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Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations

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FreddyHeadey 15 Feb 17 - 05:19 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Feb 17 - 02:54 AM
The Sandman 16 Feb 17 - 06:27 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Feb 17 - 06:44 AM
Allan Conn 16 Feb 17 - 07:26 AM
The Sandman 16 Feb 17 - 07:35 AM
GUEST,Reinhard 16 Feb 17 - 08:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Feb 17 - 09:13 AM
GUEST,Morris-ey 16 Feb 17 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,DTM 16 Feb 17 - 01:09 PM
The Sandman 16 Feb 17 - 01:16 PM
GUEST 16 Feb 17 - 01:21 PM
GUEST 16 Feb 17 - 01:26 PM
GUEST 16 Feb 17 - 01:35 PM
GUEST,Ed 16 Feb 17 - 01:41 PM
The Sandman 16 Feb 17 - 02:30 PM
The Sandman 16 Feb 17 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 16 Feb 17 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Ed 16 Feb 17 - 03:19 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 16 Feb 17 - 03:31 PM
GUEST 16 Feb 17 - 03:36 PM
GUEST,Ed 16 Feb 17 - 03:37 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Feb 17 - 04:36 AM
The Sandman 18 Feb 17 - 07:15 AM
GUEST 18 Feb 17 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,Morris-ey 18 Feb 17 - 12:28 PM
akenaton 18 Feb 17 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 18 Feb 17 - 01:15 PM
akenaton 18 Feb 17 - 01:24 PM
GUEST 18 Feb 17 - 02:03 PM
The Sandman 18 Feb 17 - 04:50 PM
The Sandman 18 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM
GUEST 18 Feb 17 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 18 Feb 17 - 06:10 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Feb 17 - 09:13 PM
Allan Conn 19 Feb 17 - 04:11 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Feb 17 - 04:50 AM
GUEST,Ed 19 Feb 17 - 04:58 AM
GUEST,DTM 19 Feb 17 - 07:18 AM
The Sandman 19 Feb 17 - 07:29 AM
The Sandman 19 Feb 17 - 07:32 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Feb 17 - 07:42 AM
The Sandman 19 Feb 17 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,DTM 19 Feb 17 - 08:06 AM
The Sandman 19 Feb 17 - 08:15 AM
GUEST,Ed 19 Feb 17 - 08:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:19 PM

[gss & dtg
It looks like the "... they perform a valuable service in encouraging performers ..." comment was from Mike Daniels but he's not been back since.
thread.cfm?threadid=161498&messages=101#3839098 ]



.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:54 AM

I thought so too, Freddy, but I didn't like to say!


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:27 AM

still waiting for an answer., whoever the comment was from. Ido not know anyone who has been encouraged to perfoprm other than the tiny proprtion of winners.
the majority 0f perfoprmers are encouraged to perform because they love this genre of music and they get a good reception when they perform.
competitions and awards can on occasions be a double edged sword, they encourage the winners and can on occasions discourage those who do not win.the bbc would be better off spending money on folk workshops, or propgrammes like "hold down a chord" , but they wont because this is not about education or improving standards for the bbc it is about viewing figures


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 06:44 AM

vjewing figures.....!

who the hell watches that!
the only times i've watched it are when mates were on it.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Allan Conn
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:26 AM

"Iasked for an answer from Allan Conn, I am still waiting
"can you give me of examples of performers they have encouraged other than past winners?"

I saw your initial post which said you were waiting on an answer to your question but I did not know who that was actually addressed to or what question it referred to. And I have no need to answer that as I never claimed that awards encouraged people to take up the music. It was someone else!!


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 07:35 AM

my point is that these awards are elitist, if you think elitism is a good thing to encourage, do not expect me to agree with you.still waiting for an answer from "someone else" which rather proves my point. the sooner these awards aere stopPed The .Better
the BBC WOULD BE USING LICENCE PAYERS MONEY IN A MORE USEFUL WAY[IMO] ,IF THEY PROMOTED FOLK MUSIC IN A NON ELITIST WAY.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Reinhard
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 08:33 AM

This is what Karine Polwart, nominee and winner of previous Folk Awards, wrote in her latest newsletter:

"I'm also acutely aware of my own personal luck in being a multiple winner and nominee at high-profile events such as the annual BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards. Whatever your take on the fairness or breadth or consumer-packaging of them, they make an impact, make no mistake. I credit those awards with lifting my music to a platform that has enabled me to make a sustainable life these past dozen years (so far, so good) as a writer and musician.

