BS: brexit matters

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 03:21 AM

It is just a ploy to get the thread closed, Steve. They do it when they have nothing but insults left and then accuse others of doing the same. As soon as a moderator sees that this has turned into yet another platform for playground taunts it will go the way of all the others.

Pound to a penny one gobshite or the other will respond in a completely expected way ;-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 03:36 AM

I agree this is what happens Dave, but these people really mean what they say - their value is that they represent the values that decide things like Brexit and deals with shady regimes
Time to mobe on and have a sensible discussion aubot Brexit without the name calling and all too often strutting arrogance we have to deal with here - and not just on this thread
RIP to all this, eh lads?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 03:42 AM

To Shaw & Mr Carter,

Here is how it works. The immigrant seasonal workers do not work directly for a British employer. They are employed by a labour gang boss on contracts signed in their home countries, where that contract is enforceable in law. Gang boss has a contract to supply labour at legal wage limit plus a margin - otherwise the British party would be breaking the law. Gang boss pockets the money pays out the amount agreed with the worker then deducts travel and accommodation at extortionate rates. THAT Mr Carter is what your EU freedom of movement allows.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 04:29 AM

Getting a few rather hysterical people here. Need to take a few deep breaths and calm down. Good to see you behaving as normal. Nothing sensible to offer so just throw out a few insults in the hope the forum fairy will close this thread as well.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 04:33 AM

Who says we're only talking about seasonal workers, WOODCOCK? Free movement involves a hell of a lot more than just them. Not only that, if they come to the UK for seasonal work only they are not "immigrants."

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 04:53 AM

Look further down the thread SHAW, the subject under discussion did centre around seasonal agricultural workers. Of course paying attention to what others have to say is not one of your strongpoints. Same thing applies in other types of work. The EU has not dictated a standard hourly minimum wage - member states would not tolerate that so it is perfectly legal to get contacts for low wages signed in one country for work in another as I described.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 04:55 AM

"Getting a few rather hysterical people here. Need to take a few deep breaths and calm down. Good to see you behaving as normal. Nothing sensible to offer so just throw out a few insults in the hope the forum fairy will close this thread as well."

From: Iains - PM
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 03:41 PM

Jimmy and Shaw I could do a Father Christmas Ho Ho Ho after reading your respective posts. Just too funny for words. When do you start your comedy duo?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 04:58 AM

What a surprise. Inane but consistent :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 04:59 AM

"SHAW,"
Is it totally beyond your capabilities not to fuck up yet another thread with your arrogant bullying behaviour Teribus
Do you not realise that people regard your strutting and posturing with contempt?
Please give it a rest
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 05:02 AM

Of course we should realise that the terrible twins do not indulge in childish insults. It is sophisticated wit and cutting edge repartee when they do it. Makes them feel better about themselves I suppose.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 05:16 AM

If you wish to discuss the immigrants who work here permanently for UK employers, Bill Woodcock, you are not talking about those seasonal workers who work for yer Lincolnshire farmers. They are not immigrants. You conflated them with real immigrants. Not only that, they are not the people "driving wages down." Those seasonal workers have no control over what they get paid. It's those gangmasters and the employers here who collude with them who drive wages down, and it's illegal if the pay is less than the minimum wage. Any worker, seasonal or not, migrant or not, who works in this country must by law be paid the minimum wage at least. The only allowable deductions from their wages that can reduce them to below the minimum wage are for supplied accommodation and there are limits on what can be deducted for that. If there are employers or gangmasters or whoever who cause workers to receive less, they are BREAKING THE LAW. This whole discussion about migrant workers is bogus unless we home in on the real culprits. Why don't we ask why the law isn't being enforced? It is within the government's gift to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 05:17 AM

Please don't react to their "sophisticated wit and cutting edge repartee"
Dave
Iains has made it quite clear that'
s exactly what they want.
Still plenty more to discuss on brexit without hem
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 05:23 AM

Introduction: migrant workers in the UK

Migrant workers are people who come from other countries to work in the UK. Migrant workers include seasonal workers, full-time and part-time employees, and contract or self-employed workers.

