BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but

Subject: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:21 AM

.. but why delete the last 3 posts..

that just seems a bit randomly petty...???

Just how unacceptably politically dynamite is a reference to pies and pasties...!!!!!?????

Something has touched a raw nerve with a militant health diet freak...?????

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:25 AM

00ps..

i meant to type "closing a thread".. it's late...
not that any of this really matters...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 02:55 AM

I guess I got it figured out that you were talking about the Russia thread, PFR. I didn't close the thread and I rarely do, but that one has been looking ripe for closure for a number of days. Once a thread gets taken over by a small group, nobody else feels welcome there.
If we have too many threads like that, nobody feels welcome here at all. So, there has to be some sort of balance.
There's a moderator note at the end of the thread that says that the thread originator asked that it be closed. Don't know why the last three messages were deleted.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:07 AM

They were removed to finish the thread at a logical point without leaving any new points hanging.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:20 AM

If we can't take arguments to what we believe their logical directions, I'm gone from here - I see no point in hanging around
I'm saddened that Dave (of all people) chose to close the thread
I don't like the nastiness of some of the arguments we have become involved in, but on the other hand, anodyne back-slapping sessions are really not my thing
I have always read and considered what others have to say and have offered detailed argument when I was able - I have become thoroughly sickened at the dishonest, and often deeply personally insulting bhehavior of some who appear to want only to home with gold cup under their arm rather than exchange information - we've seen the long scoops of insulting behavior of posters incapable of posting intelligently - offering only bullying and extremely childish abuse -
Life really is too short
Sadly
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:57 AM

It is right to discuss these things Jim but why hijack someone else's thread in order to do so? I did not ask for it to be closed because of any nastiness, although there was plenty, but because that was simply the wrong thread to do it on. I started the thread and, as far as I am concerned, I have a say in the direction it takes. As I suggested, if you want to discuss Israel, start a thread on Israel. If anyone wants to discuss antisemitism, they can start a thread on antisemitism. If I start a thread on anything it is like inviting people to my party and if that party gets too wild, I will call the cops!

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 04:31 AM

"It is right to discuss these things Jim but why hijack someone else's thread in order to do so? "
If you believe that it is part of the argument it is not hijacking it, it is extending it
I am truely saddened if you believe that is what I do
I have often threatened to ask that a thread be closed - I never actually hade done so
I'm sorry that others have, especially those I respect
I'm off
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 04:58 AM

When someone tries to hijack a thread I am involved with, I just refuse to engage with the inruding issue.
I do not believe Dave wanted it closed because of thread creep. He wanted it closed because it was not going his way.
He and his friends had just been shown to be wrong about something they have been saying for years while heaping abuse on anyone who disagreed.
Boo hoo for them.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 04:59 AM

I just think there's an anti pasties and pies subtext here...

what next.. rissoles and faggots...!!!???

bloody upper middle classes and their poncy posh snacks.. worse than the Russians...



btw.. don't go Jim.. we need you...

[but ideally a tadge more self restrained under provocation from him we dare not name & cronies...]

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 05:01 AM

..blimey... talk of the devil...


btw ...I'm very surprised this cheeky little late night thread is still alive...
but if it can serve any positive purpose...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 05:02 AM

The thread was about Boris Johnson and the Salisbury poisoning debacle. I have no idea how it came to be discussing Israel and antisemitism. That is not a logical extension of the same argument. I am all for taking arguments to their logical conclusions but not for completely derailing them to suit an entirely different agenda.

If you disagree, fine, that is your prerogative. I can accept that it is not your view. But it is mine and it was a thread I started so I am sure you will allow me my voice as well.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 05:03 AM

Ignore the troll. I have already stated why the thread was closed.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 05:04 AM

..and as soon as I talked of him.. he was made to dissapear... spooky...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 05:12 AM

"When someone tries to hijack a thread I am involved with, I just refuse to engage with the inruding issue."
Keith
You introduced so called Labourt Antisemitsm to this thread - if that is not "hijacking" it my Jack's a kipper
Your hypocrisy, dishonesty and bigoted harte of everything that is not British, white and (your twisted concept of) Christian has helped turn this forum into the battle ground it has become
You have made this forum a platform for your hate and intolerance and you have the nerve to expect to "win" something for your appalling, inhuman bahaviour"
I quite often disagree with people on this forum, but few sicken me as you do.
I am saddened that Dave chose to close the other thread the way he did yet chose to ignore your thread-drift

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 05:18 AM

Jim - let K**** have it - he deserves it..

