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BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)

Donuel 05 Apr 17 - 04:15 PM
Jack Campin 05 Apr 17 - 12:54 PM
Donuel 05 Apr 17 - 11:45 AM
Donuel 02 Apr 17 - 10:35 AM
bobad 02 Apr 17 - 09:21 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Apr 17 - 09:16 AM
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meself 01 Apr 17 - 10:31 AM
Hrothgar 01 Apr 17 - 06:43 AM
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McGrath of Harlow 31 Mar 17 - 04:45 PM
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akenaton 25 Mar 17 - 03:09 AM
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robomatic 24 Mar 17 - 11:45 AM
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Mr Red 24 Mar 17 - 05:52 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 17 - 04:15 PM

Traitors are scum at any price. Whistle blowers pay for their integrity.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Apr 17 - 12:54 PM

It looks like the Turkish government paid Flynn ten times as much as the Russians, and didn't get much for it:

Proposal to snatch Gülen

Erdoğan was probably too stupid to research the market rate in American officials properly.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 17 - 11:45 AM

Bannon ousted from National Security Council.

Perhaps a result from Gen. McMaster's insistence


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 10:35 AM

In prior financial disclosures Flynn failed to include payments from Russia to spread fake stories from Russian intelligence. He has since amended his financial statements.

Flynn was bought off cheap. $45,000 for a speech in Russia praising Putin.
Also 5 figure payments for services he performed while in America. Manifort (ran Trump Campaign) got 10 million a year from Russia for at least 3 years.

This is only what is proven and admitted so far.

Was Trump himself paid? We have not proven that yet. However there is a ton of circumstantial evidence. We believe we know how he was paid.
We believe he was paid by being the leading figure in a consortium to invest in buying 19% of the only Russian Oil Company which would open 63 million sq. miles of drilling rights to Exxon - only if sanctions re dropped ginst Russia..

In comparison Exxon has the oil drilling rights in the USA of 14 million miles.

Trump is an opportunist who will take money from anyone. Russian oligarchs are a mixture of crime bosses, oil company, money laundering organizations and government officials. We know Donald has a huge debt to known money laundering Banks in Germany and Cyprus.

A tax return may be a short cut to prosecution for Donald but there are other ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 09:21 AM

Trumputin.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 09:16 AM

Trumpovski!


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 10:55 AM

Most likely "or something".

Flynn is a conspiracy theory fanatic and all-around lunatic, with a tenuous grasp on reality.


Rather like Twitler, his cabinet & advisors...


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: meself
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 10:31 AM

Flynn seems to be playing some kind of game. From what I gather, the usual approach is to negotiate immunity behind closed doors: "here's what I can give you if you give me immunity - deal?" He's putting on a show for somebody, or making a public threat, or something ....


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Hrothgar
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 06:43 AM

From a mildly educated foreign point of view, it is all very interesting.

As far as I can see, Flynn's evidence might be critical to any action against Trump.

If the committees in the US Congress are similar to Australia's, the Republicans will have a majority on the House Intelligence Committee because they have a majority in the House.

If they refuse to grant Flynn an immunity against prosecution, he will "take the Fifth" (I think that is the quaint American expression) and refuse to answer any questions (including what his name is). This might shoot the whole inquiry down in flames. However, if enough Republicans dislike Trump, they might vote with the opposition and give him immunity.

This will be further confused if the opposition Democrats decide they want Flynn's scalp and refuse to give him immunity.

Whatever happens with Flynn, if the inquiry does come up with enough to impeach Trump, the impeachment still has to be voted on, and needs quite a few Republicans to vote against a Republican President to succeed.

... and then, you have President Pence.

Best of luck, fellers ...


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Mar 17 - 06:37 PM

will President Pence be a significant improvement?


No.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 17 - 04:45 PM

If Trump gets impeached and removed from office, will President Pence be a significant improvement?

Wouldn't he be likely to have a tame and loyal Congess helping put through legislation which would be essentially the same as Trump, but without stirring up the same degree of opposition and resistance?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Mar 17 - 01:30 PM

Now give Flynn a break - he was convinced that Hillary was running a child pornography ring out of a pizza parlor.

And the rest of Twitler's cabinet/advisors are even less bright.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 31 Mar 17 - 12:19 PM

"When you are given immunity, that means that you have probably committed a crime." – Michael Flynn on Hillary Clinton in September.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 17 - 06:06 AM

"Its Black Hack Friday.
Its like listening to the WATERGATE tapes live.

Trump is still alive and supporting Putin."

Donald 'Hackman"


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 17 - 06:00 AM

Its Friday and this was the day to let all hell break out with testimony from the former acting attorney General and naming up to 19 Americans who are linked to Russian hack attacks. The hack attack is effecting virtually all Washington politicians. Too bad the White House told Congress to disinvite the former AG, so she will not be heard. The truth is so hyperbolic now it is embarrassing to write about this lack hack Friday. Everything is so balled up that people under investigation are being leaked internal FBI reports including the President.

How brazen is the hacking? I have seen C-Span hacked by Russia on live TV.


Flynn is facing many charges including conspiracy to omit kidnapping so he wants some immunity. He may not get any. He pissed off a former CIA director Woolsey by trying to involve him. Some say he was a lobbyist to Turkey but the legal name for it is SA. He registered as a secret agent for Turkey just recently


McGrath , the FBI in general was angry with Clinton and Sanders over the peril law officers felt being placed in peril by perceived Democratic policy. many agents were for the law and order candidate Trump
Comey was walking an internal tightrope.

Did Comey get played? sure But he relies on the rule of the law in extraordinary situations in the past and will again.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 31 Mar 17 - 03:37 AM

Nothing to add to my last post. We'll see how these various investigations go.

I suppose Flynn has changed his chant to "Please Don't Lock Me Up!"


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 08:43 PM

But were the leaks put out by Wikileaks about the DNC false in any way, or just inconvenient? Can there be any doubt that the DNC very much preferred Clinton to Sanders, and did what it could to get the primary results that helped ensure Clinton was the candidate?

So far as I have read, the distortions and spinning, and the fabrications were very much home produced. The Russians may have supplied some of the tinder, but it was Americans who piled it high round Clinton and set it ablaze. I've seen no indications that material eminating from allegedly Russian hackers was forged

Perhaps the biggest single and most crucial bit of fake news was the con pulled by the FBI ten days before the election, when they issued a scare story about "freshly available" Clinton emails, with an implication that they wre horrendously incriminating - when in fact they do not appear to have been either freshly available nor incriminating. And neither the Russians nor Wikileaks (hardly the same thing) had anything whatsoever to do with that - and arguably it put Trump in the White House.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:31 PM

Getting interesting:

According to a report in The Wall Street Journal, Mike Flynn, the former national security adviser for President Donald Trump, has informed the FBI and the House and Senate intelligence committees that he is willing to be interviewed in exchange for immunity from prosecution. Flynn was privvy to information about foreign policy deliberations and was involved in the discussions around possibly lifting Russian sanctions imposed by the Obama administration. Flynn was forced to resign after acknowledging he misled White House officials including Vice President Mike Pence about the topic of his phone conversations with the Russian ambassador during the transition period.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 08:51 AM

To me, as a U.S. voter, Russian meddling in our elections is a very big deal. The stuff from Wikileaks regarding the DNC's preference for Clinton over Sanders no doubt alienated a number of Sander's supporters and caused them to vote a 3rd party ticket or stay home. The biggest deciding factor in the very close election (aside from a 30 year smear job the GOP conducted against HRC when they recognized her as a potential political force) was the poor turnout by Democratic voters because T***p won with a small, admittedly enthusiastic, minority of the U.S. population. It's also highly likely that Russia hacked the RNC and T***p campaign (which incidentally could make the current administration vulnerable to blackmail by Putin) and could have dumped a lot of damaging info on them as well but chose not to as it would be counter to their goal of electing Twit or at least crippling a Clinton administration, I can imagine Reince Preibus pulling his hair out over Republican voter's preference for Twit over their chosen son, Jeb Bush. If the current administration colluded in any way we've got to know because our voting rights have been vitiated too much already by restrictive voting laws imposed by Republican state houses and legislatures. This isn't about getting at Twitler, I'm convinced his greed and mendacity will sort him eventually, it's about preserving the only method, along with exercising our 1st amendment rights, we common folk have to influence the course of our nation. The ongoing investigations may lead to nothing but considering all the smokescreens and lying emanating from the White House I'm convinced they've got something to hide.

