BS: the counter-protestors in Boston

Subject: outnumber by thousands
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 05:47 PM

What happened on the Boston Common this Saturday?

It sounds like a protest of the protest.
A funny place for libertarians and conservatives to raise their voices.

Boston has layers, and there is tension between some of the layers.
Of course the counter-protestors, not those that pick fights but those who stand together against hate-speech, can see Boston as a symbol of liberty and freedom and so on.

In fact, Boston has people who prefer to keep their mouths shut, and who are closer to the current administration's ideology than they let on.

Such mixed messages.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 05:59 PM

What happened was the Nazis were outnumbered and out-classed. As it should be.

There may be hope yet against the rising tide of Nazi Trumpism.

Or is that Trumpy Nazism?

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 06:38 PM

Be careful what you wish for Greg, the suppression of free speech is very easily done, but carries grave dangers.

The social and mainstream media seem to be combining to silence anyone who dares to protest. The Fascists are gaining power with every demo which has to be aborted.
The Universities are dictating who will address the students and what they will say.
Never forget the French Revolution and the fascism which ensued.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 08:00 PM

Ache, you don't have a farking clue what you're talking about - as usual. The pharoah of alternative facts - or more appropriately, non-facts- Ahmenbullshit III.

For all our sakes, give it a bloody rest.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 08:21 PM

Ake, you're either happily fulfilling a role others here have assigned you, or you're a neo-Nazi. Or maybe just stupid. Basically, you're upset because there weren't enough Nazi/white supremacists there. Go whine at your buddies. Nobody was suppressed.

I'm proud of the way Boston went today. I hope it happens everywhere there's a public fascist gathering.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 09:02 PM

Hear, Hear Jeri!

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Aug 17 - 10:37 PM

Exactly!

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 02:19 AM

There was an anti-Muslim demonstration at our local shopping mall in June, so we organized a counter-protest. We outnumbered them, 10 to one. They were very peaceful, and so were we.
I think it's very important not to let the other side get us angry.
Joe

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 03:03 AM

" the suppression of free speech "
Since when is opposition to Nazism and Racism " the suppression of free speech" - what is "free" about being allowed to march the streets claiming that black people are inferior?
You really have got it bad now that your hero has been exposed by left and right for what a monster he really is, haven't you?
If you care to read Carlyle and the like, you will be reminded of the horrific oppression that led to The French Revolution in the first place
No need to ask which side you are on
" so we organized a counter-protest."
Where did you erect your guillotine Joe - and what did you do with the heads?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 03:24 AM

Maybe it's time time to remind Ake that a few months ago he was declaring that it was anti democratic and possibly treasonable to demonstrate against Trump - it hasn't taken too long for him to do a flip and come out in support of Klan marches
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 04:20 AM

Jeri, I am no Nazi, you completely miss the point. While demonstrations are LEGAL, while views are LEGAL, while these demonstrations are peaceful, while you want democracy to continue, the free expression of all views must be protected.

Racist organisations and other organisations which promote violence should be prohibited by law, whether on the left or on the right.

The reason this action has not been taken is lack of courage by successive governments.
Raw people power always turns upon itself.

There are many controversial issues which urgently need addressing,
The future of the system, mass immigration, the future of society, the role of religion, but violent protest, intimidation and suppression of free speech is anti democratic.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Stu
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 04:25 AM

In the case of extremists such as Nazis, their hate speech can be suppressed without compromising anyone's moral integrity because the focus is on preserving everyone else's right to free speech, which authoritarians like the Nazis would brutally suppress were they in power. You only have to look at the likes of Trump and Farage to see this embryonic oppression in action as they peddle their alt-right lies and hate.

There is not moral argument for allowing these people to go unchallenged.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 04:36 AM

There is not moral argument for allowing these people to go unchallenged.

I agree. Who would deny it?
Is there a moral argument for allowing the Left to go unchallenged?

