England's Favourite Folk Song

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Jun 19 - 05:02 PM

Too right, Tim! Ask me tomorrow or the next day, and I'll come up with a different song each day! May depend who has sung what just before me, or something in the news has just triggered a particular song.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: RTim
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 06:51 PM

I've been involved with English Folk Song since the 1960's and have sung many songs over time - and hopefully will continue to do so - But I DO NOT have a Favourite song...too many too varied.....How can you expect someone to pick one ???????

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 06:43 PM

..."and he drove the fastest milk-cart in the West"?
It's on an ancient "Children's Favourites" CD which gets played to death in my car when driving the grandchildren around. BUT
Flo (aged 5) always asks for "that cup of tea song" = "Right said Fred".
Lewis (aged 7) prefers Morecambe and Wise with "Boom ha ya-ta-ta-ta"!

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 03:09 PM

it's Ernie, innit?

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 02:57 PM

Wild Rover dates back to the 17th century and has a preservation order on it. As it has outlived most of our revered edifices and icons I think it should have a little more respect.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 02:30 PM

VJ - I am back in Manchester (about 20 years on from the above poem visit) but have not yet gone back to Rawtenstall, so did a websearch, which shows the ski slope is still there - link

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Mo the caller
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 08:20 AM

Well there were reasons behind the nicknames - Poachers because of the song, other nicknames explained here

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 06:06 AM

Interesting Rawtenstall poem, Walkabout. Is the ski slope still there?


Big Al: When I was a kid there was a division of the English army, nicknamed The Poachers.

Off topic, but the British give themselves strange names that the younger generation find hard to believe:
https://youtu.be/BgZTtjPltOI

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: JHW
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 05:23 AM

Difficult enough to decide my own favourite never mind that of the nation. Wild Mountain Thyme used to close very many FCs back when. Popular though may not mean favourite.
Wild Rover got a mention - of which someone once said "Maybe some of these old folk songs should be towed to Hartlepool and broken up for scrap".

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 06:24 PM

"British Hymn" - I assumed it DID mean "God Save the Queen".
Can't be "Jerusalem" at that only mentions England.
"Rule Britannia" even?

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 02:44 PM

what about 'Don't play marbles with father's glass eye, he needs it to look for work....'

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 02:35 PM

Me, I'd go for "The Rawtenstall Annual Fair" (which is a music hall song) (VJ).

First I'd heard of that, but I once made a day trip on a Lancashire steam train and wrote this poem on "Rawtenstall"

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Brian Peters
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 12:48 PM

I suspect you'd get completely blank looks from an awful lot of people. Of those who understand the concept at all, the older generation might go for something like 'Lincolnshire Poacher', and baby boomers for 'Streets of London'. 'Dirty Old Town' would get a fair bit of recognition, but many people assume it's Irish. People old enough to remember S&G and The Graduate might name 'Scarborough Fair'. And then there are all those First World War and Music Hall songs that quite a few people seem to remember.

It really depends on whether you're talking about 'popular with folk music fans' or 'popular with the general public'.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 12:05 PM

The House Carpenter (aka Demon Lover) and The Blacksmith are probably my favorites.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 11:54 AM

Big Grin :-D

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Brimbacombe
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 11:33 AM

They should put it to a public vote at 8.30pm on a Saturday night on BBC1. Purely for the Mudcat entertainment factor when Ed Sheeran songs take positions one to 10.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 10:37 AM

MacColl has a couple that could score well. Dirty Old Town and Manchester Rambler are both pretty popular even among a non folk audience.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:56 AM

Still not clear what the 'British Hymn' refers to. Can't be 'God Save the King/Queen' as no-one knows its lyric, only the first verse. There are folk who were brownies or cubs in the 1970s or earlier who may know the third verse, but hardly anyone knows verse two (confound their politics, frustrate their knavish tricks", etc.). Possibly Leadbelly means Blake's Jerusalem? But neither are folk songs.

Me, I'd go for "The Rawtenstall Annual Fair" (which is a music hall song).

Or "The Lincolnshire Poacher".

