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BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Jul 17 - 12:41 AM The Winner by Michael Cooney. Dedicated to each and every one of you. ♫ Good night, good night, good night ♫ (from a different Cooney song). |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Jul 17 - 12:03 AM Dani has plans to build an Old Mudcatters Home next to her house in North Carolina. With her great cooking, we'd all be happy as clams. No need for endless battles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:38 PM If mudcat is any indication of what daily existence might be like... I really don't want to end up in an old folks care home... 😜 |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 10:27 PM The fraud thing? It has to do with his strange presence in the "Brigades" thread. I was duly puzzled about how he could have so much to say in that thread, without ever saying anything about Spain or Franco or the Brigades or the Spanish Civil War. I had seen him do that in a few other threads, goading on the battle without ever actually saying anything at all about the topic of discussion. A fraud, indeed. Cleverly evasive, perhaps; but a genuine fraud. Seems to me there was another fraud years ago. Remember him, Jeri? The guy was convinced that there were Nazis posting at Mudcat. Trouble was, they didn't post enough. So, he logged out and posted Nazi stuff anonymously. Then he logged in again and got on his white horse and did battle against his own anonymous posts. But I don't want to get into that stuff. I don't see any way to settle all the conflicts here, and that's not my job. I'd just like to see actual, interesting discussion. I find all the petty squabbling to be downright boring. But hey, I'm done with Greg the Fraud. He likes to manipulate people, but doesn't really have much of substance to say. I called his bluff, and I see he's actually talking about issues in this thread. I'm through with Jew-hating, too. It got really boring. Jim, maybe you could take the hint before everybody falls asleep on you. I can't do anything about it. You can't do anything about it. Most likely, it will go away if you stop paying so much attention to it. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning. As for Jeri, I don't know what to do about her. Obviously, she's having a bad day. She'll get over it. No, come to think of it, maybe it's a bad week. She's been grouchy for a long, long time. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: olddude Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:29 PM The only thing I know is too many really good people that I enjoyed talking with have left mudcat.. It is very sad that in a pond so small as this forum we always have tobeat each oother over political stuff.. And all of the political guys could care less about any of us. Pretty silly don't you think. What political officials have helped any one of us... Exactly none.. Couldn't care less if we support them or hate them yet we will lose friends over them.. Really silly I think but what do I know |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:17 PM That's OK, Jeri- The All-Powerful Wizard Joe The Hypocrite gets his kicks throwing his weight around, taunting lesser mortals and getting away with bullshit that would get others - well, others who aren't the chosen few he adopts and protects- suspended or banned. As I know from sad experience. I know it, you know it. I suspect even Max knows it. Just let Ol' Joe get on playing his games. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jeri Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:09 PM Personally, I think some of the thread-pissers ought to be relegated to music threads only for a while. That might cut down on the repetitive garbage. Wondering how much trouble I'll get in... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 09:04 PM That probably isn't going anywhere in this thread, Jim. Leave him to it. Looking at his contributions to this thread so far he looks like a miserable and obsessive misfit who doesn't know how to join in. May he stand alone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:47 PM "Definition of Anti-Semitism" "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel. " How does this square with describing all criticism of Israel "Jew hating or "Antisemitic" ? By doing so, you automatically "hold Jews collectively responsible for actions of The State of Israel" Would appreciate an answer that doesn't include the usual "Jew hater" response Every time you do so you become an antisemite by your own quoted definition Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:30 PM I'll talk about BBQ sauces any time. Or wild flowers. Or my hols in Spain and Italy. Or how tight-fisted Yorkshiremen are. You start, I'll follow. I'm a joiner-in far more than I'm an instigator. As for troublesome threads, just ignore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: keberoxu Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:28 PM Michaelr, I bow to you. You said what I am too chicken to say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: michaelr Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:22 PM What I don't get is why all of you that get into the same old shit-slinging contests over and over again on multiple threads would WANT to keep doing that. It's abundantly clear that you're