As for Putin, I think it would be hard to make the argument that in recent years his Russia is not the most hegemonistic and aggressive power on the world stage.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:51 AM

CBS Evening News‏Verified account @CBSEveningNews

Intel chairman says Russia hired more than 1000 hackers to create fake, anti-Clinton news in key states, won by Trump. @jeffpeguescbs, now


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 11:21 PM

Russia in Afghanistan, Russia in Ukraine, Russia in Syria

And right now Russia in Russia. Way ahead is a little over-hyped.


America in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.   Russia's Afghanistan involvement is quite some time back, when it was the USSR. And if you count that you have to add in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Chile, Panama, Granada, Nicaragua and a double count of Iraq on the American side of the scale. Way ahead seems fair to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 09:48 PM

At least since the end of World War II the USA has energetically been acting in seeking to affect the vote and its iutcome in country after country - even to the extent of successfully reversing the outcome of elections where the wrong people were elected.

So far as I can see the interference allegedly carried out by the Russians amounts to nothing more than revealing the actual texts of emails sent by some people in the USA which they would sooner not have been revealed. Big deal.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 04:53 PM

Donuel, note that while American's attitudes had grown more positive towards Putin (well, Republican attitudes had) after the election, in the most recent Gallup Poll released on Feb.21 his disapproval rating is still 72 per cent with an approval rating of 13 per cent. I'm in the strange position of agreeing with Uber-Hawk (and Twitler supporter) Cheney when he asserted that the Russian hacking of the election may have been an "act of war". It would be political suicide for just about any Senator or Rep. to be seen cozying up to Putin at this point.

Re the House Intel committee, it appears that chairman Nunes, former member of the Trump transition team, has brought the investigation to a screeching halt, most likely at the behest of Twit himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 04:32 PM

let me see, Russia in Afghanistan, Russia in Ukraine, Russia in Syria

And right now Russia in Russia. Way ahead is a little over-hyped. And what were they doing in those countries that differs from the second Iraq war? the difference is whether you are buying or selling oil.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 01:09 PM

gillymor, good to hear from you. From my perspective with the exception of McCain, Connolly and Lindsey Graham the rest of the Republicans and mad hatter Tea Party seem willing to risk treasonous association with the Russian colluding Trumpists. Once they are called out they claim they know nothing about so and so, or that they didn't know the rules.

Some of the house members who are taking the risk, before they take the 5th, are Nunes, Scalise, Coats, Ryan and over a hundred others.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 07:59 AM

I left out the second investigation which was by request of Trump into the question "who told?" and the wire tapping allegation and is that legal/proper.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 07:57 AM

Yes, McGrath, Putin's been a real pussycat on the global stage. One of the good residuals about the ongoing investigations of the current administration's ties to Russia is that it ensures we won't be forming   any sort of alliance with the murderous thug. Not that the Senate and House and American people would have allowed it any way.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 06:29 AM

After successful investigations, the main issue will finally be up for review which is beyond election interference. It is if the sale of Russian oil interests was made to Trump in payment for US policy change toward Russia.

This is the final nail in the Donald coffin.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 06:23 AM

Mr. Red, the point is collusion with another country to campaign for a candidate. That is against FEC laws/regulations and possibly the Constitution.

It is up to the courts to determine if collusion amounts to treason.

investigations and testimony are blocked daily by the White House and former Trump surrogates now installed in strategic positions.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 05:45 AM

He "gets credit" from me.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 02:41 AM

Well said Mr McGrath, but you will get little credit here.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 08:03 PM

Litvinenko would be about being ruthless and brutal. Being aggressive is about waging wars in foreign countries. In recent years, America is way ahead of Russia in that department.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 06:26 AM

All nations put out pro-self propaganda.
Some nations have the resources and nouse to spread it via many social channels.
Just between Russia and the USA - which country delivers a shock result in elections?
Implication is: which country is the most aggressive and effective in influencing the respective results.
Not a conclusion, but a good place to put the priorities when looking for evidence. eg
Agressive? Ask Mr Litvinenko - er his widow perhaps.
Snowden might know, but could he tell you and live?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 11:31 PM

My favorite act is the dog and pony show they're running with Devin Nunes.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 09:24 PM

The circus is ood.
Also this week's 60 minutes show was about how Russia employs cyber info wars and how big it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 08:32 PM

Just watched 'The Circus that is The White House.
Best unintentional satire I've ever seen
They can-not be serious!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 02:59 PM

The ironic thing could be that the only aspect of Trump that has a smidgeon of sanity, whatever its basis (bent economics or blackmail?), his resistance to the paranoia about Russia, is the one that is most likely to bring him down.

The regime in Russia isn't a pleasant one, but the only people who can make it better are the Russians, and the more foreigners fulminate against Putin, and go in for stuff like miltary manoeuvres on his borders, the more Russians are going to support him, and the greater the danger is that he's going to do dangerous stuff on those borders.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 02:05 PM

Bit weird that, Donuel...


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 01:43 PM

Stu, your reporter is a bit late to the party but the Russian info war attacks are real and effective.

I saw the effects on Google yesterday while viewing the top 10 results for the Marshall plan.
4 results were that it was Russia, not America that rebuilt Europe.

Battles are building.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 01:33 PM

Steve, stop acting like a pathetic juvenile who thinks he owns the ball. Or should I blame your early school system? This is not the power or abuse you seek.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 12:48 PM

Well said, Al.

Akenaton, as you now seem to hate us all so much (well, not all, admittedly - there are a couple of other nutters...), why don't you just leave and never come back?








Please???


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 12:45 PM

Keith, Terribus.....are you sure history is really your thing?

The more pertinent question is: "Is reality your thing?" - the question, of course, being rhetorical.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Stu
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 12:28 PM

Interesting discussion on Radio 4 this morning about the hacker threat to the UK from Russia, which has been targeting a broad range of institutions. Putin must be laughing his cock off as the Brexiteers, their right-wing buddies in Europe and the Trumpers dance to his tune, undoing years of progessive policy and him not having to fire a shot (except in the Ukraine).

He's destabilising Europe and trying the same in the US and yet him and his shills are defended by the turkeys who voted for Christmas. Amazing.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 12:08 PM

In gaining the U.S. Presidency it looks like the old huckster bit off more than he could chew. At least he's consistent though, when a deal went south for him in the private sector he deflected the blame and tried to leave someone else holding the bag as he did with the AHCA fiasco.
Whatever happened to "The buck stops here!"? Good thing HST isn't around to see this Whiner-in Chief.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 10:50 AM

Keith, Terribus.....

are you sure history is really your thing?

I can't help thinking insectology and microbiology might be a better option.

You see , despite your very determined efforts (credit where its due) - you seem to always find yourselves in the position of being a flat earther.

THe land campaigns of the first world war were conducted by military geniuses, who cared deeply about the thousands of casualties. THe English government cared not a fig for retaining Ireland as part of the kingdom.
no doubt you've got evidence to prove cutting Anne Boleyn's head off was an accident with a potato peeler.

earwigs....study them! its your last hope!!


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 10:45 AM

For Fuck sake Gilly!! the mask slipped off the Democratic Party in front of the whole wide world and you want to sweep it under the carpet? You thoroughly deserve the administration you received...in fact you don't even deserve that, you are an outright phoney.

Don asks why I put liberal in quotation marks, it is to signify that people like you Acme and most of this forum are liberal in name only

You cannot bring yourself even to accept the result of an election basically run on your terms, you never in your wildest nightmare imagined that the Electoral college would turn against Clinton, it was your ace in the hole!

Well suck it up children and next time think before you vote.

As far as Donal-John is concerned he has tried to implement his declared policies which are being sabotaged by the Republican establishment.......they, like you "liberals", would have preferred Clinton.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 09:57 AM

Donuel, I'm not arguing that Bernie won't run again (or that Clinton won't, for that matter). The spotlight now is on Donal-Jerk and his obvious hypocrisy ("everyone's gonna be covered. it'll be beautiful") and incompetence as POTUS.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 09:43 AM

Jim, despotic mad man is a bridge too far. Dowd may understate the facts by calling him a belligerent conspiratorial who only thinks h knows 'stuff' surrounded by sycophantic children, but understatements are classy. I remember your four letter word descriptions. Bannon fits the despotic madman best. He actually 'ordered' Congress how to vote.

The keyword in Dowd's column about Trump I believe is "sucker".

