BS: uk politics

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 04:52 AM

David,
Probably in homes that they would help build.

Only if others are denied homes David.
There was a huge shortage of housing before the current wave of mass immigration began, and it has worsened every year under every government because homes can not be built at that rate.
Likewise provision of services for a whole new city every year.

We used to manage without mass immigration.
Other countries like Japan and Poland manage with almost none.
Who benefits? Employers especially government from a supply of pre-trained undemanding labour, and landlords.
Who suffers? Those poor sods at the sharp end competing for jobs while wages fall, rents are driven upwards, and their schools and hospitals suffer overcrowding.

If they complain, they are racists.
Labour won back many such people from UKIP, but the latest policy could drive them all back again.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 04:53 AM

"This door has NOT been closed. Brexit has not yet been achieved."
This is what is quite likely
If we won't accept immigrants, why should anyone else?
"I suppose we import all our plumbers, electricians, car mechanics, carpenters."
Is this a rhetorical question?
We always have - there are plenty of English workers living in Ireland at present
Skilled workers have always emigrated 0- as far as Australia, to find work or get higher pay
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 05:00 AM

If we won't accept immigrants

No-one has suggested stopping all immigration.

If we won't accept immigrants, why should anyone else?

Few countries, if any, allow free movement. Not USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand,....

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 05:01 AM

You can actually read, can you, Teribus? In my last post I criticised Blair for perpetuating Thatcher's ideological meddling in education. So where did I show any loyalty there?! Second point: if you really think that the entity which was Blair's New Labour is the same thing as Corbyn's party then you haven't been keeping up. As for betraying and letting us down, you ain't seen nothing yet. Fifteen months after the disastrous result of Cameron's betrayal of the country, we are in a state of paralysis with the EU snarling around us and no sign of a deal, captained rudderlessly by an illegitimate prime minister whose incompetence and ineptitude knows no bounds. Tell you what, Bill, another couple of years of this tragicomedy and even you will be voting for Corbyn.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 05:07 AM

Do not worry Steve. EU needs a deal too.
If one is not forthcoming, worst case, we will still have WTO trade with them and will not have to pay their ridiculous divorce bill.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 06:12 AM

Why don't we calm down and talk about lesser religions.

Politics is a belief system. Proof (dressed up as incontravertable fact but still mere opinion) can be seen above.

Brexit, love it or hate it is a slow car crash. Predicated on the hope it will be more lucrative but founded on a belief (pick yer pecadillo).

Hard truth is that change costs money. Always has, always will. It costs in unintended (read unthought through) consequences. It costs the losers and there are always some who don't deserve it.

The BREXIT argument (not fact, note) is that the equation results in profits, but in reality only results in prophets. The payback takes time - 10 years suit you? - Sir!
By which time the BRIC countries will loom large and squeeze the profits from the UK (et al). It is happening already.
The goal posts will have moved.

The problem with predicting the future is that it is formulated on past events. Which on a rising curve often works. But we are not on the rise, the ride is bumpy for us right now and if anything overall progress is not necessarily to our advantage as an Emperor once said.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 06:31 AM

The positions taken for or against Brexit have the implicit assumption that the EU will for the remainders:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the EU

Whereas for Brexit:

O lord God arise,
Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall!
Confound their knavish tricks,
Confuse their politics,
On you our hopes we fix,
God save the Queen!

To my mind there is no certainty that the EU will continue in it's present form for any length of time. This could make both positions redundant in the fullness of time.
An attempt was made to reform the institution from within. It failed.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 06:34 AM

