:55 AM
saulgoldie 10 Feb 17 - 12:51 PM
Greg F. 10 Feb 17 - 01:33 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Feb 17 - 01:58 PM
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Greg F. 10 Feb 17 - 02:33 PM
Bill D 11 Feb 17 - 11:42 AM
Greg F. 11 Feb 17 - 12:09 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 17 - 02:27 PM
Greg F. 11 Feb 17 - 05:20 PM
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Stu 13 Feb 17 - 12:35 PM
Greg F. 13 Feb 17 - 04:27 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Feb 17 - 04:39 PM
Mr Red 13 Feb 17 - 05:45 PM
Stu 14 Feb 17 - 04:36 AM
Stu 14 Feb 17 - 10:02 AM
EBarnacle 14 Feb 17 - 06:05 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 14 Feb 17 - 08:48 PM
Donuel 15 Feb 17 - 05:13 PM
Donuel 15 Feb 17 - 05:29 PM
Joe Offer 16 Feb 17 - 01:40 AM
Donuel 16 Feb 17 - 06:41 AM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 07:04 AM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 07:42 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 17 - 09:06 AM
Donuel 16 Feb 17 - 09:56 AM
Donuel 16 Feb 17 - 10:28 AM
gillymor 16 Feb 17 - 10:47 AM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 11:02 AM
Acme 16 Feb 17 - 11:07 AM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 11:10 AM
gillymor 16 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 11:43 AM
Iains 16 Feb 17 - 11:44 AM
gillymor 16 Feb 17 - 11:54 AM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 12:00 PM
Stu 16 Feb 17 - 12:08 PM
Greg F. 16 Feb 17 - 12:18 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 16 Feb 17 - 12:51 PM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 04:50 PM
Joe Offer 16 Feb 17 - 05:26 PM
Jeri 16 Feb 17 - 05:26 PM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 05:39 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 05:47 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Feb 17 - 05:57 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 17 - 06:18 PM
akenaton 16 Feb 17 - 06:34 PM
Greg F. 16 Feb 17 - 06:37 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 17 - 06:41 PM
Greg F. 16 Feb 17 - 06:55 PM
FreddyHeadey 16 Feb 17 - 07:15 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Feb 17 - 07:36 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 17 - 07:43 PM
Greg F. 16 Feb 17 - 09:12 PM
Donuel 16 Feb 17 - 10:55 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 17 - 03:47 AM
Stu 17 Feb 17 - 04:32 AM
Iains 17 Feb 17 - 05:54 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 17 - 07:51 AM
gillymor 17 Feb 17 - 07:56 AM
Iains 17 Feb 17 - 08:13 AM
akenaton 17 Feb 17 - 09:16 AM
Greg F. 17 Feb 17 - 09:24 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 17 - 09:42 AM
Stu 17 Feb 17 - 09:58 AM
gillymor 17 Feb 17 - 10:08 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM
Stu 17 Feb 17 - 10:37 AM
Teribus 17 Feb 17 - 10:41 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM
Acme 17 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 11:31 AM
Teribus 17 Feb 17 - 11:39 AM
gillymor 17 Feb 17 - 12:01 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 12:17 PM
akenaton 17 Feb 17 - 04:56 PM
Teribus 17 Feb 17 - 05:00 PM
Greg F. 17 Feb 17 - 05:31 PM
akenaton 17 Feb 17 - 05:49 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 05:49 PM
akenaton 17 Feb 17 - 06:02 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 17 - 06:10 PM
Teribus 18 Feb 17 - 02:15 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 17 - 03:47 AM
Teribus 18 Feb 17 - 04:26 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 17 - 05:05 AM
DMcG 18 Feb 17 - 05:41 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Feb 17 - 06:15 AM
akenaton 18 Feb 17 - 06:23 AM
DMcG 18 Feb 17 - 06:32 AM
gillymor 18 Feb 17 - 06:40 AM
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Jim Carroll 18 Feb 17 - 08:09 AM
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Subject: BS: The Alternative Truths Thread
From: Stu
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 10:02 AM

I thought it might be an idea for us to record the "Alternative Truths" that is coming out of the Trump camp as in years to come this might make for interesting reading. Seeing as the many eyes of Catters are better than just the one pair of eyes, here's the thread. Post links where possible for future researchers to follow.

Finally, if you want to quibble about the veracity of these truths all well and good, just go and do it on a dedicated thread please. We're recording them for posterity.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Truths Thread
From: Stu
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 10:07 AM

To get the ball rolling, here's Kellyanne Conway (who uttered the phrase "alternative truths") justifying Trump's immigrant ban using the example of a massacre she made up. Link: Washington Post

Kellyanne Conway cites 'Bowling Green massacre' that never happened


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Truths Thread
From: Stu
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 10:11 AM

Ah, it's "alternative facts" not "alternative truths". If a Mudelf would change the title I'd be grateful.

Here's the interview itself: Kellyanne Conway: "He offered alternative facts"

Link: The Guardian video of NBC interview.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Truths Thread
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 11:21 AM

In a blast from the past reminiscent of The Gulf of Tonkin, "White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer asserted at Thursday's press briefing that Iran had attacked a U.S. naval vessel..."

Here's the story.

(This Spicer person must be the most inept Press Secretary ever. He's tasked with doling out information, yet he seems to always be the least informed person in the room.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Truths Thread
From: Stu
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 11:29 AM

Here's the inauguration story with analysis. Link: USA Today

Fact Check: The controversy over Trump's inauguration crowd size


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Acme
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 01:31 PM

This site will help you keep track of the daily antics of the current administration:

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 08:54 PM

We used to provide alternate facts to my mother:

HE did it!

Paint? We didn't paint anything.

It looks like mine, but it's not.

Of course that's the truth!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 08:09 AM

About 75% of what comes from Tromp is either wrong, spin or a lie but that is from my perspective. So much is BS reporters never seem to catch even half of the falsehoods.

By interjecting lies into a stream of disjointed statements they are mostly overlooked. They do not need to be official alt facts.

For example he has interjected the statement that " no one holds Government with more disdain than Barak Obama "

No one challenged the statement even though Barak was about the art of the possible.

I know the hypnosis in propaganda, you know all the alternative facts and the base believes him and forgives Trump being Tromp.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 09:13 AM

It seems Federal Judge James Roberts os a "so-called judge".

This post is from a so-called DMcG


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 09:16 AM

Who was it said trees cause pollution?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 09:31 AM

a Speechwriter for Ronald Reagan pointed out that Pine trees exude Turpentine like fumes at night.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 10:38 AM

I laughed when I heard that "so-called judge" comment, then quickly realised that it was bloody unfunny. It was an attack on the rule of law just as bad as the Daily Mail's "enemies of the people" attack on our high court judges when they found against Theresa May's effort to circumvent the sovereignty of parliament. Be vigilant, yanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM

If Tromp feels comfortable gunning for the media, he thinks he has other outlets for his messages.

His problemo is that: Amazon, Apple, Micro$oft and Google are all revealing their willingness to stand up to Twitler. Farcbook has not revealed its hand, or has it? I keep getting National Parks type posts that show no other author. And I haven't friended them. Now how does that happen? Think it through..............


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: meself
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM

I'm surprised that every time Spicer justifies some outrage by saying that it's what Trump campaigned on, and what 'the American people' elected him to do, that some reporter doesn't point out that more people voted against than for him. They don't, though .....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 12:12 PM

Isn't Spicer an arrogant, insulant, whiney, not so little brat?
I would wait in line to slap his face, which is something I haven't done since I was 10.

I just got back from shopping where a fight broke out in a parking lot between a white haired bigot who told 5 black folks to get out of the country. Fists yelling thrown cans...

The police let the white guy go on self defense grounds. Not so the black women.

