BS: Trump Korean War II

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:47 AM

Humour Ake, you should try to get some, it works wonders.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:44 AM

"
But what about the extraordinary American people? And I find your question about Hilary [sic] to be very Tensing... "

A wonderful example of the childishness that I referred to. Will you be asking Steve the purpose of that post Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:43 AM

"The rational course would be to agree with Keith's analysis and discuss a way forward"

Perhaps you could elucidate on the analysis, I seem to have missed any analysis.

Or perhaps you mean things like:

"Trump has threatened retaliation or maybe a pre-emptive strike.A bit like Kennedy did over the Cuban missiles. What do you imagine Hilary would have done? What should be done?"

Not exactly material for a diplomatic mission.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Stu
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:39 AM

"demonstrating his capability of delivering it."

As far as is known, Kim doesn't have the capability to put a nuclear warhead on a missile yet. Also, the missiles themselves are inherently unstable; the last one is thought to have burned up as it descended back to earth. NK are testing several types of missile using various launch and propulsion systems that can reach various ranges... NK has to fire them straight up to avoid hitting other countries so the exact range of the missiles is untested and speculative. South Korea and Japan have good reason to be concerned, the US may well have in time but then so will a fair number of the people on the planet.


"Slagging off Trump is easy, but how should he deal with the real and serious threat of many thousands of American people killed."

Two things here. Firstly, it's not just about American people, it's about ALL the people who will suffer if there is a nuclear war. Any sane person would understand that to press the button would murder millions of complete innocents in whichever country is bombed. Refelect on that for a while.

Secondly, the historical context of NK anti-US sentiment seems to be excluded from any media analysis (sadly not a surprise on today's dumb-down, reactionary world).The US has history in NK and undertook one of the most brutal bombing campaigns against civilian targets ever during the Korean War, with one general boasting they had wiped out 20% of the Korean civilian population. Like it or not, this is one reason why NK feels very threatened by US rhetoric and is exactly why they have to be treated carefully and not by issuing threats; there are plenty of people alive who suffered and lost loved ones as a direct result of those actions, right or wrong. This context is important.


"What should be done?"

For a start, stop using intentionally inflammatory language whilst demonstrating a bellicose attitude. It's been known for years how NK try to provoke a belligerent response from the US and all the previous presidents have had the intelligence to let them rant and rave whilst doing the only thing you can do with profoundly unreasonable people like Kim - use economic sanctions and try to persuade the Chinese to put pressure on the NK leadership.

We know military interventions since the last Korean war have not worked out well for the US and the rest of the world, and even the Korean War isn't officially ended. At the end of the day, the only way to solve these issues is to TALK.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:35 AM

Well, Dave I was hoping my contribution would make you all see how childish you are, but I won't hold my breath.

I am not interested in having the thread closed, neither am I interested in suppression of discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:33 AM

But what about the extraordinary American people? And I find your question about Hilary [sic] to be very Tensing...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:27 AM

And just what have you contributed with the last 2 posts, ake? I suspect you are just trying to get yet another thread closed and I am not going to party to it this time.

You have a crazed dictator threatening nuclear destruction on ordinary American people

Trump again?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:20 AM

Of course the answer is that you won't be happy until only a little gang of "liberals" remain here....no one left to rock the boat ...your ideologies safe from attack....no more anxiety...sleep....sleep.       Cowards!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:08 AM

Why do you people come here if you don't wish to contribute to the threads?
If opposing voices are not heard the forum dies.
Keith asks a perfectly reasonable question and you are all afraid to answer, because to disagree with what Keith says on the subject would make you look stupid.

The rational course would be to agree with Keith's analysis and discuss a way forward......but you people seem to see this place as a battleground, not a discussion forum.
To ignore alternative views or suppress them is a Fascist concept and I have seen signs of that in this forum over many years.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 07:00 AM

I get that most here hate Trump, and for good reason.

