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BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!

Raggytash 12 Apr 17 - 09:07 AM
Teribus 12 Apr 17 - 08:23 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Apr 17 - 07:57 AM
Stu 12 Apr 17 - 07:17 AM
Iains 12 Apr 17 - 04:06 AM
akenaton 12 Apr 17 - 03:10 AM
Teribus 12 Apr 17 - 01:46 AM
Greg F. 11 Apr 17 - 08:10 PM
bobad 11 Apr 17 - 06:47 PM
Greg F. 11 Apr 17 - 06:36 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 17 - 09:01 AM
Teribus 11 Apr 17 - 08:14 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Apr 17 - 05:37 PM
bobad 10 Apr 17 - 05:18 PM
Bonzo3legs 10 Apr 17 - 10:53 AM
Teribus 10 Apr 17 - 01:48 AM
Greg F. 09 Apr 17 - 04:48 PM
akenaton 09 Apr 17 - 01:53 PM
Greg F. 09 Apr 17 - 10:39 AM
akenaton 09 Apr 17 - 03:57 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Apr 17 - 03:24 AM
Teribus 08 Apr 17 - 11:16 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 17 - 07:00 PM
Teribus 08 Apr 17 - 06:01 PM
Iains 08 Apr 17 - 05:19 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 17 - 03:16 PM
Iains 08 Apr 17 - 01:25 PM
Iains 08 Apr 17 - 01:24 PM
Iains 08 Apr 17 - 01:13 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 17 - 10:54 AM
Iains 08 Apr 17 - 10:12 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 17 - 09:31 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 17 - 09:10 AM
akenaton 08 Apr 17 - 08:52 AM
Iains 08 Apr 17 - 07:16 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 17 - 06:45 AM
akenaton 08 Apr 17 - 06:29 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 17 - 04:33 AM
akenaton 08 Apr 17 - 04:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Apr 17 - 04:02 AM
akenaton 08 Apr 17 - 03:52 AM
Teribus 08 Apr 17 - 03:52 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 17 - 03:28 AM
Iains 08 Apr 17 - 03:18 AM
Greg F. 07 Apr 17 - 04:09 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 17 - 02:03 PM
Iains 07 Apr 17 - 01:42 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 17 - 01:15 PM
Greg F. 07 Apr 17 - 12:48 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Apr 17 - 11:45 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 09:07 AM

Anyone any good with a paint brush and roller. I have to decorate the hall, landing, stairs, bathroom and one bedroom before Wednesday when the carpet fitters arrive !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 08:23 AM

Syrian Chemical Attack:

Undoubtedly carried out by Assad's forces with the collusion, and therefore, prior knowledge of the Russians. Nobody was supposed to know about it. Russian drones monitored where the injured were being taken and then that hospital was then subjected to attack in an attempt to destroy all evidence.

Why would they do it? Two reasons as far as Putin and the Assad regime goes:

1: Because they thought that they'd get away with it and that US reaction would be similar to that of the Obama Administration in 2012

2: It would seriously intimidate the rebels and might shorten resistance in the area.

Syrian Chemical Attack - the US response:

The US gave Russia advanced warning of their intended strike, that allowed the Russians and Assad sufficient time to move anything from the declared target area. The strike was a warning and only a warning, it was not meant to "destroy" anything, it was meant to provide a demonstration of what might follow any further use of chemical weapons. In that I believe that President Trump got his message home, but to confirm that we will have to wait and see. Very embarrassing for Russia whose anti-missile Growler system failed to intercept any of the US Tomahawks even although they had prior warning and knew what their target was.

Anti-Semitism Definition:
Exists now in law. Shaw's, Raggy's Gnome's, Greg F's or indeed anyone else's opinions are irrelevant.

