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BS: Our remarkable friend
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Subject: Our remarkable friend From: GeorgeH Date: 16 Dec 99 - 01:31 PM I just had to share this true tale with someone, and this wonderful community seems the appropriate place . . . As some of you will have picked up in other messages, one of the reasons I'm very short of time is that one of our very best friends is currently visiting the UK. Ahlam is an arab, from the Yemen, and we've known her for almost 30 years - although for 28.5 of them our contacts with her have been spasmodic (it's 5 years since we last saw her). We've long known her to be remarkable - in her integrety, her courage, determination and strength of purpose; in her sheer humanity. The more we know her the more apparent this becomes. She is - as far as she knows - the only arab woman in the Yemen who continues to refuse to adopt "the veil" - despite abuse and threats she continues to wear "modest" western dress (i.e. with full-length skirts). For more than 20 years she has worked as an architect - for local government with extra work in private practice. (This year, for the first time, she's brought photos of some of her projects with her, and very impressive they are). For a woman to succeed professionally in this way in her society is, one might say, unusual. Apparently in Yemeni houses the kitchen is, traditionally, in a basement. However, Ahlam will not follow this tradition. She says "the woman may spend 16 hours a day in the kitchen; why should she be shut up in the dark like an animal?" And if she cannot prevail over a prospective client on this point she simply declines the work. More recently, she was offered a job overseeing the constrution of a large dwelling, to an original design from an architect from another Arab country. Being a non-Yemeni design the kitchen was on the ground (US: first) floor; facing onto the garden. But the only windows were small and high up, above eye level. She challenged the original architect about this and was told "the servants are ignorant; they don't want to be able to look out at the garden." So she replied "Fine. If they don't want to look out then they can draw the blinds. Either the kitchen windows are changed or I won't take the job." The windows were changed. Knowing Ahlam has enriched our lives for almost as long as we've been together. We hope we will long continue to benefit from her friendship. G.
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 16 Dec 99 - 01:36 PM Ahlam sounds like a remarkable woman. Thanks for telling us about her! I hope you're having a great visit! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Dec 99 - 02:23 PM Tell her to come on over to the Mudcat Cafe anytime. And there's a good session in Stortford this Sunday evening in the Half Moon where Yemeni songs would go down a bomb. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: --seed Date: 16 Dec 99 - 02:30 PM George, may she be a seed from which a new freedom for Arabic women may sprout--and for oppressed women throughout the world. A truly heroic person. --seed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: emily rain Date: 16 Dec 99 - 02:38 PM no kidding. what an awesome life story she must have. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Rick Fielding Date: 16 Dec 99 - 06:18 PM Wow. Thanks George. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Marymac90 Date: 16 Dec 99 - 06:41 PM Incredible. Thanks for sharing this. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Emmie Date: 16 Dec 99 - 07:05 PM She is incredibly brave. Wow. I feel very inspired when I hear about people like her. Emmie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: katlaughing Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:54 PM Thanks, George, it is wonderful that you shared that with us. It reminds me of the women from Afghanistan whom I email back and forth with. They are running their own campaign for equality out of Pakistan. I am in awe of their and your friend's courage. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Little Neophyte Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:29 PM Thank you for sharing that George. Ahlam is a gift, lighting the way for others. BB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: GeorgeH Date: 17 Dec 99 - 06:20 AM Thanks for those responses; I appreciate them . . And as for hers being a remarkable story, I haven't told the half of it! But I should also have mentioned that at the same time as carving out her career she's brought up three kids, now aged between 13 and 19. (Not wishing to exagerate her achievement, this is in a society where having domestic help is the norm for professional families.) And when I told her neice that Ahlam was the most remarkable person I'd ever known Ahlam was embarassed by the suggestion . . G. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: _gargoyle Date: 17 Dec 99 - 09:26 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Davey Date: 17 Dec 99 - 09:53 AM George, that's absolutely inspirational.. With women like her actively working to change repressive traditions, there is indeed hope for the future Davey... (:>) |