Others are less fortunate, and not because their music has any less meaning or merit. Anyone who already has visibility in their chosen world has an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't."


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 09:13 AM

It is just your opinion, Dick. Many agree. Many disagree. What is the point of arguing?

DtG


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 12:32 PM

"my point is that these awards are elitist, if you think elitism is a good thing to encourage, do not expect me to agree with you.still waiting for an answer from "someone else" which rather proves my point. the sooner these awards aere stopPed The .Better
the BBC WOULD BE USING LICENCE PAYERS MONEY IN A MORE USEFUL WAY[IMO] ,IF THEY PROMOTED FOLK MUSIC IN A NON ELITIST WAY."

Dick, three things: firstly you encouraged another poster to read the thread to find out who your question was aimed at - why don't you read the thread to find out who you asked the question of?

Secondly, have you never come across the concept of aspiration whereby awards encourage others to improve? Probably a foreign concept because you are already a legend in your own mind.

Thirdly, do you pay a BBC TV licence?


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:09 PM

Karine Polwart's assessment(quoted a few posts above)is spot on.
She is also being very modest (totally in character, if I may say) as I am certain her outstanding talent would still have taken her to where she is now whether she had won those awards or not. They probably sped up the process, I'll grant you that.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:16 PM

I live in Ireland,Why would I pay BBC licence, I cannot receive it here
However,Whether I pay a BBC licence is not relevant, I am still entitled to say how I think BBC licence money should be used., or do you believe because i live in ireland Iam not entitled to have an opinion on BBC output.
Morriss_ey,one thing, you have aimed a personal attack on me earlier on this thread, which a MOD removed, this unpleasant personal attack not only showed you to be a coward, hiding your identity, it did not show your character in a pleasant light.
Morriss ey, what is your real name,my name is Dick Miles, I have run a folk festival for 6 years, I have run folk clubs and I have been a full time musician for 40 years, who are you what is your name. I assume you are not Steven Patrick Morrissey (born 22 May 1959), professionally known as Morrissey, an English singer, songwriter and author.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:21 PM

"can on occasions discourage those who do not win" Names, please.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:26 PM

..... and also if you live in Ireland, and make no financial contribution to the BBC through the licencing fee, no, you do not have any right to tell them what they should and shouldn't make programmes about. I don't recall anyone here ever telling RTE what they should be programming.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:35 PM

We don't seem to mind having "elite, athletes or soldiers. nothing wrong wrong with the concept of "elite", in those areas.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 01:41 PM

Dick,

Given that you don't pay anything towards them, I'd suggest that you have very little right to demand that "the sooner these awards aere stopPed The .Better"

Also, are you aware that the audience have to pay a considerable amount, as much as £33 plus booking fee for tickets? Given the size of the Albert Hall, I'd suggest that this would cover most, if not all, of the expense of hosting the evening. So perhaps it doesn't have any impact on the licence fee, at all.

Ans as for Ido not know anyone who has been encouraged to perfoprm other than the tiny proprtion of winners., then you clearly haven't listened to the views of many of those who enter the 'Young Folk Award', a integral part of the event? Many, not just the winners, are thrilled about it. And these virtual unknowns are in no way 'the elite'.

Sorry, but your arguments really hold no water at all.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:30 PM

if it has no impact on the licensing fee, then it is not relevant where i live or whether i pay a licensing fee.
you shot yourself in the foot there.
anonymous guest hiding your identity, you can think what you like.
you attempt to smear my character, whilst hiding behind an anonymous name.
IT DOES NOT ALTER THE FACT THAT I AM ENTITLED TO STATE MY OPINION THAT I THINK THESE AWARDS ARE ELITIST.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:35 PM

"My function is not to reassure people. I want to make them uncomfortable. To send them out of the place arguing and talking."
Ewan MacColl
HOWEVER SOME HERE ARE UNABLE TO DISCUSS WITHOUT SMEARING OR INSULTING. YOU COWARDS.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 02:53 PM

Dick

If you don't live in the UK, don't receive BBC programming and don't pay the Licence fee then you have no say and your opinion on BBC programming is nugatory.