As recommended by Chakrabarti - No-one who is a member of the Labour party can be banned from the Party for life for expressing any racist views (Includes anti-Semitism) - doubt that read her report and her conclusions all adopted by Labour's NEC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 07:57 AM

Pretty stupid post, Teribus. No-one in the Labour Party to my knowledge has denied the Holocaust, to my mind one of the most disgusting hate crimes there is. Why don't you wait until you have something to say before you post?


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Stu
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 07:17 AM

"I am waiting to hear some evidence that the Assad regime used chemical weapons for no apparent purpose other than to bring down world opinion against them."

Given there are eyewitness accounts of Syrian jets dropping the bombs with gas in, including a report by a Channel 4 News reporter I would suggest the onus is on you to prove who else might have done it, given none of the opposition figures (including ISIS) have aircraft.

As for why, Assad misjudged, plain and simple. He's got the Russians backing him and he calculated without Trump's idiocy, unpredictability and astonishing hypocrisy; Trump has repeatedly tweeted against the US getting involved in Syria, condemned Obama when he looked like he might get the US involved and even last week was saying it was sod all to do with them.

It's not the US strike that's disturbing, it's having a total fucking idiot in charge of the US military.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 04:06 AM

Or as someone else has eloquently stated:-

"It doesn't take a military analyst to grasp that the American attack on a remote Syrian airfield contradicts every possible military rationale. If America really believed that Assad possessed a WMD stockpile and kept it in al-Shayrat airbase, launching a missile attack that could lead to a release of lethal agents into the air would be the last thing it would do. If America was determined to 'neutralise' Assad's alleged 'WMD ability' it would deploy special forces or diplomacy. No one defuses WMD with explosives, bombs or cruise missiles. It is simply unheard of."


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 03:10 AM

Greg, I am waiting to hear some evidence that the Assad regime used chemical weapons for no apparent purpose other than to bring down world opinion against them.

As far a I am concerned this course of action makes no sense at all, as the war in Syria against Islamic terrorist was virtually won.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 01:46 AM

Now if Spicer was a member of the Labour Party, under the arrangements arrived at by Labour's NEC courtesy of the Chakrabarti "Whitewash", he would face suspension, not expulsion, until he apologised after which he would be fully reinstated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 08:10 PM

Spicer's no worse than all the rest of the clowns in the Trump clown car, Bo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: bobad
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 06:47 PM

Statement from Steven Goldstein, executive director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect:

"On Passover no less, Sean Spicer has engaged in Holocaust denial, the most offensive of fake news imaginable, by denying Hitler gassed millions of Jews to death. Spicer's statement is the most evil slur upon a group of people we have ever heard from a White House press secretary. Spicer now lacks the integrity to serve as White House press secretary, and President Trump must fire him at once."


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 06:36 PM

Hey Ake! How about your hero Twitler's boy Spicer, eh? What a guy!
Didja know that Hitler didn't use chemical weapons?


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 09:01 AM

Haven't christened it yet. He'll have to wait.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 08:14 AM

Because he probably wants to know what you will be having for tea tonight Shaw.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 05:37 PM

Good sentiment in your first sentence, Bonzo. Then you threw the baby out with the bathwater. Why do you do that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 05:18 PM

From the Associated Press:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States has concluded Russia knew in advance of Syria's chemical weapons attack last week, a senior U.S. official said Monday.

The official said a drone operated by Russians was flying over a hospital as victims of the attack were rushing to get treatment. Hours after the drone left, a Russian-made fighter jet bombed the hospital in what American officials believe was an attempt to cover up the usage of chemical weapons.

The official said the presence of the surveillance drone over the hospital couldn't have been a coincidence, and that Russia must have known the chemical weapons attack was coming and that victims were seeking treatment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 10:53 AM

And quite rightly, almost a state funeral for PC Keith Palmer. It's good to know that raghead scum who murdered him was terminated immediately!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 01:48 AM

"Good heavens Jom, Libya has never, ever been under Ba'ath Party rule"

Arrogant Jom?? Not one bit of it. The above is an example of something you seem mentally programmed not to accept in any shape or form. A simple statement of FACT that directly contradicts and proves false the erroneous information you try to inject into any discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 04:48 PM

Not entirely Greg

Just give him and his crew time, Ake, just give 'em time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 01:53 PM

Not entirely Greg but this attack on Syria without proper investigation strikes me as political opportunism, and in direct opposition to his declared Foreign Policy.