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Subject: Our unremarkable _gargoyle From: The Gargoyle Hunter Date: 17 Dec 99 - 09:59 AM My dearest _gargoyle You are an insignificant, contradictory piss-ant. You like to bitch at those who don't use the BS prefix; you like to bitch at those who use the BS prefix; you like to bitch at those who post about anything other than music. My conclusion: You like to bitch. This being the case, your name still appears in almost every BS thread. Isn't the purpose of the BS prefix to save you precious time from having to read BS threads? Make up your mind and shut your hole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Bert Date: 17 Dec 99 - 10:03 AM Hunter! SHUT UP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Big Mick Date: 17 Dec 99 - 10:06 AM I have tried to point out before, and I will try once more. The more you acknowledge this person, the more you feed his appetite. The answer lies in ignoring the posts. But he knows, and I am afraid he is right, that the rest of you cannot ignore him..............hence he will feed off you. Too bad, really. He is indeed outsmarting us. Big Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Bert Date: 17 Dec 99 - 10:22 AM Well I thought it was quite a reasonable post, this 'is' a folk site after all. While Gargoyle does have a 'thing' about BS threads (I love them, myself) he is quite entitled to his opinion. There 'are' folk songs from Yemen and I also would like to hear any and don't think that it's at all out of line to ask. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Jeri Date: 17 Dec 99 - 10:38 AM Bert and Mick, GGH thinks he/she is doing something to improve life here. Until the realization dawns on him/her that he/she is making things worse by allowing gargoyle to provoke a response, he/she will continue to rationalize this petty stalking. Until that happens, there are two people who's contributions I go out of my way to avoid. Back to the subject... George, Ahlam has a great deal of my respect. It's one thing to live in countries where women have more rights, and say "Those women over there ought not to put up with the conditions. They ought to stand up for themselves." It's quite another to see what happens when someone tries it. Risking ostracism is on a par with risking death. In some places, it may actually equal risking death. There is a song in there somewhere, about changing society a bit at a time...about giving women a window into the garden... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Peter T. Date: 17 Dec 99 - 10:44 AM Dear George, Like everyone else, thanks for sharing your friend's story with us. Rick was asking us one day where all the heroes had gone. Well, there's one. I find her story almost unbelievable, knowing what that world is like. But it reminds us what a waste of many of the other women in that world, all those hidden talents. yours, Peter . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Big Mick Date: 17 Dec 99 - 11:09 AM Thanks to several for pulling me back to the subject at hand. I am astounded by this woman. Jeri is right on the mark when she points out that this woman is literally risking her life. This is truly a hero of the first order, and a terrific role model for those trying to teach their children that some things are worth making a stand for. No matter the consequence. GeorgeH, you have created one of the special threads on the 'Cat. All the best, Big Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Caitrin Date: 17 Dec 99 - 05:14 PM Wow. Thank you for sharing Ahlam's story. It is a genuine inspiration. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Date: 17 Dec 99 - 10:49 PM George ask her for a folksong it would be a nice addition to have one from Yemen. Do you hate gargoyle because he centered his text? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 18 Dec 99 - 12:07 AM I agree wholeheartedly with Mick--this is a great thread. I'd like to forget a few of the posts, but I'm thankful that George introduced us to this woman. --seed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: GeorgeH Date: 20 Dec 99 - 12:18 PM As far as I know (and from our conversations with Ahlam) the folk song of Yemen is in Arabic (this isn't entirely the case in other Arab countries, but that's another matter) which puts it texturally beyond me. And I don't have the musical skills or the computing tools to transcribe a tune to a suitable format. . But (sorry!!) music isn't central to our conversations with Ahlam. As I indicated, I was so amazed by this latest detail of her life I felt I HAD to share it, and this seemed the place to do so. The response justifies that feeling, IMO, though I respect the view of those who think Mudcat isn't the place for "non-musical" conversation. Insofaras music features in our dealings with Ahlam it's music from our (Mudcat) culture, chosen to show that within that culture there are those more sympathetic to Arab causes than the "official" lines of the governments of the UK and US would suggest. Regards G. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: InOBU Date: 20 Dec 99 - 12:54 PM A little song for Ahlam, from her Irish Sisters and Brothers in Progressive Change Christy Moore sings it, anyone know who wrote it? From the health center porch, she looks to the north Feudal landlords we've known, seen overthrown, Afghanistan come into view Soldiers kicked down her door, called her a whore, as he lingered in Castleriegh A note on the spirit of this post... I don't mean to say that Moslem faith is by itself oppressive. For many who chose to wear the veil, it has great meaning. However, any faith that is forced on anyone, must be by definition, as Jefferson put it, (with an unfortunate pronoun) "a tyranny over the minds of men". Also, I post this, not to debate the north, GeorgeH, old friend, but as a reminder from Bodecia to Brunette Devlin McCalisky, the Greenham Common women, the Long Green Line in New York, Yvette Micheal - spokesperson for the Innu of Mani Utenam, women have made