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Urban Ballads

GUEST,katrobrosi 02 Oct 17 - 08:39 AM
Jack Campin 02 Oct 17 - 09:20 AM
GUEST,Paul Slade 02 Oct 17 - 09:59 AM
Dave Hanson 02 Oct 17 - 10:27 AM
Newport Boy 02 Oct 17 - 12:25 PM
Steve Gardham 02 Oct 17 - 01:14 PM
Roz 02 Oct 17 - 01:44 PM
Steve Gardham 02 Oct 17 - 02:12 PM
Severn 02 Oct 17 - 02:59 PM
Severn 02 Oct 17 - 02:59 PM
GUEST,henryp 02 Oct 17 - 03:33 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 02 Oct 17 - 10:44 PM
Reinhard 03 Oct 17 - 04:32 AM
SPB-Cooperator 05 Oct 17 - 05:49 AM
JHW 05 Oct 17 - 07:15 PM
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Subject: Urban Ballads
From: GUEST,katrobrosi
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 08:39 AM

Hi - I am researching Ballads (esp 19thC) on specifically urban topics; life in the emerging towns and cities. There are hundreds of ballads with a twonj mentioned but merely as the setting for some romance (thwarted and/or consummated); I'm more interested in songs that tell of the new lives people were leading. My researches have found perhaps 40 or 50 but I feel sure there are more out there. Any ideas would be welcomed. Cheers


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:20 AM

Roy Palmer specialized in this - look at his books.

I have a bunch from Edinburgh on my website - http://www.campin.me.uk .

Nigel Gatherer's "Songs and Ballads of Dundee" should be of interest. Also Jimmy Crowley's "Songs from the Beautiful City", about Cork. For Paris, look at P. Barbier and F. Vernillat, "Histoire de France pas les Chansons" - it's enormous and a real eye-opener about bits of history you'll never have thought about. There are also a fair few Yiddish songs, like "7:40" and "Kyever Tramvay" (both about Jewish workers commuting in the Ukraine).

Ther are probably a shitload of songs in a zillion languages that exactly fit your remit from 19th century New York and Chicago, but I don't know of any really thorough collections.

What's a twonj?


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: GUEST,Paul Slade
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 09:59 AM

Is London's 19th century crime and punishment of any interest to you? If so, this may help.


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:27 AM

OK what's a ' twonj ' then ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Newport Boy
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 12:25 PM

I guess a mistyped "town". I make those errors all the time - adjacent letters swapped and a fat finger on the "n".

Phil


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 01:14 PM

You will find numerous examples on the Bodleian Broadside Ballad website. Just type in the search box whichever trade you wish to investigate and add in nineteenth century. Failing that just browse. The 19th century sheets are in a majority there as you would expect and they are easily picked out when browsing by their 2-column format with between 2 and 4 songs.


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Roz
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 01:44 PM

In Dublin's fair city, where the girls are so pretty, twas there that I first met sweet Molly Mallone... That sort of ballad?


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 02:12 PM

I ought to add poverty, murder and prostitution as subjects in the search box would bring you up a host of examples. I'm presuming you've read the Henry Mayhew books as background.


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Severn
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 02:59 PM

Roz,

Some thiings I never figured out about Molly Malone.....

When her ghost wheels her barrow, do we still see the barrow, which is not a living thing, going down the road seemingly on its own or do we just hear her cries?

Are the cockles and mussels in the barrow still, indeed, ALIVE, and if so, where does she get fresh replacements?

If they are still alive, for how long? If they are dead, do people know that her ghost is approaching by the dead shellfish smell rather than her singing or the creaking of the barrow wheel? Do the living still pay her and where does she put the coins?

Do dead shellfish go to some sort of afterlife, which might get rid of the smell?

If the cockles and mussels are dead, stinking or not, do other ghosts buy and consume them?

If the bivalve mollusks are really dead, why does she lie to us?

Like Sysyphus, does her barrow ever get back to the top of the hill?




'Splain it to me, Kingfish......


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Severn
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 02:59 PM

Roz,

Some thiings I never figured out about Molly Malone.....

When her ghost wheels her barrow, do we still see the barrow, which is not a living thing, going down the road seemingly on its own or do we just hear her cries?

Are the cockles and mussels in the barrow still, indeed, ALIVE, and if so, where does she get fresh replacements?

If they are still alive, for how long? If they are dead, do people know that her ghost is approaching by the dead shellfish smell rather than her singing or the creaking of the barrow wheel? Do the living still pay her and where does she put the coins?

Do dead shellfish go to some sort of afterlife, which might get rid of the smell?

If the cockles and mussels are dead, stinking or not, do other ghosts buy and consume them?

If the bivalve mollusks are really dead, why does she lie to us?

Like Sysyphus, does her barrow ever get back to the top of the hill?




'Splain it to me, Kingfish......


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 03:33 PM

Edwin Waugh's dialect Lancashire Songs (1865) - and more - can be found here;

Lancashire Songs

He names existing tunes for some of the verses.


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Oct 17 - 10:44 PM

Dear Katorobski,

Perchance, would you list .... "found perhaps 40 or 50" examples would help.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

< "Priming the well can sometimes yield a gusher when things appear dry.


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: Reinhard
Date: 03 Oct 17 - 04:32 AM

A recent CD on this topic is Edward II's Manchester's Improving Daily.


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Oct 17 - 05:49 AM

Recommend Ashton - Modern Street Ballads


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Subject: RE: Urban Ballads
From: JHW
Date: 05 Oct 17 - 07:15 PM

As Molly's Ghost wheels her (I assume) ghostly barrow replete with ghostly unpalatable wares must she adhere to the confines of streets or variable width or could she indeed be up your way next week?


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