Contrary to stated opinions I think Sanders who would be 78 in 2020 could indeed run again, a bit slower next time.

PS Ake the word liberal does not need quotation marks unless it is a quote. Who are you quoting?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 08:42 AM

"I find it truly amazing that "liberals" would dream of supporting someone who advocated a return to a Cold War stance against Russia"£
This is utter nonsense from someone who supports a president who would offend Muslim countries by labeling them suspect terrorists
"Free Russia" has become the despotic terrorist State that the Soveit Union was accused of being.
Has the USSR behaves as Putin's Russia is behaving it would have been the target of worldwide abuse, Amarica and Poodle Britain's being loudest voice.
Now it is part of "the Free World", appeasement is the order of the day.
Trump is a dangerous liability both nationally and internationally; even his own party is realising what a liability he is, and he is going to war with them.
Trump is a despotic madman - but he can rest easy in the knowledge that he still has the support of, The Klan, Ann Coulter
Ake and Nigel Farage to fall back on when all else fails
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 07:45 AM

Clinton and Sanders are now out out of the presidential picture, in the wake of the recent flameout of the draconian, Trump-backed AHCA the real buyer's remorse is being felt by Democrats and Independents and probably by more than a few of his beloved "uneducated" (whom he recently attempted to wrest healthcare from while giving a massive tax cut to the wealthy) who voted for Donal-Jerk if you look at his plummeting numbers. He's on track to become the worst president in recent memory and possibly in our history if he doesn't shake up his (dis)organization soon. It seems that this commentator had a precognition about Twit's ability as a political negotiator.

Maureen Dowd sent a letter to Twit the other day in the N.Y. Times


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 04:57 AM

Another take on the Dunning-Kruger effect is a quote I heard from a professional skeptic (not James Randi but similar)

And who of us are immune from the pitfall? (apart from me of course!)

"People do not scrutinise that which they are glad to hear"


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 03:16 AM

Ah, whether the voters like Bernie or not is basically immaterial if the establishment hate all he stands for.
They undermined him in the most despicable fashion and now the voters have swept it all under the carpet in their campaign to get rid of the legally and democratically elected President.

I find it truly amazing that "liberals" would dream of supporting someone who advocated a return to a Cold War stance against Russia, the things Mr McGrath is saying are exactly the things I was saying throughout the election campaign......nobody was listening then, they were all focused on winning the election, manipulated by the Party machine and the Media.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Acme
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 09:37 PM

The Democratic Party machine presumably did its best to promote Clinton over Sanders, Well, it would, wouldn't it.

Democratic voters here like Bernie, but his promises and policies are the political equivalent of pie in the sky. It was clear that he wasn't going to be able to get any of those things through the House and Senate. Hillary is more of a pragmatist, and was more likely to make some forward progress, particularly in making important adjustments to the Affordable Care Act.

Thanks, Steve. The bullshit that Ake spouts is filtered through his attitude of extreme adequacy. It blinds him to what people are actually saying and doing.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 09:17 PM

Kevin I was reading one of your posts but I was under the impression it was an Ake post and thought to myself "well that is a remarkable turn around. That's the most intelligent thing you have said... oh wait a minute".

I wish my fellow Americans understood at least the method and means of the Trump Russia collusion. I wished they simply cared :@

If I mentioned autobots they would envision the movie Transformers.
However they will understand quid quo pro.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 06:40 PM

I wonder, Kevin, if the folks who voted for the Green party candidate now see that as a stupid mistake - since if those votes had gone to Clinton, she would have won handily.

As for Bernie, if voting for Clinton was good enough for HIM - as it was - that should have been plenty good enough for his supporters.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 06:23 PM

The Democratic Party machine presumably did its best to promote Clinton over Sanders, Well, it would, wouldn't it.

But that wasn't what settled things. The actual decision was primarily made by individual party supporters and members, One which I suggest many people who opted for Clinton rather than Sanders may already see as a stupid mistake.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:49 PM

Don't let him get to you, Acme. Everybody here bar a few lunatics knows that he's a confounded idiot. I apologise for him, once again, on behalf of the whole United Kingdom.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:25 PM

Is there anyone here who sincerely doubts there is a cyber-info-war being waged by Russia upon the US?

From the little I know hacking entered a new era soon after our STUXNET was altered by Israel and left the US with its ass hanging out.

The full strength of the Russian hacking system was put in place to defeat Hillary. Later Putin vowed to retaliate when Obama added sanctions against Russia closing two properties and evicted 22 Russians from the US. How far this will go we don't know.

We seem to be beyond deniability now but Russia being Russia denies everything on principle.

Still I am wondering if folks here would deny if there is an Infowar.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:00 PM

AKE
In the company your link report receives a confidence rating of WAG and RIP

'wild assed guess' and 'Russian intelligence probe'

WAG is the lowest rating they give.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 04:37 PM

An alternative view on Bobad's Link. US leaks


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Acme
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 04:19 PM

Where you come up with this nonsense. . . oh, that's right, living and voting in the U.S. [not].


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 04:15 PM

Mr McGrath the selection of Mrs Clinton was nothing to do with stupidity, The Democratic Party and the US political establishment actively work against the nomination of Mr Sanders, I agree with you that he would probably have won the election, but that frightened the establishment even more than the possibility of a Donal-John victory!

I am sure that they were well aware that A Trump Presidency could be much more easily undermined than that of a popular "socialist".

The real enemy is not Mr Sanders or DJ, but the unholy alliance of Republicans and Democrats to dominate the US political system.
The same old story, "Good cop, Bad cop" divide and conquer.

The West needs to re-evaluate its position and provide a new vision for the future......Hint, it will contain very little of the "liberal" smoke and mirrors which have brought us to this pass.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 04:12 PM

Trying to figure out who said what in bobad's post that Greg didn't like. There's this clarification from @Molly MacKew:
Didn't realize this would blow up. Perhaps worth clarifying: this is a threat by the Kremlin against the United States. Against ALL parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 03:45 PM

Thanks, Boo, for a great example of fake news from Twatter.

Lol Greg, you sound just like Trump who refers to anything that he doesn't like to hear as fake news. What is italicized in my post is straight out of the (Russian) horse's mouth if you care to seek it out - I did.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 03:45 PM

Saying people have made a mistake is not the same as calling them stupid people. That's true even if you say it was a stupid mistake.

Everybody makes mistakes, some of them are mistakes which in retrospect we will recognise as stupid mistakes. "How can I have been so stupid" is something all of us are liable to find ourselves saying - in fact being able to recognise that is an indication of being intelligent.

Voting for Trump in my opinion was a terrible mistake for those Americans who are likely to be much worse off because of his actions. Choosing Clinton over Sanders was also, I believe, a mistake, both because he would have made a better President than Clinton and because Trump would not have beaten him.

I am sure that there will be many normally sensible Americans who in a few years time will reflect on both votes, and think "How can I have been so stupid? "... There will also of course many Trump voters who will think of at the tax cuts skewed in their favour, and who aren't concerned about the needs of people suffering from health cuts, and cheated of the job opportunities they were promised., and they will be congratluating themselves for their wise choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:56 PM

Joe, my unique past is a fact. It is also admittedly hard to believe.

We are in the midst of a great Info war and at this stage it is clearly critical to face hard facts.

We all must ask ourselves , are we helping or hurting our cause?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:27 PM

Over the last 30 years the US and USSR-Russia have researched psychic phenomena, hypnosis and propaganda techniques. Some bore fruit and some did not.
The two countries diverged in their research some time ago. The CIA was interested in using hypnosis to individually forget and hide things but Russia went big and applied it to mass attitude change.

While the CIA was stuck in the rut of perception is reality, their program grew stale.

Russia went big and made reality change apply to millions at a time.
It was a long held goal for them.

You might say propaganda is propaganda. To the Russians it is a much more serious matter. They even have us questioning truth, the NYT and the reality of a post truth world.


The reason why I went into this field was to avoid repeating the past.
The past being crazy insane fascist people taking over a government.

Our CIA were bad boys all right but they were short sighted bad boys.
It is still hard for them to accept my premise. It would be admitting they were wrong about something from the beginning.

The idea of psychic warfare or the war for the hearts and minds looks much different today than we ever thought it would.

Bottom line...It is happening. We are at war.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:24 PM

I don't think Joe allows himself to be unduly influenced by anyone here. He is definitely his own man, but usually approachable, civil and fair .....I think his post has been misunderstood as censure, when it was in effect a piece of well intentioned advice.