progressive HERstory - and often with a quiet strength to which we men of change should pay some heed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: annamill Date: 20 Dec 99 - 01:27 PM Don't you sometime wish we could bring all the oppressed peoples here? Ahlam sounds like a remarkable person and I wish her well. Thank you for sharing her with us. I'd like to hear a folksong from Yemen myself. Love, annap |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Big Mick Date: 20 Dec 99 - 01:53 PM There is no such thing as a non-musical conversation where it concerns human trials and toils. How is the bard to address the ills, and triumphs of the human condition if he/she never hear the stories of people like our remarkable Ahlam? To those that continue with their inane arguments about the conversations, funny, happy, sad, mad, that they don't like.........bugger off. If you cannot see the importance of this type of interaction between folksingers, I am afraid you will never quite get it. As for me, I wish that I could write this woman's song. In fact, maybe I will give it a try. Big Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: emily rain Date: 20 Dec 99 - 01:58 PM right on, big guy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Peter T. Date: 20 Dec 99 - 06:11 PM George, if you get a chance to reply to my e-mail, I'd appreciate it. And while I am here, I too would like to wonder what do these people think music is -- some sort of mathematical puzzle? Archaeology? If this sort of story doesn't make you want to start a revolution or break out into song, what on earth is going on in you, if anything? (Sorry to creep). Yemeni crickets! yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Guy Wolff Date: 20 Dec 99 - 06:51 PM The inspiration of optomisum in the site of adversaty is the center of human nobility..Thank you for making my day... This is the best of our mudcat...All the best, Guy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: northfolk/al cholger Date: 20 Dec 99 - 07:19 PM Big Mick, You and I are steeped in the cauldron of struggle. Sometimes that struggle manifests itself in the issues that confront our sisters every day...and Ahlam's life is one example of the most extreme oppression of women. But the harder struggle, is how we motivate our brothers and sisters to understand and engage around the issue of justice, because once we succeed with that, we will unleash the force that can challenge all of the other inequities. Best wishes for a new year full of Solidarity and Prosperity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: johnp Date: 20 Dec 99 - 07:37 PM Thank you GeorgeH for the best story of true courage that I have heard for a long time. It puts the petty bickering into context. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: poet Date: 20 Dec 99 - 07:40 PM George a little thought for you. I understand the language problem but maybe you could write a song to celebrate the initiative and strength (for strong she surely must be) of the lady Ahlam. But If you can't then shake her hand for me. Graham (Guernsey) PS what happened to chat line I've had serious crash problems and been off line for a while. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: Liz the Squeak Date: 21 Dec 99 - 03:08 AM George, she sounds like the sort of woman who was throwing herself under racehorses at the beginning of this century in the UK. It stuns me that as we approach the next century, there are still societies that treat certain individuals as third class citizens simply because of their gender, preference or abilities. If we could somehow enlighten those less fortunate, at home here as well as abroad, then maybe we will get a decade of peace, something there hasn't been since before WWI. My heart goes with her and her struggle, I was told that I couldn't take an apprenticeship as a painter and decorator, two years after the introduction of the sex discrimination act, and lead a life of frustrated office jobs and unemployment for years after that.... And that was in the dear old liberated UK. I don't have a kitchen window either, and if the back door wasn't half glazed, there'd be no light there at all. There is a song there and I think I may have it, but I have to find a tune. In the meantime, play her Roy Bailey singing 'Rosa's lovely daughters', and a big sisterly hug from me... LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: GeorgeH Date: 21 Dec 99 - 06:42 AM Guys (in the gender-free sense) I need to respond to some of the further comments, but I need time to collect thoughts and emotions before I do so. And Peter T - I will reply to your email today; I needed time to consider (and consult) on that reply. Thanks for your continued interest and support. G. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: InOBU Date: 21 Dec 99 - 08:38 AM Dear Annap: As to bringing all the oppressed people here, we have first to stop oppressing the oppressed here! The most recent of many stories that comes to mind is the Chinese girl, fifteen years old, now in a jail in Seatle. She has been granted political asylum and for more than a year, while the INS is taking their time investigating her sponsor family, she is held with violent offenders in a comon jail cell, treated as all the other prisoners are treated. She is reported to be frightened and confused at her treatment. When she is moved from place to place she is made to wear leg chains, a belly chain that her handcuffs are chained to... and her only offence, was to come here fleeing oppression! She made the mistake of fleeing to a nation with the largest number of humans in jail, in