I for many years respect you more than most other mudcatters, and have learned so much from you...

A problem is though, that you can sometimes come over like a wind up bulldozer in a china shop..

..and a small hardcore of far less respected folks know how to effectively wind you up all too easily,
which inevitably & predictably ends in closed down threads...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 05:19 AM

I did not ignore any thread drift, Jim. Thread drift caused the thread closure. I did ignore Keith and I suggest that you and any other sane person does the same. It is the only way to treat his nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:00 AM

Not going to argue with you Dave other than to point out that Keith's invented Lanbour antisemitism had become an established part of the Russian thread long before you closed it.
I feel that ignoring people like Keith hasn't worked - neither has my combative behaviour towards him - he has no self-respect, is immune to both argument and insult
When somebody as extreme as him continues to use this forum for some of the most extreme ideas I have ever encountered, rather thah punishing us all by closing threads - he needs to be warned officially and if that does no good, be ejected -
He accuses us of being extremists - what sick **** defends an appalling act towards legal immigrants carried out bt a government who has been forced to apologies for those act half a dozen times - talk about being right-of-right
This forum is full of good, intelligent people who it is possible to disagree with without having "liar", "extremist", "Jew-Hater"... and all the other shit that is used to stifle humanity
It is not the threads that need to be removed but the posters who use them as platforms for hate
Some of the views expressed by Keith and a few others have contravened British laws - mainly under the "incitement to hatred" guidlines
If I contravene the rules of this forum I expect to be reprimanded and ejected
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:02 AM

Sorry posted before I'd finished
If BNP trolls can be ejected, why not those who continue to carry their message
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:03 AM

I think that it is absolutely valid for a member of this forum to privately ask a moderator to look at a thread with a view to closing it down. I think I might have done that twice (maybe three times, my memory gets dimmer...). As far as I can make out there are just three moderators here, who have a massive job overseeing the plethora of threads above and below the line. I don't get on well with a couple of them but they all have my sympathy and I can't blame them for sometimes not visiting the hate-fest threads very often. So I can't see anything wrong with drawing their attention every now and then, my personal criterion for that not being thread drift per se (though threads that drift from something else into antisemitism are doomed) but when they turn into open day for terminal personal nastiness. As I'm sure Dave will agree, (and considering that I've recently been excoriated for "getting the Gaza thread closed"), it's unfair to accuse ordinary forum members of closing threads. We actually have no say. The mods have a job to do in maintaining at least a minimum level of civil ethos and we could help. You're not a cry-baby or a loser for doing that. Refusing to engage with vexatious posters whose motive is anything other than proper discussion is a good start. A bit more humour thrown in can also help to defuse situations. But then we're up against that notorious American sense of humour... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:48 AM

Dave,
Ignore the troll. I have already stated why the thread was closed.

Come off it Dave.
No-one would contact a mod and ask for a thread to be closed just because of thread drift.
I am shocked that you found a mod who would accommodate you.

You just did not like the views being expressed, but had no reply
so you got the thread shut down instead.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:50 AM

I don't mind a bit of thread drift here and there at all, Jim. I am up for most of it. But when it becomes obvious that the thread is being deliberately derailed to create a platform for someone else's prejudices it is about time to put a stop to it. There is not much chance of the management censuring or banning anyone for all but the most heinous actions. If you want to get someone reprimanded or ejected, take it up with the moderation team. If you can make a strong enough case I am sure they will be sympathetic. In the meanwhile I am doing the best I can by ignoring the excesses of some posters and trying to remove their platform when possible in the best way I can. Please feel free to try your way.

OK. More serious stuff. this is PFRs thread and he is, understandably, most dis-chuffed about his pies and pasties being removed. So, back to the real point.

Best meat and potato pie - Carrs of Bolton
Best pork pie - Chamleys of Steeton
Best will do at a pinch and can be got in a supermarket - Hollands meat pies.