Some of the bitching here has been worse than "fake news" which has existed in the political arena for as long as I have studied politics.
The charges of "stupidity" which have been aimed at other sections of the electorate always come forward when the elite see their pet theories and social mores rejected en masse.
I think Joe is reminding us that abuse is no substitute the harder task of self examination.....why did these "stupid" people vote the way they did?   Why do they deserve to be called "pieces of dirt", ignoramuses? why do we harbour such hatred for one man who is trying to deliver what he promised to his supporters.....one man within a political system which stinks to high heaven, heaves with corruption, have you all gone mad?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 01:59 PM

good catch bobad. The info war continues.

Jeri, What I have been saying is that even critical thinking is not enough. Roughly 20% of critical thinkers can be compromised by a few mental tricks that include repetition, Neural pathway construction in the brain and altered self perception. It does not have to include believing something they should not, it can be simply ignoring or forgetting something. When I say hypnosis you think what that means to you but it means something very different to me from 50,000 hours of observation.

I am still discovering things I have believed for a lifetime are actually wrong.
I thought E Pluribus Unum meant one of many. There are lots pf humorous examples of this. Not everyone has this humility to seek or find that we are wrong on fundamental things.

To come to a belief we must have it ingrained in such a way that we may also exceed or release ourselves from that belief. It is hard to do regarding things we are "sure of".

That one thinks it is impossible to forget the number seven or color blue reinforces the ability to selectively forget them in the short run. To change a perception in the long run is basically a repetition game.

It is normal to believe critical thinking will protect you from a false POV. Just like it is normal to forget 7 if hypnotized to do so.

Truth changes/evolves/grows like a living thing but lies are often static.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 01:21 PM

Thanks, Boo, for a great example of fake news from Twatter.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 01:05 PM

From Twitter

Molly McKew Verified account
@MollyMcKew

Foreign Policy and Strategy Consultant. Information warfare expert. Writer. molly@fiannastrategies.com
DC. Idaho. Tallinn. Tbilisi.
fiannastrategies.com

Kremlin threatens to leak everything on Obama admin if leaks continue from DC. The rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper

Also, I would like to say that if the practice of leaking information that concerns not only the United States but also Russia, which has become a tradition in Washington in the past few years continues, there will come a day when the media will publish leaks about the things Washington asked us to keep secret, for example, things that happened during President Obama's terms in office. Believe me, this could be very interesting information.

Our American colleagues must decide if they respect the diplomatic procedure, if they keep their word on the arrangements made between us, primarily arrangements made at their own request, or we create a very few nice surprises for each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 12:12 PM

Have to agree with Greg about people believing fake news. The root of the problem, IMO, is that people aren't taught to think critically. They don't care to do that, they're not held responsible, and so the fake shit just gets perpetuated. When EVERYTHING becomes "faith-based", it's going to end up being mostly crap. "HE said it, so I believe it" "I read it in 'The Grumpy Conservative', so it must be true" "The National Incontinent" had an article on how green tea leads to heroin addiction. Who knew?!"

People are happy being stupid, "not my problem". Except it is, because they vote. Trump is their fault, Congress and the Senate are their fault, and I won't be an apologist for ANY of them - especially not the grass-roots idiots who made it all possible. I think that may include people who say "it's not their fault". Although all I can do about it is argue, bitch, and... vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 12:10 PM

Greg do not think punishment will change human perception,

The beatings will continue until morale improves......


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 12:05 PM

Joe you are a steadfast individual. For 15 years you have taken exception to my original jokes, cartoons, satire and experimental humor. I am sure you were expressing complaints from others but I expect you are personally offended by something more central to our being.

I found my joke well crafted with grains of truth sprinkled throughout. On several occasions I have posted jokes heard on the Bill Mahre Show days before it airs. I don't blame you if you find things that are offensive. Maybe I have it all wrong and you are just a neat freak who wants jokes in the joke thread and recipes in the recipe thread.

I have had people tell me I may only tell jokes about things that only happen to me. I tell them life happens to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 11:39 AM

People have always and will always continue to believe unbelievable things.

The phenomena is fascinating and is as used miraculously for profound good as it can be used for evil.

There is a cure. You must learn the habit of running a skepticism scan.
In other words you must hold central to your being a grain of doubt in all things. We can educate modern man to take these precautions. Getting people to accept this mental phenomenon is the hard part. Critical reasoning people always think they are immune and in 75% f situations they might be right.

God save us from the true believer no matter what realm they are from.

Greg do not think punishment will change human perception, wiring or belief. It will change behavior and usually not for the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 10:40 AM

Knew of the phenomenon, but not under that name, Mr. Red. Think you've got it in one.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 10:38 AM

Too many people tend to believe [fake news]. And they're not to blame...

They are ABSOLUTELY to blame, Joe, if they choose to believe lies with no factual corroboration and other obvious idiocies. Or are you out to infantilize the entire country?

We need to tell people the truth, and only the truth.

Well, Joe, I think you're taking the wrong person to task on this, considering the posting history of a trio of individuals I could name.

Of course, that's only my opinion - but it's backed up by actual fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:17 AM

Are you really so thick that you can't see this?
Greg F
have you come across the Dunning-Kruger effect? Ably demonstrated by some posters of this parish.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:16 AM

Donuel sez: "Donald threw a tantrum on Air Force that caused Secret Service to draw their guns. Donald had banned Mexican food on Air Force One that put a crimp on the Plane's menu. Twice he had steak for lunch and then once again the choice was fish or steak during his flight to Wisconsin."
-AND-
ITS A JOKE AKE


You know, Donuel, the joke doesn't work. We really need to argue from facts. "Fake news" doesn't work, no matter what side it comes from. Too many people tend to believe it. And they're not to blame, because they're surrounded by falsehood nowadays.

We need to tell people the truth, and only the truth. That's the only way to win people's trust.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 08:10 PM

"I don't need any political lessons from someone who suggests that the most important thing in the election is the gender of the victor."
You'd rather give your support to someone who had been show publicly as describing women as available meat whose pussy can be fondled whenever the man feels he needs to!!
Ah well - diff'rent strokes for diff'rent blokes.
"Miss Coulter?"
Still showing respect for the Darlin' of the Klan!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 08:00 PM

Of course Ake must defend rich man Tump. So what is the final solution for the proletariat and bourgeois? Who is to be punished, Muslims, Democrats, Women, The poor, the near poor??

Even you must know by now the middle class does not exist as an actual socio economic power as they did 30 years ago.

It looks like Flynn needs to lawyer up for conspiracy to kidnap and violate extradition laws. Ex CIA director Woolsey has decided to testify against him.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 06:53 PM

I don't need any political lessons from someone who suggests that the most important thing in the election is the gender of the victor.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Acme
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 01:51 PM

I includes I would presume almost everyone in this forum.

Your presumptions are faulty. On everything.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Stu
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 12:39 PM

"I includes I would presume almost everyone in this forum."

So many presumptions presented with so little fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 12:33 PM

Don, I'm afraid I include most of the middle class in the "elite", people who have a temporary stake in the continuance of the status quo. I includes I would presume almost everyone in this forum.

Certainly many times more than the 20,000 you quoted, they are numbered in millions.....didn't you watch them crying on election night with Miss Coulter?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 12:08 PM

Two things to be going on with.....Détente with Russia is preferable to the Cold War mentality offered by Mrs Clinton.
President Trump wishes to put Americans back to work, stop outsourcing jobs through the globalisation con and stop reliance on cheap immigrant workers to bolster the economy.
This reliance is a "double edged sword", as it leaves behind millions of redundant US workers who must be given some means of existence, while denuding other poorer nations of their best brains and strongest arms.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 11:46 AM

The point about the two-tier society is that when people are excluded and cheated their is always a possibility that their perfectly justifiable anger can be diverted and exploited by demagogues who have objectives completely at variance with their interests.

It's not a new phonemenon, it's happened time and time again. And it's happening now.
The way a democracy can counter this is to always ensure that oeople have the chance to change their minds if they wish to and correct their mistakes.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 10:28 AM

the "two tier society" which propelled Donald-John to the Presidency

Um- Ake, your hero Trump is one of the prime architects, supporters, and perpetrators of the "two tier society" which you lament. Ditto his cabinet of billionaire deplorables.

Are you really so thick that you can't see this?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 08:47 AM

As I have repeated, once Trump has his own Reichstag fire, all bets are off regarding saving Democracy from the clutches of a Trump like figure from the great violence and loss of life in yet another war to end all wars.