Registering for a national insurance number

To work legally in the UK all migrant workers, including those from the European Union, must register for a national insurance (NI) number. You can start work before you have an NI number, but you will be charged emergency tax until you have one.

Pay rates for migrant workers

As a migrant worker you are protected by the same laws that protect other workers in the UK. You should receive equal pay to British workers doing the same work.

The national minimum wage

The national living wage and national minimum wage set minimum hourly rates that employers must legally pay workers in the UK.

Check your pay rate

The national living wage and minimum wage does not apply if you are genuinely self-employed.

If you are being paid per piece of work you finish rather than per hour, the total that you are paid must at least be equal to being paid the national minimum wage for the hours it takes you to do the work.

Payslips

You should receive a payslip either before or on the day you are paid. This should clearly show your total pay before tax and any deductions, as well as the amount you are actually being paid (your take-home pay). All deductions must be clearly listed.

Deductions

Tax and national insurance (NI) will be taken from your pay. How much is deducted depends on how much you earn.

No other deductions can be taken from your wages, unless they are written in your contract, or you have agreed to them with your employer before they are made. Any agreement must be confirmed in writing.

Even if you have agreed to a deduction, your employer cannot take off money so that you end up being paid less than the minimum wage, except for accommodation. Even for accommodation there is a limit to how much your employer can take from your pay.

If you think your employer is deducting too much for accommodation then call the Pay and Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368 or speak to your UNISON rep.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 05:25 AM

That last post went prematurely - sorry. I meant to edit it but I won't bother now. It's from UNISON's website.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 06:22 AM

From the Guardian, a month before the referendum.

"The Office of National Statistics says that while the numbers of EU workers in Britain has risen by 700,000 since 2013, they are outnumbered by the extra one million Britons who have gone into employment in the same period. The number of British citizens working in the UK labour force is now at the near-record level of 28 million. That compares with 3 million foreign nationals.

As the economist Jonathan Portes has pointed out, it is not a zero-sum game in which there are only a fixed number of jobs to go round: "It's true that, if an immigrant takes a job, then a British worker can't take that job – but it doesn't mean he or she won't find another one that may have been created, directly or indirectly, as a result of immigration."

HMRC figures also show that EU migrants more than pay their way. Those who arrived in Britain in the last four years paid £2.54bn more in income tax and national insurance than they received in tax credits or child benefit in 2013-14. The Office of Budget Responsibility has estimated that their labour contribution is helping to grow the economy by an additional 0.6% a year...

...The Uk Statistics Authority also stresses that the number of people in work is not the same as the number of jobs in the economy. The ONS figures are estimates of the numbers of people in employment, so it is nonsense to talk about them showing "foreigners taking British jobs". They also stress that the figures do not reflect new migration, since they only cover those migrants who come to work, and some of those newly employed may well have been in the UK for some time.

What about the claim that they are depressing wages, particularly for the low-paid?

The most recent research from the centre for economic performance at the London School of Economics says "the areas of the UK with large increases in EU immigration did not suffer greater falls in the jobs and pay of UK-born workers. The big falls in wages after 2008 are due to the global financial crisis and a weak economic recovery, not to immigration."

Several studies have shown a small negative effect of migration on the wages of low-skilled workers in certain sectors in certain parts of the country, particularly care workers, shop assistants, and restaurant and bar workers. The effect has been measured at less than 1% over a period of eight years.

The LSE's Jonathan Wadsworth said: "The bottom line, which may surprise many people, is that EU immigration has not harmed the pay, jobs or public services enjoyed by Britons. In fact, for the most part it has likely made us better off. So, far from EU immigration being a "necessary evil" that we pay to get access to the greater trade and foreign investment generated by the EU single market, immigration is at worse neutral, and at best, another economic benefit."


If you're too impatient or blinkered to read that, or think that everything in the Guardian is automatically a pile of poo, the bulk of it is utterly factual. Admittedly it's about 16 months out of date by now but it confronts arguments used that persuaded people to vote leave. What emerges is that:

Migrant workers do not take British workers' jobs.

Migrant workers do not "drive wages down."