"No-one has suggested stopping all immigration."
Within days of Brexit being announced, people of an obviously non-English background were being approached in the street and asked when they were "going home"
The number of racist incidents rocketed
The Uksick poster depicted "hordes" of beturbaned, robed, non-white immigrants queuing up to enter Britain - our resident ultra-right bigot has extended that to include the Slavs.
Brexit was sold to the British people on the "lets stop immigration" ticket - the banks and commerce all opposed it on economic grounds - there was no other articulate argument put forward other than to stop immigration.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-racism-hate-crime-figures-rise-white-british-being-attacked-a7360836.html
You people have been so blinder by your Little Engladism that you haven't even begun to address the practical problems Brexit has brought about
A month or so ago, The Bank of England issued a statement declaring that the basic standard living of people in Britain (real people - not entrepreneurs, bankers and the elite) will continue to be effected adversely for at least a decade
Add to that the possibility of those working in Europe having to return home and join the already considerable dole queues.... economic and social chaos
Mind you - this might be relived a little by the extra employees needed to process those we might have to deport!!
"Oh to be in England now that Brexit's here"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Stu
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 06:39 AM

Brexit has made this country a place I no longer want to live as we regress back to the little Englander, racist ignorance and stupidity I grew up with in the 1970s. A country ruled by rich people and the establishment, protecting their own and fuck everyone else. It's ever been thus I suppose, but I don't like the atmosphere of the place, it's got a tinge of nastiness about it; always happens when the tories are in, and this lot are very bad - just see how they are fucking up the Brexit negotiations. Way out of their depth.

I'm stuck here though, got family to think of. Plus I'm potless.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:10 AM

Well, Me Red, 'change costs money'? The first example that came to my mind was the building of canals. That was a change, and it cost loads of money, but before too much time it sparked the industrial revolution and lots of people got very rich. The country, as a whole, definitely benefited.

My expectation is that Brexit will enable the UK to react to, and exploit, world changes, and opportunities, more quickly than it could do as part of the EU. In the long run we will all get richer.

The negotiations conference yesterday was a revelation. People against Brexit say the UK has more to loose than the EU. In terms of trade, if we move to World Trade rules, the EU has more to loose than the UK. They sell more to us than we do to them. Then there is the matter of £11 billion a year that the UK contributes to the EU as a member. The EU will lose a lot of UK cash when we leave.

Why do you think the EU wants to take the UK's money contribution out of the negotiations before they discus trade? Because if they don't their weak position is even weaker.

The EU, by it's very nature, is inflexible. 27, soon to be 26, have to say 'yes'. to get anything done. It is one, amongst many, of the reasons I voted to leave. Had the EU been more flexible David Cameron would have gotten some real reforms before the referendum. They weren't, he didn't and we voted leave. Now the EU insists that we give them a load of money before we discuss a trade deal. I hope that David Davies continues to say no. Who in their right mind would agree to buy something without knowing what they were buying?

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:11 AM

Wouldn't be half so bad if there actually WERE any meaningful negotiations. I've never seen such a shambles in my life. How much longer are we supposed to have to do deals? The best we can hope for (and I have a feeling it may actually happen something like this) is for a fudge lasting about ten years then everyone turning around scratching their heads saying "Didn't we vote to leave? Are we still in or what? Buggered if I know..."

Anyway, Theresa May says she's staying on. On her past record, that means she'll be gone within weeks....

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:14 AM

Jim:
Brexit was sold to the British people on the "lets stop immigration" ticket - the banks and commerce all opposed it on economic grounds - there was no other articulate argument put forward other than to stop immigration.
State that as often as you wish, but it will not make it true.
Many people voted to leave because they do not wish to be ruled by Europe (Just as you seem to wish Ireland had self-determination from Britain).
It suited the remain campaign to try to paint those in favour of Brexit as racists who wished to stop all immigration. That was never the case.
I accept that some who voted for Brexit may have done it for xenophobic reasons, but it is totally inaccurate to state that that was the sole reason.

A month or so ago, The Bank of England issued a statement declaring that the basic standard living of people in Britain (real people - not entrepreneurs, bankers and the elite) will continue to be effected adversely for at least a decade
Yes, and we all remember the Bank's scare stories before the Brexit vote. (Since recanted)

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:18 AM

"Freedom of Movement" isn't the same thing as an automatic right to remain. The EU legislation I referred to earlier, and which the UK has chosen not to enact gives Member States the right to remove immigrants from other EU Member States who have not, within three months of arrival, obtained employment or have sufficient private means to support themselves and their families.