This sentiment goes down to the kids. At soccer matches if one team has more Spanish speaking kids the other team chants USA USA

We are in for more Fergusons.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 08:38 PM

"I'm surprised that every time Spicer justifies some outrage by saying that it's what Trump campaigned on, and what 'the American people' elected him to do, that some reporter doesn't point out that more people voted against than for him. They don't, though ...."

Agreed. And I'm also surprised when the fact that he's carrying out the things he said he would is regarded as in some way virtuous. The things he said he'd do were all bloody awful. If I promised to cut off the bollocks of all male prisoners, pour encourager les autres, and carried it out, you wouldn't exactly be praising me, would you?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 08:55 PM

Are there any songs about the Bowling Green Massacre yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: meself
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 09:10 PM

The horriblest sight you never seen,
The truth massacred at Bowling Green.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 04:30 AM

I hadnt expected to get to such a critical point so soon, but Trump has appealed the judge's decision and the appeal has been denied. So now Trump has to accept his position has limitations, which is not really in his nature, or take on the whole legal system. Watch this space ...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Feb 17 - 06:18 AM

I somehow think it is ironic that JFK had quite a time with Maralyn Monre and even Marlene Dietrich et al apparently without us knowing properly. But Twitler is probably being watched on this subject rather more closely.

A tactic I am sure he thinks is distracting the media from the fact that he is doing it (actually) to the country (or should that be countries?).

Just saying.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 04:55 AM

I give up on this thread. There's no way we can keep up with the amount of lies coming out of trump and his supporters. Unreported massacres in Europe? Fuck off.

If you believe that shit, you get what you deserve. Of course, other people who don't deserve it will get it too.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 06:11 AM

San Bernardino, Orlando, Paris, Nice. These are among the list of 78 unreported and under-reported terrorist incidents submitted by the Trump administration. Incidents that got so much coverage I only had to mention the cities' names and you knew exactly what I was talking about. Yet they were "under-reported"....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 06:21 AM

The full list is here: The full list of Trump's 'under-reported' terror attacks and how they were reported.

Note the spelling is the White House's original. Amazing.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 07:17 AM

Good grief. The Martin Place (Sydney) siege was live on UK TV! How is that "under reported".


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:03 AM

"I'm also surprised when the fact that he's [President Trump] carrying out the things he said he would is regarded as in some way virtuous. The things he said he'd do were all bloody awful. [In your opinion but obviously not to the voters in far more States than voted for Clinton] If I promised to cut off the bollocks of all male prisoners, pour encourager les autres, and carried it out, you wouldn't exactly be praising me, would you?" - idiotic contribution by Steve Shaw

Only thing is Shaw people did vote for Trump - Nobody in their right mind would ever vote you into any significant office (Even to clean it). Stick to wildflowers, places you've been, glasses of wine that you have enjoyed, meals you've cooked - I suspect that you do know something about those.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM

Well it is an alternative facts thread I suppose. 😂😂😂


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:16 AM

"The people" that voted for Twitler were an ignorant or gullible or hypocritical(in the case of the "Christian"[sic] vote) lot or all three.
And theey were a minority of voters.

"The People" also voted for Hitler, Tailgunner Joe
McCarthy, Nixon, Pitchfork Ben Tillman, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:24 AM

They voted for Barabbas too!

"And they were a minority of voters." And that isn't an alternative fact!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:45 AM

Greg F. - 07 Feb 17 - 10:16 AM

"The people" that voted for Twitler were an ignorant or gullible or hypocritical(in the case of the "Christian"[sic] vote) lot or all three.
And theey were a minority of voters."


Now that first sentence of yours there Greg F was exactly why Donald Trump won the 2016 Presidential Election - "The people" in sufficient numbers throughout the individual states were pig sick of people such as yourself - they voted for change - after two terms of Obama the American electorate found out that "Yes we can" was in actual fact "Well no we can't" under the usual two step.

As to popular vote? That is not the system and it does not alter the fact that Donald Trump won the popular vote in more individual states than Hilary Clinton.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 10:54 AM

Denial! 😂


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:03 AM

I didn't vote for Barabbas. I wanted them to welease Woger.

You really don't have to go much further than Mudcat to see some alternative facts do you?

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:56 AM

That's a river in Africa isn't it Shaw?

Deny This


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 11:58 AM

Now that first sentence of yours there Greg F was exactly why Donald Trump won the 2016 Presidential Election

For once we're in agreement, Mr. T! They absolutely WERE ignorant or gullible or hypocritical(in the case of the "Christian"[sic] vote) lot or all three! In addition, I suppose, they could have simply been idiots.

Ta!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 06:13 AM

Just to let our friends across the Atlantic know that they are not alone. The UK has had more than its share of alternative facts

Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public

Well, at least he has come clean now. Do you think Trumpton ever will?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 08:03 AM

Note the spelling is the White House's original. Amazing.

Yes, that's because spell-check software is not allowed on White House computers. Poor spelling is another way to piss off left-wing libtards, who are the only people who think spelling is important.

It's also a way of handicapping underlings who may be able to actually construct real sentences. It wouldn't do for them to show up their boss, who can't put together a simple declarative sentence without wandering off into some non-grammatical alternate universe. A few spelling errors helps level the playing field.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 08:20 AM

"who are the only people who think spelling is important."
Really?
Maybe Trump's next step should be to set his mob burning down the schools
The greatest asset of any society is it's literacy - it helps us communicate and express ourselves to others articulately.
I'm rather proud to learn it's a phenomenon of The Left
I do like the use of the term "underlings" - an aspect ot Trumps rule we are yet to discover, it would appear
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 08:34 AM

Ya gots to remember: Pres. Hump "love[s] the poorly educated" - actual quote!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 08:54 AM

"who are the only people who think spelling is important"

Nope.

"libtard?" Thanks mate.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 09:02 AM

Jim:"Maybe Trump's next step should be to set his mob burning down the schools"

They now have the head torch bearer of that mob in place. Herr Trump managed, just barely, to get one of the least qualified cabinet appointees in recent memory confirmed yesterday in Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education.
It's not all bad news for the public schools though, Ms. DeVos wants to allow children to carry firearms to school for protection against Grizzly bears.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 09:25 AM

"They now have the head torch bearer of that mob in place."
I read that
We're waiting to have Boris Johnson appointed Secretary for Education!!
Your gun laws never cease to impress me.
We have one of your countrywomen - journalist, Mary Ellen Synon, living in the next county, who, following the deliberate execution of a Traveller by an irate farmer (who got off scott free), declared that it was the patriotic duty of all rural Irish families to arm themselves as a protection from trespassers.
Ms Synon distinguished herself some years earlier by describing our Paralympics as "perverse and grotesque".
Any chance you'll take her back - I'm sure she'll find a place in New America
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 09:35 AM

Keep her, Jim, we are overloaded with racist creeps here who have crawled out from under their rocks with the ascension of Herr Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 09:54 AM

More on Ms. DeVos- she doesn't have to burn 'em down, Jim - sust starve 'em to death.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/opinion/betsy-devos-teaches-the-value-of-ignorance.html

Betsy DeVos Teaches the Value of Ignorance

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD   FEB. 7, 2017


"Government really sucks." This belief, expressed by the just-confirmed education secretary, Betsy DeVos, in a 2015 speech to educators, may be the only qualification she needed for President Trump.

Ms. DeVos is the perfect cabinet member for a president determined to appoint officials eager to destroy the agencies they run and weigh the fate of policies and programs based on ideological considerations.

She has never run, taught in, attended or sent a child to an American public school, and her confirmation hearings laid bare her ignorance of education policy and scorn for public education itself.

She indicated that she was skeptical of Education Department policies to prevent fraud by for-profit colleges — a position favored, no doubt, by Mr. Trump, who just settled a fraud case against his so-called Trump University for $25 million.

