BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain

Subject: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 12:20 PM

I said he may have had a drink and some even claimed dementia. You have my apologies. The moment of confusion was unfortunately brain cancer.

He has made a statement condemning the administration for caving in to Russia regarding Syria.

He is a rare Senator who not only understands but actually lives a life of honor despite a handful of mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 01:05 PM

This the same glial cell neural blastoma that killed Bo Biden, Senator Kennedy and others in Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 03:53 PM

McCain may have -- probably was -- exposed to Agent Orange. There are several appeals made to the Board of Veterans Appeals that uphold a possible connection between AO exposure and glioblastoma.

Alternately, Congress may cause brain cancer.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 03:54 PM

I don't LIKE most of Senator McCain's political stances, but he has always had my respect. And I am sincerely sorry for his current health problems - nobody should have such inflicted upon him.

Only up side is now that he has nothing to lose, he may stand up to the piece of shit in the White House as he has given indications in the past that he wanted to do, but was concerned aout re-election

My absolute best wishes go out to Senator McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 05:16 PM

McCain's had 25 years in Congress to help veterans, yet nearly all he's done is talk about his own experiences as a prisoner of war — and push the country to go to war again. To be fair the Pentagon gets their way no matter what the Congress may say. Defense contracts seduce many State representatives.

Veterans get a bi partisan raw deal regarding agent orange
http://bluewaternavy.org/solvingproblem.htm

Meanwhile back at the ranch, I hope recuperation proceeds smoothly

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 09:40 PM

McCain sure ain't perfect, but he has displayed some honorable characteristics in running for office, resisting using the same kind of dirty tricks that were used on him by the W. Bush primary campaign, and real honor in defeat.

And of course, he picked our Governor to run with in '08, which helped Obama win the Prez.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 10:18 PM

I don't like him either but wouldn't wish this on anybody, and have to admire the man also, I mean, really.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 17 - 10:41 PM

Although he made an anti-Vietnam War "confession" McCain was ashamed of it and said that "every man had his breaking point and I had reached mine." He also refused early repatriation (his father was at the time Commander-in-Chief Pacific (CINCPAC) so as to deny the North Vietnamese any propaganda benefit.

He also said that waterboarding is torture, and he would know what torture is. I may not agree with what he's said and done in Congress, but I respect him quite highly.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 12:22 PM

While we're on different turf politically he's always impressed me as a decent gentleman with a sense of humor. I remember him defending his presidential opponent in 2008, Senator Obama, against one his own ignorant supporters.
Click here
I can't imagine the moron currently occupying the White House displaying anything close to that kind of graciousness. The way he acquitted himself during his captivity in Viet Nam qualifies him as a hero in my book in spite of what Twitler claims. His Viet Nam was a real war and not a social disease.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 05:52 PM

I'm sorry that he is facing this serious health obstacle.
I wish everyone in the US could get the quality of care he gets.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 06:46 PM

Twitler's opinion on anthing at all isn't worth shit. Because he isn't worth shit.

Mc Cain -tho as I've said I don't agree with him, is worth ten thousand
of Asshole Trump

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 07:39 PM

The quintessential American businessman is successful for their tricks, con jobs, lies, illusions and a narrow focus of intelligence.
Twitler fits the mold. His woeful knowledge of history is a case in point.

One day Donald is going to try and quote President Reagan and he will have another epic fail.

( in the vocal style of Trump :)

"When I deal with Russia a powerful country you need to know the soul and the tough Russian troops who have thrown back every attack by Napoleon and Germany you know how they were left frozen in the snow nd ice but long time ago Ronald Reagan knew we needed Russia as a friend that we should trust but vilify I mean trust but unify wha.. I am told it is trust but testify no? trust but terrify at any rate we have to trust Russia."

While Trump seems more articulate than misunderestimating George Bush Donald is more chaotic and scatter brained with his thoughts that trip over one another in run on rants that defy translators and journalists alike. His speech is double talk designed to confuse business opponents but anathema for the critical listening world.

There is a chance McCain will cut Trump to the ego bone and Trump in turn will say something terribly unfortunate about McCain's health status.
The long standing loony 20% will still support Trump but it will be bunker time for Bonzo until the bitter end.