This situation with NK has been obvious, inevitable and brewing for years.
None of it on Trump's watch.

You have a crazed dictator threatening nuclear destruction on ordinary American people, and demonstrating his capability of delivering it.

Trump has threatened retaliation or maybe a pre-emptive strike.
A bit like Kennedy did over the Cuban missiles.
What do you imagine Hilary would have done?
What should be done?

Slagging off Trump is easy, but how should he deal with the real and serious threat of many thousands of American people killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 06:37 AM

Some of us, BWM, some of us.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 06:21 AM

Well at least the usual crowd here seem to be learning...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 05:42 AM

I am a servant of the lard :-)

Amen to the failing to engage with a madman sentiment on all levels!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 05:34 AM

"Failing to engage with a madman when there can be no good outcome is a good thing"

As some of us are learning in microcosm on this forum, grindingly slowly. 😉

"thus spoke the Lard"

Sounds like a slippery customer...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 05:31 AM

This letter in The Irish Times this morning sums up the siituation quite well, as far as I'm concerned
Jim Carroll

Trump and North Korea's war of words        
Sir, I agree with your Editorial (August 10th) regarding of the dangerous war of words between Donald Trump and id North Korea. But missing from recent discussions is a sense of why North Korea became this way in the first place, North Korean leaders developed their paranoid world view in the wake of the devastation of the Korean war, when the United States carpet-bombed the North.        
Its leaders subsequently developed a bunker mentality, vowing never again to be such a to target.
In recent years, the North Koreans developed nuclear weapons to ensure their country's survival and to demonstrate its own military strength.
Political dialogue and diplomacy must be pursued in order to help resolve deep-seated political issues. President Trump and his allies may condemn the regime, but they must try to understand North Korea's perspective in order to engage in meaningful diplomacy.-Yours, etc,        
RICHARD COFFEY,        
Terenure,        
Dublin 6W.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 05:30 AM

NK is threatening nuclear destruction on American people while demonstrating his capability to do it.

That required a response. Any president would have had to respond.
What exactly should Trump have done differently, and what tactics have previously been successful in reining in the current Kim in his aggressive pursuit of nuclear capability?

Steve's last post was an unprovoked personal attack with no single reference to the issue under discussion.

I think it should be removed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 10:04 PM

"If I find in Sodom fifty righteous people within the city, then I will spare the whole place from fire and ashes on their account."
thus spoke the Lard

It looks like we have a buffer against Trump Bannon in the hundreds.
They just take their time. whew

Trump should just attack Grenada like Reagan did if he needs a decisive victory.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 08:23 PM

The fact that previous presidents have decided not to throw a firecracker into a room full of kerosene is a GOOD thing. Failing to engage with a madman when there can be no good outcome is a good thing. My statement on the inevitability of escalation was due to cynicism, and the belief that sooner or later, some idiot was going to light fuse.

Trump is backing off, but not before showing the rest of the world how unstable he is... in case they hadn't noticed previously.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 08:13 PM

"..Mr President Bush? Mr President Obama? Madam Secretary Clinton?"
You gave an excuse for supporting this scumbag in the White House the suggestion that if Clinton was elected she would bring the world to the point of war
Now where are we exactly?
A rogue state such as North Korea is a problem - throw a n arrogantly belligerent thug with no negotiating skills and no political experience and you have a potential nuclear disaster
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 08:06 PM

Bo, I will agree that in many respects they are two peas in a pod.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 08:00 PM

Yes gilly, Trump has definitely ramped it up but he did not instigate it, you've got to give credit where it's due ie. to that other clearly insane and uniquely unqualified "leader" of his country.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 06:59 PM

Keith is scrabbling desperately around for a voice now that his hobbyhorse threads have gone with the wind. He has already trolled on the innocent hedgerow thread. And now he's employing his usual despicable tactics here. The best thing is to ignore him. Jesus, I'm trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 06:39 PM

Here is the entire post of 12:54 P.M. today to give the statement that Keith and Bo disagree with some context:

"Heed whoever you want to, Keith. 60 plus years of a non-shooting war (with occasional flare-ups) and 200 days of Twitler and his loudmouthed, braggadocio (calculated to titillate the dimwits who voted for him as he's never gotten out of campaign mode and realized he's the president of the entire U.S.A.) and he's brought us to the brink of a nuclear confrontation. Do the math."