You will have observed that I am not confined by Party loyalties or political ideologies...everything I say on this forum I think hard about and try to deliver sincerely, even when disappointed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 10:39 AM

the American public would have been as well voting for the proven warmonger Clinton.

Gee, Ake, is your buddy Emperor Twitler starting to disrobe?


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 03:57 AM

Regardless of the historical aspect, the problem is that we now seem determined to remove the Syrian government, without whom Syria would now be an ISIS stronghold. No one in power in the West had the desire to get troops involved, presumably because all previous interventions in the ME and NA had ended not only in disaster for the countries involved but poor political ratings for the representatives of the intervening governments.

The veracity of Syrian government involvement in the gassing is yet to be established and there is no sensible or military reason that they should be.
The rhetoric is beginning to look remarkably similar to the lead up into Iraq......lies distortions and exaggerations.

As I said earlier President Trump's "about face" is disappointing and I think opportunistic......the American public would have been as well voting for the proven warmonger Clinton.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 03:24 AM

"Good heavens Jom, Libya has never, ever been under Ba'ath Party rule"
Should have been "influence" not rule of course.
Would apologise if you had not posted your correction in such a typically arrogant manner
Jim Carroll

"The Regional Branch was founded in the 1950s[103] by Amr Taher Deghayes.[104] Ba'athism was a major political force in Libya following the establishment of the United Arab Republic. Many intellectuals were attracted to Ba'athist ideology during the later years of the Kingdom of Libya. However, with help from Nasserist propaganda, several Ba'athists changed affiliation and became Nasserists instead.[105] The growth of these pan-Arab ideologies concerned the government, which led to the incarceration of several Nasserist and Ba'athist military officers in the early sixties.[106] The Ba'athist were accused of working to overthrow "the political, economic and social system" of the Kingdom; the sentences ranged from everything to eight months to two years.[107] By 1964, the Libyan Regional Branch had only managed to establish one-level below the Regional Command, the branch-level.[108] Syrian specialist John Devlin estimated that the Libyan Regional Branch had been 50 and 150 members in 1964.[108]


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 11:16 PM

"under Baath Party rule Libya adopted certain socialist measures which brought improvements that upset the West" - Jom

Good heavens Jom, Libya has never, ever been under Ba'ath Party rule. The only two Arab countries that have experienced the benefits of such a democidal regime have been Iraq and Syria.

By the way, when have I ever evinced support for Assad? Jim Carroll "made-up-shit", another Jim Carroll lie, I knew it wouldn't take very long for a new one to come tumbling out - you just can't seem to help yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 07:00 PM

I neither praise the Baath party, nor do I admire it (You were the one who supported Assad, not me)
I said that under Baath Party rule Libya adopted certain socialist measures which brought improvements that upset the West
Please do not distort what I said – it really is not nice and it's become a permanent feature of your contributions
Take your hiding like a man, if that's not too much to ask for
Having had your arse kicked (once again) on your inventing "lies" I have told (which appear to be consisting of anything I have disagreed with you on which automatically become "lies" (thereby hangs a meglomania) you seem bent on seeking revenge
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 06:01 PM

The Ba'ath Party that Carroll seems so keen on based on two previous regimes - The German Nazi Party (National Socialists) and Stalin's version of communism - they adopted the worst characteristics of each - and Jom applauds them for it. I am not surprised at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 05:19 PM

I would be interested to see your additional thoughts, whenever you get the opportunity to continue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 03:16 PM