You are not actually discussing anything here you telling people how it should be and getting hysterical when people don't agree.

AS to my name, if I said it was Alexander Cavanagh would that advance the argument in any way?


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:19 PM

Wow, Dick!

I pointed out two reasons why the cost of the awards shouldn't concern you. A) You don't live here or pay anything towards it and B) It probably pays for itself.

Your response: you shot yourself in the foot there. Yeah right, OK...

Quite why you're saying: UNABLE TO DISCUSS WITHOUT SMEARING OR INSULTING. YOU COWARDS. is beyond me too. I don't think any one has.

To use contemporary vernacular: 'Take a Chill Pill'

One interesting point is where Morris-ey got his name from. I'd always, this being a folk site, assumed 'Morrissey & The Russian Sailor' but being a huge Smiths fan since '83 myself, I can understand Stephen being the inspiration.

Ed


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:31 PM

I used to be a Morris dancer, is all.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:36 PM

:) love it.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Feb 17 - 03:37 PM

Thanks for clarifying that, Morris-ey. The thought had just crossed my mind!


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 04:36 AM

I can think of a whole generation of young singers that should have been nurtured by the folk scene, but weren't.

And the folk establishment is SO bloody smarmy, middle class and offensive.. at major festivals you see them smarming over some young puppy, whose parent played the third yoyo on the 60's folkscene. Totally forgiving their lack of talent, stage presence, instrumental ability, preparedness to perform....and generally pissing away the creative opportunity that should have gone to someone far more dedicated.

If you haven't noticed this. You're blind.

Its the misfortune of the BBC Folk Awards that it represents this unfortunate aspect of the folkscene in many peoples minds.

You can't bring it to court for any of the above....but if you want a brief explanation of why people resent it, perhaps unfairly...there you have it.

Personally I think...thats how things are. that's how it always has been. live with it. a gang of would be toffs. leave 'em to it. theres plenty of the rest of the world for us to live in.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 07:15 AM

I am concerned SOLELY about the direction the UK FOLK SCENE has gone over the last 50 years.
I think number one priority is improving standards at grass roots level.
Over the last 40 years, i have seen the uk folk scene change and go in a direction musically which I believe was a mistake.
I am not prepared to remain silent any more,
If we can discuss the topic and not make insinuations about the motives of posters this could be a discussion which HOPEFULLY makes people think about the priorities of the UKfolk scene


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:55 AM

You have been very clear in stating your concerns Good Soldier. Some agree, some don't..lots of room for both points of view. But you seem to want to go on saying the same thing over and over, we get it, really we do but it appears that some of us disagree, let it go at that, no need to keep repeating yourself.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 12:28 PM

OK Dick, so how do you suggest the UK folk scene improves standards at grass roots level?


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 12:48 PM

I agree GSS, but I'm afraid the fault lies in society. People have changed dramatically since the sixties......There is definitely something lacking in the youth. Proper work and the music that it created, no longer exists, the communities broken up to be replaced by mobile phones and "social media", the cult of celebrity rules....me..me... mee!
We are losing something very precious, but perhaps a new way of life is just around the corner, necessity may cause us to develop a bit of interdependence again, then we could try the Irish model of small competitions for young people to encourage real study of the tradition.....and most important a return to festivals and street music.....the jewel in the crown of traditional folk music.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 01:15 PM

What planet do you live on? People have changed since the sixties? Why does that surprise you, given that was over 50 years ago? Festivals are more common and more attended than folk clubs.
Face it, you are the past - and there is much to celebrate about the past not least that is where folk comes from - but times and attitudes change. Like it or not you cannot change it.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 01:24 PM

I don't think you have any understanding at all about the ethos of traditional music Sir.