-continued-


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 11:04 AM

A few times in the past I've seen these comments about spelling and how the people that pull others up on it are snivelling pedants, nit-pickers or, now, "left-wing libtards". This is why those people are wrong.

Spelling is about language, and language is culture. Our cultures, from local to national to global are defined by our languages, of which there are about 6,900 currently spoken in the world, with some on the edge of extinction. Loose your language and you loose your culture, end of. Similarly, how we care and use our languages reflects how we care for our cultures, how we propagate and maintain the core aspects of culture in the myriad of ways we use language; naming, describing, remembering, creating and so on. Language is precious, unique and worth defending whilst you have the life in you to form a thought or utter a word.

We all make mistakes, and my spelling is bloody awful. However, when our greatest institutions cannot even be bothered to get the spelling correct on media being distributed around the world, then there is a real problem. Because they don't care about the simplest of things about the language, and they don't give a toss about their culture. Let it go, and the cultures we purport to care for so much is on the slide. More.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 01:06 PM

Maybe the bad spelling is intentional, Stu. Perhaps we will see more of it leading to Newspeak? :-(

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 01:52 PM

Resorting to typos are a sign that whoever you are arguing with is running out of arguments - I have a regular adversary who resorts to that particular one.
Take it as a sign you are making headway.
Of course spelling is important, but I hear that texting in that mindless non-language has probably destroyed it utterly for the next generation and it has floated down the same channel as Estuary English with its ugly glottal stops and missing word endings.
Lord Reith must be clawing his way out of his grave
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 02:03 PM

Stu, there are hundreds of alt facts , actions and sentiments.
You have valuable work cut out for posterity's sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 02:38 PM

Jim, you do realise that the Minister of State for Universities and Science is in fact Boris Johnson's little brother.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 02:54 PM

Re: Trump's list of "under-reported" terrorist incidents, just realised that the murder of Jo Cox isn't on there. Maybe because it was so under-reported that Trump hadn't heard of it, or maybe because it doesn't fit with a certain narrative.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 03:44 PM

Nor were any of the home-grown U.S. "non-Muslim" terrorist incidents.....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 03:54 PM

So it is a very, very selective list.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM


Greg F. - PM
Date: 08 Feb 17 -
Nor were any of the home-grown U.S. "non-Muslim" terrorist incidents.....


Twice as many(48) killed by non Muslims

(I can't copy paste from this)
more
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 07:18 AM

A list of alt facts is too polite. A list of outright lies is ironically being called for by the people, judiciary, NSA, CIA and the media.

This is desperately needed. Some of he lies were born from stupidity and some are intentional with an agenda. They are both dangerous and require an antitoxin.

The list can not be a series of websites that will disappear one day.
Assembling such a list requires attribution of course but when it comes to leaks the proof is challenging.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 10:55 AM

Today old fartface is whining about how is daughter is being treated by some company, and used the POTUS account to retweet his ravings on the subject. Such a classy act.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 11:05 AM

Meanwhile, the Tribes in North Dakota are to be treated as they always have by white America, the US military and the US government and are now going to have the pipeline they don't want built on land stolen from them in 1868 that also contains Sioux burial sites. It will affect their immediate environment including their water.

Trump of course, couldn't give a flying fuck for the Tribes, continuing a long tradition of white men treating the people who actually live a land they've arrived with contempt. The irony is of course people like Trump and his followers are so far less sophisticated culturally, philosophically and environmentally than the people he oppresses it's beyond words.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 03:57 PM

you want alt facts/ OK

Trump issues Presidential order that all citizens must wear Trump Inc official outfits to indicate loyalty. Those who betray this order are subject to deportation to Bangladesh Trump clothing factories.

(don't worry there are official jeans and Trump shirts.)

For the little ones there are ties that reach the floor, so cute.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 06:47 PM

True enough, Donuel- Kellyanne Conway is running commercials for Ivanka's made-in-China crap from the White House!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 05:07 AM

Stu - 09 Feb 17 - 11:05 AM

"Meanwhile, the Tribes in North Dakota are to be treated as they always have by white America, the US military and the US government and are now going to have the pipeline they don't want built on land stolen from them in 1868 that also contains Sioux burial sites. It will affect their immediate environment including their water."


Taking into account that the requirement for this pipeline and the decision to go ahead with it started in 2014, i.e. on Barack Obama's watch (The pipeline is 87% complete at the moment), it is a bit rich to lay all of this off on Donald Trump. Iowa State requirement was that those building the pipeline had to get voluntary "easements" (Access to construct, maintain, repair) covering 75% of the route, they got 82% voluntary agreements and have negotiated further "easement" agreements covering 99% of the route. The USACE were asked to produce an Environmental Impact Statement of river crossings and portions of the project related to specific permits, and issued a finding of no significant impact.

Tell me Stu how will this pipeline affect the immediate environment and water? The UK and Europe are crisscrossed with literally hundreds of pipelines carrying oil and gas what has been their effect on our immediate environment and water?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:00 AM

Crude has to move around America.With the number of refineries decreasing, and capacity concentrating in fewer places, crude usually has to be moved some distance. There are four ways to move it over long distances: by pipeline, by boat, by truck, or by rail. Each has its unique problems and none is without harm.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/04/26/pick-your-poison-for-crude-pipeline-rail-truck-or-boat/#257f69805777


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 08:45 AM

Indeed. Ever since Hump's election crude HAS been moving around America.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:18 AM

"Tell me Stu how will this pipeline affect the immediate environment and water?"

No I won't, because that's a distraction from the point of my post, which you know full well T. I used the case of the Keystone line as an example of Trump's intentions and attitude, not to start a debate on the transport of crude across the states.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:29 AM

Trump has been in office for just over 100 days. The Keystone pipeline project has been ongoing for almost three years and is 87% complete - As you seem awfully reluctant to answer questions on points that you include in your attempts to show Trump in as poor a light as possible - Can you explain why Barack Obama gets a free pass on almost three years minus 100 days, yet the whole thing can be dumped on a man who has just been elected.

By the way you do not have to answer my previous question - There is no immediate threat to the environment or to any water course or source.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 09:55 AM

Whether Obama started it or not is irrelevant in this context, which is how Trump is dealing with the construction of the pipeline. As for environmental impact, getting into a circular, endless argument with you is sooooo tempting, but utterly pointless of course.

"your attempts to show Trump in as poor a light as possible"

Just trying to shed a little light into the shallow but impenetrably dark abyss that is the orange one's mind to try to understand motivation in this case.

But we know the motivation. Sub-President Trump is an uber-capitalist and climate denier, although unlike many climate/science deniers I think his reasons for denial are different... he's just not a very thoughtful individual and I suspect he could be persuaded if you pry the bile volcano that is President Bannon from his earlobe for a few moments.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: saulgoldie
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 12:51 PM

Jack, There are at least two songs that I found on Youtube. And...there is a book! Perhaps it will be made into a movie? And a board game, maybe? Oh the possibilities!

Would anyone recognize the reference: "MXYZPTLK"??

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 01:33 PM

Can you explain why Barack Obama gets a free pass on almost three years minus 100 days...

Sure can! He doesn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 01:58 PM

"Trump has been in office for just over 100 days."

Trump has been in office for 22 days. Still, this is an alternative facts thread. I'm the Queen of Sheba and there are fairies at the bottom of my garden. There, two more alternative facts. Any more for any more?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 02:31 PM

There AREN'T fairies at the bottom of your garden? BUMMER!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 02:33 PM

Trump has been in office for 22 days.

Curious, that. It already seems like years.....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 11:42 AM

Fairies live at the TOPS of gardens... everyone knows that! That's so they can keep track of the trolls who live at the bottom....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 12:09 PM

OK, Bill - I stand corrected.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 02:27 PM

Just when the most important acts of treason regarding removal of Russian sanctions are coming to light, severe Trump fatigue is setting in. His defense of fake news and Flynn's failing memory may be enough for the Attorney General Jeffery Beauregard 'Stonewall" Sessions to allow special dispensation to Donald the John Trump.

