BS: Trump Korean War II

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 06:58 AM

It sounds like the kind of rhetoric you'd hear from the late Saddam Hussein or some other tin pot dictator, delivered while safely ensconced in his New Jersey country club.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 06:47 AM

I have later learned the phrase fire and fury in which the world has never seen, was first used word for word by President Truman.

Coincidence? I do not know.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 06:32 AM

The strategic use of nuclear weapons is based on speed and decisiveness, not delay or debate of the decision of the executive commander and chief.

Trump's phrase 'like the world has never seen' was used 15 minutes earlier regarding the opioid crises. I conclude the fire and fury remark was off the cuff.

My cartoon today is Scaramucci the 'fired' and Bannon the 'furry' meeting Kim Yun Un .

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Stu
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 06:18 AM

The US President threatened to slaughter millions of innocent people who have zero control over the actions of their leaders on TV last night. That is how fucked the world has become.

That a person could be so idiotic, flippant and matter-of-fact about visiting such unimaginable suffering on people is beyond comprehension. Two fat bastards shouting at each other like spoilt, attention-seeking children in the school playground. They are both contemptible, Trump the more so because his lack of intelligence and nuance means he's little more than a corporate bully that is way out of his depth, unfit and unable even to comprehend his awesome responsibilities. It's only ever been about him, as it is with Kim.

Remember: The host of a reality game show just threatened to burn the children of North Korea in a thermonuclear strike of "fire and fury". The capitalist lunatics have taken over the asylum.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 06:06 AM

I just hope there's a substantial buffer between our nutbag, megalomaniacal president and the nuclear codes, with or without stiletto heels.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 05:42 AM

"You are completely safe in Ireland though Jim."
Are we
Not too long ago, the US was shipping suspects through our airport, thirty miles from here in order for them to be waterboarded in Guantanamo
When will you twots realise that nobody is safe from nuclear weapons.
"NK has threatened to attack US "
And the US has threatened t attack NK - two Nuclear nutters facilitated going head-to-head - just what an already unstable world wants right now
The U.S. has always been a treat to world peace when it comes to nations who don't "do it my way"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 04:55 AM

The U.S. has them, there is no argument against why any nation capable of manufacturing them shouldn't have the right to defend itself.

Does it have the need to defend itself.
No-one has tried to attack NK since the ceasefire, and no-one has even threatened to.
If anyone did, NK has the ability with conventional weapons to utterly destroy the capital city of SK. That should be a sufficient deterrent.

NK has threatened to attack US and is thought capable of nuclear strikes against West Coast cities and maybe as far inland as Chicago.

You are completely safe in Ireland though Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 03:28 AM

Is there not a certain grim irony in a nuclear power with a leadership as belligerent and unstable as the Trump administration's, a power that conducted a war against Third World peasants for seven years by pouring burning petrol on them and spraying them with carcinogenic chemicals - the only state that has ever used weapons of mass destruction on two cities of non-combatant civilians - telling another State that it is not to be trusted with nuclear weapons?
The warning bells on the proliferation of Nuclear weaponry should have been heeded when it was revealed that, in 1975, one extremist state attempted to arm another, Apartheid South Africa with these WMD
Nobody is to be trusted with them and if The U.S. has them, there is no argument against why any nation capable of manufacturing them shouldn't have the right to defend itself.
Wake-up time down West, I think!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 17 - 12:13 AM

Someone is going to have to literally tackle Trump one of these days to keep him from going off half-cocked and starting a war. And that individual will have to trust that whoever is the next president will pardon them. I'm really hoping it's one of the women in the House or Senate, wearing stilettos for the occasion, who puts a hole through his foot before taking out the family jewels with a knee. Seriously, he's that dense that it's going to take a physical intervention.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 10:28 PM

The Korean War actually never ended. And should the DPRK attack the US, I believe that there would be a declaration of war so fast you're not going to believe it: Congress actually working together. But that's not necessary, as Congress gave the President the authority to launch a retaliatory strike back in the '50s.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 08:18 PM

This is not an existential crises but we are dealing with egotist super idiots. War is what weak thin-skinned leaders in a bubble do.
This may have been my inscrutable fear earlier. Cataclysm .