It is not about contorting the music into a saleable item, but what one puts into it without radically changing the music.....the emotional content, the element of audience participation, cherishing the music, polishing it till it shines.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 02:03 PM

Music can shine, be beautiful, be rooted in tradition and still be saleable. Being saleable or popular is not a sin. The arts have always been part of the fabric of society. they should not be hermetically sealed in some romanticised past. If that happens, they die.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 04:50 PM

No, music can evolve without it being commercialised or as you "spin" it saleable,and has done for centuries without the help of commercialisation.
Bach is a case in point, Bach did not want to explore equal temperament for commercial reasons, He wished to use modulation which was not possible using the existing temperaments., for artistic reasons
CCE are another case in point, they were formed because some musicians thought the music was being contaminated so they set out to preserve it,
Ironically, through their competetion system they have caused it to evolve in a manner directed by them, they have discouraged regional styles and encouraged through their marking system a CCE style,but their motives were not commercial.
music will evolve, regardless of commercialisation and does not need commercialisation to help it evolve, that does not mean that commercialisation does not change it, what it means is that commercialisation is not the only thing that causes change in the music.
your argument is a weak one because the way you have expressed yourself suggests that music will only evolve through commercialisation, this is complete poppycock balderdash and nonsense.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM

my point is that music will evolve without the assistance of commercialisation, and i have provided examples, so putting forward an argument that commercialisation is good because it causes the music to evolve is a false argument.
music has evolved and continues to evolve for other reasons apart from money making.
JAZZ is another genre where styles have evolved for reasons other than commercialisation, the idea that Bird Parker developed be bop to make money is a joke
In the late 1930s Parker began to practice diligently. During this period he mastered improvisation and developed some of the ideas that led to bebop. In an interview with Paul Desmond, he said that he spent three to four years practicing up to 15 hours a day.[7]

Bands led by Count Basie and Bennie Moten certainly influenced Parker. He played with local bands in jazz clubs around Kansas City, Missouri, where he perfected his technique, with the assistance of Buster Smith, whose dynamic transitions to double and triple time influenced Parker's developing style.

In 1937, Parker played at a jam session at the Reno Club in Kansas City. His attempt to improvise failed when he lost track of the chord changes. This prompted Jo Jones, the drummer for Count Basie's Orchestra, to contemptuously throw a cymbal at his feet as a signal to leave the stage. However, rather than discouraging Parker, the incident caused him to vow to practice harder, and turned out to be a seminal moment in the young musician's career when he returned as a new man a year later.Parker was a highly influential jazz soloist and a leading figure in the development of bebop,[2] a form of jazz characterized by fast tempos, virtuosic technique and advanced harmonies. Parker was a blazingly fast virtuoso, and he introduced revolutionary harmonic ideas including rapid passing chords, new variants of altered chords, and chord substitutions. His tone ranged from clean and penetrating to sweet and somber. Parker acquired the nickname "Yardbird" early in his career.[3] This, and the shortened form "Bird", continued to be used for the rest of his life, inspiring the titles of a number of Parker compositions, such as "Yardbird Suite", "Ornithology", "Bird Gets the Worm", and "Bird of Paradise". Parker was an icon for the hipster subculture and later the Beat Generation, personifying the jazz musician as an uncompromising artist and intellectual rather than just an entertainer.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 05:58 PM

You really shouldn't copy and paste from Wikipedia without attributing it, Dick. Not good form.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 06:10 PM

Dick: Music evolves in all sorts of ways. Your way seems to stifle evolution, to try to fix it in the time you think it was "best", the way you have performed it for decades. The Folk Revival was hugely successful in breaking down such antediluvian attitudes and the result was a growth in folk music never seen before.

Other ways promote evolution in a way that is accessible to, dare I say, the younger generation who enjoy folk music.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Feb 17 - 09:13 PM

you can't blame the folk awards for the whole direction the folk world moved in.

agreed, its symptomatic of what went wrong and why a generation of pro performers didn't emerge that nowadays cause us to down telly remote and head off to the folk club to be entertained, in the way we did.

but perhaps the lacklustre reflection reflects a lacklustre reality.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Allan Conn
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 04:11 AM

Remembering that by its very nature professional musicians are trying to make a living out of playing music; and remembering that this thread is about the Folk Awards; I am left wondering which of the nominees for either best singer or best band are being accused of being too commercialised? As far as the bands go we have Alasdair Roberts' band The Furrow Collection playing things like Hind Horn or The Demon Lover etc; we have Breabach who are a fairly straightforward modern Scottish trad band; we have The Gloaming who I don't know well but seem to be an Irish band fusing trad with elements of modern jazz; and 9Bach who bring in middle eastern influences and sing in Welsh!! Some people may not like some of the arrangements (and surely we've always had people dictating how people should play things?) but in all fairness none of these bands seem to be chasing the pop pound and who is anyone to say that they do not take their music seriously and are only playing it for commercial reasons?