So much for the BrexShitter's usual bollocks about the EU forcing the U.K. to allow 'Imagrunts (sic) to come here to claim are (sic) benifits (sic).

Seems that the average BrexShitters' lack of English skills mirrors their lack of understanding of EU Immigration rules.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:20 AM

"My expectation is that Brexit will enable the UK to react to, and exploit, world changes,"
In order to do that, Britain needs industries - to be self-sufficient, if not to export
At present we are reliant on cheap imports produced in countries paying starvation wages under appalling conditions
When these conditions produce a flow of economic migrants, we close our doors to them
We export arms to dynastic tyrants like the Saudis our Assad ( it has already been announced that this particular war criminal is "here to stay" and the forthcoming immigration laws will ascertain that there will be no sanctuary for his victims when he bengins to extract his revenge on his opponents
We involve ourselves in oil wars which produce floods of refugees - we would rather watch their children be pulled dead out of the sea rather than give them the sanctuary Britain has always been proud of in the past
Not only have we reverted to the predatory nature of Empire, but we have allowed our 'great and good' to brutalise us as human beings.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:21 AM

"Anyway, Theresa May says she's staying on. On her past record, that means she'll be gone within weeks...."

Please God, make it so...

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:25 AM

On a financial note on the exchange rate in Sept 2015 the pound would get you 1.41 Euro, today it is worth 1.08 Euro.

33 cents per pound less. Around 23% less.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:39 AM

The first example that came to my mind was the building of canals.

Many canals didn't get finished (Leominster eg) or lost money when they were completed, dividends were modest. Then when the railways came they lost money to the point they were vulnerable to the railway companies who wanted their cuttings and near zero inclines. Pick yer timescales as to cost/profit - think restoration!
My own Stroudwater currently needs £18 million to connect the restored section to the system. The 6 miles already done cost over £10 million. The benefit is: I can walk to Stroud unparticulated along a pleasant verdant corridor. The payback is ephemeral, but I favour the project, so that is justified. Oh Yes It Is!

Change costs money. Payback period is never instant. And something as complex as a country replete with H&S, Trading Standards, and self-serving politicians etc is not what I would class as simple. Hidden costs are in there. And consequences like a nationalised bank opening a new trading house in Europe to be able to compete are but the tip of the proverbial.

In the long run you are predicting the future from historical experience. It is a hope (aka belief system, aka religion) that 65 million comfortable peeps can compete with 2000 million low paid. Who can buy us out!
In the short run the pound is weaker and your food is costing more, and there is more to come!
Global warming will confuse the general picture to the point that the yessers will have a getout. FWIW Global warming is a change that will cost! Like more rainfall. Any current evidence/consequence/cost there?

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:39 AM

"State that as often as you wish, but it will not make it true."
BREAKING POINT
Ake has aleardy given us a glowing testimonial of Usick's acheivements
"Without UKIP, we would be hosting 350,000 EU immigrants per year for ever..."
That was how Brexit was sold - state otherwise if you wish - as often as you like, but that will not make it true
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:56 AM

Jim,
Maybe you should read the link you posted.
The poster was not posted with agreement of all those who voted for Brexit. In fact your link states:
Johnson, who leads the official Vote Leave campaign, said the poster was "not our campaign" and "not my politics". Drawing a distinction between his own view and those of Farage, he suggested that leaving the EU would be a way of "spiking the guns" of anti-immigrant feeling. "If you take back control, you do a great deal to neutralise anti-immigrant feeling generally," he said, after reporters showed him a picture of the poster. "I am passionately pro-immigration and pro-immigrants."

Immigration is not the problem. Uncontrolled immigration is. Even Angela Merkel now seems to accept that her 'open door' policy for Germany was a mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:57 AM

That's right, Raggytash, and that is fuelling inflation that employers can't hope to match with equivalent pay rises. So the standard of living of the people at the bottom especially keeps on diving. Jim, there'll be plenty of new food bank jobs, so we'll all be OK then won't we. Another part of this epic Tory balls-up.