which iron bars are becoming the solution to more and more problems. Before we can welcome the oppressed, we have a lot to do about understanding freedom. Yes Annap, bring the oppressed here, but bring freedom here as well! Love and solidarity Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: GeorgeH Date: 21 Dec 99 - 12:58 PM OK, some reactions. Some of which I make 'cause I think Ahlam would disagree with parts of her picture as it emerges here (she'd be embarrassed at my citing her example in the first place; while she knows how remarkable we believe her to be she always dismisses such claims). On this and her previous visit we've said to her that she ought to write her autobiography; the light-hearted discussion that's followed, both times, has concluded that to do so would be a waste of time since no-one would believe it. That, and other factors, constrain how much more I can say about her own story. InObu, I appreciate most of your quoted song, and reckon Ahlam would. Though (and I'll return to this) she doesn't see herself as a fighter. And, I suspect, she'd feel uncomfortable, as I do, at "In the twilight she stands, with rifle in hand". Not because of a belief that armed struggle is always wrong, but because of a distaste for violence and a suspicion that it is often engaged in as a means of doing SOMETHING rather than as the most effective way of moving forward (which is not to deny either the courage or strength of committment of those who do choose to express their legitimate political/social aspirations through violence). And, funnily enough, one of my finest 'O' level students threw over going on to 'A' level studies to join the Greenham peace camp; most of our staff thought her crazy; I have always admired her courage (see comments elsewhere about learning from our children). And I grant that both her and Ahlam were taking steps in the "unfinishe revolution" (which seems to be suffering all to many reverses these days). I don't think any faith (as in "system of belief") is opressive, but men can use any faith to oppressive ends. Though blind faith (in any sense, religious or other) is always dangerous. One can argue that Islam is more liberal than Christianity, though my knowledge doesn't extend to such a discourse, and past experience suggests that such a debate tends to descend into swapping repressive tracts from the different holy books, ignoring the contradictions inherent in each side. In learning more about Islamic society from Ahlam the phrase "there's nothing to say this in the Quoran" is fairly common!! Annap, I'm entirely with InObu on the suggestion we should bring the oppressed people here . . And Ahlam's choice - or perhaps "wish" is closer - is to remain in her home society, where she can make some small difference in the state of those far less fortunate than herself. Would Ahlam accept her society as providing "most extreme oppression of women"? I'm sure not; we could find far worse examples (in case anyone doubts, I'll just say the opression of women in Ahlam's society is only a more extreme example of that which many women suffer in our own - UK and US - societies; it doesn't compare with such practices as, say, genital mutilation). But more particularly, she would resent her society being characterised as being more primative because of its treatment of women (and while that may not have been anyone's intent, it might well have been her first reaction to a couple of the expressions of support offered here). In our conversations with her she is ready to criticise her society, but in a context where we are equally ready to accept the failings of our own. Is her society any "worse" than that of the UK or US, where the populations support their governments inflicting untold suffering on hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian populations of Iraq or "former Yugoslavia", to no clear political or practical end? Can we judge one as worse than the other? Is there anything to be gained in attempting to do so? But finally, does Ahlam see herself as a fighter for improvements in her country? Probably not . . because in a highly unequal struggle the fighters are too easily eliminated. She is, above all, a pragmatist, accepting the limitations of what's possible (OK, and stepping a little beyond them!); and doing what she can to work within them to effect improvement. Definitely she would see herself as a worker more than a fighter. And sorry to have gone on even further! G.
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: _gargoyle Date: 22 Dec 99 - 04:22 AM It is unfortunate ...that you are illiterate in the areas of music and language and therefore are unable to share your guest's knowledge.
Here are a few links, to help her feel at home.
The Music & Sounds of Yemen
Traditional music in the Yemen
Arabic Classical Music
Ask her female circumcision in her culture.
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Subject: RE: BS: Our remarkable friend From: GeorgeH Date: 22 Dec 99 - 07:01 AM Thanks for the links, gargoyle. From our respective musical tastes they are of more interest to us than to Ahlam. I KNEW I was getting on dangerous ground with the passing reference to female circumcision (a euphemistic term anyway, IMO). My point was that while many (most?) of the cultures which have that practice are Muslim, it does not feature in the majority of Muslim cultures. It isn't part of the "social expectation" of the great majority of Arab women, unlike the "different" treatment typified by "the veil". And even that "different" treatment is a far from simple subject, for which this isn't really the forum. Regards G. |