Far Left authoritarians also suppress.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 05:31 AM

"Is there a moral argument for allowing the Left to go unchallenged?"
Who on earth is suggesting there is?
This is about armed and uniformed racists taking to the streets, not political parties
Sheesh - the length these Hoodie supporters will go
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 08:43 AM

Its only the same two regular clowns coming up with the same regular bullshit.

Ignore 'em - I'tll drive them wild!

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 08:56 AM

Nobody should go armed into the streets and racists and fascists have no place anywhere.
I think we all can agree on that.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:48 AM

Why mention the left - have they gone onto the streets armned and uniformed?
Your bringing them up her implies that you believe they have
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 09:49 AM

Ake wants to support hate speech as free speech. There's a REASON it's called hate speech - it's illegal. Take a look at Germany, how they manage Nazi speech.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 01:46 PM

Rubbish! read my last posting.

The people who were involved in the last demonstration, which was suppressed, were ordinary conservatives interested in promoting free speech. Before the demo they announced that they had no truck with racism, colour prejudice or violence.
The hatred comes from the soft left "liberals" who brook no questioning of their mad, mythical ideology. They are determined with the aid of a scumbag media to proscribe all conservative thought.

Just keep an eye on the university campuses if you are interested in Fascism at work.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 02:35 PM

There is a lot of hype on this issue, which is not a new issue. I've heard American would-be Nazis and their attempts to establish any kind of traction or relevance for years.

Let's not forget the march in Skokie, Ill. in the 70s.

The internet has given this ilk, along with every other kind of ilk, niches to abide in.

Modern American Nazis are a pale reflection on the real thing. They gain more than they lose by the actions of panicky counter protestors.

The KKK had a major heyday in the 20s when they marched ten thousand strong in Washington D.C. That ain't coming back, again.

Donald Trump is not a Nazi. He's not a pro-Nazi. He is pro one thing: Donald Trump. He has no organic principles and any attempt to ascribe them to him is a waste of energy.

The danger as always is the chaotic springing of bright shiny objects on the public to divide and distract us from the overall lack of vision, leadership, and direction from our current office holders. Their only model of the world as they say it should be is decades old where it's not a century old.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 02:49 PM

It's heartening to see so many American's intolerance for intolerance.

A funny (or tragic) sidelight to yesterday's activities was the inability of the President, Donal John Dumbass, to spell heal. Not a typo, he did it twice in 2 consecutive tweets.

Huffington Post

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 03:54 PM

Tell you something, if you people get the suppression of free speech that you seem to support, you will not like it....I promise you.
If you are really interested in closing the wealth gap, getting a proper health service cleaning up inner cities, curtailing the corporations, ending foreign wars....you will need free speech.

Of course if you are only really interested in sexual and gender politics .......you will be just fine.....and I suppose happy in your own selfish way.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 04:47 PM

No "ifs" no "buts"
From Liberty.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 05:00 PM

"Suppression" ??!!
I'm guessing you think the fact the anti-supremacy demonstrators HUGELY outnumbered the wannabe Nazis, it equals "suppression". For the record, I think it's ridiculously ignorant, or deluded, or disappointed, but the more you write, the more I can't figure out why anyone wastes time talking to you. I'm done with it. Go support the racist assholes in your OWN country.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 05:00 PM

Ache. Re-read Jeri's post above & then give it a rest, eh? No wait: I'll save you the trouble-

Ake, you're either happily fulfilling a role others here have assigned you, or you're a neo-Nazi. Or maybe just stupid. Basically, you're upset because there weren't enough Nazi/white supremacists there. Go whine at your buddies. Nobody was suppressed.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 05:26 PM

the inability of the President, Donal John Dumbass, to spell heal.

