Whitey on being asked for free music

Subject: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 07:59 AM

This is a pretty good response.

http://imgur.com/sOsHnbf

Anybody here been solicited by Factual Entertainment?

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 08:17 AM

Good answer. A lot of writers and photographers hear the same thing from organizations - "it'll be great publicity." As long as there are desperate artists out there who give it away in hopes of that publicity, companies will get away with it, to a certain extent.

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 09:13 AM

'We'll give you full credit' is another fine one.

'You will understand I can't pay you, we're all struggling artists, aren't we' was the one I got for a picture in a publication by Mel Bay that sold tens of thousands of copies. 'And we want it before tomorrow as the book is going to print then'.

and the list goes on and on.

And ofcourse the tv production companies who tell you there's a budget for archive but then don't respond to invoices or any correspondence once you have sent in your material.

I have since stopped replying to e-mails like that. If you want a professional service, be prepared to pay a professional fee.

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 09:41 AM

If they beg and won't offer money, email back stating you will accept their sexual services as payment instead...

You might end up before a magistrate.. but probably guarantees they will stop bothering you..

Though, never know you might even get lucky... 😜

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: StephenH
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 09:45 PM

I can't resist quoting Utah Phillips on this subject:
"You know, people die of exposure"

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 02:56 PM

Good one, Stephen H.

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 04:10 PM

I've given music for a variety of film and video projects. I gave one license for 1$ to a pretty big film company, who signed similar contracts with 8 other composer/musicians. They promised (and ultimately gave) good "exposure" - when their series signed with Playboy. I knew what I was getting into. They didn't have a budget. They were making a series on speculation and my music could be part of that series, if I could give it essentially for free. The series finally was released and played several years after the contract. They made good on their promise and not only gave me (and others) pretty high promo - they used the promo artwork from the album. It was a good deal.

My second contract to license a song and recording was very much the same story. I got almost nothing, but was listed in the credits and the IMDB (film industry database). The film "B" movie, but it was major release and played theaters, went to DVD, plus Amazon video and Netflix.

Both of those projects turned out to be international releases and both gave me a level of industry credit that was worthwhile to me.

After these two - I did three film projects with a documentary film maker, all of which paid me, pretty well and even got me on screen for a few scenes. All three used music I wrote for the films - plus a few traditional pieces.

Each time I worked on these projects I made contacts and built relationship with industry people and each produced new opportunities for future projects.

So - I believe it is worth examining every opportunity to provide music, free or nearly free can be worthwhile.

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 04:51 PM

If they're contacting you out of the blue to ask, you've already GOT enough exposure to be known, surely?

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 05:59 PM

Many film and TV releases are low budget, maybe even no budget projects. They are very often films that the film maker is funding on his or her own - so I view a request from a project like that as similar to a request from a musician friend to help make a recording or even an album. It is a collaboration effort that we each hope will bear fruit. I was lucky - a few of mine eventually did.

I worked some of those projects with some very big named artists who were donating their music and their time.

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 03:32 AM

I've had several requests over the years from people who've seen my videos on YouTube and wanted to use a track for an occasion such as their wedding, or a relation's funeral (!) - and most of these people have offered to pay for doing so.

I've always said, "Use the music - no charge. Enjoy". Just give me a credit if appropriate and enjoy the music.

I also constantly get emails from video promo and marketing companies who want me to join their schemes to "enhance your exposure" and "work together to build your music base".

These I ignore completely.

I have many of my arrangements of music for guitar and tenor guitar freely available on my website for anyone to download. In late 2016, I popped a "Donate - only if you'd like to" PayPal button on my website, thinking I might get the odd buck here and there towards the costs of maintaining the site. I've been amazed at people's generosity.

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 04:46 AM

Two of my favorites from the post-Napster set:

"Fair Use" and "We thought you were dead."

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: Johnny J
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 04:50 AM

I think a general rule when deciding whether or not to play for free under any circumstance should be that you instigate the proceedings yourself.
Many times, I've struck up a tune in a bar, quiet cafe, or some other nice space but it's more often been for my own benefit and enjoyment rather than anyone eles's. I've also chosen to join sessions or take part in charity events with others where I know I won't be getting paid.

It's a different story, if a bar or cafe approached me and asked if I would perform for nothing. I would be reluctant to do such a thing. Not just for my own sake but I'd be concerned that I might be doing another musician out of a job.

The same applies to approaches by other organisations like those discussed here, in my opinion. If a musician or singer feels they need extra exposure, surely they would want to seek out opportunities for themselves and make whatever arrangements they wish. If then they felt that it was worth their while in the long run to work for nothing on a particular occasion, fair enough, but that's their choice.

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 09:44 PM

For some reason I thought this was more current event than it was:

Wiki: Whitey (musician)

Kickstarter: Whitey 'Bare Bones' Project

In the summer of 2007, an album named Great Shakes was leaked onto the internet, by an unidentified individual named Kelkoo182. As a consequence of this leak, this album was never officially released, and Whitey lost all international licensing deals….

A full album named Stay On The Outside was planned for release in the later part of 2008, but was delayed at this point by the artist….

A new album Canned Laughter was self-released by Whitey on 1 April 2010, along with a public statement that the 'future of music is independent, and labels must learn to strike fairer deals to keep their slice'. He has since withdrawn all his music from Spotify and iTunes….

In December 2012, Whitey started a Kickstarter campaign to fund his seventh album as well as making physical releases on CD and vinyl available for all his back catalogue. The Kickstarter campaign ended well over the official goal (£21,148/416 backers.) However, as of September 2016 no album had been released to those who had pledged funds to the campaign….

In November 2013, Whitey rejected a Betty TV request to licence his music for free on the grounds that it was unreasonable to pay others professionally without paying to licence music, reposting the email online to begin 'a public discussion... about this kind of industry abuse of musicians.' The post went viral overnight, generating 500,000 views in the first 24 hours, and reached an estimated audience of over 5 million views via retweeting/secondary views on Twitter. The requested discussion spread into the mainstream press, generating pieces in Music Week, The Guardian, the BBC and numerous online sources. Whitey recently passed his 15 millionth online play….

Seems that reply was Nathan's most famous fifteen minutes to date. No returns.

Subject: RE: Whitey on being asked for free music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jul 17 - 07:15 AM

Oops. It can be difficult to check dates in things you find on the web (even mainstream newspapers often omit a dateline) and I didn't spot that.