"Ruled by Europe - " well, Nigel, anyone who was told that was lied to. Over 95% of the laws that apply to EU countries have been AGREED TO WHOLEHEARTEDLY by successive UK governments. As for the other five percent, well what large organisation is ever going to enjoy full agreement about everything? If ever a word was dishonestly over-employed in any campaign, it was "control" in that referendum campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Stu
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 08:49 AM

Brexit has poisoned the political atmosphere of this country. There is are a huge number of people whose opinions are sidelined as the major parties flap and bluster over what sort of mess they prefer.

It's turning the island into a horrible place to live, dumbed down and backward.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 09:05 AM

"said the poster was "not our campaign" "
They would say that, wouldn't they, especially when there was a possibility of the posters being prosecuted.
"spiking the guns"
Since then, the arguments have been about 'protecting our borders and controlling the inflow"
There has never been such an animal as "uncontrolled immigration" - that is an invention of the bumwipe press
All immigration is controlled - Europe is about a two-way street, allowing member states to share the right to move - not "uncontrolled immigration.
The rise in racist incidents following the result speaks for itself - instead of responding you offer denials of what is obviously true
None of you have bothered to comment on economic consequences - as for the moral obligation of accepting refugees from situations we have helped create - I may as well be writing in Sanskrit - in no longer appears part of the English psyche
We have a moral obligation as human beings to open our borders to people we are helping to impoverish and terrorise
One of our most stable economies is Arms Sales
The Arab Spring protests to improve the conditions of many of these countries were barely a week old when Cameron hosted a massive arms fair to sell weapons to some of the worst offenders.
Britain was selling riot control equipment to Assad, who had a decade old record of torture and mass murder - while his snipers were offering packets of cigarettes as prizes to those who could kill a woman acd a child she was carrying with one bullet, evidence emerged that Britain had sold sniper ammunition to Syria.
Our arms trade has made Britain complicit in war crimes and mass murder and we are turning away the fleeing victims.
Is that your idea of Britain standing on its own two feet?
It's not mine
EXPLOITATION of the POOR
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 09:12 AM

" I may as well be writing in Sanskrit"

I WISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 09:40 AM

"I WISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Does that mean you wouldn't have to respond to my points Iains - whoops sorry - you aren't anyway
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 11:01 AM

Many of our remainers here are also Cobyn supporters.

Do you think he was wrong to say that UK can be better off outside, and that he has no "no principled objection to ending the free movement of European workers in the UK."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/09/jeremy-corbyn-uk-is-better-off-out-of-eu-with-managed-migration

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 11:58 AM

"evidence emerged that Britain had sold sniper ammunition to Syria"

Really Jom?? What "evidence" has emerged? You were asked to produce "evidence" about four years ago and you singularly failed to do so.

Are you sure it was Britain - as in the British Government - who sold this ammunition? Before all we got was a vague reference in a newspaper article that in 2009 an export licence had been granted to a private individual to export Standard NATO ammunition worth £30,000 to Syria (So The ammunition was not being sold to Syria by the British Government). There was no confirmation in the newspaper that the sale ever went through, or that the ammunition was ever sent to Syria.

So tell us Jom what is this new evidence - absolutely dying to hear a verifiable version of it.

"The Arab Spring protests to improve the conditions of many of these countries were barely a week old when Cameron hosted a massive arms fair to sell weapons to some of the worst offenders."

As international trade fairs take months to organise I think the start of the Arab Spring protests and the timing of the arms fair were purely coincidental. When the old USSR collapsed they left a bit of a vacuum in their old stomping grounds - in any area of trade where vacuums occur they tend to be filled rather quickly. The weapons and munitions used to kill the vast majority of people in Syria Jom come from Russia.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Stu
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 12:00 PM

"Do you think he was wrong to say that UK can be better off outside, and that he has no "no principled objection to ending the free movement of European workers in the UK.""