Migrant workers do not overload public services.

Migrant workers actually create extra jobs by coming here.

Migrant workers make a significant net contribution to the economy and are in no way a financial burden to the country. In fact, they contribute significantly to our economic growth. We could do with a bit more of that.

The leave campaign was largely predicated on "taking back control of our borders." The facts show how bogus that argument was. We were being lied to.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 06:31 AM

What is more, Teribus completely fails to address the huge benefits of Free Movement for our young people, increased opportunities to work and study, improve their knowledge and cultural understanding. The argument against is entirely bogus. The arguments for are compelling.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 06:47 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XZzglak-q4

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 06:59 AM

More useful input to the discussion. Carry on if you want to see the thread closed but don't moan when it is.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 07:00 AM

Iains, this thread, less than two hours ago.

"Nothing sensible to offer so just throw out a few insults in the hope the forum fairy will close this thread as well."

Who's the real clown around here, Iains?

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 07:04 AM

Steve Shaw:
The national minimum wage
The national living wage and national minimum wage set minimum hourly rates that employers must legally pay workers in the UK.
Check your pay rate
The national living wage and minimum wage does not apply if you are genuinely self-employed.

Unfortunately, quoting from a Union's website may not always get you a full or factual answer.
From HMRC Here the list of those who may not be covered by National Minimum Wage is somewhat longer:

The following types of workers aren't entitled to the National Minimum Wage or National Living Wage:
• self-employed people running their own business
•company directors
• volunteers or voluntary workers
•workers on a government employment programme, such as the Work Programme
•members of the armed forces
•family members of the employer living in the employer's home
•non-family members living in the employer's home who share in the work and leisure activities, are treated as one of the family and aren't charged for meals or accommodation, for example au pairs
•workers younger than school leaving age (usually 16)
•higher and further education students on a work placement up to 1 year
•workers on government pre-apprenticeships schemes
•people on the following European Union programmes: Leonardo da Vinci, Youth in Action, Erasmus, Comenius
•people working on a Jobcentre Plus Work trial for 6 weeks
•share fishermen
•prisoners
•people living and working in a religious community

Work experience and internships

You won't get the National Minimum Wage or National Living Wage if you're:
•a student doing work experience as part of a higher or further education course
•of compulsory school age
•a volunteer or doing voluntary work
•on a government or European programme
•work shadowing

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 07:15 AM

"You won't get the National Minimum Wage or National Living Wage if you're:"
Wonder if itt's considered that all those on the list are not worth it or just that the poor, hard-pushed employer can't afford it?
God knows - the minimum wage is minimum enough as it is - nobody can live decently on it

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 07:26 AM

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 07:15 AM

"You won't get the National Minimum Wage or National Living Wage if you're:"
Wonder if it's considered that all those on the list are not worth it or just that the poor, hard-pushed employer can't afford it?
God knows - the minimum wage is minimum enough as it is - nobody can live decently on it
Fortunately the list you're referring to is very short, and there would be valid reasons to exclude the following from the minimum wage legislation:
•a student doing work experience as part of a higher or further education course
•of compulsory school age
•a volunteer or doing voluntary work
•on a government or European programme
•work shadowing

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 07:33 AM

"More useful input to the discussion. Carry on if you want to see the thread closed but don't moan when it is."

But as the "effin and blindin" in some of the posts above above came from a leftard then that is perfectly ok and to be encouraged?
The post is not even deleted!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 07:46 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeHN92SX-5Y

A very interesting speech from the European Parliament building.
A perspective of where we are!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 07:54 AM

"But as the "effin and blindin" in some of the posts above above came from a leftard then that is perfectly ok and to be encouraged?"
And the personal abuse and hate comes from you and the rest of the right
"Fortunately the list you're referring to is very short, a"
O that's alright then - it's ok to force people to live on a pittance as long as there's only a few of them
One of the great injustices of our society is that there isn't an enforceable Living Wage - as I keep saying - go and look at the growing gap between haves and have nots and the amount that the nation is deprived of by the rich not paying its tax
Of courres, all those greedy workers moonlighting their labour to pay for their second homesin the Bahamas and Jags must be crippling our country
Lock 'em all up and throw away the key, I say
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:06 AM

"effin and blindin" may be not acceptable in polite company but it is neither abuse nor insulting in itself. No matter how politely you put them, insults are still insults.