This just in...
Segei Kissmyass is heard in taped discussions with Jeff Sessions about the Trump campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 07:45 PM

Yep, looks like Sessions is toast. All the King's Men II.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 10:56 PM

Context is everything, isn't it?

The left had no time for McCain just a few years ago. He's consistently voted against gun law reform; against environmental protections (co-sponsor); for de-funding Planned Parenthood and against other women's health measures; against a fair minimum wage, protecting access to Medicare, fair homeowner flood insurance, etc. etc. Google his voting record, it's all there.

Suddenly he looks like a stalwart elder statesman to be admired? George W. Bush must be babbling to his image in the mirror every day, "I'm not the worst president ever any more, oh golly gee!"

I despair for this country.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 03:27 AM

I hope he makes a full recovery. However not everyone shares the view of "Honourable"


http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=78354

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 05:34 AM

State of the Nation is quite the little Pro-Trump, anti-Obama,anti-Clinton, climate change denying "news" source. Anyone in need of a good laugh need only read the leads on the right sidebar.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 11:16 AM

Yes mc, context is everything.
For being slightly against the Trump party line McCain is considered his typical rogue patriot self for not going along hook line and sinker with Senate Republicans defending the foreign agent status of the White House.

Regarding what is next;

This Wed. Trump Jr. and Mannifort were scheduled to appear before the Senate Investigation. BUT NOT NOW. Instead the expected HIT BACK from Republicans will be dedicated to the high crimes and misdemeanors of Mueller and the Democrats who are the 'REAL' Russian colluders and conspirators.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 11:31 AM

Find out what McCain did to The Navajo. You can watch 'The Broken Rainbow' on Youtube.

25% of them died after being forced off their land, the land where their Ancestors had lived and died.

Peabody Coal got the land, McCain saw to that.

I think he also used The Doctrine of Discovery to do this.

Honourable? Pah!

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 11:33 AM

Don, you started the thread, but please keep it to McCain, it would be nice to discuss his contributions without stumbling over Trump rants. There are enough of those already.

Here is a McCain family story that I've always liked and have linked to a few times this week. And a note, both babies survived and thrived, you can search on Nikki and find images of her with her family as well. Good outcome for all.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 11:35 AM

Post your own sources, Lizzie. No one wants to waste their time chasing down one of your rabbit holes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 01:38 PM

Acme, Vivre la POV

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 01:24 AM

Donuel, is this the same John McCain who as a Lt-Cdr in the USN you accused, totally incorrectly, of killing 134 sailors on the 29th July, 1967 while serving on board the USS Forrestal?

Senator John McCain is certainly a man worthy of respect and I sincerely hope that he responds well to treatment and gets through this, his latest battle.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 02:24 AM

McCain was one of three Republican votes against repeal of Obamacare today. He came through when we needed him.
Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska were the other Republican "no" votes. My thanks to these three honorable senators.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 06:18 AM

You make a snafu regarding hot missiles sound like murder robomatic.
JAG knows best. I wasn't there. I suspected you would remember that 7 year old post which held your attention for reasons unimportant now.
At this juncture my historic post sounds like something Trump would tweet.

The only Senator that Trump singled out for retribution was Murkowski (a woman) and promised Alaska will lose Federal money over her no vote.

That kind of extortion is as illegal as Christy's Bridgegate.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Shakey
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 07:40 AM

The sorry state of today's Left, Abi Wilkinson in the New Statesman (before the vote)

"Increasingly, I'm coming round to the idea that incivility isn't merely justifiable, but actively necessary… It's unpleasant to wish that John McCain was dead—but is it illegitimate to note that, had he been unable to vote, legislation that will kill tens of thousands of others might have been blocked?"

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 07:57 AM

well, bully for him.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Shakey
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 07:58 AM

bully for who?