Over to you...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:50 AM

And carry on ignoring the troll :-)

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:52 AM

PFR,
When somebody as extreme as him

My views are moderate and mainstream.
I have never expressed an extreme view, but you are part of a group with extreme Left-wing views who because of your number and beligerance dominate all political discourse here.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 06:55 AM

"with a view to closing it down."
I'm not sure it's wise to do so Steve
I think it's fair enough to ask moderators to discipline those who
abuse threads bu closing asking for a thread to be closed seems like cutting your own nose off
We really should be adult enough to moderate our own behaviour without "running to Sir or Miss" to do it for us
There are actually a set of conditions connected to membership of this forum - they are sensible and, I believe achievable if we use our common sense
Most posters are fairly moderate in their views - there are very few actual extremists, but the few there are are the ones who show no interest in what others have to say - they tend to stick out like a wen on a willie
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:02 AM

The problem is, Jim, is that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You, I and many others agree about about the antics of a certain set of posters. They see our antics as equally reprehensible. The moderation team are caught between a rock and a hard place and you cannot expect them to take sides in an argument. The schoolyard has often been used as a description of these spats and it can be extended to here. We are the kids and the moderators are the teachers. If a fight breaks out they are not interested who started it or who is in the right. They must stop it and the only way to do that quickly and fairly is to remove all the combatants.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:08 AM

Recent examples of moderate, mainstream views.
On the Skripal incident, my view was the same as every liberal, democratic country in the world.
Yours was only held by Putin's Russia.

On the Douma incident, my view was that of all parties here, including your party, including your party's Shadow Foreign Secretary.
Yours were extreme and only held by the regimes of Assad and Putin.

On Labour anti-Semitism, my views are the same as those of the Labour leadership, while yours are only held by extreme factions within the party.

My views are mainstream and moderate.
The views of the vociferous axis of PFR, Steve, Rag, Dave and Jim are extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:12 AM

"On the Skripal incident, my view was the same as every liberal, democratic country in the world.
Yours was only held by Putin's Russia."
Take your lost arguments elsewhere Keith - you've had your chance to argue your case and you blew it
It is little wonder people hold you in contempt
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:17 AM

Take your lost arguments elsewhere Keith - you've had your chance to argue your case and you blew it

I did not. The threads were closed at the request of those trying but failing to make their case stand.
My case was that of the civilised world.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:45 AM

Jim, don't respond. He get's off on it. Let him live in his little Walter Mitty world of believing he has 'won' something.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:49 AM

Well, I was certainly right about Marc Wadsworth, now expelled from Labour for his anti-Semitism.

Steve was certainly wrong,
"Marc Wadsworth has been a prominent Labour campaigner for equal rights and against all forms of discrimination for decades, including fighting antisemitism, that he didn't know that Smeeth was a Jew and that Smeeth put on a deliberate act of histrionics, including fake tears, at the launch."

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 07:54 AM

Sonnet 03/11/07                      MLXV

To absent friends and lost loves let us drink,
Recalling smiles and times that all once shared.
On those no longer near let us now think,
To bring back reasons that for them we cared.
Some are not here, yet still remain, within
The songs and words they left behind. And some
Are in our souls, when hopes or dreams begin:
A part of what each of us have become.
To those apart let us now raise a glass
And take a moment to give thanks for all
That we from others have ourselves received.
The world’s a school, and our lives just a class
In playing well with others. Can we call
It more? Are we by our egos deceived?

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:06 AM

Has the title of thi thread now changed to Labour Antisemitism
Missed that one
I think my point has been made for me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:27 AM

This feller is now running rough-shod over this forum and posting what he wants
I do hope that those who are happy to approach moderators are doing something about him
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:35 AM

It has all been tried, Jim. Ignoring is the only option left. Feel free to try your hand with the moderation team or Max himself but I think you will be disappointed.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:37 AM

K**** is needy...

He needs us as much as we don't need him...

He even imagines I say things to which he can respond to, to carry on the struggle inside his own fantasies...
he must be hearing voices

It's a conversation occurring only in a world inside his own head...

"PFR,
When somebody as extreme as him

My views are moderate and mainstream.
I have never expressed an extreme view, but you are part of a group with extreme Left-wing views who because of your number and beligerance dominate all political discourse here."

Don't know what you think I said, but IT WASNT ME


what a silly little willy... He must think he is on a god given crusade against evil...

We just think he has gone a bit daft...