"Apologies Jim. attached the wrong link first time around and hit send before finishing."
No problem Iains - I managed to trace the article from the wording
"The problem is that financial and political considerations give no place for humanitarian concerns."
Can't argue with that, but it makes my point.
If a system of government cannot cater for all those it covers it has outlivd its usefulness.
The problem with the Third World is that it has become a source of exploitation for the wealthier ones so the latter fights to oppose any changes that threaten its own financial interests, hence the constant interference in policies that threaten those interests - oil being the major one at present, but plenty more on the way
All major wars are tracable back to this situation, including World War One - a battle between Empires for either protection or expansion of Colonies
The system has reached a point where it can no longer expand without resistance from the exploited groups
In my opinion, that is rapidly becoming teh case with Britain and America - Isolationist policies and massive increases in gaps between haves and have nots
Sorry
Not going to be able to continue this - off to Dublin tomorrow
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 01:25 PM

Apologies Jim. attached the wrong link first time around and hit send before finishing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 01:24 PM

https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/170/41931.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 01:13 PM

Well Jim, for once we actually have some common ground. You make some points I do not dispute.
The problem is that financial and political considerations give no place for humanitarian concerns.In fact the former two tend to militate against it. The link is quite old, but illustrates the point well

https://www.globalpolicy.org/un-reform.html

The globalists seem unconcerned by the human cost of their actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 10:54 AM

Can't open your link, but it wasn't
Qaddafi, for all his weaknesses, introduced progressive measures and was met with resistance - he eventually became a liability.
The West would not accept progressive policies that did not suit their own interests and brutally suppressed them
They opposed Nasser's nationalising of the Suez Canal, they engineered a coup to remove Nkrumah in the former Gold Coast, (Ghana) and they almost certainly engineered the assasination of Patrice Lumumba in The Congo - that's how it worked - if your face didn't suit Western interests, you went and it didn't matter what yuour replacement's human rights attitude was - Papa Doc Duvalier, in Haiti, Hitler-loving Marshal Kee in South Vietnam, the Contras in El Salvador... all "monsters, but our monsters".
I've recommended a book before - I doubt if you took may advice, and you won't now, but I suggest 'Listen Yankee', by American sociologist, C Write Mills   
He describes how America's opposition to social reforms in Cuba turned a social revolt into a revolution.
These poorer countries need to find their own salvation
Finally gt to open your link to the opinion (only) of American establishment writer's Ellen Brown - opinion only
It is interesting to have quoted something from 'The Ecologist' founded by teh son of notorious billionaire, Jimmy Goldsmith.
Tnat't the place everybody should go for unbiased political opinion !
and you call me naively uncritical!!!
Libya's decline and downfall came long, long before Hilary Clinton and the American election   
What the writer describes is the corpse of a country with principles, not why it died
We could have helped the Libyan protesters achieve a fairer system - instead, we profited on their problems and were quite happy to see Qaddafi's son step into his shoes and continue the dynasty.
All of these states need to be examined in historical context if we are to understand them - in the meantime, a humanitarian stance has fo fill the gap.
We owe these countries far more than they owe us.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 10:12 AM

Jim it was a bit more than socialist policies led to Gadaffi's downfall.
It was more about the munee.


http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2987399/why_qaddafi_had_to_go_african_gold_oil_and_the_challenge_to_monetary_impe


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 09:31 AM

Sod his ill manners - let's give it a whirlLibya's progress came though the adoption of SOCIALIST POLICIES by the Baath Perty
It was when the west opposed those policies, describing them as oppressive, that things began to go wrong
The West and it's "safe pair of hands" policies have much to answer for
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 09:10 AM

"Jim, multiculturalism was failing even while I was a member of the Communist Party, "
So - Britain has never lost its Empire mentality and has refused to take responsibility for the damage that Empire did and has left in its wake
People come he re and settle and are rejected and smeared by bigots like you and are criticised for keeping to their own communities
You may pay lip service to detesting Powell but you carry his message perfectly
You and yours are the problem - not the immigrants
Views like yours get petrol poured through letter boxes
You now have an equally ignorant running mate who makes pronouncements and refuses to respond with decent and respectful argument - a waste of time replying - I can go to any ill brought up moron to be partonised and insulted
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 08:52 AM

