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BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Jun 17 - 07:02 AM i don't think Iains likes Jeremy Corbyn much. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Stu Date: 17 Jun 17 - 06:17 AM "leftards" Well done love. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Iains Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:58 AM Judging by the responses seen on this thread, the leftards do not like to see it pointed out that their hero Corbyn has feet of clay. Well boyos learn to live with it. Insulting me just demonstrates the accuracy of my postings. I would further point out that requisitioning property would require Parliamentary approval. At this moment we have a non functional Parliament. As an Mp Corbyn is well aware of that fact. As I have said he is a pathetic grandstanding politician of the worst kind and if he had a shred of decency he would resign. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Stu Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:32 AM "Do politicians think we are goldfish" The tories, kippers, DUPs, their non-dom press baron bosses and other assorted establishment right-wing nasties positively rely on a large part of the population being goldfish. Selfish, intolerant, unpleasant, subservient and gullible goldfish at that. Iain's original post is proof why this approach works in many cases. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:17 AM Iains quoting from the gutter press to support his obnoxious stance. Oh, what a surprise. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: DMcG Date: 17 Jun 17 - 05:12 AM If it the politics of the gutter you want to examine, the Daily Mail is certainly one of the places to look. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Iains Date: 17 Jun 17 - 03:48 AM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4612718/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Shame-playing-politics-tragedy.html Corbyn is playing the politic of the gutter. I would not trust him to be the janitor of the public urinals. If he had the slightest bit of integrity he would resign forthwith. I have made my comments about the catastrophic fire in the appropriate thread. This thread is about a certain grandstanding politician who is demonstrably unfit for purpose. But of course the minority of his supporters on this thread cannot conceive the reality. Sad, very sick people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Jun 17 - 03:48 AM we'd obviously be better off if we confiscated the money that the duke of westminster keeps for himself as well as the derisory amount we get in tax. this is the basic problem with this country - too few people have got most of the money. i'm amazed i don't have more support on what i should have thought was very obvious. all these guys have got accountants and pay the bare minimum. if you think he pays a lot now - just think how well off we'd be if we grabbed the lot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Jun 17 - 03:47 AM Huge difference, Teribus. Corbyn may be making political gains but it is a by product of helping people. Iain's is attempting to do so by denigrating those trying to help. Ake, it is you, as ever, that has the wrong end of the stick. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Jim Carroll Date: 17 Jun 17 - 03:32 AM "Iains was discussing the legal aspect, not denigrating the victims, " It is denigrating the victims to suggest that it is more important to suggest that a right to a roof over their head is less important than protecting the rights of property owners who wish to leave their propert empty - property before people in extreme trouble How denigraing is that "One of the examples of the blocks of property vacant given belongs to the Algerian Embassy " A total red herring London is full of empty properties that have been that way for years for investment puposes. Property investment on empty buildings has been one of the major money spinners in the capital for decades One of the monuments of that 'industry' was Centrepoint, a massive high-rise office block on Charring Cross road - left empty for a decade for investment purposes Throughout the 1973 oil crisis the owners were allowed to avoid fuel rationing to allow them to heat this empty monstrosity because, if they not beeen allowed to it would have fallen down. JIm Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: akenaton Date: 17 Jun 17 - 02:52 AM I think you have made a mistake and should apologise PFR...your outburst is completely out of character....or I have you figured wrongly. Iains was discussing the legal aspect, not denigrating the victims, and Mr Corbyn, though I support much of what he says, is not above making political points over tragedies.....in common with most politicians. Hope you accept this without rancour, as there is none intended. We should be able to discuss any subject here, as most of us know one another as well as family members. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Teribus Date: 17 Jun 17 - 02:42 AM "He is trying to make political gain out of human tragedy. Sick arsehole." Gnome that is precisely what Corbyn and his supporters have been doing from day one. On the empty property thing - One of the examples of the blocks of property vacant given belongs to the Algerian Embassy and therefore cannot be touched by the British Government. Don't know who "owns" the others. Like most things in life, especially in large, complex and multi-national cities and there are few bigger than London what appears to be a simple solution to an immediate problem is far from being simple or indeed being any form of solution at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Jun 17 - 01:30 AM Gurney - i asure you my insults are very well reasoned and deserved... my mudcat persona is usually more moderate than this.. that arse brings all this upon himself... every word I say to him is carefully thought through and measured... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Gurney Date: 17 Jun 17 - 01:18 AM I'm a stranger to the UK nowadays, so can anyone tell me if the apartments/flats in that burned-out building were rented by their occupants or owned by them? It seems to me from this thread that there wasn't an effective Body Corporate there, or if there was, it was made up of owners and not owner-occupiers. Also, do unoccupied properties over there still attract rates? Here in GodsOwn only private houses do that, not business premises. As an aside, this thread is becoming similar to a lot of others on the wwweb, where personal insults take the place of reasoned argument. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: punkfolkrocker Date: 17 Jun 17 - 12:39 AM several hours of contemplation later... in this weekends Jo Cox spirit of reconciliation. I wish to appologise to that arse for calling him an arse... ..but I'm only human.. I should have called him a fukwitted life draining right wing c@nt... I feel better for that now... it was bothering my conciounce.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Jun 17 - 08:53 PM We're going on an annual walk on Sunday in memory of a gorgeous, lovely, beautiful girl, the daughter of good friends of ours, who died of leukaemia, aged just 25, several years ago. It just so happened to coincide with the Jo Cox day (my sister knew Jo from childhood and is friends with Jo's mum). Sunday will be a poignant day for us lot. Sometimes, focussing on the individual's story instead of trying to see the big picture all the time is what keeps us grounded as human beings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Jun 17 - 08:19 PM Today and this weekend has been designated a commemoration of Jo Cox's belief that we all have more in common than we are different. All around the nation, this is a cross party apolitical celebration of human unity... This most recent disaster and the aftermath emphasises how communities embrace each other in common bond of shared humanity.. ..yet today some sad sour fool named Iains chooses to show himslf up to be a complete and utter bile fueled arsehole... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Jun 17 - 07:47 PM "You need to consider that idiot Corbyn is calling for the overturning of due legal process and trashing property rights to try to score cheap political points. " It was Labour who introduced homes for all back in the 1940s when the peopel of Britain needed them most; it was thatcher who burst that dream by turing homes into investments and disenfranchised many millions of people overnight. There is no question of "winning votes" - homes for all has always been Labour's policy. on the contrary, Corbyn's policy is likely to lose him votes in the rich underbelly of Britain and areas where they swallowed Thatcher's policy of respectablising greed. You quote the European convention of Human Rights - totally immaterial in this situation Even the American Constitution guaranteed "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" " - how about the homeless - how do they get that in your property world How about those who have just been burned out of their homes in the last few days - do thehy have no rights to a roof over their heads, or running clean water, or sanitation Are their rights less important than property owners who wish to leaaave their property empty I find threads like these extremely useful for throwing the spotlight on what your word is all about - total inhumanity - wealth before people's right to live decent lives. Your "lefty" epithet is fine by me - in my lifetime "right" politics sent six million Jews to their deaths in extermination camps; right companies in fascist Germany financed the rise of fascism and used slave labour in their factories, it was right wing dictators who massacred and tortured thousands of its opponents in Chile and Greece and it was right wing Thatcher who described his policies as her kind of democracy and those who attempted to bring Pinoochet to trial as "running a police state" The right, historically has the worst record of human rights abuses and war-crimes on this planet. So feel free to refer to me as a leftie, even if it is not strictly accurate - "the right has nothing to recommend it in today world. Would you like to offer a solution for how to assist those who have been made homeless in this fire - wouldn't tents in Hyde Park offend your rich friends in Park Lane? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Jun 17 - 07:43 PM what an astonishingly insensitive inhumane man... hope he's not a landlord of rented properties.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Jun 17 - 07:15 PM "Trashing property rights?" Hundreds of people have just had all their property trashed by a fire that should never have happened and that wasn't their fault. All you can do is whinge on about the property rights of very wealthy people. Get a life, Iains. And a soul while you're at it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jun 17 - 07:03 PM In fact Article 1 of the first protocol allows the state to deprive individuals of their property and possessions if it is necessary to control the use of property or secure payment of taxes and other charges or penalties. I think that if it actually came to court that could be used to justify requisitioning unused housing in an emergency. And in advance of any such court case it would be perfectly possible to act on that understanding of the law, and requisition the property. As has been pointed out, requisitioning is not the same as confiscation or expropriation. If this has happened a week or so, this might not have been a theoretical exercise, since it is hard to imagine Theresa May having won in the light of this disaster and the shabby way she responded to it. However if Labour does pursue this option, it is far from sure that the current government would be able to defeat it in the Commons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Jun 17 - 06:36 PM You cannot pick and choose bits of the legal code Does that mean your phrase that idiot Corbyn, being a defamatory statement, should be deleted from this forum? You really are a tosser aren't you. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Greg F. Date: 16 Jun 17 - 06:24 PM Say good night, Iains. Or perhaps you just need a cookie, a glass of milk, and a nap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Iains Date: 16 Jun 17 - 06:16 PM No Shaw. You need to consider that idiot Corbyn is calling for the overturning of due legal process and trashing property rights to try to score cheap political points. You may support such miserable tactics for political advantage. I do not. You cannot pick and choose bits of the legal code depending on the phases of the moon or the colour of your hair. You either accept it in its entirety or not all all. None of your trendy leftist posturing can alter this fact. It would be better for all political parties to recognise a human tragedy and work together to ensure it cannot happen again, rather than vying for political kudos on the back of human suffering. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Jon Freeman Date: 16 Jun 17 - 06:03 PM Protocol 1 Art.1 of the European Convention on Human Rights provides: What constitutes "public interest"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Jun 17 - 05:45 PM The European Convention on Human Rights is a piece of paper. Hundreds of people have just lost everything, in many cases including their loved ones, and all you can do is whinge about a vague temporary threat to empty investment properties owned by wealthy people who live in very nice houses already. You need to consider backing off, pal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Jun 17 - 05:32 PM peaceful enjoyment...!!!@??? The town I live in experienced a spate of fires over a short few years before the banks fucked everyone all over.. Oddly enough, mostly large empty properties that might have had historic restrictions on redevelopment.. and civic amenities buildings.... Easier to get planning permission on burnt out rubble... .. just saying... Obviously that would be unthinkable in these tragic circumstances... Not even the worst heartless sociopath tory rich c@nt would even contemplate doing that.....???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Iains Date: 16 Jun 17 - 05:24 PM stop being an idiot shaw! The European Convention on Human Rights, in Protocol 1, article 1 acknowledges a right for natural and legal persons to "peaceful enjoyment of his possessions" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Jun 17 - 05:06 PM When are you going to stop saying "enjoyment of property?" You do not "enjoy" a property you are not living in. If the place was so bloody enjoyable you'd live in it. Those empty properties, worth big mazumas in London of course, are investments. I live in a seaside town that is replete with "properties" that are empty for eleven months out of twelve. The people who own them, as well as the people who own those "properties" in lucrative London, already enjoy their human rights in their main residences, which you can bet your life are not in dangerous tower blocks. How you can set the kinds of "human rights" enjoyed by people who mop up homes for investment and keep them empty alongside the humanitarian disaster delivered by the fire - well, I don't know what planet you're on, frankly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Iains Date: 16 Jun 17 - 04:54 PM David Carter. The BBC"The claim: Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says the government should requisition housing if necessary for those made homeless by the Grenfell Tower fire. Reality Check verdict: Doing so would not be allowed under current rules, and legislation to allow property to be seized in peacetime would be controversial." It is Labour making political capital out of a tragic event and even claiming a D notice has been put on the casualty figures. It is labour fighting the Tories for wanting to drop human rights legislation and quite happy to blithely ignore the same human rights legislation regarding enjoyment of property and talking about requisitioning property. What a sick party! . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Jun 17 - 04:49 PM David Carter has said it all. Back down, Iains. You have absolutely nothing to complain about, oh, unless you'd like to complain about the fact that your leader wouldn't even meet the people affected. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Greg F. Date: 16 Jun 17 - 02:30 PM Rather like Donald Trump. Could Iains be Twitler incognito? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Jun 17 - 02:16 PM He is trying to make political gain out of human tragedy. Sick arsehole. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: David Carter (UK) Date: 16 Jun 17 - 01:50 PM You are being an arse Iains. For a start, requisition and confiscate are completely different actions. Property was requisitioned during the war. It was returned once the emergency had ended. For a second thing, they are only talking about unoccupied properties. For a third thing you quote the idiot who disguises himself (or maybe herself) as Guido Fawkes. This idiot is a well known tinfoil hat merchant. For a fourth thing the Mail, which I would never use even to wipe my arse lest it be sullied, has been trying to link this tragedy to environmental legislation. After supporting Hitler, you would think that it was impossible to go lower, but the Mail has managed it. For a fifth point, property rights are not human rights. They are a tenet of capitalism, but that is one system among many. Human rights are on a higher plane entirely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Jun 17 - 01:26 PM What the fuck are you doing Iaians Why are you turning a massive tragedy into an attack on a rival party How much lower can YOU stoop? "why have these homes not already been used to house the homeless?" Because it takes a tragedy to galvanise people into doing something about the massive number of empty properties in the Capital These buildings were in the spotlight as long ago as 1969 when an army of Police evicted protesting squatters from an empty mansion at 144 Piccadilly, Marble Arch The deliberate act of keeping these buildings empty for years on end for the purpose of profiteering has always been a disgrace in London Nothing new here "rule of law" - don't you mean pursuit of profit? The law is made by property owners and profiteers - it always has been Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Jun 17 - 01:25 PM How much lower can you stoop seeking rational for your warped sense of humanity than linking to arsewipe guido's shite-site...??? Law or not.. burnt out homeless families + empty properties = a fairly obnvious humane conclusion... Still waiting for rich property owners to step up and voluntarily do the right thing in a crisis... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Iains Date: 16 Jun 17 - 12:57 PM How much lower can labour stoop? https://order-order.com/2017/06/16/corbynistas-peddle-grenfell-d-notice-fake-news/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Iains Date: 16 Jun 17 - 12:54 PM Steve. The point i make is that Corbyn partly campaigned on the basis the tories would unravel human rights legislation and this encompasses property rights. Now when it suits he demands that those same human rights be overturned and adjacent property requisitioned. To accomplish this legally would take months and be fought in the courts both here and in Europe with little chance of success. It was a cheap political shot that he knew full well had no chance of success within any meaningful time frame. He and his supporters are trying to make further political capital out of it by claiming the government has put a d notice on the casualty figures Both Corbyn and many posting here live in a leftard la la land where the rule of law is sacrificed for expediency. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jun 17 - 12:46 PM There is a hierarchy of human rights. The human right of the survivors of this disaster to a place to live ranks far higher than the property rights of people with empty property. That's not a particularly leftwing way of seeing it either. Requisitioning resources needed in a crisis has been something governments of all kinds have seen themselves as entitled to do - and have been backed in the courts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Jun 17 - 12:40 PM Of course. But laws are there to benefit people and they can be changed. We call it democracy. Iains started this thread with a vicious swipe at Jeremy Corbyn's character for suggesting that the unused assets of the rich might be used in an emergency to help homeless people whose lives have been destroyed, not with an investigation of whether Corbyn was being realistic in terms of the law. The reality check discussion represents a welcome quiet change of tack if nothing else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Nigel Parsons Date: 16 Jun 17 - 12:19 PM Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Jim Carroll - PM Date: 16 Jun 17 - 11:33 AM "Reality Check verdict: Doing so would not be allowed under current rules, and legislation to allow property to be seized in peacetime would be controversial." Reality check Iains It would be unbelievably inhuman to allow properties to stand empty while there are so many people in desperate need of a roof over their heads, whatever the law says. What kind of people would allow that, and what kinD of people would support it by hiding behind the law? If the question were as simple, and clear-cut as you seem to suggest, why have these homes not already been used to house the homeless? We need (most of us) to have some regard for the rule of law. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: DMcG Date: 16 Jun 17 - 12:18 PM Hardly horny-handed sons of toil, are they! Not that they have been quoted directly, but I do find it mildly amusing that The Adam Smith Institute and their like seem not to have actually read what Adam Smith wrote. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Jun 17 - 11:57 AM The Duke of Westminster and the Queer Old Dean (and her extensive band of hangers-on) don't "earn" money, Teribus. They MAKE money. Hardly horny-handed sons of toil, are they! I suppose they may get RSI from all that hand-waving, the poor dears. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Teribus Date: 16 Jun 17 - 11:43 AM Big Al Whittle - 16 Jun 17 - 10:39 AM i think its a great idea confiscating property. start with the prince wales - if we had the rents from all his lands going into the coffers instead of his pockets, we'd all be better off. then the duke of westminster - then the queen. whats wrong with that? I dare say that the present Duke of Westminster is one of the top 1% of "earners" who pays something like 29.8% of all tax recovered by HMRC. The bottom 50% pay something like 9.7% of all tax recovered. As for HM The Queen (Duchy of Lancaster) and HRH The Prince of Wales (Duchy of Cornwall) well they already contribute millions to HMRC. I think those contributions plus those of The Crown Estate come in at something like £320 million a year. Will you still be cheering when they come to confiscate what you have Big Al? Or are you a typical "socialist" who's all for sharing everything until it comes to sharing what they own? By all means let them requisition vacant properties, but accept that the costs associated with the exercise will be enormous (Not normally a factor that ever clouds Labour Party schemes). . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Jun 17 - 11:33 AM "Reality Check verdict: Doing so would not be allowed under current rules, and legislation to allow property to be seized in peacetime would be controversial." Reality check Iains It would be unbelievably inhuman to allow properties to stand empty while there are so many people in desperate need of a roof over their heads, whatever the law says. What kind of people would allow that, and what kinD of people would support it by hiding behind the law? RHETORICAL QUESTION, OF COURSE - the residents of Carrickmines did Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Iains Date: 16 Jun 17 - 11:16 AM A reality check http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40303142 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Big Al Whittle Date: 16 Jun 17 - 10:39 AM i think its a great idea confiscating property. start with the prince wales - if we had the rents from all his lands going into the coffers instead of his pockets, we'd all be better off. then the duke of westminster - then the queen. whats wrong with that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Jim Carroll Date: 16 Jun 17 - 10:32 AM "Among the many complexities of Brexit is Prime Minister Theresa May's determination to pull the United Kingdom out of the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights (EHCR). This idea, announced in a number of speeches and interviews before the June 2016 referendum while Theresa May was Home Secretary, is now likely to become a central tenet of the Conservative Party manifesto for the 2020 general election campaign. " Institute of International and European Affairs It will be interesting to see what deal she does with DUP with regard to their opposition to Same Sex Marriage, Pregnancy Termination, Creationism and Line Dancing!! At least Corbyn's claimed association with terrorists will no longer be an issue given DUP's TRACK RECORD Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Greg F. Date: 16 Jun 17 - 10:28 AM Do politicians think we are goldfish Not you, Iains - you're obviously one sick puppy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property From: Rapparee Date: 16 Jun 17 - 09:43 AM After Brexit, will the "European Convention on Human Rights" still apply? |