The fake news media are the enemy incapable of reviewing The administration, The courts are the enemy who may not review special presidential orders and the legislature will either hang together or separately.

This means there is the same chance he will get away with it as he had of winning the election.

Poor Putin, it looks like his helpful idiot was not helpful and too much the idiot.


We know the motive, we know the actors, we know the weapons but we do not know how the pie was to be split.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 05:20 PM

That's more appropriately Nathan Bedford Sessions, Donuel. Stonewall was a religious nutter.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 17 - 08:07 PM

Thanks Greg, I was just going for alliteration.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 10:48 AM

All of Tromp's most fantastic lie come from Alex Jones Infowars and Bannon's Brietbart.

I should write How To Be President for DUMMIES.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 12:35 PM

Wow. Intelligence is being withheld from the President of the USA because his own intelligence services don't trust him. From The Independent (can't make the clicky work):

"An NSA official told the New York Observer it was holding back some of the "good stuff" from the White House, while one Pentagon worker said: "There's not much the Russians don't know at this point. Since January 20, we've assumed that the Kremlin has ears inside the [situation room]."


Lumee.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 04:27 PM

Well as Rocky the Flying Squirrel was wont to remind us: military intelligence is a contradiction in terms".

Apparently, now, Presidential intelligence is worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 04:39 PM

"Mummy! Mummy! When I grow up I want to be President!"


"Don't be silly, dear, you can't do both!"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Feb 17 - 05:45 PM

LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 04:36 AM

Oh dear. So now Mike Flynn is on his bike because he was chatting up the Russians and then lied in an attempt to cover it up.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 10:02 AM

Meanwhile, on this side of the puddle the execrable Paul Nuttalls of the UKIPS turns out to have lied about loosing "close personal friends" at the Hillsborough disaster, which is pretty low by any account.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 06:05 PM

The Tin hat brigade is out in force. A friend who is a Trump bekiver sent me this.


http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2017/02/clif-high-fukushima-flat-earth-hollow-moon-space-ships-antartica-fallen-angels-gia

By the way, I believe it was James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of the interior, who famously accused trees of polluting. He also said "If you've seen one tree, you've seen the all."


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Feb 17 - 08:48 PM

Mike Flynn is just the first wheel to fall off of Trump's clown car.

Riddle me this: Flynn, like him or not, had the qualifications and experience to do the job he was chosen for. He knew how things were supposed to be done, and he did otherwise. He knew the rules, and he ignored them.

If he could screw up so badly, how do Trump's inexperienced, amateur-hour appointees have any hope of staying out of very hot water. None of them seem to have any interest in learning from more experienced people in their fields. They don't seem to know how to ask any of the lawyers on the White House legal staff if what they're planning on doing or saying passes legal muster. Hell, they don't even know how to use the spell-check software on their computers. (Hint: look for words underlined in red!)

So, who's taking bets on who the next wheel to fall off of Trump's clown car is going to be?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:13 PM

I dunno but this just in

If you are certified crazy, not just certifiable, but full goose bonkers nuts, you may once again buy a shiny new gun.

Senate Republicans just voted to let you and their base to buy guns without mental disability restrictions.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:29 PM

Paul Manafort was already thrown from the clown car.
Another scape goat could be Miller but we all know where the buck stops.
Trumps son in-law is in it up to his lips but would be the last to fall off.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:40 AM

To hell with all those Alternative Facts. The truth is, comedy is really rich in this Age of Trump. Take a look at "Conway" from Saturday Night Live: And there's more from Vladimir Putin: Don't forget Press Secretary Sean Spicer: And of course, there's The Donald: ...and the "Grab The P*ssy" episode:


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:41 AM

That's funny national medicine Joe
We are lucky to have satire alive and well. SA, Iran and Egypt arrest their comics.

We are about to enter the paranoid Stalin Trump age as Donald/Bannon starts the purge of intelligence agencies that he believes leaked his Russian indiscretions. Here comes 'yur fired' catch phrase again.

Trump wants to fire/arrest the 'policemen'. He can.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:04 AM

Gosh Don, I never ever thought I would hear YOU standing up for the discredited intelligence agencies........how soon we forget :0(


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:42 AM

Ya can't get into bed with the the devil ONE time


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 09:06 AM

We are not "lucky" to have our satire alive and well. It's our inviolable right and it's a rock-solid essential in any country calling itself a democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 09:56 AM

Ake, dictators makes strange bed fellows of us all.
I would not have believed that John McCain stands between our democratically elected Republic and a white Nationalist cadre with cowardly Republicans risking treason to keep their seat.

Of course McCain has a spine now that he has nothing to lose since he isn't running again.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 10:28 AM

In America the program description for The Simpsons is "A subversive cartoon show". Do you get Archer or South Park in the UK?
Despite our 1st amendment we still have waves of censorship.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 10:47 AM

Hair Farce One has provided us with the latest (as far as I know) Alternative Fact. He blamed "fake news" for Flynn's departure when he was the one who claimed credit for firing him on the basis of, we must conclude, "fake news". His "review" of intelligence agencies is an obvious diversion, he's got to be scared about what's going to come out in the Flynn investigation, regarding not just Flynn's phone call and subsequent lies about it but his own organization's involvement with the Russian government. I have no doubt he was encouraging Flynn to reassure his Russian buddies in the wake of the Obama-imposed sanctions, a violation of the Logan Act. The old flimflam man has taken on a scam that's way beyond his abilities.

He's still running in campaign mode where all he had to do was bamboozle white rednecks and some extreme conservatives, now he's got to deal with the majority of the electorate, congress, the judiciary and the rest of the government.

As far as the next to exit the clown car goes, when Trump's numbers really begin to slide it'll be Bannon because he doesn't need a racist bomb-thrower at this stage as he's already won the electoral college and perhaps preceding him will be Priebus as this administration is an unholy mess. He needs a respected, experienced political operative as chief of staff to clean things up but what decent human being with those qualifications would have any thing to do with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:02 AM

I know you all hate Donal- John due to his stance on social issues, but really and truly do ANY of you trust the US Intelligence Services? Do you really believe them?   After Bush and Iraq? after Clinton and Libya? After "weapons of mass destruction"?

For f**k sake these people made you complicit in three wars...and you believe what they say about a sworn enemy.
Détente between Russia an the US is not just mutually beneficial.....its an absolute necessity


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Acme
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:07 AM

There is no comparison between Bush and the immoral/illegal Iraq war and the events that happened at Bengazi. But there is no convincing you of that, no matter how many facts are put forward. The fact that Trump now wants to put a billionaire buddy of Bannon's in an oversight position should terrify most Americans. What it does to you is your own business, but I suspect many in the UK dread that possible scenario.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:10 AM

"He's still running in campaign mode where all he had to do was bamboozle white rednecks and some extreme conservatives"

Howzatt for an alternative fact :0)

Not to mention racist...aren't there any black rednecks, I'm sure I saw quite a few at his rallies.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM

Maybe you need to adjust the contrast on your TV, ake, still though it it's good to get the so called "socialist" viewpoint.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:43 AM

The "rednecks" you talk about and who affected the result were almost all working class Americans..... EX-Democrats I believe?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:44 AM

Those that did not support Trump must find the continuing attempts to tear down his administration quite amusing.
But if these attempts are put in place so swiftly the question must be asked: Who or what are the organisations orchestrating these non stop attempts.
No matter how much you may disagree with how the vote worked out, the fact remains that under US law Trump won the election.
What is the health of a democracy when internal forces are trying to subvert it?
If these attempts succeed democracy will have been usurped by deep state and NGOs and ever after the Presidency will a false construct inhabited by a puppet. Is that really the America you want?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 11:54 AM

Here's the O.P. of this thread:

"I thought it might be an idea for us to record the "Alternative Truths" that is coming out of the Trump camp as in years to come this might make for interesting reading. Seeing as the many eyes of Catters are better than just the one pair of eyes, here's the thread. Post links where possible for future researchers to follow.