Jim, multiculturalism was failing even while I was a member of the Communist Party, I attended demos all over Scotland in solidarity with immigrants. It was the time of Civil Rights in America, which I had come to understand and support mainly through blues and US Folk music. I detested Powell, but the man was eventually proved correct many years after his death; he saw into the future and recognised the policy of multiculturalism for what it was....a recipe for disaster.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 07:16 AM

"A removal of dictatorships is the first giant step for mankind - what happens following that in terms of international co-operation, humanitarian aid, the winning of hearts and minds and encouragement to establish democratic systems"

Having seen what has happened in Libya and Iraq, and what many would wish on Syria, I think we are better off leaving well alone.
Libya once a successful country with excellent health care and education now sent back to the stone age and run by local warlords.
Iraq attacked on the scam of supposed weapons of mass destruction and vast chunks of its infrastructure destroyed, depleted uranium nano particles wreaking havoc in the ubiquitous war zones and many vital medicines with held due to sanctions.
Syria, a onetime secular society with Christians, Jews and Muslims living in peaceful coexistance. Now with a high percentage of its population refugees.

I cannot see in any of these three examples humanitarian aid and the winning of hearts and minds, let alone the rest of the mindless recitation.
I just see an endless tragedy while those responsible continue to practise their endless propaganda and play with ever more deadly toys in their big sandbox and care not a whit for the human suffering they cause.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 06:45 AM

"Tell that to the head and hand chopping, Homosexual executing, women enslaving, pilot roasting democrats of Libya and Iraq, "
That is utter racist bollocks Ake
The people of these countries do not do that the fanatics they need to get rid themselves of do.
You say multiculturalism has failed - if it has it's because of screaming fanatical bigots like you who don't want foreigners to foul up our 'green and pleasant land'
I take pleasure in reminding you - and anybody else around that you stated that mass-murdering racist bigot Anders Breivik "was saying something worth listening to"
You seem very selective in your choice of which killer is "worth listening to" and which is not.
On an earlier point
The wealth West is already is already imposing its values on Third World Countries by leeching from the oppression and injustice that his happening to the poorest people on the planet
We need dictatorships to exist so we can fill our cars with cheap petrol and fill our shops with slave-manufactured goods.
As Voltaire might have said - 'if oppressive dictatorships did not exist we would have to invent them'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 06:29 AM

"A removal of dictatorships is the first giant step for mankind - what happens following that in terms of international co-operation, humanitarian aid, the winning of hearts and minds and encouragement to establish democratic systems"


Tell that to the head and hand chopping, Homosexual executing, women enslaving, pilot roasting democrats of Libya and Iraq, your whole world vision is based on myth......these people hate us with a vengeance and they will probably succeed in their goal of world domination.......they will have been ably assisted by you and your kind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 04:33 AM