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. Right now he does not have the credibility to pull it off but he may rush headlong into chaos anyway.

If he does, healthcare will be the least of our problems.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 08:31 AM

Ake you are on the brink of knowing what Kari Mark knew. It is a two tiered society by design. We have a handful of families in the US with as much wealth as all the rest of the people in America. Yes we have built islands of poverty which concentrate the poor by the banks and feel the might of the police, justice system and even the National Guard to control the violence born of oppression. They are our ghettos.
We built them and bypassed them. Yes they are scary. In America they were built for racist reasons. A colony inside a nation.

The poor are still consumers and act like an engine to capitalize the rich. There are newer more profitable engines of wealth that have evolved which use capital itself to create virtual money. Flash trades, hedge, bundled securities etc. These methods create and make nothing except more virtual money for the rich. Still the fundamentals of lying cheating and stealing apply..

Yes a new ideology is needed but for now the rich con man and corporation capture the imagination of the poor which is anathema to their own self interest.

We can dream of a utopia but the need and greed pf a sociopathic wealthy class will spend half their fortune to keep the current system. Still the power of 7 billion people to 20,000 wealthy elite need to compromise. Can we do it without killing ourselves and the Earth?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 07:44 AM

Given Trump's latest Obamacare fiasco, surely it's a matter of time before he is forced to hang up his boots and take a (Golden) shower
How long can this farce continue?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 03:45 AM

"It would be interesting if someone would actually address my point about the "two tier society""
Bit of a nerve from someone who refuses to justify his support for this political thug and ignores every piece of erratic and repressive extremist act hi is single-handedly attempting to push through.
Trump has no interest in changing society - only in milking it for his own personal interests and gratification - he is a businessman who is attempting to turn the presidency into a business asset as he did with his CHARITIES
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 03:09 AM

It would be interesting if someone would actually address my point about the "two tier society" which propelled Donald-John to the Presidency and the UK to leave the EU monolith.

Please don't talk about "democracy" Mr McGrath while this issue continues to exist.

I have travelled extensively in inner city areas and many of the housing schemes of central Scotland where the huge gap between the social and political elite who write on these pages and the jobless, hopeless and often criminal underclass is frighteningly apparent.

Is this situation acceptable? Should it be allowed to continue and worsen? Is it time for ideological change?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 10:25 PM

The job of an opposition is not just "to hold the Government to account". That is part of it. But it also has a duty to do what it can to prevent it doing things which it believes are wrong.

Today it appears that at least for the time being the opposition in the American Congress made up of the official Democratic opposition and also of a sufficient number of Republicans were able to frustrate a central policy of the newly elected President. Not criticise it, or "hold it to account", but blow it out of the water. That's an opposition doing what it's there for.

In the sequel to the Brexit referendum we've had the constant chorus that the job of those who see Brexit as a wrong thing to do should accept it as a done deal, and content ourselves with frittering away at the details. The assumption is that if you lose a vote you should accept it as final - an assumption that runs dead against the fundamental principal of democracy, and of any healthy society, which is that when a continuing disagreement arises both parties are free continue to seek to change the views of the other, but only by peaceful methods.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 09:12 PM

trum gains weight
before


after

will his heart make it.

Vegas odds are around 2 years until attack


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 08:57 PM

Donald threw a tantrum on Air Force that caused Secret Service to draw their guns. Donald had banned Mexican food on Air Force One that put a crimp on the Plane's menu. Twice he had steak for lunch and then once again the choice was fish or steak during his flight to Wisconsin.

He complained and was told that steak was replacing enchiladas and he blew up feeling he was being blamed. He shouted " I am sick of these motherfuckin steaks on this motherfuckin plane!"
Secret service thought they heard the word snakes and drew their guns... ;^)

since then people say he is a lot like Jackson,
Samuel Jackson.


ITS A JOKE AKE

I approve of the aforementioned joke
Donald


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 08:00 PM

the job of a political opposition to hold the Government to account, disruptive campaigns by sore losers ....

"sore losers" knows no boundaries, but favours the assertive, the blinkered, the cerebrally deficient and those arguing with anyone and everyone except the one person they can't**. And when the cap fits be sure it doesn't fall over yer eyes PAL!

**usually an ex-boss, ex-spouse or dead parent.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 04:58 PM

interestingly the Trump style immigrant ban wouldn't have stopped the westminster terrorist attack - done by an idiot from Kent called Adrian.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 01:12 PM

Y"Foaming at the mouth"

Not just "the liberal elite", aken. You can foam with the best yourself...

Those attacking Trump include some shady cold warriors and over privileged characters, but it's pretty well inevitable that when there's a majority consensus against him that will include all sorts. Yes, "majority consensus", even in the States. - remember a lot more people voted against Trump than for him, and opinion polls showing overwhelming opposition to his heallthcare "reform" plan would seem to indicate that a lot of those who voted for him must be feeling they got it wrong by now.

And outside the States about the only other people who seem to admire Trump are. Nigel Farage, Katiie Hopkins. (No, not Putin - I think it can be taken as read that he thoroughly despises Donald Trump, and would class him in that hallowed Kremlin category of "useful idiots")

There's an odd development sometimes in which, when people have been driven to make a choice between two evils, they can seem to drift into changing to cease to recognise as evil the choice they picked on as the lesser evil, and from tolerating it drift into becoming enthused by it. It's a kind of Stockholm syndrome, in which people fall in love with their captors.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 12:43 PM

"It is the job of a political opposition to hold the Government to account,"
It would appear that, thanks to the opposition of his own party to his health programme, the republicans have taken on that task
Your snide remarks do you no credit Ake
This man has become a menace to his own party.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 12:29 PM

disruptive campaigns by sore losers is a different matter altogethe

Suggest you take that up with the Republicans in the House and Senate from 2008 through 2016 Ake.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 11:45 AM

We are truly living in a time of ferment. And fermentation often does not smell good. Trump has been accurately identified as a BS artist. I've thought so since well before his election. Fareed Zakariah on his GPS show made the exact same observations as I had using the philosophical paper published by Frankfurt: "On Bullshit". One of the most explicable points being made that the bullshitter has a more flexible relationship with "truth' than the liar.
My concerns with our situation go far beyond the mere office of the Presidency. For many years now the Republicans have had a flexible relationship with external reality. I remember two elections ago during a Republican primary debate when the moderator asked them how many believed in Creationism and all of them raised their hands. Whether or not that was a gesture of genuine belief or more likely a kowtowing to their bases, it was to me a genuinely scary sign of the state of our country.
It IS a sign, however, that we are democratically sourcing the rather pitiful assemblage of Republican deplorables who are doing their best to turn the clock of progress back on itself.
Meanwhile, Russia's effort at democracy is foundering badly in nationalism and violence, both inwardly and outwardly. It is entirely appropriate to identify the extent of Putin's reach across the globe. A lot of it is simply vicious and damaging, as if he is simply trying to see how big a bastard he can be.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 11:08 AM

It is the job of a political opposition to hold the Government to account, disruptive campaigns by sore losers is a different matter altogether.

Whether or not you volunteer your services for the post in question is entirely up to you Greg......but try to avoid the California or New York areas.....too much competition. :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 10:23 AM

every obstruction possible including disruption of the political system through obstructive campaigns

Rather like what the Republicans did to Obama every minute of his presidency, Ake?

Does anyone know of a village that is actively recruiting for an idiot? We might be able to help them find one.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 05:52 AM

TED talk: Who would the rest of the world vote for in your country's elections
An interesting set of results. (DJT in third place!). And it doesn't hint at any Russian votes finding their way in! Give it time.........


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 04:07 AM

Say what you will, at least Reagan had Nancy to compare notes with.
And wasn't Dubya's wife a Democrat?

With Melania in NY, all Twitler has is Putin.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 03:39 AM

I think a village somewhere is missing its idiot...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 03:17 AM

Just after the President was elected, one of our foremost "liberals" suggested that "We just drive him out of his mind"....By this the "liberal" meant that every obstruction possible including disruption of the political system through obstructive campaigns like flooding the postal services with junk mail...this before the President had a chance to put any of the policies that he had promised the electorate into place.

This sort of action makes a mockery of the democratic process
and the sore losers who practice it are a disgrace.

