BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal

Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 11:47 AM

I scanned the article this morning and have just finished a more leisurely read. Robomatic's remark that the article is the "Bread and Circuses" one has some merit, in that it emphasises people value being entertained quite highly - I think of many popular films, for example, that are high on spectacle but have almost no storyline. Also the idea that Trump won because he was playing a different game has merit. Both of these go some way towards explaining why the results were what they are. But they don't resolve it for me, because they neglect two factors that are important. There are those who take the ake viewpoint that some voters were completely neglected under the traditional system and they saw this as a way getting some influence. Like it or not, there are significant numbers who thought - and still think - like that. Equally, this article posits that there are some who value entertainment and spectacle so highly they are prepared to risk losing everything - rights, welfare, what have you - in favour of being entertained. Again, such people definitely exist. For example, compulsive gamblers need the thrill of the bet even if it eventually costs them their home. The article seem to be proposing it was these seekers-after-spectacle-at-all-costs that were the deciding factor. That could be right, but I don't see the evidence for it. And making that case can easily be presented as "the voters were just stupid", but in a more sophisticated language.

Don't get me wrong: I am not Trump supporter. But this article seemed to be an "easy" explanation (albeit a more erudite one).

Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 11:22 AM

I just read the article. Isn't this the old "Bread and Circuses" argument, i.e. the masses have devolved to mixing their politics with entertainment rather than issues and sober reflection?

Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 11:17 AM

Bee-dub.... I never internalize stuff 'quite' that clearly.... but you sure hit the nail on the.. umm... succinctly describe the point.

Trump won by playing directly to those who do not care whether he is lying or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Barthes: explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 10:22 AM

I read the linked article last night, just before retiring. It caused me to have a dream in which Donald Trump was dressed in wrestling tights and hitting Chuck Schumer with a folding chair. It was rather shocking. I usually dream about things that aren't likely to happen in real life.

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:06 AM

It's a good read! Roland Barthes was a smart guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 07:05 AM

Many thanks Sen - very much appreciated
My very best wishes to both of you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:38 AM

Thanks for the link to the article in the OP, Bill. Interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 06:30 AM

Jim, your post at 3.55am was superb. I agree with every word. I've sat here translating it for my husband, and he too feels it absolutely hits the nail on the head. He says, "Bravo Monsieur Carroll!"

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 04:13 AM

Nothing low about the barcode Nigel - a stroke of genius.
That sums the man up perfectly - a wealthy would-be dictator - satire at its very best.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 03:55 AM

Both Trump and Brexit were foisted on the world on the basis of fear and mistrust of "strangers in our midst" - leaders of an ailing society maintaining the status quo by dividing the exploited - a classic tactic of divide and rule.
Immediately after Brexit, racist incidents in Britain soared - Trump went to the polls on an openly racist agenda - Mexicans and "alien bad dudes" and "terrorists in our midst" - a doctrine of hate that echoes pre-war German with Trump the demagogic leader instead of Hitler.
His power lies in his wealth, not in rhetoric or his charisma - the man exudes repulsiveness on the platform - he lacks both Hitler's and Mussolini's ability to mesmerise.
His 'concern for the people' is illustrated by his contempt for them as customers and his crude disregard for women.
The claim that he is the "people's choice" is a myth - he actually won 46.2% of the vote compared to Clinton's 48.1% - he is a minority President who came to power by way of a democratic anomaly in the American voting system.
He selection of followers is an indication that he is attempting to create a Plutocracy and his behaviour is indicative that he is prepared to dismantle parts of the American Constitution in order to do so.
His dream for America is a reincarnation of Hitler's dream of a 'Reich that will last a Thousand Years'
Only the extremist right can possibly welcome this dangerous man as a saviour of the world and their refusal to discuss his policies and their implications, as far as I'm concerned, earns them 'Thatcher's description of "The Enemy Within".
Hopefully America will wake up before his diseased politics spread - his fouled up world isn't the one I wish to bequath the next generations.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 03:40 AM

The New European 'newspaper' has possibly hit a new low this week (it's a weekly, broadsheet sized, English language, newspaper) a full front page picture of Trump, with the barcode strategically place across his upper lip.

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:19 PM

I thought of some of the goofy Italian elections (including porn stars running for office) but this has resulted in something that looks more like it's out of one of the equatorial banana republics, with Trump trying to be a strongman instead of simply the president. (My apologies to the equatorial nations that don't have crackpot leaders).

And more to your point, I love the French philosophers and used Barthes a number of times in my philosophy and English theory classes. Thank for the link!

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bugsy
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:04 PM

It all scares the hell out of me.

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 08:40 PM

I haven't tried your link but there are significant parallels between Trump and Berlusconi, who was re-elected PM of Italy more than once.
I think he got his comeuppance over legal/ monetary conflicts.

Right now I'm watching an interesting old flick: "A Face in the Crowd". Demagoguery is nothing new in American politics. Just that I don't have the good feeling I used to when I could assure my foreign friends that "political jokes are fine, as long as they don't get elected."

Subject: BS: Finally, explanation of Trump's appeal
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 05:33 PM

https://thinkprogress.org/this-french-philosopher-is-the-only-one-who-can-explain-the-donald-trump-phenomenon-47afad40647c#.pvw7i3xm7

Read it all if you can tolerate philosophy. It doesn't help now that he has the job, but it clarifies a lot.