"Jim the removal of dictatorships in the middle East has not brought democracy, i"
Can we add support for dictatorships to your growing list Ake?
You really are coming out of your closet with giant strides, aren't you?
A removal of dictatorships is the first giant step for mankind - what happens following that in terms of international co-operation, humanitarian aid, the winning of hearts and minds and encouragement to establish democratic systems will govern what happens in the future and will decide whether or not this planet has a future
We've established and supported far too many dictatorships out of self-interest and pursuit of profit - that's why the world we've left to our children is so obscenely ***** up.
Who on earth talks about "Western Democracy being transplanted" - that is what happened when the world was divided into Empires - only it wasn't transplanted - it was imposed.
Each nation must be allowed and assisted to shape its own destiny and plan its own future - hopefully it will be a better one that we bequeathed to them.
The Arab Spring that you pour such contempt on was a perfect example of an opportunity lost - people who had had enough demanding a better life for themselves free of the despots you apparently support.
We could have actively helped them to develop decent societies - instead we alienated them with a mixture of half-hearted gesture-politics and a self interest - we created a situation in Libya that both sides were fighting each other with weapons sold by The British - Briatin was training Qdaffi's son to take his place when he joined the Choir Invisibule - utter inhuman madness.
The eve of The Arab Spring was marked by a massive Arms Fair in London, opened by David Cameron, aimed at selling instruments of destruction and oppression to the despots the poor of the Middle East were trying to did themselves of.
We fill our shops with goods manufactured in the most oppressive despotic regimes under the worst conditions in the world, while at the same time, exiting Europe in order to stop the immigration of the people seeking a better life here
What message is that sending out to the world "Bear your chains with fortitude - we-re not interested" is the one I'm getting
Is it any wonder they are turning to their own fanatics for support.
It is not an act of humanity that we should involve ourselves in assisting these people to better their lot - it is a matter of self interest
"Only an idiot" refuses to see that
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 04:03 AM

Jim the removal of dictatorships in the middle East has not brought democracy, it has brought fanaticism, lawlessness and chaos.0

"Democracy" if it is ever to come about will have to slowly evolve especially in countries with Muslim cultures.

Only an idiot would refuse to accept the evidence and think that Western "democracy" can be transplanted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 04:02 AM

Jim,
I HAVE NEVER AT ANY TIME PROPOSED INVADING ANYWHERE -M YOU ACCUSED ME OF DOING SO - ONCE MORE YOU LIED

On the Homs thread you advocated military intervention to protect civilians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 03:52 AM

As I have said, I do not believe that the Assad regime was responsible for the gas attack, there is absolutely no logic in such an attack from President Assad's point of view, he leads the fight against terrorism in Syria and must have known that such an act would bring down the wrath of the world on his head.......to no military purpose. It is so suicidal as to be completely unbelievable.

If the regime was mad enough to make such an idiotic decision, it blows out of the water the "liberal" view that President Trump is in the pocket of President Putin.

I think that on one point Jim is correct and that President Trump acted opportunistically and I must say dangerously in ordering the air strikes on Syria, without UN authorisation or waiting to hear the results of an enquiry into the incident.

This is a disappointment to me, but a portion of the blame must fall on the Democrats and "liberals" who have obstructed and frustrated every policy he has tried to introduce.......They are now , like Jim, left in a quandary, their conspiracy theories in tatters.
He no doubt thought that it was worth the risk to gain some domestic gravitas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 03:52 AM

Here is a post of mine from around the time of the first Sarin Attack in Syria and Obama's "Red Line" fiasco:

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Teribus - PM
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 11:35 AM

To address Donuel's post

1: Your proposed solution would be more effective were it put in the following terms to the President of Syria and all his international supporters:

The current crisis in Syria is entirely of your making, the use of chemical weapons was a "red line" that has been crossed - we do not care who crossed it - Should there be a repetition, we WILL hold you responsible, these weapons are "yours", you have elected that Syria is not a signatory of the International Chemical Weapons Convention, the only reason they are available for use inside Syria. Any strike will be directed at yourself and the leadership of the ruling Ba'ath party in Syria - this we hope will act as a suitable incentive for you, your ministers and military commanders to ensure that no further chemical weapons are used.


The President of the USA has fired a warning shot - it was only a warning shot - he gave notice and Assad and whatever Russians were about were given time to get themselves and whatever stuff they wanted out of harms way. Those US Tomahawk missiles survived passing through a Russian supplied anti-missile defence system and struck their targets with a 100% success rate. President Trump should now tell the Assad regime precisely what I suggested Obama should have done in 2013:

Any future strike will be directed at yourself and the leadership of the ruling Ba'ath party in Syria - this we hope will act as a suitable incentive for you, your ministers and military commanders to ensure that no further chemical weapons are used.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 03:28 AM