For once in my lifetime an elected leader is trying to implement the policies on which he was elected and he is greeted with derision by a small but powerful "elite" backed by a corrupt and biased media.
Sometimes I wonder if any members of this "elite" like most of the people who post here, know or care a fig about the millions who for one millisecond, have found a voice, a conduit in President Donal-
John.
This same "elite" that can be observed foaming at the mouth in numerous threads here, have no respect for their fellow countrymen, they openly insult their intelligence, they look down on their lack of "liberalism" or academic ability, they hate their brothers and sisters for daring to reject their ideology of myth, an ideology which has sapped the strength from a once great nation and left in its stead a whining, childish cabal refusing to accept responsibility even for the loss of a completely legal democratic election.

I used to have the idea that the American people could be the saviours of humanity, what I supposed to be their endless optimism, their belief in democracy, their respect for high political office has proved to have been a sham.....they are simply just like us, spoiled children raised in a time when no sacrifices were required provided we were enrolled into the academic elite and born on the right side of the tracks.....manual labour has become a dirty joke, a sign of mental deficiency, but don't forget what happened the last time the tumbril wheels rumbled, the "elite" political and social should keep an ear to the ground.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 07:46 PM

Boring he is not. He is known for being profane and hyper excited over minor incidents.

Donald threw a tantrum on Air Force that caused Secret Service to draw their guns. Donald had banned Mexican food on Air Force One that put a crimp on the Planes menu. Twice he had steak for lunch and then once again the choice was fish or steak during his flight to Wisconsin.

He complained and was told that steak was replacing enchiladas and he blew up feeling he was being blamed. He shouted " I am tired of these motherfuckin steaks on this motherfuckin plane!"
Secret service thought they heard the word snakes and drew their guns... ;^)

since then people say he is a lot like Jackson, Samuel Jackson.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Stanron
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 07:10 PM

Good Soldier Schweik wrote: Trump is a boring old fart
Best judgement so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 06:33 PM

Trump is a boring old fart


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 06:00 PM

uneducated, ignorant, unable to discern fact from fiction

Which is where the opening post came in! :-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 03:06 PM

[Reagan] How can a person so old and confused be the president?...
then bush - how can someone so ignorant be the president?



Easy peasy! - uneducated, ignorant, unable to discern fact from fiction electorate.

Then as now.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 12:56 PM

we'll have to see, i suppose. its just a feeling i've got about the situation.

i seem to remember people saying about Reagan - how can a person so old and confused be the president?

then bush - how can someone so ignorant be the president?

they not only were the president. they got re-elected.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 11:15 AM

The "piece of dirt" is filling a position he shouldn't be in. Not too hard for me to figure that out.

I was active duty military for a long time. The President is Commander in Chief, and ... let's just say if I were in now, I'd probably end up being Court Martialed. Hard enough with GWB, but the stupid people who thought he'd be a good President maybe didn't think that the western version of the insane Kim Jong-un was going to be able to order their children to go die and kill other people's children for insulting him.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 11:06 AM

Americans' reverence for the office didn't save Nixon, whose criminal activities were far less overt than Twit's have been throughout his public life, in fact, it's likely their respect for that office hastened his downfall.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 10:54 AM

The office is worthy of respect.

I've never been quite sure how that is supposed to work out as a practical matter particularly when, as now, the incumbent is a piece of dirt.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 10:40 AM

No, Al. The office is worthy of respect. Trump isn't. And when you say "the yanks", I'm assuming you know more of them than I do, because the ones at Mudcat (where British people talk about American politics) don't fit your statement, and many of the ones NOT on Mudcat and who voted for the other candidate don't either.

I suspect, like pretty much all of us, it can be easy to form opinions based on what some talking head on the TV concludes and spreads. If you only watch Fox, you get a very different picture than if you watch MSNBC or NPR, and if you get your news from some other source who uses one or more of those channels as their source, who knows. If you get it from the internet, you only get information from sources you choose to click on, and you won't get anything that challenges your beliefs.

Just saying don't trust any one source, and question what your opinions are based on.

Watch Live: House hearing on Russia's involvement in the 2016 election (on NPR)


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 10:08 AM

i'm not getting at anything - i just think that the way Americans revere the office of President will probably see Trump through - however crazy things get.

Because frankly things are pretty crazy already.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 09:12 AM

Russia is always the big bogy-bear threatening to eat us all up.

Ask the people about that big bogy-bear in Hungary,Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Austria, Poland, the Baltic States, Finland etc, etc, - Russiaphobes all I'm sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 09:10 AM

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at Big AL but I'll wager that a majority of Americans, myself included, have more respect for the office than Twitler.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 08:57 AM

CNN report: US officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians.

So, it again begs Schumer's question: Why are we vetting a Supreme Court candidate during an investigation of the Presidency? The kind of investigation that will result in his impeachment. He isn't going to be in office much longer.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 08:54 AM

Satan implants or Satanplants as we commonly call them, are making it hard to distinguish the bad guys from the evil guys.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 08:52 AM

I didn't know Ozzie Osbourne did brain implants. I think the USA would be better off with him though...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 08:46 AM

the thing is - one thing i've noticed.

when someone gets elected and called Mr President - however strange the holder of the office, Americans do tend to respect them.
Far more than we respect a Prime Minister, or even the monarch.

even if they prove Trump has a brain implant arranged by the prince of darkness, most yanks will regard the office with respect.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 08:44 AM

edit: 100 megatons and more...


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 08:44 AM

Russiaphobes

Good grief!


Nothing wrong with that term. There's a lot of it about, and has been since Victorian times, at least. It doesn't really have much to do with politics either. Regardless of what kind of regime is in charge - Tsarist, Stalinist, Putinist or what-have-you - Russia is always the big bogy-bear threatening to eat us all up.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 08:41 AM

hey Donnie, its called the party of Lincoln.
"Really, well a lot of people don't know about Fredrick Douglas making a comeback either."

______________________________________________

Russiaphobes?

I am not afraid of Russians. Russians are afraid of Russia.
Especially Putin dissidents.

What does that say of Americans afraid of Trump.


Russia has a history of going BIG.
An unfortunate example of their weaponry is that their nuclear weapons of 1100 megatons or more are so powerful there is no place on Earth hey can be tested. For their cold war number two punch after a 1st strike, they had stock piled over 100 ton of weaponized smallpox virus to be delivered to kill survivors.

They now spend more military money on tactical Info war.
They went big on America media but many people think it was Real news and not intentionally fake. As a hypnotist I admit they made a great weapon.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 08:13 AM

This is germaine to the discussion:

Lincoln was a Republican, slavery is bad — and more discoveries by President Obvious
By Dana Milbank
March 22, 2017 at 5:01 PM

Seeking and winning the presidency has been a magical voyage of discovery for Donald Trump.

Tuesday night, he divulged a most remarkable finding: Abraham Lincoln was — are you sitting down for this? — a Republican.

"Most people don't even know he was a Republican," Trump told a group of Republicans.

Trump's discoveries of seemingly obvious things raise two possibilities: 1) He thinks people are awfully stupid, or 2) he is discovering for himself things the rest of us already knew. Which is true? Nobody knows.


Or 3): he's just an ignorant fucki*g moron.

whole article HERE and worth reading.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 07:59 AM

Russiaphobes

Good grief!


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 07:06 AM

Like Ake I too am disappointed in Americans like Bannon (Chief President advisor) who has vowed to deconstruct government and democracy.

Have you noticed that fearless leader has gained 30 lbs?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 06:18 AM

The fight is being managed by House and Senate Democrats in slow motion. The full story of assisting Russia hacks and info info war bots has been introduced first. The Next phase are the number of Trump surrogates directly involved. The third scandal of Trump trading an oil deal for assisting Russia will be the full trifecta.

This I have outlined in detail months ago. The Congressional investigation committee must go to a special prosecutor. If this fails we are in deep trouble but not defeated by the clear and present domestic enemies.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Mar 17 - 04:36 AM

I tried posting something and it got hacked (probably by Serge from the FSB)

Twitler is firing so many volleys in all directions, including some "you too" lies.

So where do his detractors go to fight the mess?

It is a classic divide and conquer stratagem. Brutal, blitzkrieg, and ....................

History repeats itself. Yea, yea, it is different, but so much is the same! Which is why history has to repeat itself. Till we get it right!


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 09:55 PM

And that's the worry, Greg. The man is an unpredictable nut. So I'm rather hoping the Kremlin has the rumoured sex tapes of Trump to keep him on side, rather on just relying on his business interests.