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 04:50 AM

i don't think anybody is being accused of being too commercialised.

just perhaps not really inspirational, when more inspirational models are/have been available.

as my old English teacher used to say of various writers....he doesn't really set the mind on fire.
put it another way - Alan Bennet said of Louis MacNeice, ....he never went overboard and made a fool of himself about boys, politics or whatever: so he didn't make much of a splash.

i didn't used to come home from the folk club, thinking that's a good working musician. i used to think i have shared in magic that i wouldn't have seen sat at home watching the val doonican show.

that's what's gone wrong. and you can't put it right following a tradition or arranging university courses for middle class kids who want to take the risk out of joining the circus.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 04:58 AM

i didn't used to come home from the folk club, thinking that's a good working musician. i used to think i have shared in magic

Maybe you've just got older, Al?


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 07:18 AM

Oops! I seemed to have opened up a can of worms here.

The point I was trying to make in my original post was that Awards shouldn't be set up as competative on the night. Instead of having the obnoxtious "..and the winner is!" why can't they just give an award to someone for something well done without all the pseudo-Holywood barff?


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 07:29 AM

"Your way seems to stifle evolution,"
my way, i have not advocated anything other than I think it is a good thing for the uk folk scene to have more workshops to improve standards at grass roots level how does that stifle evolution?.
I also suggested that these awards be stopped, how does that stifle evolution, music evolves regardless of commercialisation and i have given examples.
musicians wish to explore and break boundaries for artistic reasons, not commercial reasons, again examples have been provided, commercialism by its nature takes music away from its roots,
its quite true I would like to stop that, however I am not in charge.
i dont wish to stifle music evolution, I wish folk music to be given the right sort of financial and musical support and send it in a direction that helps to raise standards, with higher standards more members of the public will treat the music with better respect
.       Classical music is given a lot of financial support and is subsidised to maintain standards, why should folk music be treated differently,
let us look at Ireland, traditional music is heavily subsidised and included in the mainstream media[ without the music being compromised artistically]it is not necessary for the evolvement and encouragement of music for it to be commercialised.
if you use trad music to promote toothpaste, it promotes the music but artistically it lowers its merit, a beautiful song becomes associated with tooth paste, the image is ruined.
there are lots of ways folk music can evolve, the influence of jazz improvisation for example,Commercialisation is not going to do that job music improvisation workshops will do that.
let us look at the jazz world, my relative Nat Peck played with Glenn Miller,Dizzy Gillespie etc, like many jazz musicians he had to   play as a session man for people like Petula Clark, and satisfy his artistic and musical boundaries playing jazz in non commercial bands like francy boland, he talks about how Glenn Miller band improved artistically and musically after Miller died, in this clip.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FxGVtTdxAo


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 07:32 AM

2Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,DTM - PM
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 07:18 AM

Oops! I seemed to have opened up a can of worms here.

The point I was trying to make in my original post was that Awards shouldn't be set up as competative on the night. Instead of having the obnoxtious "..and the winner is!" why can't they just give an award to someone for something well done without all the pseudo-Holywood barff?"
   
because the BBC has lost the plot, it used to have a remit to some extent to educate, now it is about being commercial about viewing numbers.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 07:42 AM

they do that shit for people who make cakes.

Ian Anderson of hotVultures/Froots fame just posted his 1968 guest list for his Bristol folk club on FB

Al Stewart. Ralph Mctell, Clive Palmer, Mike Cooper...some others also legendary!


