Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 25 May 17 - 12:26 PM

One limiting factor is of course lack of suitable venues to put on

events ~ added to the clashing of The Regatta ~ this leads to restricted

accommodation availability and over full pubs

The festival btw does rely greatly on goodwill and very many artists and

regulars receive no fees or expenses ~ often doing the "work" for

nothing ~ and the furtherance of folk song/music/dance etc (too many complications)

Whitby folk week is and should be a fun time and ppl attend for a variety of reasons ~ many largely for the beer of course!

Whatever enjoy yourselves and I hope to see some of you there god willing

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Mo the caller
Date: 25 May 17 - 10:59 AM

My problem with the programme is finding out just what the terse descriptions mean. Those who know.....
e.g. that a musician will be teaching tunes by ear / or from written music (when you prefer the other way of learning)
e.g. that Hilary Herbert is a clear and careful caller who calls and writes really complicated Playford and american style dances
...will know what they are going to. Others will not
I have seen someone reduced to tears (at Bromyard FF) by finding herself in a roomful of people who could decode what she found incomprehensible.

I can see the problem at Whitby - so many events, so little space in the listings. The 2 part programme helps but not every workshop leader puts info in Part 2. The recent addition of info about which workshops are cumulative is helpful.

The festival is too short and the venues too scattered to waste time at the wrong place and miss what we wanted.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 May 17 - 11:12 AM

Putting up a "bare bones" version of the current year's programme isn't anywhere near as attractive as a complete listing of last year's. The sheer range of different events is extraordinary, but you have to actually SEE the programme to realize that, and to get an idea how many of them might be for you.

I have been asking about this for several years now, with no comment whatever from anybody involved with WFW about why they don't do it. I probably downloaded ten times as much data as a full PDF of their programme on the bus into work this morning - given the file, it's a five-minute task.

An app is a great step forward in convenience (and I'll probably buy it), but it isn't going to attract any new punters if there's no accommodation left for them by the time it's released.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Tootler
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:50 AM

I do feel it's a mistake not to put the programme on their website, at least the bare bones of the programme - what events are running when and a list of the main acts booked. I think that might meed Jack's objection which, IMO is a fair criticism.

Saltburn put theirs on the website as a pdf with printing disabled so you can plan ahead what you might go to but if you want a printed version you have to buy the programme, though these days with tablets and smart phones you can download and have it to hand. I still get a paper programme as a matter of principle

Last year Whitby FF produced an app for iOS/Android. You did have to pay for it but it had the full programme which you could have to hand. I did in fact pay for a copy but then went and tore a cartilage in my left knee and I was in no fit state to walk up and down Whitby's hills so didn't go at all. I still have the App on my android tablet and I assume it will be available for this years programme but I will have to pay for an update (which seems reasonable, IMO).

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:37 AM

the festival website is very poor

It isn't. They're just withholding important information for no reason that makes any sense to a potential attendee.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:22 AM

Raggy / Jack
Whitby does advertise, every local folk magazine that I have seen has had an ad. However, as much as the "no top of the bill" approach fits my own viewpoint I don't think that it is working.

They do seem to have become rather complacent, for the last few years it had felt that the programming was just done on autopilot using the previous year as a template.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 17 - 10:05 AM

I know of a very good fringe venue but I am keeping it secret because it is too small and I don't want it to get that crowded. Raggy knows what I am talking about :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:57 AM

I could be sarcastic Jack, but I won't. Agreed the festival website is very poor, perhaps if you were to create a webpage people might add information to it. I normally get a programme about the middle/end of July from one of the outlets in Whitby.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:52 AM

Numbers are falling. The scale is down - about 10% less events in programme last year than the year before. I think only one event I was interested in sold out - in previous years several did.

I am not suggesting any massively expensive advertising campaign. The decline isn't that bad yet. But what can it hurt to let potential attenders see a previous programme? It would cost nothing to upload it to archive.org.

WFW is not legendary in Scotland. There are a few regular Scottish attenders, but most of the people I talk to, including people involved in the folk scene for decades, have no idea what it's about, and no way to find out. You could probably say the same about Wales. A few videos of morris dancing at the bandstand is all the publicly accessible information about the festival's content there is.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 May 17 - 09:06 AM

I honestly think Whitby doesn't need to advertise. Whitby Folk Festival is an institution thanks for the massive amount of work put in by the directors, past and present. People like Malcolm Storey. If people choose not to attend because they don't know what happens I can only presume they don't talk to anyone else in the folk world. Whitby Folk Week in legendary.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,ST
Date: 24 May 17 - 06:06 AM

"Moor and Coast run a campsite for anyone, including non ticket holders, at the Community College during Festival Week."

Thank you

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 17 - 04:55 AM

Moor and Coast run a campsite for anyone, including non ticket holders, at the Community College during Festival Week.