Talking down to someone is far more insulting that telling them to fuck off. In my opinion.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:06 AM

So, Nigel, how is that germane to the discussion about EU migrants working in agriculture? If you don't trust a union's website I assure you that the same information is available elsewhere. I'm making the simple point that migrant workers working in this country on whatever basis must be paid at least the UK minimum wage. That's the law. The only deduction that may be made, apart from tax (probably irrelevant in many cases) and NI, is for any accommodation provided, and there are strict rules about the quality of that accommodation and how much may be deducted. It isn't very much. Of course, what actually happens may not comply with the law. But that is the law, and no gangmaster or UK employer may LEGALLY concoct a situation in which foreign workers get less than the UK minimum wage. The leave campaign made great play of the lies that the country is being swamped, social services couldn't cope, British workers were being discriminated against by foreigners taking their jobs and "driving down wages." The counter-argument (aka the truth) that migrant workers provided a net benefit to the economy to the tune of billions a year, were significantly aiding economic growth, were NOT taking jobs away from British workers, were NOT driving down wages and were not unduly burdening public services was lost in the sloganising and populist pandering to the lowest instincts of people emanating from the leave side. Had those truths prevailed in the campaign, we would never have voted to leave. Immigration was the main plank of the leave campaign and the whole thing was predicated on a pack of lies sold to a public who had been groomed in this kind of xenophobia for years.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:27 AM

i used to work for this headmaster. we were in the inner ring of brum, and they'd imported him from Wales. they used to believe that headmasters were a bit like bloodstock, and to improve the line - you didn't get someone who knew the kids - you got someone who'd been a whizz amongst the sheep rustlers.

so the guy sat in his office , not daring to walk the corridors of his own school. making up rules we couldn't enforce. making jokes in assembly - he'd got from the readers digest, and we couldn't give a shit about and the kids couldn't understand.

laughter is the best medicine when you're confronted by an idiot.

Steve - the legal entitlements that you speak of have been unenforceable for generations. the agricultural workers are dependant on the gangers for work. the farmers are having their balls squeezed by government regs, they are squeezing the gangers.
they are vulnerable. they have an insurance card etc. but that is their situation - always has been. along come the seasonal workers. it used to be their wives and kids and traveller families. then along comes the economic migrants. they work for even less.

there are no bad guys. its what monkeys do. if you're not a monkey you won't really get it.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:33 AM

Steve.
If your message was "Germane to the conversation" then my correction of the 'facts' it contained must also have been.

As to your 'simplification of what the Guardian said:

You: Migrant workers do not take British workers' jobs.
The Guardian: "it is not a zero-sum game in which there are only a fixed number of jobs to go round: "It's true that, if an immigrant takes a job, then a British worker can't take that job – but it doesn't mean he or she won't find another one that may have been created, directly or indirectly, as a result of immigration". I doesn't say that he will find such a job, or try to state whether mass immigration creates more or less jobs than the number of immigrants.

You: Migrant workers do not "drive wages down."
The Guardian: "Several studies have shown a small negative effect of migration on the wages of low-skilled workers in certain sectors in certain parts of the country, particularly care workers, shop assistants, and restaurant and bar workers. The effect has been measured at less than 1% over a period of eight years." A small negative effect is, nonetheless an effect.

You: Migrant workers do not overload public services.
The Guardian: mentions this matter only in passing: "EU immigration has not harmed the pay, jobs or public services enjoyed by Britons."