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 08:52 AM

More importantly, bully for US.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 10:37 AM

Donuel - 28 Jul 17 - 06:18 AM

The so-called snafu regarding "hot missiles" had nothing whatsoever to do with Lt-Cdr McCain. The rocket was fired from a Phantom, McCain flew Skyhawks, the rocket that went hot nearly hit McCain's aircraft (He was sitting in the cockpit at the time so he can hardly be held responsible for it) As for JAG they never ever attempted to charge McCain with anything - yet you claimed, on this forum, that he was responsible for the deaths of 134 US Sailors - That was an outrageous lie Donuel and one you have never had the honesty to own up to or the integrity to retract.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 11:21 AM

I'm a bit confused - that article from New Statesman Shakey quoted was about how Senator McCain had helped get this nasty legislation passed, but here he is being congratulated for helping block it. Did he tell everybody he was going to vote for it, and then came to his senses and voted against it at the last minute, or what?

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 11:38 AM

If you believe one source you can sound like a Trump tweet

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2015/07/23/mccain-the-hero-nearly-sunk-an-aircraft-carrier-killed-134-sailors/

Lets choose to believe the official report

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

Except for the victims and families it is unimportant now.

Come to think about it, wasn't my offending post 14 years ago?

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 11:48 AM

Sir from Harlow,
One vote was a nothing procedural vote
The second vote at 1 AM was the blocking vote that left Republicans with their arms crossed and heads down.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 11:54 AM

See, above, 20 Jul 17 - 03:54 PM

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Shakey
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 11:57 AM

@MoH

I don't understand it either, I think she pre-judged his vote, but irrespective of the way he voted it was a nasty piece

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 11:58 AM

McCain cast his vote with a bit of flair and style with a loud voice and hand stretched wide. Doing the right thing is easier for a Senator who vowed last year not to run again. But the flair he displayed last night confirmed his rogue status.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 12:26 PM

@McGrath:
The confusion: McCain voted "yes" on the bill... to open it for debate.

What he voted against is repealing Obamacare (without replacement). What they're calling "skinny repeal".

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: meself
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 12:53 PM

In other words, there were two bills: the first to open the debate, which he voted for - after making a stirring speech about how repugnant the whole business was; and, the second to institute the 'skinny repeal' (repealing some, but not all, of Obamacare), which he voted against.

In former times, the motion to open debate was simply a matter of form - more or less everybody would vote in favour. However, during the Obama years, Mitch McConnell had the audacity to start (ab)using this formality to block any consideration of legislation the Dems wished to introduce.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 01:14 PM

So -- What this proves is that out of all the Republicruds in the Senate, there are at least three who still retain a sense of decency and morality.

That should be congratulated.

Now, will any of the number of the rest of the Rebulicrud gutless wonder Trumpist sycophants have the courage to embrace reality & stand up for the benifit of the U.S. population???

Don't hold yer farkin' breath.....

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 01:31 PM

Log of the USS Forestall for the day of the fire.

McCain's speech of 17 July 2017.

Read them both. Next time do your own research, I'm retired.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 03:00 PM

I wondered why McCain voted "yes" on the vote to open discussion, but I was hoping he knew what he was doing. If the discussion had not been opened, would that have ended the attempt to repeal so decisively?

And is it over now, or will there be a next chapter in the attempt to repeal Obamacare?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Horrible Sinstor John CoCain
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 03:48 PM

So Tom McCann killed 134 people 14 years ago or what


When the obvious isn't good enough the problem is not mine.
14 years ago I wrote at an 8th (Ake) grade level. I got better.
I thank everyone here for their forbearance as I gradually practiced with editorial and instructional help along the way.
The problem I overcame was a undedicated angular gyrus which is known to many as dyslexia so I trained new areas of the brain to express the complexities of language. The deficiencies are for all to see if they went into the archives far enough. This is not an apology but rather a heart felt thank you. If the obvious is not good enough, all I can do is feel sorry for you. I wish the best for Mc Cain as he enters the strange adventures of brain damage while he still remains his whole psycho-holographical self.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 04:17 PM

McCain may have -- probably was -- exposed to Agent Orange. There are several appeals made to the Board of Veterans Appeals that uphold a possible connection between AO exposure and glioblastoma.