never going to convince the other side to your point(s) of view. I've thought for a long time that the BS section should be closed down, or at least restricted to disallow political and religious discussion. The forum would be better for it. I first came here for information on folk songs, which has been plentiful, and have found occasion to contribute, which pleases me. The BS section has mostly interested me for the recipes shared (I remember with particular fondness the effort to recreate a certain BBQ sauce). All the shouting about politics seems to me to be a huge waste of time and energy. I live in a country that has chosen Donald Trump as its leader, but I know better than to argue with those who support him. I don't know about you all, but I would think you could find better things to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:22 PM Lest we forget during this stats-fest, before last year's rule-change bobad used to post both as bobad and as an anonymous guest, the latter generally in the hope that we wouldn't spot that it was him hurling his insults from below the parapet. He claimed that it was so that we would debate the point, not attack the man. That's a bit ironic when one considers that almost all his posts below the line are man-attacks... anyway, due to that the comparative posting figures, a red herring in any case, may be a bit closer than stated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Jul 17 - 08:15 PM Oops. I didn't read far enough back up and gave Reinhard his own thread on YouTube topics. He seemed to have walked into a gunfight with a knife so I moved him. It sounded like a reasonable topic on it's own. Apologies. Back to the squabble. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jeri Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:58 PM "Greg the Fraud"??!! What do you mean by that, Joe the Paternalistic Ass-Butt? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:50 PM Now, look at how many times bobad posts (10,774). Then look at how many times Greg_F posts (12,622). Gee whiz, Joe. Bobad "ONLY" posted 11,000 times. Lets apply your famous logic, shall we? 1- Does that number include all of his posts that have been deleted? Must be several thousand of them at least. 2-Earliest post I can find for Bobad is 2005. I've been posting here since 1998 if not earlier. Care to try again? Or are you reprising "Lying With Statistics"? Nor does any of that begin to explain why Bobas hasn't been sanctioned. If you calls 'em as you sees 'em, consider a trip to an optometrist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:14 PM Such complexities elude me, Joe. I carry out certain of life's tasks with reasonable elegance, but tussling with things like links and stuff isn't one of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:07 PM Steve, the YouTube link comes from Topic, so I assumed that was from Topic in the UK - but I've had experience with many other Topic YouTube videos not playing in the UK. I wonder what the story is behind the Topic YouTube videos, and why they don't play in the UK. I was thinking that the Topic videos came from the publishers and would be more reliable than videos put up by Joe Public. That seems to be true, but apparently they don't play in multiple countries. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:05 PM But you are not treating them equally. For a start, you called only Greg a name. Which, I believe, is one of the reasons you banned him. Ironic, I'd say. OK. I'm being flippant, but whatever else Greg is he's not a fraud. Mind you, there are several of them about. Now who was it who was deliberately posting under two identities... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:59 PM Got it here just by googling Peter Dawson Lost Chord. What a man he was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:53 PM Oh, good, I answered the right question. Now, look at how many times bobad posts (10,774). Then look at how many times Greg_F posts (12,622). -Joe "I calls 'em as I sees 'em" Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:52 PM When was the last time Bobad and/or his "cohorts" were suspended, pray? The difference may lie in the fact that I can back up my accusations with proof. See: Definition of Anti-Semitism |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:52 PM I don't speak American but "dang" sounds like the only appropriate response to a vanished post. I've lost a good few because they haven't taken for some reason. Select all-copy is the iPad way. Complaining about deletions is a fool's game. The complaints rarely work, and never if you moan in public. The YouTube doesn't work. I'm sure I can find it this end but you know about me and links, don't you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:36 PM I am truly confused about what question I'm supposed to answer. Oh please, Joe, I can't make it any plainer. But I'll try again - maybe you're having a bad day. You claim: ""there's really not much that moderators can do about such name-calling" And yet, you refer to my "recent month-long suspension" which was imposed, as you told me repeatedly in PMs, was for "calling people names". I'll gladly post those PMs here, if your mermory needs jogging. When was the last time Bobad and/or his "cohorts" were suspended, pray? And for how long? Use that logic you frequently enjoin others to employ; you can't have it both ways. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Senoufou Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:24 PM Haha Steve. As long as it wasn't played by Les Dawson! (Most of his chords were lost.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:22 PM My experience is that most Lost Posts, are lost for technological reasons, and not because of censorship. I lose lots of posts. I try to remember to highlight [CTRL-A] and copy [CTRL-C] things before posting. But sometimes when I'm deeply involved in posting something particularly profound, I plumb forget to copy my text. I hit "submit," and it's gone. Dang. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:18 PM It was The Lost Chord, Greg. Never better sung than by the great Peter Dawson. Seated one day at the organ, I was weary and ill at ease, And my fingers wander'd idly over the noisy keys; I knew not what I was playing, or what I was dreaming then, But I struck one chord of music like the sound of a great Amen. Peter Dawson's "Lost Chord": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGS7Jk03fgg [does it work in UK? -Joe Offer-] |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:16 PM Jim, you're repeating yourself. I stated what I had to say quite clearly the first time, and I restated it in this thread. Not wanting to be accused of being a dottering old fool repeating the same thing over again, I will refrain. Greg_F, I am truly confused about what question I'm supposed to answer. I think it was something about my statement about moderators not being able to control what Mudcatters say. Considering what you've been able to get away with saying despite your recent month-long suspension, I'd say you're living proof. As for the political structure of Israel, it gets interestinger and interestinger as I read more. This BBC article says there were 34 political parties running for 120 seats in the Knesset in 2013. The ultra-Orthodos Shas Party is the minority party that seems to have far more sway than its 7-member Knesset membership should allow it. It has a U.S. office in Brooklyn. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:06 PM The Lost Post ..... lemmie see..... wasn't that written by Sir Arthur Sullivan, Steve? Or am I confusing it with a bugle call? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jul 17 - 06:02 PM "When someone complains not about the issues, but about the lack of enough Israeli dead, guess what I'm tempted to think about them?" And guess what we think of you for making such a vacuous and stupid remark. As for your repeated moaning and groaning about lost posts in another thread, well personally I don't give a flying fart about lost posts, still less can I remember what they were about. At my age my cranial hard drive is already too stuffed with things to do with real life. It's all part of our jolly old internet life. I suppose there are dedicated people who archive all their posts. Well I ain't one of 'em and my advice on lost posts would be (a) forget it, and (b) get a life. Like Clementine, they are lost and gone forever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:04 PM " I'll side with the left and we can drop all the posturing" Doublealk Joew Youu accused me of hating Jews Prove it or apologise - simple as that Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:03 PM anyone with an ounce of sense can see who is right and wrong without the need for further abuse. Aye, Dave, Point taken. I'd like to believe that was so, but there's times I'm not so sure. For example, most recently there's a gent whose name begins with J who's having difficulty making that distinction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 05:02 PM Your 2 last posts had nothing to do with the thread but were just having a gratuitous dig at others. I was inspired by your pal Carroll referring to posters as "goose steppers" in his last post. I guess you have no problem with that but then why would you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: robomatic Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:59 PM Raggytash: When someone complains not about the issues, but about the lack of enough Israeli dead, guess what I'm tempted to think about them? |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:58 PM Sorry Greg, as much as many would agree, that post is just the same :-( We can all be better than this. I may seem a fine one to talk but I like to believe that when I get involved it is usually because someone has told a lie or misinterpreted something. It would be easier just to let it go but when that lie is about me or something I hold dear I cannot help but be defensive. I accept that there are some people you just cannot reason with but everyone is aware of that and anyone with an ounce of sense can see who is right and wrong without the need for further abuse. I think! :-) DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: robomatic Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:57 PM Steve Shaw: Thank you for the spelling correction. As for your comment, all I can say is that it is accurate to my single post above, (and you correctly inferred that I was implying you as an acolyte). But I have spent a lot of time on longer posts and been treated with condescension and worse, and you are certainly one of those culprits, most recently in the "International Brigades" thread, though