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 08:32 AM

I remember asking my Dad what was the tune the Irish guards were playing. He said, I dunno - but I've marched to it hundreds of times.

After about two minutes, he said - I know -its Ballyjamesduff, I've remembered!

Strangely enough it was a song I was singing most mights in Irish theme pubs, and I hadn't recognised it, disguised as a march.

I love the march - The Irish march, Stpatrick's Day march that Henry Fonda dances with Judy Garland too in Fort Apache.

Afterwards Henry does a great polka to Oh Them Golden Slippers!

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Kenny B
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 07:13 AM

Re Songs as marches
Most of the old "county" infantry regimental marches are based on popular (Folk?) songs from their part of the country converted to march time where appropriate eg Blaydon Races, Farmers Boy, Sussex by the Sea and possibly subsequently converted to dance tunes by all genres of dance enthusiasts

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 06:43 AM

Never thought of it as a marching song, Al, but it does work well. Reminded me of our version as kids which was, of course, rude.

'tis my delight of a nightly shite any old time of year

:D tG

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 11:21 PM

When I was a kid there was a division of the English army, nicknamed The Poachers.

The Poachers were given the freedom om of Boston where I lived and marched through the centre of Boston with bayonets fixed, whilst their band played The Lincolnshire Poacher.

Very stirring.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 04:27 PM

I'd like to hear that, Jerry; when I lived in Newcastle Upon Tyne a few years ago and went to one of his gigs, Jez Lowe used a cittern on a couple of his songs.

As you may know, the Portuguese, when the accompany fado songs, tend to use both a Spanish and a Portuguese guitar.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 04:10 PM

I do play the cittern as well, but nobody ever asks me what it is, so maybe you’re right. Unless people just think it’s a 12 string guitar with an odd shaped body, and a couple of strings missing.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Kenny
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 12:09 PM

None of my business, really, but I do agree with Dave the Gnome's nomination of Maggie Holland's "Place Called England" above.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 10:33 AM

Who is England and how many on here are second guessing his favourite song?

Mind you, this must be an English thread. The homophobic nonsense above followed by approval of it by the American moderators. Same old same old.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 09:39 AM

Jerry - the greatest comeback since Lazarus was Jesus but, a couple of centuries ago apparently, there was an English cittern in nearly every tavern and barber shop in England...

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 09:12 AM

One of my favourites is "Twas on on April Morning" but not sure that it would make the top ten!

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Peter Cripps
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 06:19 AM

We started playing 'Michael Finnigan' a few months ago for our care home audiences, and have been amazed at the response - everyone seems to know it, join in, and great applause and laughter!

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 05:41 AM

The audience’s favourites will always be different from the performer’s favourites. What are the most requested songs you get asked for? When playing guitar, I typically get asked for The Wild Rover or Streets of London, when playing banjo (even tenor banjo) it’s Duelling Banjos, and when playing mandolin it’s usually “what is that instrument called, mate, is it a banjo?” Steve Knightley’s song Roots sums it up well, and ought to be the performer’s favourite.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 04:27 AM

Maggie Holland's "A place called England" must be worth a nomination!

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 04:07 AM

Yes, TB, Country Life.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Allan Conn
Date: 23 Jun 19 - 04:06 AM

"Not saying I agree with those definitions, just that they may exclude that song."

If a prog on England's Favourite Folk Song was to follow the same line as the Irish programme then it wouldn't really matter if the song was relatively recently written and or still in copyright. Just about half of the Irish shortlist fell into that category - neither would it really matter if it wasn't English. The obvious example from the Irish list being Bogle's song. To be fair the programme didn't state it was the favourite "Irish song" but Ireland's favourite folk song - hence it encompasses songs which are popular in the country but doesn't specifically exclude non Irish songs.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 08:05 PM

Ooooooohhhhhhhhh, I like to rise when the sun she rises.........