Finally, if you want to quibble about the veracity of these truths all well and good, just go and do it on a dedicated thread please. We're recording them for posterity."

So out of deference to the originator of this thread, grow a pair and start your own thread defending Twitler. (like that'll happen)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:00 PM

Acme, I'm not talking about Benghazi, I'm talking about US intervention to remove Gaddafi....Clinton and the security services pushed President Obama into that quagmire.

If these Intelligence Services had been for real they would have realised what the removal of Gaddafi would mean.

I knew and I'm only a "Scottish Trump apologist, who knows F all about US politics"..... In fact I think everyone should just pretend that I'm not here! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:08 PM

"What is the health of a democracy when internal forces are trying to subvert it?"

Democracy is always being subverted, look at the lobbying of our own MPs. When I wrote to my MP asking how I should go about lobbying him he sent a standard reply (he is a tory yes-man though) and so I'm guessing us little people don't get to lobby. Go to Bilderberg though and you're subverting democracy with the best of them, as capitalism subverts democracy all the time but few give a shit about that meeting of the actual global elite. The Lords is packed with party donors; Cameron shoehorned in a whole slew of the buggers.

In the US something odd is going on, but whereas Trump et al have been toadying up to a country with thousands of nukes pointed towards them (Putin has his eye on the oil pipeline running through the Ukraine), it was the FBI who sat on the knowledge Trump was possibly committing treason whilst scuppering Clinton's campaign because she used a private email server, which is obviously worse than getting your yah-yahs at Russian expense watching the Golden Shower Show.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:18 PM

No matter how much you may disagree with how the vote worked out, the fact remains that under US law Trump won the election.

Nobody is arguing that fact, old son. But that fact doesn't negate the fact that the deranged toddler in the White House is a proven pathological liar, a sexual predator, an egomaniac (if not just a maniac, period) a misogynist, a racist, a proponent of using nuclear weapons and a general all-around disgusting and dangerous piece of shit. And it Twitler and his cadre that are in the process of subverting democracy and replacing it with oligarchy of plutocrats.

THAT'S what intelligent people are rightfully concerned and upset about.

I'm only a "Scottish Trump apologist, who knows F all about US politics"

Glad you finally realized that, Ake.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:51 PM

From House Intelligence Chair Devin Nunes regarding a possible Flynn investigation:

"The big problem I see here is that you have an American citizen who had his phone calls recorded."

Well, the big problem I see here is that chairman of the House Intelligence Committee does not know that the telephone conversations of foreign agents are routinely recorded. It wasn't Flynn's calls that were recorded, but those of the Russian to whom he was talking.

One would think the former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency would know that calls to or from the Russian Embassy would be recorded. Or maybe he did know and thought the old rules didn't apply anymore since Trump won. That seems to be the prevailing attitude among Trumpists.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 04:50 PM

Greg, I think the real reason you and the others are so pissed is because he ain't YOUR piece of shit.

Most politicians are pieces of shit, but this one seems to frighten the shit out of the establishment........and that is where the 24ct shit resides.

You want change to the situation in America, well you wont get it via the DEMs or the Pubs Give the guy a chance and he will put the heart back into the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:26 PM

Yes, Ake, I trust the U.S. intelligence services. Yes, there will be those who will dig up "alternative facts" and conspiracy theories but I think there is an overwhelming culture of integrity in the U.S. intelligence services - a drive to provide accurate information even if it isn't what the politicians want to hear (and these agencies are going to be very unpopular with the current administration). The political appointees at the tops of agencies can be swayed, but rank-and-file government workers in general remain professional and honest.
I worked for the Army Security Agency (part of NSA) for three years, and then spent 30 years in on-and-off contact with security agencies. They're good folks.
But the Trump Administration distorts the truth at every turn of the path, even when there's no reason for distortion.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:26 PM

So says the can't-vote, doesn't-have-to-live-with-the-results rabid "so called" conservative Scot. In an alternate universe, what he has to say may matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:39 PM

You are better placed than many to give your opinion Joe and you may well be correct, but these agencies have been demonised by the left since the days of Joe McCarthy, culminating in the Iraq and Libyan fiascos. In Fact, had the security services had their way Assad would have been displaced, Syria under the heel of ISIS and in all probability the West involved in a dangerous stand off with Russia.
Why the change in emphasis now?.....a conspiracy to remove the president?

These agencies MIGHT not be working against the democratic will of the people but they certainly do not look fit for purpose


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM

Please watch the press conference that Trump held this evening. He attacked the judiciary, he attacked the media big-time (which are overwhelmingly right-wing!) and he lied in his teeth about Russia. Along with Brexit, he is the biggest threat to democracy in the world today.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:47 PM

Jeri....nothing that anyone says here "matters", it is all about opinions, that is what this section of Mudcat is designed for, despite attempts to silence unpopular views.

My views generate a lot of traffic on this forum, some threads ran into many thousands of posts, if we were all identical in our opinions this or any other debating forum would fold in weeks.

Try to get over yourselves, debate is life.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 05:57 PM

Quote of the Year
Today's press conference should have taken place in the presence of a therapist, not the press
Republican politician
First time a president has ever been booed at a Press conference
The man is insane
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:18 PM

He's insane and he's bloody deadly.

So some threads that you instigated ran to "many thousands of posts." Well, to me "many thousands" means, er, at least five or six thousand. I don't regard anything fewer than five to be "many," and even that may be me being a little conservative. Some may regard "many" to be, say, ten or more. So tell me please which threads you're referring to. I don't remember any thread instigated by you running to many thousands of posts. Of course, it could be that my memory is defective. So, apprise me, please. Which threads?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:34 PM

You just love misrepresentation don't you Steve?

I really cant stand a cheat, you and Jim are a matching pair.
Where did I ever say threads INSTIGATED by me?
What would it matter who instigated the thread it is the views of the participants which are important.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:37 PM

If ever validation of this statement were needed:

I'm only a "Scottish Trump apologist, who knows F all about US politics"

Here it is:

#1 these agencies have been demonised by the left since the days of Joe McCarthy
(you obviously know bugger-all about the Mc Carthy era)


#2 Give [Trump] a chance and he will put the heart back into the USA.

Ake, I no longer have the time, or the will, or the intestinal fortitude to continue attempting a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent and/or attempting to out-piss a skunk.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:41 PM

"My views generate a lot of traffic on this forum, some threads ran into many thousands of posts"

That's what you said. No cheating this end. Now where are those threads of many thousands of posts, please? Either tell me which ones or withdraw your outrageous claim as to your massive influence. It's not easy to get me to drop these things, you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:55 PM

watch the press conference that Trump held this evening

Uh, Steve - that wasn't a news conference. It was a pep rally to gin up his demented followers & fan base.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:15 PM

16 Feb 2017 Trump: Administration 'Running Like A Fine-Tuned Machine' « CBS New York - CBS New York - CBS ...


"Chaos? There's zero chaos," Trump said. "We are running — this is a fine-tuned machine."

He continued: "We have made incredible progress. I don't think there's ever been a president elected who in this short period of time has done what we've done."