several of our posts were redacted, including the one where I asked if anyone had bothered to look up "Mary McGregor!" and you responded quite deliberately with nothing but a put-down (which I say again, coming from you I took as a compliment). So you're a heater, not a lighter (except for the spelling correction, which is useful)! |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:46 PM Err... its not SUPPOSED to help, he's a jerk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Dave the Gnome Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:37 PM But you are just goading people, Bobad. It is no wonder that you get the reaction you provoke and hope for. Your 2 last posts had nothing to do with the thread but were just having a gratuitous dig at others. How does that help? DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:35 PM Bob - sticks 'n' stones... 🙄 "Nazi hater", "storm trooper hater", "jack booter hater", "Islamophobe hater", "bigot hater", "racist hater", "fascist hater", "goose stepper hater" ... even "duck hater"... i'm a big bloke.. you can call me any of them, any time you like... Except I've never really gone in much for hate.. it's too much like hard work and emotional effort.. I prefer looking for the good in even the worst people, and looking forwards to reconciliation.. You might wanna try that for a change.. it's aright.. you can.. really.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:30 PM Joe said Jim, while I do not think that you are a Jew-hater, you made a broad comparison of Israel and Nazi Germany in a way that could be considered to be anti-Semitic. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: bobad Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:22 PM They beat their breasts over "Jew hater" but have no problem calling others "Nazi", "storm trooper", "jack booter", "Islamophobe", "bigot", "racist", "fascist", "goose stepper" and other filthy epithets - the hypocrisy boggles the mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:21 PM I'm well acquainted with the various Hasidic groups, Joe. Also aware of Rabbi Schneerson' history & career. As interesting as that history may be, its not a substitute for the fact that you are unable (or unwilling?) to refute any of the points I raised in 18 Jul 17 - 02:26 PM. Would you care to do that now, or are you going to persist in trying to blow smoke up our asses? I'd be particularly interested in your elabobrating upon your claim that "there's really not much that moderators can do about such name-calling" in light of my personal experiences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: keberoxu Date: 18 Jul 17 - 03:44 PM What Senoufou says! Bless her. "Keyboard Warriors." I love that. We ought to keep that one. Says one of the softies who prefer to converse on paper sacks with cats creeping into them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 03:43 PM So, Greg_F, you need to do a little reading. Study up on the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Although he never visited Israel in his long life (1902-1994), he and his small minority Lubavitch Chabad movement have had a profound effect on the govenment of Israel. When you've learned about him, come back and pontificate. But don't start pontificating until you actually understand the complex political history of Israel. It's a fascinating story. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 17 - 03:33 PM Jim sez: This is what it has always been about – not about the Jewish Peole bu a battle between left and right Yeah, Jim. And if that's the case, I'll side with the left and we can drop all the posturing. Then we can drink beer and sit around in a circle and sing Peter, Paul and Mary songs. But that's not the deal. This world is a complex, interesting phenomenon that can't be boiled down to just a simplistic struggle between left and right. There are complex questions to explore, and the answers are not always immediately evident. Therefore, it just doesn't make sense for you to bring the same, old, bickering arguments into every thread and fight about the same things in every thread. I think I see above that you finally admitted that it was you who brought the "jew-hater" argument into the Brigades thread. Now, get this straight: I choose my words very carefully, and I mean exactly what I say. I said it before and I'll say it now, that I do not think that you are a Jew-hater. Period. Full stop. HOWEVER, I also said that the rhetoric of leftists has changed over the years, and people on the left now say things that are hurtful to Jews. It is a difficult thing to speak critically of Israel without being hurtful to Jews, but I think it's something we need to do. Rather than resorting to labels or comparisons with Hitler, we need to gather and report the facts - and name the people who are responsible. Jim, while I do not think that you are a Jew-hater, you made a broad comparison of Israel and Nazi Germany in a way that could be considered to be anti-Semitic. I think it should be a lesson to you to report information factually and choose your words carefully. I caught you making an anti-Semitic remark and I called "gotcha!" I was also careful to make it clear that I did not think you to be a Jew-hater. That's all. I called "gotcha!" Nothing more. No insult intended. Don't make it into something it isn't intended to be. