Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?

Subject: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 02:06 PM

This is actually music-related - I'd like to know what a short inscription in an Egyptian picture says. Image is here:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-5343-harp-player-worshiping-the-god-horus-the-ancient-egyptian-god-32267802.html

Anybody able to read that, or know someone who can?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: GUEST,Shaman
Date: 07 Aug 18 - 03:05 PM

Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam were the best of friends. One day, they were both killed. Larry the Lobster went to Heaven and Sam the Clam went to Hell. Larry the Lobster missed Sam the Clam so much, he asked Horus if he could go to Hell to visit Sam. Horus agreed, but he told Larry not to forget his harp.
Down to Hell went Larry. When he found Sam the Clam, he had his own Disco in hell. Larry the Lobster had such a great time with Sam the Clam, that he lost all track of time. Larry heard the voice of Horus saying "Larry you must come back to Heaven."
Larry ran as fast as he could back to Heaven. When Horus saw Larry, he said, "Where is your Harp?"
Larry replied, "I left my Harp in Sam Clam's Disco."

Nicked off tintnernet

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Aug 18 - 11:11 AM

Sorry I can't help, but thanks for the chance to study an interesting, ancient image. The harp is clearly a harp, yet so different, having itsa low strings closest to the harper.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 08 Aug 18 - 01:50 PM

It's a kind of harp known by names close to "cheng" right across Asia. I'm doing a talk about the 16th century Ottoman version, which like most chengs was held with the soundbox up.

The low strings are further away from the player, as with the normal Western harp. The major difference is the lack of a forepillar - all the stress is taken on one joint. In practice they seem just as reliable (and lighter) without the forepillar. The Turkish players Fikret Karakaya and Sirin Pancaroglu have a few CDs and videos with the revived Ottoman cheng. It's roughly comparable to the Scottish clarsach in its capabilities.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Aug 18 - 02:11 PM

If you're on Twitter ask the Roman historian Mary Beard (@wmarybeard) if she can, and if she can't, if she'd be so kind as to retweet to Egyptologists.
All I know about hieroglyphics is that they're a mixture of ideographs and phonetic symbols, so the symbol for the word for 'cat' is the sounds for miaou with a cat ideograph as a signifier at the end. Or something like that. But that's how we know that the ancient Egyptian word for cat was pronounced 'meow'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 09 Aug 18 - 10:48 AM

Can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?

Facetiously: An Egyptologist!

Unfacetiously: Have you considered emailing the image to, say, the British Museum or similar?

If you get a reply from someone, I'd love to know the translation! :-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Aug 18 - 02:59 PM

For self starters

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 12:47 PM

Yes, I was wrong about the harp strings. The harp seems backwards because the most solid part is closer to the musician.

I've read a recent book about the deciphering. I recommend it to anybody who's interested in this topic.

Cracking the Egyptian Code: The Revolutionary Life of Jean-François Champollion

by Robinson, Andrew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 01:26 PM

Weel its been a lang time like....bit ah'll nae a go!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 04:26 PM

If it's similar to this one, it's an "ubi sunt":

https://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/harper-song.html

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 04:48 PM

"A six-column hieroglyph, painted against a yellow background, is placed above the figures. The column on the far left refers to Ra- Horakhty and reveals the identity of the god: "Ra-Horakhty, the great god, lord of the sky." The other five columns refer to the harpist. They contain the start of a hymn to the sun: "Adore Ra when he rises," followed by the title and name of the harpist: "the singer of Amun, lord of the thrones of the Two Lands [Egypt], who resides in Thebes, Djedkhonsuiuefank" as well as an offering formula."

from The Harpists Stele

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 06:00 PM

I wonder if this picture of Djedkhonsuiuefank is the earliest known portrait of a named musician?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 18 - 08:17 PM

try some of the larger universities. Right after I graduated, University of Cincinnati hired an archaeologist who taught hieroglyph. Harvard, University of Chicago (the Suq Institute) would be good places to start.

I taught myself hieroglyph, many years ago, but have forgotten how to read it. Funny that the Cairo Times is no longer in that language....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 12:57 AM

I wrote to my friend Hamuda in Luxor. Maybe he will have an answer.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Monique
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 02:32 AM

I also wrote to my sister, her b-i-l is an Egyptologist (in Luxor too, ha ha!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 05:30 AM

There is a French site with a translation
(! NB this is the Google translation of the French site)

column ....
1: Words spoken by Re-Horakhty, great god, master of heaven
2: Adoration of Re when he gets up 
3: by the singer of Amon (lord) of the thrones of the Two Lands 
4: in the heart of Thebes, Djedkhonsouioufânkh 
5: Just of voice, just of voice, near Sokar-Osiris 
6: That he gives invocatory offerings of provisions 

http://hieroglyphes.over-blog.com/article-25800112.html 

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Monique
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 05:47 AM

The translation is accurate. "Djedkhonsouioufânkh" = "Khonsou said : 'he's alive' ".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: GUEST,Shaman
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:13 AM

On the back wall the 'eye of Horus' appears. You can google this to find more about it. Horus is the god who often appears with the head of a falcon.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Monique
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 06:16 AM

My sister's b-i-l wrote that the translation given by the site Freddy linked to is rather good so what reads below is very similar to what reads in Freddy's post.

Left column, in front of the god:
1. Words to be spoken by Rê-Horakhty, great god, master of heaven

Officiating priest Djedkhonsouiouefânkh's columns:
2. Adoration of Re when he gets up
3. by the singer of Amon (lord) of the throne of the Two Lands,
4. who resides in Thebes, Djedkhonsou-
5. iouefânkh, just of voice, just of voice near/to Sokar-
6. Osiris. May he give offerings and food.

If my English translation needs improvement, here is what he actually wrote:
Colonne de gauche, devant le dieu :
1. Paroles à dire par Rê-Horakhty, grand dieu, maître du ciel

Colonnes de l'officiant Djedkhonsouiouefânkh :
2. Adorer Rê lorsqu'il se lève
3. par le chanteur d'Amon (maître) du trône du Double-Pays,
4. qui réside à Thèbes, Djedkhonsou-
5. iouefânkh, juste de voix, juste de voix auprès de Sokar-
6. Osiris. Puisse-t-il accorder des offrandes et de la nourriture.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 11:20 PM

Looks like Mick is the one who first came up with the answer from the Louvre Website. My nephew, who has been studying Egyptian languages, sent the same link.
Well done, Mick.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 12:09 AM

The Harp as a Cosmic Symbol | Rudhyar Archival Project | Musical ...
https://khaldea.com/rudhyar/harpsymbol.html
HERE

Michael Levy - Composer for Lyre | Ancient Music - Recreated! | Home
https://www.ancientlyre.com
HERE

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 12:19 AM

https://michaellevy.bandcamp.com/album/the-ancient-egyptian-harp

Interesting

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: can anybody read Egyptian hieroglyphics?
From: leeneia
Date: 14 Aug 18 - 05:54 PM

Thanks for the link. I listened.