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 17 - 05:24 PM

We will respond with fire and fury the likes of which the world has never seen
DT quote today regarding NK

is he telegraphing BS or war?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/world/asia/north-korea-un-sanctions-nuclear-missile-united-nations.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 17 - 04:46 PM

Trump called Putin who told Donnie to cool it over Korea.
All is well again unless the 25th amendment is implemented.
(insert BOB emoticon here)

Believe Trump
Obey Putin
Buy Ivanka

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 May 17 - 10:31 AM

leave all internal matters to the states

Yup sounds like a Pitchfork Ben Tillman wet dream - lets take the country right back to pre-Civil War times.

For instance, "The States" - particularly the Southern ones- did a bang-up job of protecting Civil Rights from 1865 to about 1975, didn't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 10:27 PM

Well, I gotta say that Trump is a busy little guy. One would think that Sunday would be a slow news day, but Trump was on Face the Nation today.
Trump says he wants to leave healthcare to the states, so he can focus the nation on "bigger things":

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Look, because if you hurt your knee, honestly, I'd rather have the federal government focused on North Korea, focused on other things, than your knee, okay? Or than your back, as important as your back is. I would much rather see the federal government focused on other things--

JOHN DICKERSON: Let me.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: --bigger things. Now, the state is going to be in a much better position to take care, because it's smaller.

It appears that Trump is starting to feel his total failure on internal matters, and so now he's taking on "bigger things" - like maybe a little war to up his ratings, perhaps?

Since he's failed in internal matters, it looks like he's moving toward the extremist view that wants to leave all internal matters to the states and focus the federal government on waging war. Maybe he can't abolish national parks and Obamacare, but he has all sorts of tools to cripple these functions by withholding funding. And then he can go after Medicare and Social Security, so he has more money to spend on war. And war creates jobs, so a nice little war can make Trump feel like he's the success he needs to be.

It's scary.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 08:19 PM

With no understanding, full stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 07:28 PM

Perhaps the most frightening thing is that, with Trump being frustrated in pretty well all his domestic ambitions, military action overseas is the one area where he has a free hand to do just about anything.

He might well have started with a America First scenario in which the rest of the world is left alone, but domestic impotence threatens to reverse that. And we get the loose cannon to end all loose cannons rolling round the world primed and ready. With no understanding of the complexities.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Iains
Date: 30 Apr 17 - 03:55 AM

Teribus.
nothing like as clear cut as you would like to make it.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-us-war-crime-north-korea-wont-forget/2015

a sanitised link.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/atomic

North Korean troops suffered illnesses several times. No proof of biological warfare was ever found (was it ever seriously looked for?)
Research was ongoing at that time into biological agents both east and west) Their use in the battlefield was certainly s strong rumour.

The casualty figures vary depending on source roughly i million deaths in the north seems to be a consensus 60%civillian40% military.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 10:10 AM

What a pity then Greg F that you cannot dispute or counter one single one of those points that you describe as being "alternative facts". In the light of that they remain as facts as presented.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:54 AM

Thanks for the "alternative facts", T. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 09:45 AM

If it is historical context and fact that is required:

1: The Soviet Union started arming the North Koreans in 1947. The attack on the South instigated by North Korea, was planned in conjunction with the PRC and the USSR. The timing of the attack was timed to occur after it was announced to the world that the USSR had acquired a nuclear weapon capability.

2: "Le May estimated 20% of the north korean population was killed." - Meaningless the total number of civilian casualties,i.e. killed AND wounded numbered ~2.5 million. Population of North Korea in 1951 was 10.5 million, the population of South Korea was 21 million.

3: "The bombing campaign was more intense than anything seen in WW2." - Absolute nonsense, until the Chinese intervened ALL air strikes were tactical against military targets. Anyone trying to state that what followed eclipsed in intensity, scale and severity the strategic bombing campaigns waged against Nazi Germany and Japan between 1939 and 1945 is just simply wrong.

4: Nuclear/atomic weapons would never have been sanctioned during the Korean War due to the fact that the USSR had acquired an operational weapon of its own in 1949.