You: Migrant workers actually create extra jobs by coming here.
The Guardian, does mention the creation of jobs because of immigration, but does not state whether this is a net gain in job numbers, or a net loss.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:35 AM

Mayfly proudly announced yesterday the unemployment was now at its lowest level
What she forgot to mention was this is because unemployed workers are now nbeing forced to take jobs they are not suited for, that they don't want an they come with unlivable-on wages - they are there to make the figures look good rather than halp the unemployed
It took Corbyn to point out that the real wages of those in work are gradually being driven down because of the steady rise in inflation
'And the gap grows wider, and wider and wider…." As the song nearly said
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:35 AM

Nigel Parsons, exactly which of the groups on your fairly long bullet pointed list do you think should be entitled to the National Living Wage? None of those groups are workers at all. The one group I am slightly surprised to find on there is Members of the Armed Forces, though I would think that they would in any case be paid considerably more. What your list does not say is Immigrants or Seasonal Workers, these are entitled to the NLW just the same as anybody else.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:52 AM

You are clutching at straws, Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:56 AM

From: David Carter (UK) - PM
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 08:35 AM

Nigel Parsons, exactly which of the groups on your fairly long bullet pointed list do you think should be entitled to the National Living Wage? None of those groups are workers at all. The one group I am slightly surprised to find on there is Members of the Armed Forces, though I would think that they would in any case be paid considerably more.
I am not making a claim for any of the listed groups. I am just providing the official guidance to which people are not entitled (at present).
For you to go on and say: What your list does not say is Immigrants or Seasonal Workers, these are entitled to the NLW just the same as anybody else.
That argument falls down as you equate them to "anybody else". As many others are excluded, then which 'anybody else' are you comparing them to?
Immigrants or seasonal workers may also be 'Company Directors' or 'Self-employed' and thus included in the list quoted.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 09:04 AM

So, Al, the gangers and the farmers are breaking the law. The migrant workers are not. They are being exploited by law-breakers. Saying that 'twas ever thus and sort of implying that there's no point fighting it is blinkered and defeatist, and that attitude has been allowed to make the innocents, the migrant workers, into scapegoats. It's the FOREIGNERS (the innocents) who were targeted by the leave campaign, not the farmers or the gangers (the criminals). Dunno about you, but I want to live in a country that operates under the rule of law. And the irony of the leave side's constant claiming that the dictatorial EU imposes it laws on us isn't lost on me. We can't even impose our own laws on ourselves.

By the way, we haven't had the minimum wage "for generations," Al.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 09:14 AM

If you're interested in "clutching at straws" you should read, Mr Juncker's speech from yesterday.

When Brexit was being debated (before the referendum) we were told that Brexit represented a leap into the dark, compared to the status quo of remaining in the EU.
Brexit argued that the status quo would not last, and that to remain would be a "leap in the dark".

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 09:28 AM

That post demonstrates nothing as far as I can see.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 09:41 AM

When people who wished to leave predicted a move towards a United States of Europe, those who wished to remain dismissed the idea as fantasy. It is now clear that that is the true European destiny. The same applies to the idea of a European army. Another idea, dismissed by those trying to persuade us to stay, confirmed by Mr Junker yesterday.-

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 09:47 AM

i want to live in Buckingham Palace - but that's not how it is.

what the fuck would the guardian know or care about the facts of life as lived on this island?

they're journalists with cushy jobs, a political agenda to push....

thus the stunned amazement at the result of the referendum. well bugger me sideways...there is a reality out there that we weren't aware of! How dare they disagree with the good people of Planet Radio 4?

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 10:09 AM

Juncker has been prattling on about a European army for years and it's getting no closer. Eurosceptics here have been prattling on about a United States of Europe for decades without actually explaining how the EU, with its highly-disparate states and cultures, each with its own strong sense of nationalism, not to speak of all the multiple languages and currencies, is ever going to become an across-the-pond copy of the US. It's one man's vision, there are plenty of powerful naysayers in the EU and, deep down, even you diehard brexiteers know that you will see neither in our lifetimes. Of course he wants more harmony in a frequently-turbulent EU. That's his job. But jumping on one man's very unoriginal speech in order to say there, told you so, we wuz right all along...very valiant of you. But I absolutely promise you that you won't be saying that in two years' time. If I'm wrong I'll eat Paddy Pantsdown's hat and appear on Match Of The Day in my underpants (if I can find any).

