Tech: Gretsch mandolin

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 06:05 PM

Possibly disagree there. I've had a few debates over this, having changed a while ago now but in some ways, I regret giving my under £100 Roumanian built (I think) Portuguese style mando (mine was a "Vintage", similar also sold as Ozark...) away when I got the Buchanan.

Not a major problem to me as I also dabble with tenor banjo and no regrets in getting a nicer instrument but the general feeling after asking others seems to be that (although the latter is surprising for its small body), the cheap one was a bit easier to hear and the more expensive one is sweeter. The cheap one was also easier for me to hear myself on in a session.

Not sure about the digging in although I play with 1 - 1.14 picks these days and think of myself as being on the heavy handed side.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 04:32 AM

At the risk of stating the obvious, it's easier to play a loud mandolin quietly than to get a quiet mandolin to play loudly.

Most instruments have a limit. To try and put it simply, the sound which comes out of them all comprises an initial "thud" as the pick strikes the strings together with a "ring" as the strings sound out. At some point, the thud will overpower the ring and this occurs at a lower level on cheaper/poorer instruments which choke up if you try to play them too hard.

This may be an oversimplification as it also depends on string gauge, set-up and pick weight. Like Jon, I also use 1 - 1.4mm rounded picks (Wegen). I find that I need to go lighter and pointier on mandola and octave mandolin.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,bignige
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 07:05 AM

I'm really only talking Guitars. I would say a guitars tone and projection must come from the woods. The better the grade the better the construction the better projection. If you only require a brush type strum, then yes cheaper instruments will give you that, but if you need to replicate a bass guitar then may be not. The bottom line is that it is a very subjective thing, personally I like to hear the depth of a well rounded bass.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 07:44 AM

One thing with those cheap Romanian mandolins then is that they actually used solid tonewoods - I think mine had a spruce top and rosewood back and sides. Less fond of them in other ways - I dislike the classical guitar type tuners but to me (and yes things can be subjective/personal), a very good budget session instrument.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 07:56 AM

This one is described as having solid maple back and sides.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 09:52 AM

How often do you see eBay adds for ' hand built mandolin, solid woods ' and everyone can see it's a far Eastern factory made plywood box ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 10:01 AM

True Dave but I don't believe that is the case with these.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 10:07 AM

(And even Eagle Music Shop describe it as all solid spruce/maple)

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 12:46 PM

The fact that it's solid wood doesn't mean that it's any good or that it will survive the rigours of being played for a significant length of time.

It's largely a matter of balance. A heavily built instrument will last for years but sound awful. A lightly built one will sound good but fall apart. An expert builder will know how light she/he can go whilst producing something which will last. It's not simply a case of sticking a flat piece of solid wood on top of a box - the top needs to be "tuned" to sound its best (and most of the better mandolins have carved tops anyway).

As with guitars, at the cheaper end of the market, you're sometimes better off getting something built of plywood (ah! My old, red label, Yamaha FG180 and how about spending a couple of hundred thousand on an an original "plywood" Maccaferri?)

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,bignige
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 04:52 PM

Just another thought, cheap instruments may sound ok or even good when they are newish, try them again after say 20/30 years. Makers who have been around a while tend to know how to put and instrument together so it matures will age.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 04:08 AM

Yes. Cheap (and generally plywood) instruments tend to sound much the same as they did new whereas luthier built instruments usually improve with age.

Similarly, cheap instruments tend to depreciate whereas luthier built ones retain and usually increase in value. E.G. I paid £190 for a new Martin D18 guitar in 1974.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 08:41 AM

Yep there may be general rules... All the same there are circumstances in sessions were I'd rather have one of those under £100 Vintage/Ozark/Hora mandolins with me than my (I'd think around £800 new) Buchanan.

I got my cheap one when I first moved to this area and gave it away last year so it would have done me around 16 years. I replaced the tail piece before I parted with it as it had gone a bit rusty but saw no reason why it shouldn't do someone else another 16 years.

We could argue this all we want but nothing is likely to change my own opinion of that instrument based on using one for a reasonable length of time and having goes on things of similar and of greater price (although nothing really expensive) over the years.

Of course someone else might find things different but that's how I found things.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 10:23 AM

So far the bias for expensive instruments here is focused on 'pure' acoustic players..

But when pickups, mics, EQ, and speakers enter the equation...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 10:56 AM

I rarely venture that way pfr... Of course the slightly better volume of that cheap mandolin I had would cease to be an issue there and the Buchanan would win out on tone and I think in feeling nicer to play too.

My Yamaha AR3 has pretty decent electronics but in my own rare home dabblings, I've wound up sending it through a Zoom A2.1 to modiy the tone a touch. My cheap Jay Turser which I like to play will plug in but isn't too clever.

I've nothing else acoustic built to plug in and attempts with external pickups haven't been that great. Mics, of the little I've acquired, Rhode M2 for voice and M5 on instrument seems to work at home as well as anything *when* I've set things up.

But that's me... I have mixer, amp, etc. too and dabble one in a while (even have Yamaha Pacifica and Roland GR55 and solid mandolin). Not averse to playing around for my own amusement and once in a while get the crazy notion I might to something... But really I think my place in music when I do get out is the sessions to informal folk club type things.

Subject: RE: Tech: Gretsch mandolin
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 02:05 PM

Just a side comment on makers as it cropped up. Neither "Vintage" or "Ozark" are makers. They are music wholesalers. "Vintage" is a label of John Hornby Skewes and "Ozark" of Stentor, I think both pretty big in the UK. As far as I understand things they just source instruments to supply to music shops.

I don't know the situation now but much (although not that mando, these were East European), even lower range products from better named brands seemed to have been made by Samick, a South Korean company, or similar maker.

At higher ends, you will be getting the hand made traditional luthier stuff (and Buchanan is one of these) but I'd think there is a lot of quite useable and playable stuff, including "badged" coming from these factories.