No pies for K***** until he has earned them... not even a custard pie...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:41 AM

What were you saying about pies and pasties anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:49 AM

Right
It's a free for all - no thread is safe from this team of antisemitic, racist hate mongers
Please don't ever tell me I'm off-topic again and don't tell me how to handle Keith
He's a racist, fascist, antisemitic scumbag and he manages to sabotage everything he touches
While he is allowed to behave as he does there is no future for any discussion he chooses to pollute
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 08:53 AM

Jim, No one is telling you how to do anything. I was just relating that in my experience, and that of a few others, talking through rather than with the perpetrators of thread ruination seems to work.

Whatever works best for you is fine by me but if threads do get closed it will be no surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:00 AM

I sympathise Jim, because I reckon I'm the most annoying of all the Thread Drifters. I do think though that a bit of diversion can defuse a rather volatile atmosphere.
The analogy of playground fights and teachers reminded me of my days on playground duty. I couldn't have ignored the spats, sent the children elsewhere or banned them permanently from the school. I sometimes did try diversion tactics. (Initiate a new game or give one or two a wee 'job' to do for example)
But the folk on here are NOT children, and could surely moderate their remarks and state their views without becoming abusive, belligerent and insulting.
(By the way, please don't leave Mudcat, as I've enjoyed participating on threads with you and would miss you)

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:10 AM

Thread drift is no issue at all, Sen. It is derailing the thread to become about someone else's pet peeve that is the issue. It happens all to often and needs to be stopped but, as Steve says, the moderators stay away from the toxic UK politics threads and will only intervene by request or when things get too shitty.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:12 AM

A gem here I have just picked up .

While still a back bencher Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn backed calls for an inquiry into the influence of "pro-Israel lobbying groups" on government policy in relation to funding to the Conservative party by Poju Zabludowicz a London-based billionaire the Chairman and main funder of the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM). described by Paul Usiskin, chairman of Peace Now UK, who organized the participation of the "Zionists for Peace" as "an agency that promotes Israel right or wrong"

If anyone wants to make this thread about Corbyn rather than about PFR's missing pies then this is a good start. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:13 AM

"I sympathise Jim, because I reckon I'm the most annoying of all the Thread Drifters."
No you're not Sen - I disagree with you occasionally but most of the time I find your gently humanity a breath of fresh air amid the rancour
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM

PFR, sorry. It was Jim not you who made that false statement about me.
He has also just accused me of being racist, fascist and anti-Semitic.

He is very good at making false accusations, but can never produce quotes to support them.
He just lies because he has nothing else to offer.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:27 AM

"He is very good at making false accusations, but can never produce quotes to support them."
Don't need "proof" Keith - I just quote you

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:37 AM

I've said it before, I'll say it again - DON'T. FEED. THE. TROLL.
There's nothing an attention-seeker hates more than being ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:52 AM

Who said that...?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:54 AM

When it comes to accurately chronicalling the movement of society in the now, it is important to see the creep of hate as well as the hope for cosmopolitan multicultural respect.
imo
The same people who urged the use of torture during the W days are for deportations, walls and guns everywhere.

Have opinions or ideas changed? Well we have inched toward talking about mind change. We see how data tactics changed minds that would most likely be changed by a deluge of trolls and bots.

Minds can be changed but the majority have not fully accepted certain facts. Trust and gratitude must first be restored. A hope of fairness is at long last emerging for women.

The good ol boy system is being dismantled brick by brick, but even the greatest optimist can see the growing cancer of fascism, populism, identity politics and tribalism.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:57 AM

"Who said that...?"

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 10:14 AM

I'm back off the bog... did I miss much... anything else get deleted...

Dtg - sooo.. the pie scandal - Piegate...

Nothing much to it really.. just a bit of the usual good humoured self indulgent daftness..
merely a storm in a pie dish...

So.. another insomnia night.. about 5am I took one final look at mudcat before putting the bins out and going back to bed to try to get some kip...

That's when I noticed your Russia thread closed. No big deal, I was surprised it hadn't been shut down much earlier.
But I couldn't see my last post. It was inocuous to my mind so couldn't see why it might be deleted, and nothing important if it had.
But in my half awake state, what bugged me was the thought I could have accidently posted it to the wrong thread...
Cue me getting obsessed and frustreated checking multiple threads to see if I could find where I might have wrongly posted it...
Eventually I found my safety copy, confirming it had been posted to the Russia thread...
By then, nearer 6.00am, I concluded it must have been deleted, and concocted this cheeky moaning protest thread.
Which I didn't expect to still see here when I emerged from bed at 8.30 to get the empty bins back in.......