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 10:26 AM

well if he really wanted harmony and England not leaving the EU. He and all other EU big wigs should have treated David Cameron more courteously and left him a figleaf of self respect so that he could homeward in triumph.

they didn't . they treated the english pm like shit. and the english people got a very clear vision of the role they had in mind for us, and the regard they had for us - apart from our money - which they still seem to think they've got some sort of right to.

in truth we'll be holding our guts in for years after the years of filleting england's industry. 2 years doesn't even begin. but if you're in business with an asshole who has no respect for you. lose him ASAP.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 10:26 AM

Juncker has been prattling on about a European army for years and it's getting no closer. Eurosceptics here have been prattling on about a United States of Europe for decades without actually explaining how the EU, with its highly-disparate states and cultures, each with its own strong sense of nationalism, not to speak of all the multiple languages and currencies,
The disparate currencies won't be a problem. There was already a requirement for any new members of the EU to adopt the Euro. In yesterday's speech Mr Juncker call for more work to get rid of the disparate currencies.
Juncker proposed more help for all EU countries to join the euro, so that it could be truly "the single currency of the European Union", along with a wide range of institutional changes, including the creation of an EU finance minister and the widening of the Schengen area, in which passport-free travel is allowed.
(from The Guardian)

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 10:55 AM

I certainly agree with him about Schengen and I can't see that having a finance minister would be so bad. My feeling about the euro is that it was a massive mistake. It has certainly done very little to promote harmony or unity and has crucified at various times some of the poorer countries. There are times when your currency has to be allowed to float. The euro has benefited Germany way more and above all the other eurozone members. The architects of the single currency must have thought that there would be much more harmonisation of the relative wealth of the different economies. It was a nice idea but it was never going to happen.

As for showing Cameron more respect, what respect did he show the EU? He went in there guns blazing, full of hubris, promising us the earth, trying to kid them that they needed us so badly, with tbe blackmail of his referendum the only weapon in his armoury. He got next to nowt and that's precisely what he deserved. One thing's for sure. He doesn't deserve the respect of anyone in this country any more. Tragically, David Davis has the same attitude. The EU will manage very well without us. He doesn't see that. Juncker saw it precisely correctly yesterday. It took Farage's brainless intervention to draw it undiplomatically out of him.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 11:20 AM

As for showing Cameron more respect, what respect did he show the EU?
Showing Cameron more respect? I think you've just made that one up.
Respect needs to be earned. However, courtesy is due to anyone.
What Big Al actually said (not how you translated it) was:
should have treated David Cameron more courteously and left him a figleaf of self respect

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 11:33 AM

You are being deliberately obtuse Nigel. If Company Directors are immigrants, then their entitlement or otherwise to the NLW is exactly the same as any other company directors. As for seasonal workers being company directors, that is just silly.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 11:36 AM

Good heavens Shaw - the world as it should be according to UNITE - Wow.
Only Problem is the foreign contracts are legal and binding and because of EU law that permits gangs of labourers to be taken on in Bulgaria, Poland, etc and sent to work in the U.K. The ganger has a Company that has a contract with a British employer. The latter by the way IS paying the hanger' company the going rate.

Remember the Chinese "cocklers" in Morecombe Bay Shaw - they were working for Gangers who were connected to the Triads - not the most law abiding of organisations.

Try to limit you input to what happens in the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 12:18 PM

"i want to live in Buckingham Palace - but that's not how it is."
Why should anybody want to surround themself with such poor taste and ostentation?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 12:18 PM

"i want to live in Buckingham Palace - but that's not how it is."
Why should anybody want to surround themself with such poor taste and ostentation?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 12:23 PM

i've always liked the van dykes.
you can think - chopped that bastards head off!

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 12:31 PM

No foreign contract that ends up with workers in this country receiving less than the UK minimum wage is legal in this country. You are wrong about that. The information on the Unison website is no different from that on the government website. Your comment on that was pointless.

Subject: RE: BS: brexit matters
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Sep 17 - 12:41 PM

I'm really enjoying this.....the most intelligent and well versed contributors giving the remoaners the bums rush.

Also good stuff from Big Al straight from the heart.