The president blamed what he called the hatred of the media for obscuring his accomplishments.



http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/02/16/trump-white-house-news-conference/ 


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:36 PM

"I really cant stand a cheat, you and Jim are a matching pair."
Did you actually watch this maniac berating the entire roomful of interviewers Ake
How far does he have to go before you explain yourself?
The man is utterly insane - even his own Party are disowning his behaviour
"I don't think there's ever been a president elected who in this short period of time has done what we've done."
Didn't he get that right!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:43 PM

I want to hear of these threads of thousands of posts. If you think I'm being obsessive, dead bloody right I am. I'm sick of people degrading this forum with exaggerations, misrepresentations and downright lies. I'm sick of Keith doing it and I'm buggered if I'm letting akenaton get away with it. If the mods won't sort him, I'll have a go. Sod it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 09:12 PM

people degrading this forum with exaggerations, misrepresentations and downright lies

Could always be worse, Steve - for instance, Trump is degrading our whole country!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 10:55 PM

hahaha e's bloody deadly, sod it no more exaggerations

Steve you have a way of using Trump speak in a Monty Python argument sketch.
You are either quick to virtual anger or a great comedic character

I speculate with the aid of qualified information and it could be argued it is an exaggeration. If I were a journalist that would be anathema but as an individual it is insight when I'm right and drivel when wrong.

No one including you is right all the time.
If you are right as often as Beethoven was, that should be enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 03:47 AM

A nice non-statement Don
Of course nobody is right every time, but some people actually argue by putting up what they think while others make unqualified extremist statements and refuse to support them with argument
It's known as "stonewalling" in cricket (I am told)
That is the greatest cause of anger and abuse on this forum, as far as I can see.
Want an example - try "I really cant stand a cheat, you and Jim are a matching pair."
The maker of that statement will not qualify our dishonesty, neither will he expound on his blanket support for Trump - to do the first would require him breaking his golden rule on the second, and he obviously has no intention doing that.
That is not honest debate
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 04:32 AM

"Try to get over yourselves"

Are mate, with all respect you can't keep saying that. It's really disingenuous and condescending and stifles debate itself.


"If the mods won't sort him, I'll have a go. Sod it."

Ridiculous. Arrogant.

I started this thread to keep track of what the Trumpster was up to and provide a bit of light relief and speculation as to his motives. If you three want to ruin it with your usual love-in can I suggest you go somewhere else and give the rest of us a chance?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:54 AM

Although the thread was started to keep tabs on Trump and his behaviour, is it not also of interest to analyse the actions of those who would seem to be engineering a coup against him. It is all very well to rail against the man but surely the significant factor to be considered is the damage it is doing to the office of the POTUS.
A majority elected him for better for worse yet persons and organisations are hiding in the shadows determined to destroy him.
That is not a happy place for a democracy to be.
It is also significant that quotes can be found from Washington to JFK about hidden movers and shakers; A few are below:-many others can be found.
"A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves, consisting of many and various powerful interests, combined in one mass, and held together by the cohesive power of the vast surplus in banks." – John C. Calhoun, Vice President (1825-1832) and U.S. Senator, from a speech given on May 27, 1836

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."— Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt, An Autobiography,

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings… Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe… no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of "clear and present danger," then I can only saythat the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent… For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day.It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." — John F Kennedy, 35th President of the United States, from a speech delivered to the American Newspaper Publishers Association on April 27, 1961

This warning was further articulated by President Eisenhower in his farewell speech to the Nation, with warning about the military industrial complex. Since then it has further morphed with well established lobbyists blackmailing and cajoling the arms of government to bend to their will.
Time to ask who pays the Piper, the Electorate or the puppet masters?

I find it hard to believe these various quotes were conjured into being without having some substance.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 07:51 AM

"That is not a happy place for a democracy to be."
Nor is the undermining of the judiciary, the media and the constitution
"A majority elected him for better for worse"
A majority did not elect him - Clinton 65,844,954 (48.2%) Trump 62,979,879 (46.1%) - a little more than a quarter of eligible voters supported Trump
However, his behaviour is both a threat to democracy and to the well-being of the planet
Isn't it worth attempting to stop such a monster, despite how many voted for him?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 07:56 AM

In his press conference yesterday the Orange Buffoon continued to lie about his victory in the electoral college.

Alternate Fact


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 08:13 AM

Jim.
The way the American electoral system is constructed indicates beyond argument that Trump won.(if brexit had been carried out on a regional vote akin to the electoral college the leave percentage would have been far higher)

I believe the judiciary upheld the constitution just recently over the immigration ban for those from certain countries.

It is an established fact that both the mainstream media and alternate media on occasions dispense false news.

What is being seen is the engineered take down of a legitimate President. Just imagine the sqeals if Hilary Clinton had won and was being subjected to a similar regime.
There are precedents for replacing a President, the fact that these are not being followed shows a contempt for democracy and the voters.

My thoughts are rather along the lines of the link. Too many revolving doors will kill democracy. It seems the tail is wagging the dog.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-tyranny-of-defense-inc/308342/


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:16 AM

"What is being seen is the engineered take down of a legitimate President. Just imagine the squeals if Hillary Clinton had won and was being subjected to a similar regime."

Very well said Iains, my views exactly, no matter what party one votes for, what is happening is disgraceful, undemocratic and IF the President is removed the repercussions will be unimaginable.

The protests are about what sort of person the "liberals" think Donal John is, not what sort of President he will turn out to be.
These people "liberals" have been wrong about almost everything they have done in the last few years and their friends in the media and security services have a dismal record stretching back decades.
If you want common sense or truth don't ask the Cia or the "liberals"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:24 AM

A majority elected him.   LIE

persons and organisations are hiding in the shadows. LIE
Those who oppose him & his cronies are quite above-board and obvious about it.

the damage it is doing to the office of the POTUS. NONSENSE
In fact, Trump is doing considerable damage, while the oppiosition is attempting to PRESERVE democracy.

quotes can be found from Washington to JFK about hidden movers and shakers IRRELEVANT

In addition, Quotes from Calhoun and Teddy Roosevelt quite amusing, as you obviously have no idea who or what comprised the "invisible government" they were railing against. (HINT: look up oligarchy + plutocracy = Trumpism)

You seem little better than your hero in the area of lies, mis-statements and BS - see:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/trump-fact-check.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:42 AM

"The way the American electoral system is constructed indicates beyond argument that Trump won"
Thew way he is behaving indicates beyond doubt that he has no regard for the American constitution and the verdict of the court has ruled that his behavior is illegal.
The evidence suggests that his and his colleagues' connections with Russia are also illegal as was that country's interference in the election.
He is a belligerent extremist right-wing bully – his actions yesterday show just how ruthlessly dangerous he is.
His warfare with the Judiciary, the Meia and the security services make him an extremely dangerous individual
You can hide behind a dubiously arrived at election result if you wish, but you (and Ake) need to start addressing the consequences of his actions.
Appeasing tyrants has cost a hell of a lot of lives, even in my lifetime.
I'm not sure what your piece from the pro-Trump, 'The Atlantic' is supposed to signify, but it is noteworthy to see that it talks about Eisenhower as an opponent of Russia while here we have Russia interfering in American democracy
As I say – address the consequences of letting this extremely dangerous man go unchallenged and stop hiding behind an electoral anomaly that has little to do with democracy.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 09:58 AM

"Just imagine the squeals if Hillary Clinton had won and was being subjected to a similar regime."

But she was; the FBI leaked her emails but sat on Trump's dealings with Russia. One is a procedural error, one is possibly treasonous.

There's plenty of reason to squeal at the moment; Trump's assault on the press is a work prime hypocrisy; Murdoch was sitting in on his interview with Gove and the other chap. Trump is seeking to control the flow of news to suit his own ends rather than for the purpose of conveying quantifiable truths. This should be thundered against; Farage would do the same for sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 10:08 AM

More "AF's" from Twitler's press conference yesterday according to a fairly neutral source, USA Today:

"• The president praised his administration's implementation of his anti-terrorism executive order, which has been largely blocked by the courts. "The rollout was perfect," he said. But the order caused confusion at the nation's airports, including for green-card holders and dual citizens.