Mike

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,ST
Date: 24 May 17 - 04:34 AM

Regarding accommodation: do they still run a campsite for non-season ticket holders at Eskdale School on the A471 south of Whitby? I haven't been to Whitby for years but found that a really useful place for the "casual" or late-deciding visitor who couldn't make more than a day or two.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 24 May 17 - 03:12 AM

A BIG limiting factor is accommodation ~ make sure you are booked in somewhere and take it from there (whatever!)

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 17 - 07:58 PM

just how much notice do you require?

Wasn't me that was asking, it was JHW.

For anyone who might be thinking of going, they really need SOME idea of what the festival is like a year in advance or they won't be able to find any accommodation. Which is why I didn't go for ten years after first hearing about it: I couldn't get a look at a previous year's programme and had absolutely no idea what sort of things went on. I know of several other people in Scotland who've taken the same attitude; I've persuaded people to go after lending them my old copies of the programme, but when I haven't been able to do that, my success rate in getting people interested has been zero. Word of mouth alone doesn't work.

For a go-or-not decision for any festival, I need at least a month to arrange holiday cover at work, and preferably two.

Anyway, for the things I'm thinking of coordinating on the FB page, a few weeks is fine - I'll be talking to people who have already decided to be there.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 23 May 17 - 07:34 PM

So the beer wasn't very good either then Raggy?

Jack - in these days of instant (almost) communication and if the programme is usually available at least a month in advance - just how much notice do you require?

Just go and enjoy it instead of nitpicking.

Or alternatively start your own festival somewhere along way from Whitby and leave them to it.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 May 17 - 09:44 AM

The last time I was in here there were EIGHT television screens in one bar and two in the small room.

Needless to say I haven't been in since

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 17 - 07:24 AM

It's been Ruperted. Big-screen sports TV.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: banjoman
Date: 23 May 17 - 05:44 AM

Nobody mentioned FILO. Spent many lunch time sessions there. Is it still there?

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:44 AM

I suspect it might be far too fiddley for this
and you could spend all weekend on your computer
but it feels worth mentioning here ...
Staffordshire uses a free database to list folk stuff.
It is sortable and filterable.
https://www.obvibase.com/faq 
There is very little space to add general info so it would still need a FB/wordpress type page for chat.

The Staffordshire example
http://www.thefolkdiary.co.uk 

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 May 17 - 04:16 AM

Ah, Whitby.
I get a warm glow just thinking about it. All the ticket stuff, free stuff and unofficial stuff. Such a wide variety on offer and so many helpful people sharing their expertise.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 23 May 17 - 02:53 AM

Yes as Malcolm says Programmes by post and from other outlets ~ Saltburn ff usually carries them (w/ed before)

Conservative club is usually every night Saturday to Thursday (dropped Friday last year ~check prog)

Con club usually has 3/4 festival guests doing spots of about 25 mins with a floor singers list at the door ~ I do my best to get everyone on btw and if I have ever missed anyone it was not on purpose ~ I had 16 floor singers one year and NO break ~ Andy Casserley is mceeing I believe ~ I do not know what I am doing (yea as ever lol!!)

Venues do change and the key to different prices from "collection" to "expensive"

The "office" was on the Spa steps last year ~ and the Spa coffee bar was a general meeting area ~ popular with dancers and others and the Theatre upstairs meeting room was used as a venue too!

Leisure centre was used as the Music and general books and CDs selling area which does need to visited to see what is on offer ~ by all

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 May 17 - 07:41 PM

Not much help a few months before it gets printed...

Can't locate my stash of previous years' programmes, 8pm-to-11pm-ish in the evening I think?

Things I'm thinking about would need a much longer time slot than the festival club could accommodate. But it would certainly be handy for people doing a spot at the festival club to use the FB page to say when it will be, so their fans/friends can find them.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 22 May 17 - 07:16 PM

In my day the official programme was always available by post at cost plus postage.

I would presume this is still the case although the postage might be prohibitive these days.

That's privatisation for you - good old Maggie - NOT.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: JHW
Date: 22 May 17 - 11:38 AM

'The Festival folk club is part of the festival'
Raymond could you please tell a little more of day/night and time if you know. Might have changed but one could only get a programme once there so difficult to plan a trip over. Thanks, John Wilson

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,Iain G
Date: 22 May 17 - 09:07 AM

Alex s we will be in the Middle Earth again this year, I have been to see the landlord and land lady and they have confirmed the room for us. Upstairs Saturday through to Thurs 1pm to 6pm ish

Hope to see you there

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 May 17 - 04:30 AM

Well, I've signed up for the official FB group and we'll see how that works out. On the face of it, no reason why it shouldn't be ok.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 22 May 17 - 02:45 AM

Yep the loss of music in its entirety in the Plough due to Sam Smiths policy was big blow to their profits and Wff!

The Festival folk club is part of the festival and I have mceed for some years in there, reasonable prices (Conservative club) and decent folk festival space ~ always pleased to see old and new friends singing folk songs and decent instrumentalist ~ yes there is a charge ~ check programme as usual

BTW is sited behind the petrol station not far from the campsite and near the Rifle club ~ don't be shy

Hope to see you there

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 21 May 17 - 08:50 PM

If you think a dedicated forum for the fringe is really needed why not do it Jack.