If the world gets out of this situation that Twit has amped up with his tough guy talk unscathed, it will be in spite of him not because of him. He is clearly insane and uniquely unqualified to be POTUS.
Have a good weekend, all.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 06:32 PM

btw It is McMaster who has played a role in the Crimson Tide scenario.
He is a likely deep state speaker who has been a leaker in these crazy weeks or
not !?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 06:15 PM

Trump has walked back his comments after his tweet about Kim uttering anything belligerent will be met by force, by lying about what he tweeted.
Trump announced his second press conference of his term for this coming Monday. Water is seeking its normal level again.

which reminds me 2016 is yet again the hottest year on record
http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/graphics/10-hottest-years-on-record

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 05:13 PM

Oh well, as we're vaporising it'll be a comforting thought that it wasn't The Ginger Tosser's fault, won't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 04:34 PM

he's brought us to the brink of a nuclear confrontation. Do the math.

From the news reports I have read NK is reacting to the sanctions imposed on it, by unanimous agreement of all fifteen United Nations Security Council members, for its repeated defiance of a ban on testing missiles and nuclear bombs. I would say that it is Kim who is bringing the world to the brink of nuclear confrontation.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 04:08 PM

Of course you CAN, but you automatically lose any credibility in the process.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 02:30 PM

Of course I can, Keith. I already did and will continue to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 02:02 PM

he's brought us to the brink of a nuclear confrontation. Do the math.

NK would be launching its missiles and threatening its neighbours whoever was US president.
Previous presidents have utterly failed to prevent the inevitable consequence of allowing them to develop nuclear weapons and ICBM missiles, and you can not blame Trump for any of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 01:42 PM

Need to know status has more layers than an onion. And each layer is smaller.

gillymor knows far more than gil lets on and makes me self conscious that this understanding of what I say cryptically is literally understood by anyone.(you even know Trump's golf game?) I have a habit of knowing more than I possibly could or should which is poorly understood and causes trouble. I don't think my trouble is the issue anymore. We have talk of another Crimson Tide mutiny with unknowable split second outcomes. This is the first man made crisis of the Trump presidency. Do we have a Denzel Washington to the complicated rescue?

I don't know.

When or if I do I'll say my piece. It feels strangely opaque for now.
More people need to hold Peace in their mind compared to the WWW Slam folks. The morbidly curious secretly long for things not in their best interest as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 12:54 PM

Heed whoever you want to, Keith. 60 plus years of a non-shooting war (with occasional flare-ups) and 200 days of Twitler and his loudmouthed, braggadocio (calculated to titillate the dimwits who voted for him as he's never gotten out of campaign mode and realized he's the president of the entire U.S.A.) and he's brought us to the brink of a nuclear confrontation. Do the math.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 12:40 PM

It's past time to get him out of there and get some serious people back in charge.

Those same people who allowed this to happen?
Trump has only been in charge for a few months.

Jeri is the only one of us who has real knowledge of this.
Heed what she says.
"This escalation was, IMO, bound to happen eventually."

They all knew that and what did they do to stop it?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 12:35 PM

China can pull the plug on NK anytime they want to, IF they want to.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 12:31 PM

"It's past time to get him out of there and get some serious people back in charge. "

Oh Yea? Now who would those serious people be? Let me think......Mr President Bush? Mr President Obama? Madam Secretary Clinton?

Look what a fine job they made of the Middle East and North Africa, every country they touched, a beacon of light, peace and good order.