• Trump said that the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which unanimously decided not to reinstate Trump's travel ban, has had its rulings overturned by the Supreme Court "at a record number." Not true.

• Trump wrongly said that Hillary Clinton "gave" Russia 20% of the uranium in the United States. Clinton was one of nine votes approving the deal. She alone couldn't have stopped the deal, which involved 20% of U.S. production capacity, not stocks, and the uranium can't go to Russia without export licenses.

• The president claimed his November victory was "the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan." It wasn't. Three presidents since Reagan captured a larger share of electoral votes than Trump did, including Republican George H.W. Bush.

"• Trump said "jobs have already started to surge" since his election, citing investments by Ford, Fiat Chrysler and Intel. But the investments, much of which were in the works before the election, were largely market driven.

• Contrary to the president's claim that "nobody mentions that Hillary received the questions to the debates," there was plenty of press coverage in October when it was revealed that former CNN contributor Donna Brazile shared several questions with the Clinton campaign during the primary election.

• Trump said he thought the media had "a lower approval rate than Congress." No — the public's approval of Congress is lower than its trust in the media."

The entire story with details for each entry here.

USA Today seems to have overlooked Twitler's falsehood regarding a potential meeting with Rep.Elijah Cummings. The old saw "You can tell he's lying because his lips are moving" seems to be especially true for this man-child.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 10:14 AM

"If the mods won't sort him, I'll have a go. Sod it."

Ridiculous. Arrogant.

I started this thread to keep track of what the Trumpster was up to and provide a bit of light relief and speculation as to his motives. If you three want to ruin it with your usual love-in can I suggest you go somewhere else and give the rest of us a chance?


Blimey, and WE'RE arrogant! 😂 Every thread I start here gets waylaid but I don't moan and groan about it like you do. I simply asserted that I'm taking akenaton on over his fatuous claim that he's the prime mover behind threads-of-thousands. He did it in your thread so why didn't YOU pick him up? For the same bloody reason that I DID pick him up, that's why - because it's a free country. The thread will go whichever way it will and you're no more a thread dictator than I'm an anti-ake mod. And, while you're reaching for your Rennies, just try to remember whose side I'm on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 10:37 AM

"I simply asserted that I'm taking akenaton on over his fatuous claim that he's the prime mover behind threads-of-thousands."

With all due respect, apart from you two no-one gives a shit about Ake's claim and it's no relevant to the thread, just another episode in your ongoing spat. Start a "Steve's Spat Thread".

Now I'm in a spat. Shine on.


"He did it in your thread so why didn't YOU pick him up?"

I don't care about it being my thread, just I didn't intend it to turn into a Ake/Shaw lovefest which it is in danger of doing.


" Every thread I start here gets waylaid but I don't moan and groan about it like you do"

You're obviously a far better man than I.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 10:41 AM

"I'm taking akenaton on over his fatuous claim that he's the prime mover behind threads-of-thousands." - Shaw

Only trouble Shaw is that Akenaton made no such claim did he? All he said was that his comments on the threads he contributes to attach a great deal of attention by way of responses.

As to this addressed directly to Stu - "just try to remember whose side I'm on." - Is this another indication that you and your pals do not act in concert? Thought you weren't supposed to be on anybody's side.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM

"My views generate a lot of traffic on this forum, some threads ran into many thousands of posts"

There ya go, Teribus. Wot he said.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Acme
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM

Another thread in a complete tangle as it shifts to argue over the nonsense that Ake spews and how it should be treated. His work here is done.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:31 AM

Well yes, that was mere nonsense. But on other occasions it's nonsense plus bigotry plus ignorance plus bile, innit?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 11:39 AM

Steve Shaw - 17 Feb 17 - 11:13 AM

"My views generate a lot of traffic on this forum, some threads ran into many thousands of posts"

There ya go, Teribus. Wot he said.


Absolutely Shaw and here is how you responded to that post of Akenaton's

Steve Shaw - 16 Feb 17 - 06:18 PM

"So some threads that you instigated ran to "many thousands of posts"


Tell me Shaw where in the following does he mention threads that he has instigated?:

"My views generate a lot of traffic on this forum, some threads ran into many thousands of posts"

I ask Shaw because I have very good eyesight and I just simply cannot see any reference in that remark to the instigation of anything. I thought that you claimed to be an educated man - can't you read? Do you not understand plain English? Or do you have to "make stuff up" to pick a fight?

You have just been caught out ex-union activist, you are a Troll - to make a point you have to invent stuff - that Steve Shaw Spat thread of Stu's is a damned good idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 12:01 PM

Second what Acme said, this thread is too important to get closed due to the usual backbiting. Start your own Trump thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 12:17 PM

If you have such good eyesight, please show me the threads with the many thousands! 😅


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 04:56 PM

Well, this started as an "Alternative Facts" thread, but within a few posts it had degenerated into a full scale attack on President Trump and his administration, just the usual bile from bad losers, they gleefully applaud leaks from the security services against the Trump administration, yet screamed to high heaven when Wikileaks released the information on Democratic Party corruption and Mrs Clintons indiscretions

The point being that when the thread moved away from a list of alternative facts and into attack mode, the way was clear for members who do not think that Donal-John is the devil incarnate to offer up their views.
I have no intention of trying to have threads closed, as could be seen from the Barthes thread where attacks by several members on myself interrupted the flow of the discussion and Bill asked for the thread to be closed.
On the Labour Party thread a group of people have been trying to have the discussion terminated by taking it off topic and chattering amongst themselves on matters which have absolutely nothing to do with the Labour Party......why this behaviour is allowed I cannot understand, when others are taken to task for trying to have an adult debate.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:00 PM

Try a "figure of speech" or "poetic license", normally used as a common way of making a point clearer. The impact the likes of Akenaton and Keith A have on threads is that they minute they rip your arguments to bits and challenge your contentions there is a group of at least six of you jump in spouting unadulterated bollocks, to use Steve Shaw's expression (By the way it's the bollocks that is Steve Shaw's expression - It is my opinion massively backed up with evidence that it is unadulterated bollocks.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:31 PM

First, Ake, lets dispense with "alternative facts" and call the crap peddled by Twitler& the Trumpists what it is: LIES.

The thread never moved away from the constant stream of lies coming out of the mouth of Twitler and his wall-street corporate crony cabinet.

I you consider pointing out these lies for what they are is not "a full scale attack" on the president and calling the people pointing out these lies "sore losers" is just channeling the deranged five-year-old egomaniac that occasionally (when he's not holed up in one of his hotels or golf courses) occupies the White House.

Give over, already and remember that you are a self-confessed "Scottish Trump apologist, who knows F*** all about US politics".


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:49 PM

No Greg, these words were uttered by someone much more intelligent and insightful than me. I was using them in a futile attempt at irony :0(

However we seem to manage to disagree all the time without resorting to misrepresentations or bad feeling.....when I say that I like your style , I mean it. Debate should be like that, leaving the personal stuff out.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 05:49 PM

"......why this behaviour is allowed I cannot understand, when others are taken to task for trying to have an adult debate."

And some of us wonder why your lying behaviour is allowed. I'm still waiting for you to tell me which threads of "many thousands" of posts you influenced so much. I can't seem to find them. Before you start attacking other people you seriously need to clean up your own act. Just start by being truthful. We can deal with the rest of your issues later.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 06:02 PM

The homosexual "marriage" threads amounted to many thousands(there were several of them) and I ploughed a lone furrow on most of them, assisted by the few real liberals who inhabit this place and believe in freedom of speech.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 17 - 06:10 PM

Give me the thread titles.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 02:15 AM

Shaw, if you can't be arsed to answer the questions put to you by others, can you offer me any reason at all why people should answer yours? I cannot think of one.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 03:47 AM

"Shaw, if you can't be arsed to answer the questions"
If you can't be arsed to address people decently, why don'y to just fuck off?
Your obsessively ill-manned arrogance to everybody who disagrees with you has no place on a debating forum
You bring nothing to a debate other than your self-obsession
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 04:26 AM

Ehmmm Jom, Shaw doesn't even have the manners to address his questions to the person he wants the answer from.