Be interested to see how much of a response you get.

Regards social (sic) media, most organisers in their right mind avoid it like the plague.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Mo the caller
Date: 21 May 17 - 12:37 PM

The obvious disadvantage of staring something new is that people who already look on Facebook or mudcat might not look at it. I think the official facebook page gets more concerned with the festival as it gets nearer

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 May 17 - 11:34 AM

The other obvious options, besides the existing Facebook page (which isn't too bad) are a Google group/hangout/whetever or a blog like you can get for free on Wordpress.

Anyone like to comment on the advantages and disadvantages of each? The obvious disadvantage of Facebook is the way it restricts access to content in unpredictable ways to coerce people into signing up. Google keeps messing about with their API to make their services inaccessible to people who don't have exactly the right sort of machine, OS and browser (Blogger is the absolute pits for this). Wordpress generally requires you to sign up before you can do anything much.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 17 - 11:25 AM

Without that, there wouldn't be a festival as the fringers are knocking on a bit,
Judging by the informal sessions in the Spa Pavillion bar the young fringers have tickets.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 21 May 17 - 11:10 AM

Excellent!

I was in Middle Earth and The Fleece last year... I am riff raff too, so most observant of you.

The Plough has lost its charm ever since we lost my old friend Jack, whose melodeon was a feature of the yard out back.

Of course, fringe is fun but don't forget to support the festival by paying for an event or two. Without that, there wouldn't be a festival as the fringers are knocking on a bit, so saying, as some do, that without the organised stuff there'll always be the fringe is a bit silly and short sighted.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 May 17 - 07:29 AM

Thanks. I'd thought that if the festival organizers were as restrictive as they seem to be about what they'll take on, they'd be the same way about forum postings. In fact it seems to have the opposite problem - that forum is drowned in stuff utterly irrelevant to WFW, mainly promo for events nowhere near it in time or space.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/129958666651

Who here actually reads that? Or is it write-only for promoters?

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Mo the caller
Date: 21 May 17 - 05:04 AM

Whitby has a facebook page. In fact there are 3

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: JHW
Date: 21 May 17 - 04:52 AM

Thanks Jack, I'll check that out. I stayed out at North Berwick once and trained in. Have used excellent campsite (& caravans) up on the Forth not far from night bus but small site you can't book. Never needed to book Little France. You could make a snap decision to go to Edinburgh and be there.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 May 17 - 08:50 PM

It's probably easier to commute into Edinburgh for the festival than it ever was - lots of places near the Borders Railway route, and the night bus network goes way out of town so if you want to get back to Bonnyrigg at 3am you can do it. In my village there's the Lothianbridge campsite - 10 minutes walk from the Newtongrange railway station, about a minute's walk from the no. 29 bus stop and five minutes from the nearest night bus stop.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: JHW
Date: 20 May 17 - 04:21 PM

'not just randomly wandering around town'
I've done this many times in the past and given up and gone to the Edinburgh Fringe. Alas long since Little France Campsite was built on and too expensive to stay in Edinburgh now.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 17 - 05:52 AM

Yes we still remember when you spoke to some one about going to Whitby you could say I will meet you at The Plough you would call in there just to see who was about.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 May 17 - 12:25 PM

Good idea Jack, the fringe lost it's centre when the Plough ceased to function as the "forum"

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 May 17 - 11:04 AM

I am talking about a forum to arrange places to meet and do things, not just randomly wandering around town and hoping to run into somebody with common interests. For example, I have never met enough people interested in klezmer at one time in Whitby to do anything, and if I had, the result would probably have been crashing somebody else's party.

I'll start a fringe forum myself if one doesn't already exist.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 19 May 17 - 10:40 AM

The Star afteroon Singarounds
The Rifle Club evening singarounds

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: JHW
Date: 19 May 17 - 10:10 AM

The Station (ie across the road from the trains)
3 different rooms

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: alex s
Date: 19 May 17 - 09:10 AM

Riff raff! Charming!
There were some very good musicians in the Middle Earth last year. And no doubt again this year too.

Subject: RE: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 17 - 09:06 AM

The Ship.....Irish music
The Board Inn.... Old time american
The Elsinore.... mainly english
The Endeavour...organised singarounds
The Middle Earth and The Fleece... musical riff raff

Subject: Whitby Folk Week fringe announcements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 May 17 - 05:19 AM

Is there any forum for announcing unofficial events at Whitby during Folk Week? (I didn't think I'd be there this year, but our accommodation has become available again).

The Wailer doesn't exist any more.

Mainly I'd like to get in touch with people interested in kinds of music that official Folk Week doesn't and won't have anything to do with - like the guy I once met walking around the Spa with an Arabic oud on his back. There's enough hours in Folk Week to try quite a lot of stuff not in the programme.