I did get old, but also the acts got worse.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 08:00 AM

Musically, UK trad music is stifled, by people sticking to certain musicial modes, mathematically there becomes a limit to new tunes being composed, this has nothing to do with commercialisation, but with audiences and paying people have come to equate as a uk/irish, scots welsh trad sound,
use of other modes, and other instruments like sitars which use quarter tones, would help the music to evolve artistically,
again commercialisation,plays very little part in this, mainstream music does not appear[ at this point in time] intersted in turkish or indian music, or the use of the hijaz scale
It is common in Arabic and Egyptian music, in which it is known as Hijaz-Nahawand or Bayati maqam, and used in Hebrew prayers and Klezmer music, where it is known as Ahava Rabbah, Freygish or just the "Jewish scale", and is called Dastgāh-e Homāyoun in Iran
how many hits in the top ten [which is commercial music] use anything but the western major scale, do they use the hijaz scale NO DO they use quarter tones, NO because they play safe they stifle artistic explOration, because they know that turning out and marketing the same old bland unitersting variations on the familiar western music scales will make money, they know that there are a proportion of racists in England who will not buy anything that has a turkish or indian sound, commercialisation in these cases stifles evolution of music.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 08:06 AM

I sing quarter tones, now and again, GSS
Totally unintentially though. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 08:15 AM

DADGAD, a major evolution on the UKFOLK SCENE. Was it the result of Commercialisation, no no non.
Davy Graham visited Morrocco, he did not go there for commercial reasons, he came across a tradtional instrument called the UD.
He noted the tuning and adapted it for guitar.
if Commercialisation encourages the evolution of music, how come there was no one using the ud on top of the ,plops before Davy Graham went to Morrocco, why ?because the promoters of top of the poops did not think it would be commercial.
this is superbhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UYxS9rAIxg


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 08:35 AM

Al,

All that I was trying to point out was the fact that as we get older, we probably don't feel the wow factor as much. I'm 50 this year, and love hearing new music both live and recorded in many genres. However, it never gives me quite the same buzz as it might have done as a teenager. I think unfortunately, that's just life...

I did get old, but also the acts got worse.

I really don't think that's fair. There's loads of excellent stuff if you bother to look.

1968 guest list for his Bristol folk club on FB

Al Stewart. Ralph Mctell, Clive Palmer, Mike Cooper...some others also legendary!


If I may make an obvious point? The young artists of today have only just started! How the hell are they supposed to be legendary yet?

Dick,

What the fuck are you on about? Since when has the Phrygian dominant scale been any major part of English folk? I don't know if you try and use your Wikipedia copy and paste approach to make yourself look intellegent or not. BTW, it doesn't...

how many hits...use the hijaz scale NO DO they use quarter tones, NO because they know that familiar western music scales will make money, they know that there are a proportion of racists in England who will not buy anything that has a turkish or indian sound

Wow!!!


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 09:35 AM

Al puts it best.....the magic has gone.   and I'm not JUST an old fart, love to listen to people like Brendan Power who has shaped traditional music in a GOOD way, he has found a new way of presenting trad without bleaching it or twisting it out of recognition. Everything he plays has a magical content. Archie Fisher is one of the old brigade, but still can give his songs the breath of life
Windward Away can actually bring tears to my old dimming eyes.

The old performances do not fail with time, go back and listen to what we heard in the sixties, with the exception of a few which did become hackneyed the magic is still there in the life and performance.


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 09:56 AM

Al puts it best.....the magic has gone.

Your view saddens me, akenaton. All things must pass, and everything evolves.

This summer, there will be many thousands of young people watching, playing and dancing to folk music at festivals and having the time of their lives!

Do not begrudge them that...


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 10:04 AM

Just because the phrygian dominant scale has not been used before, why should uk folk music be restricted to its present modes

Fair enough. Come up with some pieces in that mode, and see what the rest of us think of them...

Bet they won't make the charts!


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Subject: RE: Radio 2 Folk Awards 2017 - Nominations
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Feb 17 - 10:07 AM

Discovered yesterday, at suggestion of the owner of "The CD Shop" in Sevenoaks, Rose Cousins and Eilen Jewell, what a delight they both are. How lucky they are at not needing recognition from the Muscat folk police!!!


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