Why should Donal-Dumb be able to spell? He can't think or even speak English.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Aug 17 - 07:08 PM

Ake. To be Perfectly Clear:

Hate Speech ≠ Free Speech

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 03:14 AM

Acme, in my world free speech does not equate to hatred, in fact it has nothing at all to do with hatred. It usually applies to serious a controversial political and social issues.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: peteglasgow
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 03:30 AM

about 8/9 years ago in aberdeen (scotland) the bnp (i think) applied to have a march down union street. we quickly organised a campaign against this (one old guy saying 'nazis have never marched in scotland and they are not going to do it in my home town') (we get the orange order often enough but .....) anyway, at the decisive council meeting one scrawny skinhead walked through about 40 laughing demonstrators to make his application - which failed. all very satisfying.

personally, i think donald trump should come here and be met with a massive festival of collective mirth and ridicule - much more effective and demoralising than hatred and aggression.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 04:39 AM

"Hate Speech ≠ Free Speech"
Worth examining Ake's stance this one Acme
Ake is a British citizen - these marches are banned by law in Britain, so presumably he believes that Britain is guilty of depriving the British people of the right to free speech
In the case of the Klan marches, he says they must be protected because they are "legal", yet he accused those who legally took to the streets in opposition to Trump of undermining the constitution - in other words "treason"
So if it's legal in one case it's permissible - if it doesn't suit his personal agenda, it's treason - pick-'n-mix politicking
I think we can safely take it that if thinks the cause is in line with his beliefs then it should be allowed to happen - if not, it should be banned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Stu
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 05:40 AM

I honestly think Ake is just trolling us.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: peteglasgow
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 07:06 AM

you have to salute his indefatigability - he's been at it for years

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Stu
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 09:21 AM

He likes pulling pissers.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 12:27 PM

I am certainly not trolling, I wouldn't waste my valuable time.
The issue of freedom of speech is very important to me, and it should be so to all of you; in the UK we are rapidly losing the freedom to criticize behaviour which is anti social, dangerous or unhealthy.

Last night the town of Cromer was forced into partial lockdown by a community of travellers 23 caravans were subsequently evicted from the area, but no arrests were made and the deputy chief constable refused to confirm that travellers caused the trouble.
The same thing happened in my nearest town when drug dealing, money lending and extortion was taking place from a travellers encampment....."shut down for renovation" no arrests police shit scared of anti discrimination legislation

Same thing with the British Pakistani grooming gangs, no action from social services or police until thousands of children had been abused. Again shit scared of anti discrimination legislation.

Anyone protesting over unregulated immigration from the EU branded "Racist" on Mudcat....Now every major political Party agrees that immigration must be regulated.

Freedom of speech is very important to check the excesses of political correctness, time to call a spade a spade.

BTW that phrase is about honesty, not colour prejudice or racism, before any of the usual arseholes jump in.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 12:44 PM

Ake, please take your bigotted, homophobic, xenophobic, racist nonsense elsewhere.

If nothing else, its tiresome.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 12:55 PM

I never tire of the truth Greg......I'm sorry that you do.

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 12:58 PM

I never tire of the truth

Ah, but Ake - you've so little experience of it, how would you be able to recognize it if you saw it?

Subject: RE: BS: the counter-protestors in Boston
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 17 - 06:02 PM

I only write what I believe to be true Greg, I check and research many issues and statistics. If I express an opinion I make it clear that it is simply an opinion.
Joe accused me of telling lies on one of the recent threads but I had made a genuine mistake and admitted it immediately.
I try very hard never to mislead or lie.

A lot of people present their hopes or opinions here without a shred of evidence especially those who moderate.

Freedom of speech is necessary in a democracy it is the job of governments to proscribe the promotion of colour prejudice or violent conduct leading to suppression.

Social media like facebook and twitter manipulate the naïve, they are a real danger, giving a platform to media celebrities who often have no grasp of the complexities of the issues they promote.
Fascism does not always wear jackboots and insignia. Grey (Arial)

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Closed, because it hasn't been about Boston for a while, and is just another battleground. -Mod