Yes, he was. But then he never was in favour of the EU. 48% of the country has no-one to look after their interests or voice their opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 12:36 PM

Yes Keith, he was wrong to say that.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 01:28 PM

"Britain was selling riot control equipment to Assad, who had a decade old record of torture and mass murder - while his snipers were offering packets of cigarettes as prizes to those who could kill a woman acd a child she was carrying with one bullet, evidence emerged that Britain had sold sniper ammunition to Syria."
I suppose offering some sort of evidence to support the above would be asking the impossible.
No doubt you also have the delusion that the Arab Spring was a totally spontaneous affair in each country-the downtrodden seeking their freedom rather than sheep being led by the nose.
"One of our most stable economies is Arms Sales" not quite sure what that means. Depending on whose figures you regard as reliable(by no means an easy task to assess) Britain ranks behind America, Russia, China, France and Germany so your spurious arguments should perhaps be run by them first to gauge the response.
In reality the entire post has little to do with Brexit and more to do with Jimmys view of the world

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 01:45 PM

Stu.
But then he(Corbyn) never was in favour of the EU.

As you said a couple of days ago, "Only an idiot would vote to leave the EU."

I think he was right about that and you are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 01:49 PM

"I suppose offering some sort of evidence to support the above would be asking the impossible."
I suppose it's out of the question that yo might look it up for yourself?
It's common knowledge
I suggest you dig up the disgustingly over-long Homs Horror thread where two of our prime suspects did double somersaults first denying, then defending these sales
All the evidence is there - in spades
One of our suspects offered seven different and at times contradictory excuses for the sniper ammo sales which was licenced for import by the Government
It was admittedly a small amount but it came at a time when Assad's snipers would have been in training.
I might have mentioned the chemicals capable of being included in the manufacture of weapons, for which Britain was internationally condemned.
All this took place after the Amnesty report on Syria's record of torture and mass murder were public knowledge.
I seem to remember you dismissed reports by Amnesty as 'fake news'
"What "evidence" "#You've had it Teribus - you were the one who produced the seven contradictory excuses, so you already know this
"Jom" I've decided that responding to a self-imposed semi-literate is likely to do more harm than good, so until you learn some manners and get my name right, I suggest you don't expect a response from me
I really am not qualified enough to know how to deal with somebody with your psychological hangups - your inferiority complex is now getting way beyond a complex
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 02:40 PM

Stu was right and Corbyn was wrong. As everybody sometimes is. But, in particular, his comment against free movement was wrong, and was not something which anybody with a socialist or social democratic outlook should ever have said. Free movement is the bedrock of human rights.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Stu
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 04:04 PM

"I think he was right about that and you are wrong."

Oh.

Time will tell, and I am wrong much of the time. In this case though, I can't see any progressive policies emerging. In fact, the opposite as the atmosphere in the country has become distinctly unpleasant since the vote, back to some sort of Garnett-like islander mentality and longing for empire.

Sad, really.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 04:16 PM

"Free movement is the bedrock of human rights."

Who's human rights? The immigrants or the indigenous population?

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 04:26 PM

Everybody's human rights. With freedom of movement you too can move.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 05:46 PM

and why would anybody want to move to Poland or Romania?

The immigrants I talked to are heading for Bulgaria

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 05:51 PM

Anyway you're missing the point about the lack of training opportunities while a pool of immigrant workers is available.

Didn't take you guys long to get off that subject.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 06:58 PM

my parents had lived through a period of mass unemployment and great poverty.

i think my parents saw education as a way that would ensure i and my sister would never face such deprivations.

And so i was educated. hours of homework every night so i got in the A class , where all the richer kids were in, and i passed the 11 plus.

but i wasn't the ideal subject for education - never could learn lists of words - latin declensions, french irregular verbs, the periodic table - hydrogen, helium, berilium, boron .carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, fluorine, neon, sodium, magnesium, aluminium, silicon, phosphorus.... i'm sure i would have preferred learning to flip burgers.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 07:53 PM

Big Al:
but i wasn't the ideal subject for education - never could learn lists of words - latin declensions, french irregular verbs, the periodic table - hydrogen, helium, berilium, boron .carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, fluorine, neon, sodium, magnesium, aluminium, silicon, phosphorus.... i'm sure i would have preferred learning to flip burgers.