The cancer senator McCain has been diagnosed with is glioblastoma multiforme (GBM). Despite extensive research, no one has been able to find a cause. GBM is more likely to occur in older people, but there are plenty of young cases as well. Everything from pesticide exposure to diets has been examined in the hunt for a cause without any significant links having been found. There is zero evidence for Agent Orange, a mixture of the herbicides 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T being a factor in GBM. Of course there will be a number of Vietnam vets who have been afflicted with GBM but that is because there are a lot of Vietnam vets. The question is whether the incidence of GBM is greater among the veterans than the general population. There is no indication that this is so. One study did suggest an association with occupational exposure to magnetic fields. Researchers determined that telephone cable splicers, welders, electricians and electric utility workers had a slightly higher incidence, but there were confounding variables and the study was never duplicated. Basically, the cause of this dreadful disease is just not known.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 04:56 PM

will there be a next chapter in the attempt to repeal Obamacare?


Oh yeah, you bet, Joe. The Republicruds will continue to lock up Congress with irrelevant, extraneous bullshit - that's what they do.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 01:48 AM

Thanks Rapparee for your post Rapparee - 28 Jul 17 - 01:31 PM and the supplied link - Log of the USS Forestall for the day of the fire. - which basically backs up everything I have stated on the incident and makes it perfectly clear that neither Lt-Cdr John McCain USN, or any other member of the crew of the USS Forrestal had anything to do with incident that occurred on board the USS Forrestal fifty years ago today.

Extract 1:
"The tragic fire began with the accidental launching of a Zuni rocket from a F-4B Phantom aircraft. This rocket launch was not the result of error on the part of the crew. The rocket streaked across the flight deck and struck the external fuel tank of an A-4E Skyhawk aircraft, spilling volatile aviation fuel across the flight deck. Within five seconds the fuel ignited, spreading under other aircraft loaded with ordnance and fueled for the second launch of that morning. Huge clouds of black smoke billowed three hundred feet into the air. Scores of flight deck personnel rushed to contain the spread of the flames from reaching thirteen adjoining aircraft all loaded with ordnance. In one minute and thirty-four seconds after the fire started, the first 1000 lb. bomb exploded. Flying shrapnel tore into other aircraft, ruptured more fuel tanks, and spread lakes of flaming aviation fuel over the deck. In a period of four minutes, seven major high order explosions shook the entire ship ripping seven huge holes through the thick armored steel flight deck with some reaching through the ship to the water line. Countless high and low order detonations continued. Some 40,000 gallons of jet plane fuel leaking from punctured aircraft fuel tanks, spread into holes ripped through the deck, spreading flames to many compartments far below the flight deck. Courageous fire fighting teams, officers, and enlisted men were knocked down, injured, or killed by the series of explosions. Rockets, missiles, and 20 mm shells shot across the flight deck, and ejection seats fired into the air. Twelve minutes after the last major explosion, but with minor explosions continuing, flight deck directors moved aircraft from near the island super structure while fire fighting teams kept the fire from advancing farther forward. Aircraft, some still in flames, were jettisoned in an effort to keep the fire from spreading. Fires continued out of control in the after part of the ship far into the night. Finally the fire was extinguished at 0400, 30 July 1967. Heroic crewmembers risked life and limb to battle the blaze, rescue fellow crewmembers and save their ship.
The crew of over 5,000 men saved their ship. One Hundred Thirty-four crewmembers made the supreme sacrifice. One hundred sixty-one men were injured with sixty-four personnel sustaining severe injuries. - Source - Ken Killmeyer, USS Forrestal Association Historian.
Aboard July 29, 1967.

Extract 2:
"1052
Zuni rocket accidentally launches, striking an A-4E Skyhawk spotted on port side. Fuel of center line fuel tank begins leaking. Fuel tank erupts. Called away fire parties to man fog foam stations.
Called away General Quarters. All hands manning General Quarters stations, setting material condition Zebra throughout the ship." - Source - Official Log Entry, USS Forrestal, 29th July 1967

Extract 3:
"P.S.: A human interest angle is that [Lieutenant Commander, and future] Sen. John McCain was manning one of the A-4's near the one that was hit by the Zuni. I have seen some stories that it was McCain's A-4 that was hit. I think that is incorrect. I believe it was the A-4 of LCDR Fred D. White (VA-46) which was struck by the Zuni. That's what was said in the aftermath of the fire. White did not survive." - Source - PERSONAL REMINISCENCES OF TOM WIMBERLY, CAPTAIN, USN (Ret) - XO of VF-74 "Be-Devilers" on 29 July 1967

Yet Donuel persists in his despicable lie. Instead of believing hard evidence Donuel would prefer to rely on the drivel published by Lew Rockwell in a blog - unfortunately it is obvious that on this particular matter Lew Rockwell knows JACK SHIT.