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 04:12 PM

Young Emma

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 03:28 PM

??Peggy Seeger is American so doesn't sing about milking cows- only southerners (UK) do that

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Greg Stephens
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 03:18 PM

Wild Mountain Thyme was written (or re-written) by Scottish poetRobert Tannahil in the 19th century to a much older tune "The Braes of Balquidder". The recent version we all know was put together by the McPeake family in northern Ireland. Or so they say. No connection with England till the 60's folk boom.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 03:04 PM

Wild mountain thyme is not English. Nor is it a folk song by some people's definitions. It was written recently and is still in copyright. Not saying I agree with those definitions, just that they may exclude that song.

Walkabout. WTF has AIDS got to do with anything?

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 02:42 PM

Wiuld Mountain Thyme. Also known as' Will ye go lassie go'

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 02:39 PM

'Wild Mountain time' would get my vote. Heard it sung in many a UK Folk club and at Folk gatherings in peoples houses it is sung, where all join in.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 02:36 PM

Oh dear, Dave: I wonder how many people Freddie Mercury gave AIDS to before dying of it with his bohemian rhapsodies? Brian May should finally see the light, get himself an English cittern, and start turning up at English folk festivals and clubs.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 02:30 PM

Bohemian Rhapsody!

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 05:37 AM

Steve Knightley's "Tall Ships" is from the soft South. Just saying...

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 05:31 AM

I'm not sure if Peggy Seeger has ever milked cows, Patriot, but "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" by Ewan MacColl.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: David W
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 05:27 AM

Henrup

You may find this interesting, it's a quite comprehensive history of the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2c3nSXKb6E

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 05:18 AM

I presume the "English Hymn" is the one where the first verse is entirely rhetorical questions to which the answer is no...

And did those feet in ancient times walk upon England's mountains green? No...

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 05:07 AM

After the last pointed poke at the Londoncentric BBC, let's have a north/south folksong argument- the north is full of songs about industry and real people.
The soft south is all about milkmaids walking out on May mornings & such nonsense- how's that for a start

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 03:45 AM

Barbara Allen is in my repertoire but I also love hearing "The Snows They Melt the Soonest", from the north of England, as used in the BBC's adaptation of Thomas Hardy's "Tess of the D'Urbervilles", based in the south of England.

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 02:10 AM

Quintessential English folk song ' Barbara Allen ' no contest.

Dave H

Subject: RE: England's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 22 Jun 19 - 02:08 AM

The OP holds Bedlam Boys in affection.

From Wikipedia; "Tom o' Bedlam" is the name of an anonymous poem in the "mad song" genre, written in the voice of a homeless "Bedlamite." The poem was probably composed at the beginning of the 17th century. The original ballad was popular enough that another poem was written in reply, "Mad Maudlin's Search for Her Tom of Bedlam". It was apparently first published in 1720 by Thomas d'Urfey in his Wit and Mirth, or Pills to Purge Melancholy. "Maudlin" was a form of Mary Magdalene.

Dave Moran writes; Nic [Jones] and I and mandolin/guitar player Nigel Patterson made up the Halliard. We were looking to develop some new music and we took the advice of song-writer Leslie Shepard. We decided to add tunes to Broadsides that we discovered, uncovered or collected – we checked out the Harkness Collection at Preston and the collections in Manchester etc. We also used Ashton's Street Ballads and Victorian Street Ballads (Henderson) and on a couple of occasions we dipped into Thomas d'Urfey's Pills to Purge Melancholy. That is where we found Mad Maudlin (Tom of Bedlam or the Boys of Bedlam).

Nic and I wrote all the tunes together usually sitting in the front of the Mini and singing and working out tunes as we drove – as the mandolin was the smallest instrument and Nigel was in the back, he always played the tunes. 'Jones and Moran' wrote a heap of songs like this including Lancashire Lads, Going for a Soldier Jenny, Miles Weatherhill, Calico Printer's Clerk etc. We wrote the tunes to fit the words and sometimes added or altered words, as in The Workhouse Boy. So Nic and I wrote the tune to d'Urfey's words of Mad Maudlin – audiences were confused and stunned – it was very surreal...We did a booking in the Midlands and an unaccompanied foursome called the Farriers loved the song and asked if they could sing it unaccompanied. We said, Sure – they were very good, a bit like the Young Tradition. I believe that is how it got into the mainstream.