"Perhaps you should look at the facts. "
"The facts", in this particular case, are quite likely to be that those closest to the worst world leader in over the last half century have told the president that, instead of ignoring the war crimes being committed by Russia and Syria, it might be a great photo-opportunity for him to clean up his image and appear as a sentient human being for a change.
Assad should have been arrested and placed in front of a War Crimes Tribunal by the U.N. at the time he was slaughtering civilians in Homs - he might have been had Russia and China used their veto to prevent that happening.
His viciously murderous activities prior to that should have been investigated at the time of the AMNESTY REPORT in 2009
They weren't, - he was considered too valuable an asset to the West - "a safe pair of hands" in the Middle East, so we did nothing and ignored the mass murder and torture that was going on.
The end result has been that Western inaction has provided a perfect breeding ground for fanatics like Isis and we have become part of the slaughter.
Now Assad - a proven mass murderer, whatever he does and will continue to do, is one of our friends - and one of our most imaginatively horrific creations - Mary Shelly, eat your heart out.
A perfect example of political opportunism and national self-interest gone as toxic as the weapons that are being used.
The least that should come out of this bloody fiasco is that The United Nations should review its policy of allowing its most powerful Nation States to use its influence by blocking natural justice and humanity with vetoes - it happens far too often
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 17 - 03:18 AM

Greg F

Piquant=pleasantly stimulating or exciting to the mind.

What on earth are you babbling on about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 04:09 PM

Greg F : Perhaps you should look at the facts.

As facts are irrelevant to your world view as well as to those who you champion this reference is something piquant - if not just downright ignrant bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 02:03 PM

have been in favour of the proposed intervention.
YPretty well proven as is every other act of terror of this murderous regime
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Iains
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 01:42 PM

Greg F
Perhaps you should look at the facts. An illegal airstrike has occurred on a sovereign nation on the basis of as yet unfounded allegations.
Had unequivocal evidence been presented to justify a strike, it would be difficult to argue against the merits of the action.
However that is not the case. Also according to some reports over half the missiles did not impact on the target. For all the talk the damage appears relatively minor,apart from the murdered casualties.
Also telling the Russians before carrying out the strike must inevitably have vastly diminished the potential impact. So a person could legitimately ask:- what was the point of it all? It seems the first major action of the President on the world stage was that of a clown in a 5 ring circus. Poorly planned, poorly executed with the result of racking up tensions in an already unstable part of the world, and giving Putin an open invitation to beef up the syrian air defences.

Perhaps you think that was a win win result- I think it was a shambles!


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 01:15 PM

"You have been in favour of an actual, boots on the ground invasion."
No Keith - I asked when I used the word - not you
You appear to be admitting that I didn't but you accused me of doing so, which is what I said
Obama's proposal came late - after the horse had bolted - Britain voted against intervention when the citizens of Homs were being slaughtered - you agreed with them and proposed that they should send riot control equipment to get the protestors off the streets.
Up to this time, you called me a fascist for suggesting "invasion"
I HAVE NEVER AT ANY TIME PROPOSED INVADING ANYWHERE -M YOU ACCUSED ME OF DOING SO - ONCE MORE YOU LIED
- you are a serial liar and have been for a long time - now - once again - whenever have I ever suggesting invading anywhere
Now will do nicely
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 12:48 PM

Is it the president calling the shots or deep state?

Deep state, Iains ?

I can see you're right up there with Flynn and the pizza parlor sex ring.

You need to stop listening to Alex Jones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Andrew Neil slams jihadist!!!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 11:45 AM

Jim, I can not remember if you used the word "invade" but you did demand that Western troops intervene in Syria.

Here is what I said AT THE TIME,

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 10 Sep 13 - 02:27 PM

Jim, I have been arguing all along that Obama's proposed intervention, despite uncertainty of outcome, was less harmful than doing nothing.
I have been in favour of the proposed intervention.
You have been in favour of an actual, boots on the ground invasion.


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Mudcat time: 24 September 11:48 AM EDT

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