Plan of Deck - USS Forrestal

The Above Plan shows the positions of the aircraft ranged on the Forrestal's flight deck. The F4 Phantom from which the rocket was fired is starboard aft. McCain's aircraft an A4E Skyhawk (Aircraft 416) is clearly shown further up the deck on the port side of the carrier.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 10:33 AM

I do? I didn't know that.

Case in point; In 16 years I have not noticed any significant change in you POV, temperament or your formidable fondness for war. Perhaps if you do not look or pay attention you might see no change in my posts. I have deliberately changed my POV. But not without help from others. That I am well versed in the subject of brainwashing may have something to do with the disparity of perceived change between us.
As hate becomes a permanent condition it does something to the person that makes hate, self reinforcing and self protecting. It ignores facts , it ignores the obvious. Its like an addictive drug.
It is why there are Trump supporters. It is said shared hate is stronger than shared love.

Love is fleeting ain't it. But your vision of hate remains sharp and clear no matter how old you get. It makes you a good soldier but it makes you a lousy judge of character.

Wishing you plenty of Love life and music that are the great counter weights. Enjoy the man you are. I'm kinda ambivalent but maintaining basic empathy like McCain.

Donald

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 12:20 PM

Well Donuel/Donald or whoever if you have changed your POV I sure as hell have seen no apology for, or retraction of your statement where you declared that John McCain was responsible for the deaths aboard the USS Forrestal.

Talking of what is obvious - "It is obvious that John McCain had absolutely nothing to do with those deaths" - funny thing I could see that, yet YOU could not - might have something to do with "hatred" of any Republican Candidate running for President (Your totally false and ridiculous accusation came up in the run up to the 2008 Presidential Election IIRC) and your willingness to tell deliberate lies in a rather ludicrous attempt to blacken his reputation.

Your posts in general are supercilious and sneering drivel of a stereotypical pseudo-intellectual.

"I'm kinda ambivalent but maintaining basic empathy like McCain." - The man you falsely defamed as a murderer - Fuckin' Priceless!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 01:26 PM

While I am not the NYT, show me the offending 10 year old post.

We all can be victims of propaganda.

Transparency and total truth will never assuage your emotions , much like the Mueller investigations and the unbelieving Trump base.
Admittedly I intentionally piqued your animosity to make the points I have enumerated above. However I do not want to overlook the sacrifices and choices you have made that would cause you any harm while your shields were down.

I think your observations of me are largely correct and unintentional. I wanted to please my parents and be the intellectual diplomat to France my parents wanted but I could not compete in the reading or language world. Still I don't believe we know ALL the same things, so I share. By teaching we are taught more. I bet you tried to please your parents too.
Some interaction has no vanquished or victor but only succeeds in better understanding. We probably will never be in the same club but we will at least know why without so many lies.

All my comments are from my point of view, what would be arrogant would be for me to write from your POV. It might be enlightening but two faced.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 04:57 PM

One need not apologize for changing one's mind. One should simply explain why the change and move forward. Are you through splitting hairs?

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 05:44 PM

All depends Acme, how would you feel about some clown wandering about telling the world and it's dog that you are responsible for a horrendous accident in which 134 people died and a further 161 were injured. The clown in question armed himself with no knowledge or facts in relation to the incident before he "gobbed off" accusing you, and then when challenged on the allegation and shown hard evidence that shows you had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it - said clown:

1. Refuses to retract his original allegation.
2. Refuses to apologise for lying in order to misrepresent you and mislead the forum in general.
3. Refuses to apologise to you for having made a false accusation against you.

Not just a case of changing one's mind - IS IT?

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 07:21 PM

In my spoken voice - Look I know I've riled you up but its not about apologies or believing the official government version, its about each of us speaking a different language. I really do not know who I am speaking to. I knew someone who insisted upon me calling him by his rank first. As a civilian I did not even know what that kind of status meant. Maybe you're that military guy. Sir - spoken voice ends

Ya gotta know who you're talking to if understanding is what you seek.
Mistakes are made when we don't speak the same language. If I say I am enlightened I am not saying you are not or that I am better.
If I talk about being enlightened it is not a bragadocious ego trip, it is about the death of ego, the elimination of self.