What a dramatic life I lead...

For the record, here's the last 4 posts of the Russia thread,
and I really can't see any serious reason why 3 of 'em should have been deleted in a thread being closed to more contributions...???

"
Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: robomatic - PM
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 09:36 PM

The plot sickens. . .

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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 09:43 PM

We know, Jim. All decent, honest people (including Len McCluskey) know exactly what's going on. The thing is, the average Brit doesn't give a stuff about any of this. The Tories and their fellow-travellers in Labour (the twisted, outmoded ex-Blairites) have yet to realise it. Shades of the doomed SDP. Shades of that overgrown spoiled Tory schoolbrat who told us we had two days "to save the pound." Sure. He got trounced by Blair's 160 majority. They never learn, Jim. Let 'em carry on with their demonising. All they'll do is make Corbyn stronger.

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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 09:46 PM

Keep increasing your bitterness, robo. You're part of the problem, old son.

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Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 09:57 PM

I respect Corbyn's tolerant approach to his false maligners and attackers...

but I can't help wishing for some good old style working class bolshy fight back
in the upper reaches of labour party hierarchy...

But then, if I was on the Labour front bench I'd probably get so angry
I'd lob my packed lunch pies and pasties at the smug ****s on the other side of the house..."

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 10:52 AM

Thanks PFR. On to the usual distraction...

Good article on Antisemitism, Windrush and Racism

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 10:55 AM

"I'm back off the bog... d"
Thank you for sharing that!
I can't see why that particular thread was closed either, though I have been happy to see others close when they get out of hand
I'm debating whether to open a new thread on a controversial subject - if I do so I will appeal for an honest exchange of ideas without the abuse - let's see!!
It serves the purpose of our troll-tag-team for us to be at each others throats rather than address the points in hand - that is the only way they will ever "win" the prizes theyappear to seek
Keith is now beyond the Pale
"My case was that of the civilised world."
Responding to that level of megalomania can only damage the patient - how can someone so damaged as to believe himself to be the voice of the "civilised world." have anything to contribute to any discussion - "God's voices" next stop
Baccy is right - he usually is
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 11:01 AM

Jim - how does mudcat do moderated permathreads, or maybe I imagine they exist...????

Would you fancy being a mod of your own thread if admin could facilitate it for you/us...???

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 11:33 AM

Jim,
"My case was that of the civilised world."
Responding to that level of megalomania

Not megalomania, just pointing out that my views (on Israel, Syria, Salisbury, anti-Semitism etc.) are also those of all the liberal democracies of the world, and all our political parties here.

So, my views are just mainstream and moderate, while those who argue against me have extreme views not shared by the civilised world.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 11:44 AM

yeah 'civil wars'... how great to know wars can be civil under the caring eyes of the civilised world...!!!???


peace n love maaaaannn.. dood...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:19 PM

"Please don't ever tell me I'm off-topic again and don't tell me how to handle Keith
He's a racist, fascist, antisemitic scumbag and he manages to sabotage everything he touches
While he is allowed to behave as he does there is no future for any discussion he chooses to pollute..."

Unfortunately, Jim, saying that to or about him is precisely what feeds him. He loves it and he deliberately invites it. He likes to play the professional got-at victim and it takes priority over any desire on his part to discuss anything sensibly. It won't be long at this rate before it's just you and him with the occasional bit of spicing by Bruce and bobad. It really isn't worth it any more. Free country, of course. Just sayin'.


"Best meat and potato pie - Carrs of Bolton"

Outrageous flaming, Dave. Everybody knows that it's Greenhalgh's...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:24 PM

Well done, Jim. I look forward to the result of your experiment and, if I have anything to add to the thread, I shall post.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:33 PM

PFR, who told you that wars can be fought civilly?
Always horrific.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 01:35 PM

"I look forward to the result of your experiment"
Nice to see Keith is still claiming to speak for "the civilised world"
He really is off his meds, isn't he!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 01:37 PM

At least he does not state provable lies, as Jim Carroll has.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 01:44 PM

Prove them then Bruce - don't be shy
You may as go the whole hog and openly support this anti-semite rathen than staying silent about his antisemitism
You might ask me, for instance to put up his support for wartime fascism - (again) - easily done
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 01:52 PM

Proven in the other thread- you want them repeated here?