Sorry, I have to say it. You're right about not learning lists. Lithium fits between Helium & Beryllium.
I learnt the mnemonic (in school 40+ years ago) as:
Hydrogen (obviously first & lightest, so no need to include it in the mnemonic)
Here Little Beggar Boys Catch Newts Or Fish. (Helium Lithium Beryllium Boron Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Flourine)
New Nature Magnifies All Sin, P.S. Chlorine. (Neon Sodium Magnesium Aluminium Silicon Phosphorus Sulphur Chlorine)
A(r) King Can Scan, 'Tis Vain Cries Man. (Argon Potassium Calcium Scandium Titanium Vanadium Chromium Manganese)

Cheers
Nigel
(hoping I've made no cock-ups with that list)

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 08:55 PM

i suppose one side effect was that i have limited sympathy for folksingers who can't be arsed to learn three or four verses of songs that most of the audience know.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 02:42 AM

"In reality the entire post has little to do with Brexit and more to do with Jimmys view of the world"
Then you are free to dismantle everything I have put up with evidence of your own - all I have claimed is fully accesible
Britain - only sixth in the arms sales market - we really are trailing, aren't we !!!!!
You have responded to nothing, neither are your few friends - the implications of selling weapons and riot control equipment to mass murderers then denying their victims sanctuary, tha massive rise in racism in Britain, the increasing gap between haves and have nots - not just in Britain, but throughout the world   
And you all stay silent and allow Ake to continue his racist rant.
Recently, the most urgent threat has been the rise of Isis, which is directly attributable to Western support for the despotic regimes we sell arms to.
"Jimmys view of the world"
Your childish invective is not even original - it is a direct lift of tor apparent menror's (Teribus's) insecure bullying.
If you wish to debate, please do so like an adult
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 03:29 AM

The training opportunities are there Ake, its just that people won't take them up.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Stu
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 03:40 AM

"indigenous population"

Racist shite.

This sort of opinion is held by people who know little or nothing about he history of these islands.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 04:20 AM

"Racist shite."
Absolutely
We've ponced off these people for centuries and left their countries in shreds - pay-back time
This is racism at its most extreme
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 04:29 AM

Stu was right and Corbyn was wrong. As everybody sometimes is. But, in particular, his comment against free movement was wrong, and was not something which anybody with a socialist or social democratic outlook should ever have said

OK, but would any of you describe Corbyn as a little Englander, a racist or an idiot?
If not, please do not say that all leavers can be described by those soubriquets.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 04:31 AM

We've ponced off these people for centuries and left their countries in shreds - pay-back time

We are discussing migration from EU Jim.
Your claim is a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 04:32 AM

Is "indigenous" a racist word?

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Iains
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 04:52 AM

"it is a direct lift of tor apparent menror's (Teribus's) insecure bullying."
I ain't got a clue what you are babbling about jimmy. Your view of the world is totally divorced from reality and your proposed solutions would look good in a fantasy novel. And why this fixation on insecurity? Is it some mantra you trot out just to pad out your scribblings in the deluded belief that phsycho-babble adds credibility.

"Recently, the most urgent threat has been the rise of Isis, which is directly attributable to Western support for the despotic regimes we sell arms to."
I do not know what you spread on your toast in the morning but it is having a nasty effect on you. I suggest you read your above sentence and ponder as to whether you really meant what you wrote. The reality is that it is a war between factions that arose from a vacuum created by western interference in the area. Also some of their funding is obvious, some is very shady as is their help.
But then you were convinced the white helmets were on the side of the angels, rather than a cheap propaganda outfit with carefully staged "incidents" and cameras ready to roll at a moments notice.
And of course the link below you will disregard, even though it likely impacts on the area under discussion
http://www.blacklistednews.com/The_Reasons_for_Netanyahu%E2%80%99s_Panic/60639/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 05:15 AM

"Indigenous" was racist in the context in which it was used, set as it was against "immigrants." Don't be so disingenuous, unless you want to be branded racist yourself. And using the word to characterise a section of the population of this country betrays an abject ignorance of our history.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 06:18 AM

Sorry, Stu. I see I just did my parrot impersonation.