Additionally Shaw does happen to be his correct name AFAIK.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 05:05 AM

"Ehmmm Jom,"
You obviously have no intention of behaving like an adult
I wonder if any passing forum fairy has any better luck than I have in persuading you to do so before you fuck up another discussion
I am not interested in the "he hit me first" mentality - I left that behind fifty-odd years ago
Grow up and let's discuss subjects without your eternal ego tripping
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 05:41 AM

they gleefully applaud leaks from the security services against the Trump administration, yet screamed to high heaven when Wikileaks released the information on Democratic Party corruption and Mrs Clintons indiscretions

I have steered fairly clear of this thread, but there is quite a good 'alternative fact' in that sentence, because you have swapped the time order. Let's correct the time order first:

[Democrats] screamed to high heaven when Wikileaks released the information on Democratic Party corruption and Mrs Clintons indiscretions, yet they gleefully applaud leaks from the security services against the Trump administration

And now let's change the viewpoint of that exact scene:

[Republicans] gleefully applaud leaks when Wikileaks released the information on Democratic Party corruption and Mrs Clintons indiscretions, yet they scream to high heaven leaks from the security services against the Trump administration


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:15 AM

More alternative facts from you, Teribus. Now I acknowledge that I'm guilty of breaching the intended spirit of this thread so that's my lot on that theme with you here.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:23 AM

The difference is in the tenses "D", I made it clear by using the past tense which set of leaks came first. A bit clumsy I suppose, but amounting to the same thing at the end of the day.
Additionally. leaks from the security services against the President or his administration is a serious crime, I believe?

Looking again, the time line does matter, it is hypocrisy for the protesters to condemn leaks from an unverified source(hackers) yet applaud what they must know as a serious crime?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:32 AM

Language can be terribly subtle, and word order is just as important as tense in terms of the framing the idea. But the reason it is important to emphasise the time order is that it clarifies who, if anyone is being hypocritical. The Democrat approach can be read as "We will treat you exactly as you treated us", where as the Trump order - I apologise for implying it was all Republicans - is "We insist on being treated better than we treated you".

Each individual leak is illegal, or it is not. I don't think we have any evidence which of the various leaks were ok, dubious or outright against the law, but I am confident there were a mix on both sides.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:40 AM

"Donald Trump Loves Leaks. Except When He Doesn't"

To quote the Everly Brothers, or their songwriter, "So Sad to Watch Good Love Go Bad"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:52 AM

Perhaps one of our US friends can explain if it is illegal for the security services to leak against the sitting President's administration?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 08:09 AM

"Perhaps one of our US friends can explain if it is illegal for the security services to leak against the sitting President's administration?"
Moot point
If the subject of those leaks is disclosure of illegal, undemocratic and unconstitutional information, surely it is the duty of the security forces to pass on that information.
The President is not above the law nor the interests of the American people
Unverifies and uninformed leakers are not comparable
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:02 AM

I think it has to do with leaking classified information Jim.

But I'm not certain about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:08 AM

We have an interesting situation here in Ireland at present
The actions of an honest policeman in blowing the whistle on corrupt practices in Ireland's Guarda Siocorna has led to an unprecedented smear campaign by the force (involving untrue accusations of sexual assault), which has now to the setting up of an enquiry, the demands for the commissioner to stand aside, a call for a general election and the possible resignation of the Taoiseach, (Prime Minister)
Let's hope America has the courage to produce more whistleblowers
Give me whistle blowers over a secret society anytime
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:14 AM

Et tu Jim????   how can you defend the activities of the US security services after a lifetime of speaking against them?
Oh how soon they forget.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:50 AM

how can you defend the activities of the US security services

Because, this time, they're defending the Constitution. Full stop.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Acme
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 11:28 AM

Ake, like Trump, does it hurt your little feelings that whistle blowers are outing crimes so early in his administration? Good.

As federal employees they swore allegiance to The CONSTITUTION, not to the president. That gives them the moral high ground when it comes to bringing down a petty president who wants to play king.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 04:09 AM

"how can you defend the activities of the US security services after a lifetime of speaking against them?"
I'm not defending them, I am praising their actions here in relation to Trump, where you are choosing to use one of the few good things that have done to defend a dangerous monster.
How about explaining the unconstitutional and illegal actions of 'The Man Who Would Be King' instead?
Trump's actions are ruled illegal and unconstitutional by the court so, like the 'Angry Bird' that he is, he vents his tweeting fury on the "so-called" judges.
Is that your take on democracy?
Trump's team enlists the aid of an extremely aggressive foreign power which is engaged in a bloody, genocidal war, to win the Presidency
Is that your take on democracy?
Are we likely to see you using the term "democracy" as you do "liberal" to denigrate progressive people and ideas?
It's the logical path you are on to openly declaring your right-wing extremism.
I don't expect an honest response to any of these, but as I've said in the past - your silence speaks volumes.
Now - let's hear it for whistle-blowers who tell us what we have a right to know
Gawd bless 'em, every one, as Tom Cratchit was heard to remark!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 10:42 AM

Trump fires up the crowd by lying to them in Florida, this time about a non-existent terrorist attack in Sweden.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Fossil
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 05:24 PM

The terrorist attack in Sweden was not exactly "non-existent". What it has turned out to be, in fact was a right-wing neo-Nazi attack by some skinheads - who have all now been arrested - on an immigrant centre. In referring to this one incident which happened several months ago, SCROTUS hasn't really made his case against immigration, except indirectly that the presence of immigrant centres tends to provoke backlashes from insecure white male idiots. Sweden remains unmoved otherwise and some economists are crediting the immigrant intake with the excellent economic results achieved by the country in recent weeks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 05:39 PM

Sorry, fossil, but he specifically referred to 'last night in Sweden'. That can't be an attack several months ago. Then on the news tonight the case was being proposed that it referred to a general increase in crime level. That doesn't fit with "last night" either. The theory that he mixed up an attack in Pakistan seems most plausible but that would require admitting to making a mistake. It seems unlikely we will hear that from the White House. I'd put higher odds on a claim that the footage of him saying it is fabricated.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Fossil
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM

Last night? Months ago? All same in Trump's mind. Have heard the Pakistan theory as well and it makes about as much sense! Time, space, distance, countries, all meaning-free. In the world of alt. reality, anything is possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Fossil
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 11:04 PM

"Last night in Sweden" now seems to be related to a discussion SCROTUS had seen on Fox News (where else?) in which a journalist Ami Horowitz, who had visited Sweden, claimed a link between rising crime and refugee admissions. But not related to any specific incident.

You couldn't make it up, could you?

Well, if you are DT, you could!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 03:18 AM

Now Trump supporters are saying there's a huge media cover-up in Sweden. The swallow Trump's line on the media hook, line and sinker and now simply invent a world to be outraged by and which enables their hate even more.

Shine on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 03:33 AM

"Now Trump supporters are saying there's a huge media cover-up in Sweden. "
Yeah - 'course it has
And nobody tweets there, do they!!
This man is sick, sick, sick - and the silence from his supporters is just as sick
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 06:22 PM

Sweden? Pakistan?

What's the difference, they're both foreign. This is just typical nitpicking.

I can see him getting Iran and Ireland mixed up before he's done.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Feb 17 - 06:25 PM

Yeah, ya seen one foreign country, ya seen 'em all. Kinda like trees - ain't that right, Gipper?


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Mudcat time: 20 February 11:47 PM EST

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