5: North Korea has been threatening a nuclear strike now for years so to say that they would do everything to prevent war is ridiculous.

6: North Korea's nuclear capability was acquired through the "Atoms for peace" scheme, they were signatories of the Nuclear NPT. They rode a coach and horses through this treaty which they never, ever meant to honour. They have reneged on every single agreement they have entered into through negotiation. They have been instrumental in aiding the proliferation of nuclear weapons technology and in missile delivery system technology to some of the most odious regimes on the planet. It is high time that they are brought to book over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Iains
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 03:43 AM

The stance taken by the North Koreans needs to be looked at in its historical context. The largely American UN intervention in Korea in the Korean War led to the destruction of much of the infrastructure and a huge civilian death toll. The bombing campaign was more intense than anything seen in WW2. Le May estimated 20% of the north korean population was killed. Dean Rusk did not want to leave one brick on top of another. The use of nuclear weapons was threatened and actively sought by Le May.
It is little surprise that the north koreans would do everything in their power to prevent a repeat of what happened in the early fifties.The continual bluster needs to be replaced by both sides thrashing out a peaceful resolution. The present bluff and counter bluff could spiral out of control.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Kampervan
Date: 29 Apr 17 - 03:14 AM

If Trump decided to take action I don't think that he would use nuclear weapons on NK. His conventional weapons are more than capable of wiping out all of the necessary targets in NK.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 17 - 11:12 AM

Tillerson is in the UN security council today delivering what amounts to an ultimatum to N Korea. You already know what crap Trump said about a major major conflict absolutely...

In nuclear war there is no win, lose or draw scenario that Trump imagines will cement him as a strong President no matter what the outcome.

I often believe in the worst scenario like the time I predicted Hillary would lose. Everyone should hope I am wrong this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 17 - 09:30 AM

Unless I am mistaken we gave Pakistan breeder reactors to the chagrin of India. Pakistan and Prof. Kahn gave the bomb technology to North Korea.

Like an old western the US is acting like a cowboy who throws down a gun for NK and says "pick it up". I hope The NK dictator is not on cocaine. He might pick up the gun with drug courage.

If all this blow over Donald will take credit as the strongest President ever. If it doesn't, Donald will take credit...ibid.

In this age of distraction politics and fake facts Trump is weighing the option t shut down the government over a debt ceiling unless Congress agrees to include a provision to have Average Americans PAY FOR THE WALL.

We all know the past is not past but the future has a peculiar smell of uncertainty. I thought I smelled Freedom Fries but it stinks more like a Fascist France and America with UK tagging along.

Russia is tickled pinko.



PS
I am leaving my shocked scolding tone in the past thanks to gillymor holding up a mirror.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 11:12 PM

I suspect that the US, Britain, France, China, India, and Russia would do something should the DPRK be stupid and crazy enough to use nuclear weapons. Chemical weapons would also cause an international response.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 01:04 PM

North Korea is 2.5 miles away from South Korea. The US has quite a few military installations in S. Korea, a few of which are really close to the DMZ. S. Korea is our ally.

So radioactive fallout may harm the Bering Sea, but, depending on wind direction, it's going to fall on our military, too.

Dropping a nuke on N. Korea would be essentially like Florida dropping a nuke on Georgia.

While I'm of the opinion that Trump is unprecedentedly stupid, I don't think he's THAT stupid. Fingers crossed, anyway. It's not worth it in any way to re-ignite the Korean War with a nuke. The usual pot-shots and incursions are probably how it's going to continue, although there may be more of the incidents. And if N. Korea uses a nuke on people, I'd guess there won't be any more N. Korea for very long.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 17 - 12:22 PM

Our secretary of State can not pronounce Korean cities, but he warns we will bomb them. Pre emptive war was what the attack on Pearl Harbor was about. It creates war. It does not disarm war.

The radioactive fall out will harm our Bering sea fisheries, Alaska and the entire west coast.

War fanatics should be pleased that China may have a response in mind.

Please give 10 seconds of silence for the half billion lives that will be incinerated or poisoned to death.


THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT iVANKA got 3 new trademarks in China.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 11:57 PM

Read Raps post regarding the history. Yes it was the US who broke the treaty. History is innocently at fault in its peculiar absence. The US has many generations that have not studied the Fascist rise unless you count war movies and docs.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 11:45 PM

The Secretary of State Rex T. said today "We have spoken enough about N. Korea. The US will have no further comment."

kinda cryptic huh? Considering a language barrier one would think the US would have some kind of clear message.

Tillerman has been briefed on the death projection scenarios depending upon the weapon system chosen. He characterized these as "tough choices".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 11:25 PM

Sorry - I was momentarily living in the past. The first war never officially ended, and technically, both Koreas are still at war. When I was there, stuff happened along the DMZ on a regular basis. We heard about it because we were there, but those occurrences were generally not reported in the US.

I hope that if North Korea actually hits something with a bomb, we dump every conventional weapon we have on them, and fuck China. (Yes, I'm feeling grumpy tonight.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 10:48 PM

Kim Jung Un is the current Head Crazy of No. Korea; he is the son of Kim Jung Il, who was the son of Kim Il Sung.

FWIW, the Second Korean War has already been fought and won. Another link for more information is here.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 03:39 PM

N.Korea only became a nuclear power with long range missiles during the last administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Stu
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 09:03 AM

"I think Keith was referring to the Obama administration Stu."

I understand that Ake, but no-one has managed to find a way to deal with North Korea and even the Chinese are wary of them. Singling out a single administration is meaningless; how to contain the NK leader would be far more pertinent a question.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 07:54 AM

Has anyone in the White House attempted a little reality check to see if Trump believes he can win so decisively
because he can deploy Captain America, Iron Man, Superman,
and the full ultra patriotic teams of The Avengers and The Justice League of America to easily defeat N. Korea...??? 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 07:37 AM

I think Keith was referring to the Obama administration Stu.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Stu
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 05:09 AM

"All previous administrations also failed to achieve a diplomatic or any other solution."

Fixed that for you. You're welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 17 - 04:13 AM

Our State Dept. has no one left to offer a diplomatic solution.

The previous administration also failed to achieve a diplomatic or any other solution.
This problem has not arisen in the last few weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Apr 17 - 07:19 PM

Kim Jung Il, I think you meant.

It was always tense, but I felt like full-scale war wasn't likely. There are only a few miles between North & South Korea, and I didn't believe the North was capable of carrying on an extended campaign. They were (IMO) crazy as fuck, but most of the "crazy" strategies would have them pretty much injuring themselves.

There's a reason the war never ended, and there's a reason it's not really being fought now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Apr 17 - 07:07 PM

China is into making money. South Korea, China, Japan, and India are the Economic Big Four in Asia. ROK (South Korea) is a favored trading partner of China. Russia has its own problems, mostly stemming from Putin's desire to reprise the Cold War in the hopes that it will cure some of Russia's woes -- but Russia doesn't want those woes added to by a war on the Manchurian border. Should North Korea, or rather the current crazy there, start shooting at South Korea and/or Japan and/or the US, well, China, India, Russia, and US all have nukes and would, I think, use them. So do France and Britain, although they are more remote from the problem. There is a good reason why it's still called "The UN Command."

The current US president has no concept of all of this, although he does have oral diarrhea similar to that of Kim Jung Un and a similar sense of self importance.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Apr 17 - 03:58 AM

And Samsung phones? The ones that haven't self-destructed that is.

Subject: BS: Trump Korean War II
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 03:46 PM

There is sabre rattling then there is drawing a gun. Both Trump and Tillerman warn China to do something about North Korea or the US will.

Trump Meets wit the Chinese President at Mara Lago. Who cares if they shake hands. I think Trump will make his bones with a fool hearty military strike on Korea. China will call his bluff. Russia, Japan as well as China will all have a response if Trump goes mad.

Our State Dept. has no one left to offer a diplomatic solution.

Then again who cares what I believe. It is what Trump and a double funded US military believe that counts.

Lets all hope this topic evaporates but I would hold back on Hyundai and KIA purchases.




https://www.democracynow.org/2017/3/13/china_warns_us_north_korea_are