If he should join in with the chorus of Russiaphobes we're getting from all around, and start hyping it up Trump style, God help us.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 09:08 PM

Now that Mannifort is known to have taken 10 million bucks a year from Putin's best friend billionaire to rig the American election and aid Russia, this is when Ake must stop watching the news, fake or otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 09:00 PM

Hell, I don't live in Europe and I'M very concerned.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 08:40 PM

If I lived in Europe I'd be very concerned over Twit's ties to Putin and his disdainful attitude toward NATO.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 08:07 PM

Only problem with that analysis, Kevin, is that you assume that Trump is mentally stable, consistent, reliable, and a man of his word. He could, and would, turn on Russia in a New York nanosecond. Stay tuned for his nex twat.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 07:55 PM

Actually the idea of Trump being tied up with Russia is the only bright spark in the Trump presidency. It makes the danger of a blow-up with Russia and a war seem less likely.

If Trump was actively hostile to Russia, that would be a lot more terrifying.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Helen
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 01:33 PM

Hi all,

I've been keeping up to date on the latest factual information on DJ Trump (that means you won't be interested in this, ake) written by Paul McGeough

See a list of articles by Paul McGeough

As you can see, the investigation into the links with Russia has now been announced, but no conclusions have yet been reached, so ake's statements in the original post of this thread on 20 Mar 17 - 08:17 AM "Well my goodness, it really was all fake news...surprise surprise!" and on 21 Mar 17 - 05:42 PM "Well there you are, no evidence of any link between The President DJ and Russia" are pre-emptive, i.e. jumping the gun, trying to create an illusion of an outcome with no facts to back up his statements because the outcome is still unknown. What a surprise, ake.

If you keep saying it over and over and over again, it must be true, eh? What Greg F said: 22 Mar 17 - 09:38 AM

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 01:14 PM

From reason and reality, Professor.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 11:43 AM

Where are you from Greg?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 17 - 09:38 AM

Apparently not only "Americans": I give you Ake.....


"Americans have reached a point where ignorance, especially of anything related to public policy, is an actual virtue," the scholar Tom Nichols writes in his timely new book, "The Death of Expertise." "To reject the advice of experts is to assert autonomy, a way for Americans to insulate their increasingly fragile egos from ever being told they're wrong about anything. It is a new Declaration of Independence: No longer do we hold these truths to be self-evident, we hold all truths to be self-evident, even the ones that aren't true. All things are knowable and every opinion on any subject is as good as any other."


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 10:06 PM

Rachel Maddow had a blockbuster expose' on the Russian Trump connection regarding Russian Info War publications and FBI investigation into the role that Russian Info war bots played in the election. Fascinating.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 06:07 PM

A man by the name of Steele from the UK gave the US a dossier regarding Trump that makes many links to Russia and Trump.
So far they check out -except for the golden showers. And I don't mean gold fixtures.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 05:51 PM

You're the bad loser. You screwed up here and now you're bitter. Americans, I humbly offer my sincere apologies for this person's continuing ignorance and imbecility. I am, of course, mortally embarrassed that he lives on the same tectonic plate as I do. Same plate, though, paradoxically, a different planet.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 05:42 PM

Well there you are, no evidence of any link between The President DJ and Russia.   How long has this "investigation" been going on?

I would have voted Trump against Clinton any day and it looks like the American people thought the same, although Clinton got slightly more votes a huge number of people had lost confidence or interest in the whole charade.....and most of these people would be most unlikely to vote for an establishment figure in any circumstances.

If they were to be persuaded it would be by the "populist".

I am extremely disappointed in the attitude of the Americans here regarding the democratic process, I though you were a positive people who believed in fairness, so much better than we UKers...seems I was wrong and the American "elite" are just a carbon copy of our own, whining, childish ideological bad losers.....:0(


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 05:22 PM

You are correct SIR

I hear better than I read.

I imagine better than I hear.

my latest cartoon- "Zeke, it looks like Republicans hitched all their horses to Trump's wagon" "Yup, jus needs a push"
(The wagon says health care and has square wheels)


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 04:48 PM

Sorry, Don. I did see it, but I prefer people actually speaking a speech. Audible vs visual. I figured folks might like to hear it for themselves, but yours is right there for folks who'd rather read it.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 04:03 PM

Jeri you don't read the thread either?


Trump is a surprisingly bad liar but you know what they say.
Its not a lie if you appear to believe it.

the new religion:

OBEY THE DONALD
BELIEVE THE BANNON wants to deconstruct democracy
TRUST THE RUSSIANS
and
BUY IVANKA

what a world


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 03:35 PM

he is crudely bad at when he has chosen to do.

Actually, he's been crudely bad at everything he's chosen to do his entire life - multiple bankruptcies, stiffing creditors, running ponzi schemes and fake universities & on & on.....


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 01:01 PM

Rep. Adam Schiff's opening statements during the open hearing of the House Intelligence Committee's investigation of the Russian interference in our elections


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 12:16 PM

With the current rejectsion of his accusations that British security haved into the election campaign, it gets more and more difficulty to understand why Trum has involved himself in politics - he is crudely bad at when he has chosen to do.
Maybe we're misjudging him - perhaps he looks on it as a business venture and is using the kudos his position brings to further his business ends.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 17 - 05:22 AM

ABC (Alex-Jones Brietbart Conspiracies)

Just in...

Trump Tweet; Obama Saran-Wrapped White House toilets! "sad, disgusting and McCarthyesque".

__________________________


Ake is either having a go at you all or is more hypnotized than he realized by the Alt Right Alt-Sites.

Just like the BS artist Trump, it is a little bit of both.

If Ake is addicted to the Alt right news sites, he will be unable to not access them for 4o days. If that is the case he is lost to his own opinion. His mind is not his own any longer. Sympathize.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 09:02 PM

SCHIFF:
Let me give you a short preview of what I expect you'll be asked by our members. Whether the Russian active measures campaign began as nothing more than an attempt to gather intelligence or was always intended to be more than that, we do not know and is one of the questions we hope to answer. But we do know this; the months of July and August 2016 appear to have been pivotal.

It was at this time the Russians began using the information they had stolen to help Donald Trump and harm Hillary Clinton. And so the question is, why? What was happening in July, August of last year and were U.S. persons involved? Here are some of the matters drawn from public sources alone since that is all we can discuss in this setting that concern us and we believe should concern all Americans.

In early July, Carter Page, someone candidate Trump identified as one of his national security advisors, travels to Moscow on a trip approved by the Trump campaign. While in Moscow, he gives a speech critical of the United States and other western countries for what he believes is a hypocritical focus on democratization and efforts to fight corruption.

According to Christopher Steele, a British — a former British intelligence officer, who is reportedly held in high regard by U.S. intelligence, Russian sources tell him that Page has also had a secret meeting with Igor Sechin, CEO of the Russian gas giant, Rosneft. Sechin is reported to be a former KGB agent and close friend of Putin's.

According to Steele's Russian sources, Page is offered brokerage fees by such an on a deal involving a 19 percent share of the company. According to Reuters, the sale of a 19.5 percent share of Rosneft later takes place with unknown purchasers and unknown brokerage fees. Also, according to Steele's Russian sources, the campaign has offered documents damaging to Hillary Clinton which the Russians would publish through an outlet that gives them deniability like WikiLeaks.

The hacked documents would be in exchange for a Trump administration policy that de-emphasizes Russia's invasion of Ukraine and instead focuses on criticizing NATO countries for not paying their fair share. Policies which even as recently as the President's meeting last week with Angela Merkel have now presently come to pass. In the middle of July, Paul Manafort, the — the Trump campaign manager and someone who was a long on the payroll of Pro Russian- Ukrainian interests attends the Russian — the Republican Party Convention. Carter Page, back from Moscow, also attends the convention. According to Steele, it was Manafort who chose Page to serve as a go-between for the Trump campaign and Russian interests.

Ambassador Kislyak, who presides over a Russian Embassy in which diplomatic personnel would later be expelled as likely spies, also attends the Republican Party Convention and meets with Carter Page, and additional Trump advisors J.D. Gordon and Walid Phares. It was J.D. Gordon who approved Page's trip to Moscow.

Ambassador Kislyac also meets with Trump national campaign chair, National Security Campaign Chair and now attorney general, Jeff Sessions. Sessions would later deny meeting with Russian officials during his Senate confirmation hearing. Just prior to the convention, the Republican Party platform is changed, removing a section that supports the provision of lethal defensive weapons to Ukraine, an action that would be contrary to Russian interests.