------------------------------------------------------------------
CARROLL:"The point of this exceptionally brave man's statement is that the UN (and the rest of the world) are staying silent about what was happening "

FACT: As usual, YOUR point can be proven to be false- The UN HAS spoken about this. Why lie when the truth is in YOUR favor?


"Geneva (AFP) - The UN rights chief on Friday urged Israeli forces to stop using excessive force against Palestinian protesters and called for troops who have committed abuses "to be held accountable."

"Every week, we witness instances of use of lethal force against unarmed demonstrators," the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein, said in a statement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Further lie on your part

CARROLL:"There is a strange blanket of silence in all this - no casualty figures since the beginning of the month says what needs to be said about internet balance "

FACT:"Forty-two Palestinians have been killed by Israeli fire since March 30, according to the UN. " FROM MY POSTED ARTICLE BY THE UN
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Proven lies by Jim Carroll, as stated.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 02:14 PM

Jim:
Pot. Kettle.
Let's see if you can keep the thread alive that you just started.

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 02:33 PM

"The UN HAS spoken about this."
Only today - tell me hoe long Israel has been killing demonstrators and how many are dead until the UN administered this slap on the wrist ?
Silence up to now no lies
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 02:55 PM

You mean "How many Palestinians have been killed by attacking the Israeli Border"?


"Since the mass protests began March 30, at least 40 Palestinians have been killed and more than 5,500 injured, according to the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs."

YOUR failure to actually LOOK before you post obvious lies is NOT my problem.

Here are some earlier - YOU claim "Silence up to now"

I claim that is another of your lies.




https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/31/middleeast/gaza-protests-un-intl/index.html

http://www.djournal.com/news/nation-world/the-latest-officials-say-palestinians-wounded-in-protest/article_3cff8c98-644a-54c5-b0

https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/04/1008362

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04/26/un-envoy-urges-action-to-prevent-gaza-escalation.html

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:06 PM

" "How many Palestinians have been killed by attacking the Israeli Border"
Nope - I meant how many unarmed protesters demanding their right to return home
No civilised society sends over a hundred snipers against unarmed demonstrators - even the British bobbies only have batons and shields on demonstrations
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:13 PM

You are vexatious at the best of times, Bruce, to say the least, but this newly-acquired affectation of yours of capitalising what you seem to think are words in need of emphasis just makes you look a complete tit. Reads like those "definitions of terms" you see in the reams of small print when you take out new travel insurance. Just meant as a friendly word in your shell-like, sort of thing... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:19 PM

No civilised society sends women and children out to trow rocks at border guards, while the men throw grenades and firebombs.

"The UN envoy urged Israel to calibrate its use of force and minimize the use of live fire, and called on Hamas – a Palestinian faction governing the enclave – and the leaders of the demonstrations to keep protestors away from the Gaza fence."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-hamas-cynically-sent-7-year-old-girl-to-breach-gaza-border/

GAZA - Israeli forces shot dead a Palestinian during protests along the border with Gaza on Friday, local health officials said, after hundreds of Gazans tried to cross into Israeli territory.

Protesters hurled explosives, including grenades and firebombs, and rocks at the fence in an attempt to set it on fire, according to the IDF Spokesperson's Unit.

The IDF maintains soldiers operated in accordance with the rules of engagement to thwart the "infiltration."

"IDF troops have used riot dispersal means and have fired in accordance with the rules of engagement. The IDF operates to protect Israeli civilians and will not allow the security infrastructure that protects [civilians] to be damaged."

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Israel-uses-tear-gas-on-Gaza-protesters-amid-UN-condemnation-552903

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:19 PM

OI..!!!

the Israel thread is in next room down the corridor...!!!!!

This thread is for moaning about who eat all the pies and pasties...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:21 PM

You won't stop him. He's flailing about everywhere today. Must have eaten a stale pork pie...

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:23 PM

Sorry, PFR,

I am here by invitation:

Subject: RE: BS: deleting thread - ok.. no big deal..but
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 01:44 PM

Prove them then Bruce - don't be shy