People just longing for some democracy and freedom.....they are coming to get it in droves.....and they are quite happy to take yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 12:24 PM

"Chinese trucks."
If Britain and America an sell weapons to the monsters they have (and continue to do) we have little elbow-room to point fingers
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 12:21 PM

""Some would argue these same people have managed to lame his Presidency and therefore are calling all the shots."
Annd far more would say thta Trump id not fit to govern, let alone have his finger on the nuclear button
Please do not confuse the populism that gave us Trump and Brexit with democracy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 12:17 PM

Re. China.
Kim's missiles are mobile and hidden from possible attack because they are mounted on trucks.
Chinese trucks.
China also supplied all his air defence systems and all his conventional weapons.

China has allowed NK to develop its nuclear capability over many years and has actually undermined earlier sanctions.

Do not put too much faith in China doing much to help.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Iains
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 11:27 AM

"Some would argue these same people have managed to lame his Presidency and therefore are calling all the shots."

Based on what actual evidence?

You have to be joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 10:59 AM

Golf imitates life, at least it seems to for Dr. Strangetrump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Stu
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 10:50 AM

"Some would argue these same people have managed to lame his Presidency and therefore are calling all the shots."

Based on what actual evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 10:40 AM

Yup
The guy lames himself with the exception of a guaranteed 23% of the population that hears only what they want. They are the same folks you can fool all of the time.

We are now experiencing an "Opium War". China had theirs now we have our Opioid War. Guess what, the Fentanyl that does most of the killing of Americans (Thousands per month) comes from China. They have long memories. Deliberate? naah, its probably just a way to make a buck.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 10:27 AM

BOOM !! 100

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Iains
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 10:19 AM

Does the power, ingenuity and size of the military industrial complex NOT have the power to stop, shut down, deny service, block or divert Twitter for even a little while????

Some would argue these same people have managed to lame his Presidency and therefore are calling all the shots. What price your democracy now?

Subject: RE: BS: ???? ??? ????
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 09:56 AM

Does the power, ingenuity and size of the military industrial complex NOT have the power to stop, shut down, deny service, block or divert Twitter for even a little while????

Pre-emptive Nuclear War by Twitter from a resort golf course, dog leg left, par 4, 6th hole is a scenario not even Kurt Vonnegut could have imagined. Lets hope Trump does not become stymied, angry and frustrated by the right front sand trap or left bunker and god forbid unleash hell in a vengeful anguished tantrum.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 09:42 AM

"you have some mechanism in mind for putting the genie back in the bottle?"
The question of international co-operation has always been and remains the only workable answer
If our leaders are not going to co-operate than we have no future - simple as that.
Not easy, but situations like this underline the need to start somewhere
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 09:09 AM

Locked, loaded and looney. Twit is playing chicken with a fellow unpredictable nutbag in Kim, and those dark men behind him, and with his further tough talk he's alienating the country whose intervention may be the only real way out of this, China. It's past time to get him out of there and get some serious people back in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 08:13 AM

Its not time for bunkers to be locked and you get loaded but Trump triple dog dared KIM that the US military is locked and loaded.
Donald just had to tweet that the fire and fury comment was not worded strongly enough.

In the fog of war something is certain to go wrong.
"If you want some new songs about WWIII you better write them now"
Tom Lehrer

El Douche' will put his hands on his hips and grin if Kim does not send missiles over Japan into the sea 22 miles from Guam. That will be Donnie's only victory.
Kim will still want to dare Trump back. If it is done with words things may cool.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Iains
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 07:53 AM

Maybe instaif of looking at "fail safe systems" it's time the validity of these Weapons of Mass Destruction are questioned.

you have some mechanism in mind for putting the genie back in the bottle?
It exists therefore it is. Validity is hardly a part of the equation.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 17 - 07:07 AM

It's a mad mad mad mad world in which we can say to a country, you can't have what I've got, when the person saying it is Donald Trump and when he won't also say it to Bibi.