Manafort categorically denies involvement by the Trump campaign and altering the platform, but the Republican Party delegate who offered the language in support of providing defensive weapons to Ukraine states it was removed at the insistence of the Trump campaign. Later, J.D. Gordon admits opposing the inclusion of the provision of the time it was being debated and prior to its being removed.

Later in July and after the convention, the first stolen emails detrimental to Hillary Clinton appear on WikiLeaks. A hacker who goes by the moniker, Guccifer 2.0, claims responsibility for hacking the DNC and giving the documents to WikiLeaks. A leading private cyber security firms including Crowdstrike, Mandiant and ThreatConnect review the evidence of the hack and conclude with high certainty that it was the work of APT 28 and APT 29 who are known to be Russian intelligence services.

The U.S. intelligence committee also later confirms that the documents were in fact stolen by Russian intelligence and Guccifer 2.0 acted as a front. Also in late July, candidate Trump praises WikiLeaks, says he loves them and openly appeals to the Russians to hack his opponents emails telling them that they will be richly rewarded by the press.

On August 8th, Roger Stone, a long time Trump political advisor and self-proclaimed political dirty trickster, boasts in his speech that he has communicated with Assange and that more documents would be coming, including an October surprise. In the middle of August, he also communicates with the Russian cut out Guccifer 2.0 and authors a Breitbart piece denying Guccifer's links to Russian intelligence.

Then later, in August, Stone does something truly remarkable. When he predicts that John Podesta's personal emails will soon be published, trust me he says, it will soon be Podesta's time in the barrel, #crookedHillary. In the weeks that follow, Stone shows remarkable prescience. I have total confidence that WikiLeaks and my hero, Julian Assange will educate the American people soon, he says, #LockHerUp. Payload coming, he predicts and two days later it does.

WikiLeaks releases its first batch of Podesta emails. The release of John Podesta's emails would then continue on a daily basis, up until the election. On Election Day in November, Donald Trump wins. Donald Trump appoints one of his high-profile surrogates, Michael Flynn, to be his national security advisor. Michael Flynn has been paid by the Kremlin's propaganda outfit RT in the past, as well as another Russian entity.

In December, Michael Flynn has a secret conversation with Ambassador Kislyak, about sanctions imposed by President Obama on Russia over attacking designed to help the Trump campaign. Michael Flynn lies about the secret conversation. The vice president unknowingly then assures the country that no — no such conversation ever happened. The president is informed that Flynn has lied and Pence has misled the country. The president does nothing.

Two weeks later, the press reveals that Flynn has lied and the president is forced to fire Mr. Flynn. The president then praises the man who lied, Mr. Flynn, and castigates the press for exposing the lie.

Now, is it possible that the removal of the Ukraine provision from the GOP platform was a coincidence? Is it a coincidence that Jeff Sessions failed to tell the Senate about his meetings with a Russian ambassador, not only at the convention, but a more private meeting in his office and at a time when the U.S. election was under attack by the Russians?

Is it a coincidence that Michael Flynn would lie about a conversation he had with the same Russian Ambassador Kislyak, about the most pressing issue facing both countries at the time they spoke, the U.S. imposition of sanctions over Russian hacking of our election designed to help Donald Trump? Is it a coincidence that the Russian gas company, Rosneft, sold a 19 percent share after former British intelligence officer Steele was told by Russian sources that Carter Page was offered fees on a deal of just that size?

Is it a coincidence that Steele's Russian sources also affirmed that Russian had stolen documents hurtful to Secretary Clinton that it would utilize in exchange for Pro Russian policies that would later come to pass? Is it a coincidence that Roger Stone predicted that John Podesta would be a victim of a Russian hack and have his private emails published and did so even before Mr. Podesta himself, was fully aware that his private emails would be exposed?

Is it possible that all of these events and reports are completely unrelated and nothing more than an entirely unhappy coincidence? Yes, it is possible. But it is also possible, maybe more than possible, that they are not coincidental, not disconnected and not unrelated and that the Russians use the same techniques to corrupt U.S. persons that they employed in Europe and elsewhere. We simply don't know, not yet. And we owe it to the country to find out.


COMEY:
As you know, our practice is not to confirm the existence of ongoing investigations, especially those investigations that involve classified matters, but in unusual circumstances where it is in the public interest, it may be appropriate to do so as Justice Department policies recognize. This is one of those circumstances.

I have been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts. As with any counterintelligence investigation, this will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed.

Because it is an open ongoing investigation and is classified, I cannot say more about what we are doing and whose conduct we are examining. At the request of congressional leaders, we have taken the extraordinary step in coordination with the Department of Justice of briefing this Congress' leaders, including the leaders of this committee, in a classified setting in detail about the investigation but I can't go into those details here. I know that is extremely frustrating to some folks. I hope you and the American people can understand. The FBI is very careful in how we handle information about our cases and about the people we are investigating.

We are also very careful about the way we handle information that may be of interest to our foreign adversaries. Both of those interests are at issue in a counterintelligence investigation. Please don't draw any conclusions from the fact that I may not be able to comment on certain topics. I know speculating is part of human nature, but it really isn't fair to draw conclusions simply because I say that I can't comment.



Long story short;

Whats up?
Can't say


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 05:29 PM

How Ake gets it (if one reads this whole thread) is he goes back to October. My guess that this thread was started because Ake didn't notice the date either, or maybe didn't care.

Whatever.

There's too much smoke here for there to be no fire. I'd predict though, that this will involve some individuals falling on their swords in order to protect Trump. I hope not, but that's what I see happening.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 05:16 PM

Comey said he can't reveal the findings of an uncompleted investigation, so we won't get definitive answers....

Didn't seem to bother him when he was screwing Hillary tho, did it, Joe??


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 05:11 PM

It was a very odd time to pick to start this thread, just hours before the matter was to be before the committee. I'd be interested in hearing why ake decided not to wait a few hours.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 05:00 PM

Comey said he can't reveal the findings of an uncompleted investigation, so we won't get definitive answers from the FBI yet.
Makes one wonder how Ake (and Trump) get such definitive information....
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 01:29 PM

Ake's just channelling his hero Hump.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 10:46 AM

"I have been authorized by the DoJ to confirm that the FBI.. is investigating the Russian government's attempts to interfere in the 2016 election... that includes any links between the Trump campaign... this will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed."- James Comey at 10:34 A.M. this morning in The House Intelligence Panel.

It appears that the only "fake news" revealed in this thread was provided by the OP in his first sentence.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 10:01 AM

Just Ake being Ake. Don't try to change his mind with facts.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Stu
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 09:51 AM

Let's see what Comey says today.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 09:44 AM

Comey Expected to Confirm if FBI is Investigating Trump and Russia


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Subject: RE: BS: No Donal-John/ Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 09:40 AM

So out of touch with CURRENT events. (Trump controlling the "failing" NYT, and the fact that the "news" is old, outdated, and wrong.)

I also find it ironic that the propensity toward cutesy names, mostly used to ridicule people around here, means that not even a Trump lover like Ake can stand calling him by his title and name.

Not even him...


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Subject: RE: BS: No Donal-John/ Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 09:11 AM

Since than the BBC has run a programme showing Trum meeting with Russian officials and also dealing with Trump's business dealings with the Russian Mafia - including employing a Mafia assassin on the books of one of his companies.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: No Donal-John/ Russia link (FBI)
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 08:42 AM

Note the date of the article that you did not provide a link for, Oct.31.2016.

plus "From the New York Times(Trump controlled rag)" WTF is that?

Better clean up your act if your going to go to bat for a schlump like Donal-Jerk.


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Subject: BS: No Donal-John/ Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Mar 17 - 08:17 AM

Well my goodness, it really was all fake news...surprise surprise!

From the New York Times(Trump controlled rag)

WASHINGTON — For much of the summer, the F.B.I. pursued a widening investigation into a Russian role in the American presidential campaign. Agents scrutinized advisers close to Donald J. Trump, looked for financial connections with Russian financial figures, searched for those involved in hacking the computers of Democrats, and even chased a lead — which they ultimately came to doubt — about a possible secret channel of email communication from the Trump Organization to a Russian bank.

Law enforcement officials say that none of the investigations so far have found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Trump and the Russian government. And even the hacking into Democratic emails, F.B.I. and intelligence officials now believe, was aimed at disrupting the presidential election rather than electing Mr. Trump.


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