I do not constantly stay in that egoless state but I can shed ego as easily as taking off my shoes. For the most part I go barefoot but in rough terrain I still put on boots. Pseudo intellectual crap? To you yes. To me no. I do confront you but do not attack you. We could be loyal enemies till we die, I could accept and respect that.

We obviously do not share the same leeway and latitude now but in the long long run, all of humanity will.


Highlights on hate reprise:
As hate becomes a permanent condition it does something to the person that makes hate self-reinforcing and self-protecting. It ignores facts , it ignores the obvious. Its like an addictive drug.
It is why there are Trump supporters. It is said shared hate is stronger than shared love. It is the way our brains are wired. It is not our fault, it is our fate until we learn better.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 09:45 PM

The Forrestal fire happened in 1967. John McCain was born in 1936, so he was 31 at the time. Shortly after that, he was captured and spent 5-1/2 life-changing years as a prisoner of war. He ran for President in 2008, 41 years after the Forrestal incident.

Seems to me, it would be foolhardy to bring up the Forrestal incident as an issue, that long after it happened.

Who can tell us what Donald Trump was doing forty-one years ago?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 09:58 PM

I just want to be clear Donuel that your reference to me on 28 Jul 17 06:18AM was erroneous. I had not made any comment regarding John McCain and his presence on the USS Forrestal.

There has been a bogus attempt to brand McCain with culpability in that horrible Vietnam War era accident which only goes to show that anyone can have enemies who will say absolutely anything at the drop of a hat if they think it will cast an aspersion or muddy the waters. That bogosity predates the internet and is not related to this thread.

McCain is an honorable man whose politics are not my politics. He has experienced below-the-belt attacks while himself running relatively honorable campaigns, so far as I know. That means a lot in this day and age.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 08:46 AM

We are both button pushers. Now when I say I do not recall, I sound Republican.
The McCain vote with style flair and audible gasps is like an old classical painting showing a moment in history like signing the declaration of independence. I'm glad John had this moment for the ages.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 09:29 AM

"Who can tell us what Donald Trump was doing forty-one years ago?"

It seems that Donal Joke, the presidential candidate who denigrated Sen. McCain's sacrifices for this country, was valiantly fighting his own war againgst venereal disease during and after the Viet Nam era.


The Daily Beast

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: CupOfTea
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 04:29 PM

McCain is a good example of what a Republican used to be: standing up for his own convictions, on their own merits, without denigrating the honor of his opponents. With so few Republicans NOT on the bandwagon for 45's insane agendas, he does shine like a white knight from time to time. Then ya take a look at some of the other votes he's done, and want to scream " NOOOO!!!"

A saving grace will be politicians who can be persuaded to vote in the best interests of constituents. McCain did this time, give him props. My own senator, Portman, has been part of some dreadful things, yet he did stand up for the Great Lakes. Gave him thanks for that well done bipartisan effort, along with some spirited condemnation of his other moves.

Finding a wedge of agreement with someone with the substance of McCain is such a good way to connect, a starting point for conversation and compromise that those with unbending agendas will never afford the opposition. Any effort toward bipartisanship is a huge step in the right direction with this administration.

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 06:20 PM

McCain is a good example of what a Republican used to be:

Well, mostly.

But almost all of the current Republicrud spinelesss wonders have forgotten what morality and integrity mean - or they'd be repudiating the worthless piece of shit that currently occupies the White House.

Lets not deify McCain simply becasause he's not as brain dead as the rest of the Republican assholes in the House & Senate & the various State Offices.

Subject: RE: BS: The Honorable Senator John McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 06:25 PM

Yes the goal posts have been moved by the extreme right. They want their segregated America back.
To me they have moved the McCain 50 yard line into the end zone.
Regular order is called for and McCain merely wants a 50 yard line where it is supposed to be.
To do so we need a reform of gerrymandering and districting.
We need an end to voter suppression and destruction of voter rights
An end to ... Hell we need a New Deal II under Warren or Sanders