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Jul 17 - 03:09 PM Joe - certain kinds of people gravitate towards seizing certain kinds of positions of power.. they are evil... Doesn't matter what their religion, culture, society may be.. or what names they choose to collectively go under - they are evil people... The source of this evil is open to debate.. I incline towards explanations of personality / mental health issues.. - sociopaths... .. or in easier terms.. extreme right wingers.. [and that includes past abominations corrupting the progressive ideals of revolutionary communism..] I've just eaten a huge bowl [and seconds] of curried spagetti bolognaise.. so that's the best anyone can get out of me for the next few hours.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Greg F. Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:56 PM It is a quiet, civilized, and very insidious form of terrorism. Your definition of "civilized" is evidently not the one in the dictionary. But have a care, Joe by your criticizing Israel the "usual suspects" should soon descend on you screaming "Jew -Hater" .... Or perhaps not, since you're carrying the can for the "usual suspects" now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Jim Carroll Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:51 PM Go to the "Brigades" thread and tell me who was the first person to make mention of "Jew Hater" there. I know who did, what I said and why I said it – so please do me the favour of putting it in context "When the trolls and goose-steppers on this forum accuse me of being a "Jew hater" and an "Anglophobe" I remember that their England isn't mine and their Jews are not my Jews. " Whenever criticism of Israel is raised here, the knee-jerk response is "Jew hater" – every single time without fail A calm discussion of what is happening there is no longer possible, deliberately so. What do I do – ait for it to happen and allow this to continue? I used the term rhetorically, unlike you and your friends who have chosen to use it as an insult " If you have to refer to Nazi Germany to defend your point of view in a debate, you've run out of logic and lost the debate and said something anti-Semitic.." I suggest you go and count the number of Jews who are actually doing this to oppose the behaviour of the Israeli regime – including former heads of the Israeli security services, a leading general and hundred of holocaust survivors I suggest that, should you get the opportunity, you go to see the documentary film, 'The Gatekeepers' It is true that the once accepted definition makes such comparisons antsemitic, but the final clause of that definition makes it anti-Semitic to associate the Jewish people with the actions of the Isreali Government Israel and its supporters do this every time they describe criticism of their policy as "anti-Semitic" It as become a knee jerk defence of war crimes and atrocities – it is little more than crouching behind the dead of Auschwitz to protect their behaviour. Even Jews who criticise Israel have become "self hating or self loathing" The greated brain on this planet, Albert Einstein was the irst to warn against Israeli fascism – in 1949, four years after the Holocaust Israel's latest stunt in defending anti-Semitic propaganda has ripped the mask of completely If the state which claims to be acting on behalf of the Jewish people refuse to adhere to the definition, the only one we have to fall back on is denigrating the Jewish people I spent a large part of my youth working with Jews – mostly left wingers, many, holocaust survivors I nearly married into one of their families until I fell out with the mother obver her describing the then leadership of Israel as a bunch of fascist – I was more naïve then Tey wer all left wingers who regarded the right as their persecutors and killers – yet here we have a bunch of right wingers, feeling using the term leftie This is what it has always been about – not about the Jewish Peole bu a battle between left and right I am applaed you have chosen to join the trolls in their chorus of Jew hater I am appalled that this is the only evidence you can provide of my "Jew hating" I am allalled that you refuse to either qualify it or withdraw it – I have long abandoned the idea that you will apologise for sinking to their level I am not a Jew Hater – I have never attacked the Jews in my life, neithr ahs anyody else on this forum, yet you three continue to use the tem against fellow Mudcatters No wonder we can't get consensus on our behaviour if our oderators behave sa they do Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:42 PM We would be allowed to discuss any subject, even Israel, if we stuck to the issues. What always happens is that people switch to attacking each other. usually trying to prove someone is a bad person by referring to old, sometimes years old, threads. It is happening to me now on the Labour thread. Stick to the issue and avoid name calling and all the problems would go away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: NO-go subjects on Mudat From: Raggytash Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:27 PM Joe, I accept that rockets was probably not a clear word to use, but the numbers of dead accredited to both side weights down far more heavily on the numbers killed by the Israeli's. Last time I looked by a coniderable amount in their "favour" " |