Glastonbury

Subject: Review: Glastonbury
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Jun 19 - 05:10 PM

For UK viewers the TV coverage seems pretty comprehensive. Between that, Queen's Club tennis and Women's World Cup football, there's not much else on TV (UK).
Is It my age, or why don't I recognise anyone at Glastonbury, except maybe snarly chops Liam Gallagher (and even then, only because my son was into Oasis!) I had to look at my Radio Times (another age indicator?) to see who that wumman was, on for ages: Janet Jackson.
So, my Mudcat friends, who do you recommend at Glastonbury (on this year's list) and who would you like to have seen/see in the future there?

Subject: RE: Review: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 19 - 05:34 PM

I'd have mainly English folk acts, with some guests from other nations.

Subject: RE: Review: Glastonbury
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Jun 19 - 06:04 PM

I see that Dervish are on, but wonder if they'll make the TV coverage? Will see them in Stonehaven at their Folk Festival anyway.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 03:41 AM

Saw Foals last night and enjoyed that though they are a relatively new act in the scheme of things. For acts who have been around the block.Not seen the set by The Killers yet but will catch it and I believe Pet Shop Boys guest with them. Want to catch Sheryl Crow and also Lauren Hill. And The Cure are on tonight. I have seen them live but must have been about 39 or so years ago.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Acorn4
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 04:56 AM

The Killers put on a good show but is there really any need to expand a three and a half minute pop song to 20 minutes?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Johnny J
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 05:16 AM

Janet Jackson has been around for a long time, TB. :-))

In the early days, Glastonbury was far more "cutting edge" and "alternative" for want of a better description. I'm sure there's still lots of good music there on the smaller stages but the event is just too big these days to interest me although I've never actally been.

I've got to the age where I actually prefer less choice at a festival. Sometimes it's better just to have one or two concerts happening at any one time albeit that there may still be an opportunity to attend several of them over a weekend. Of course, we still need variety but it's still possible to book several artists for such events and there are enough good musicians, singers, and bands that they don't all need to be back every year either.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Johnny J
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 05:18 AM

It's not just rock festivals either. When I have to navigate The Edinburgh Fringe programme, I lose the will to live and Celtic Connections has also become too "bloated" compared to the early days too.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 05:43 AM

Re the age indicator. Thinking Janet Jackson is a newish act is an enormous age indicator. She had her first UK hit about 35 years ago and hasn't had one for about 17 years. Folk approaching retirement are probably better placed to recognise Janet Jackson than any youngster ??

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 10:05 AM

No, I wasn't thinking that at all, Allan and Johnny J.
Of course I knew that she was one of The Jacksons from way back, once I'd found the name in the RT, and of course I'd heard of her. I just didn't recognise her: but I don't think I ever paid much attention to The Jacksons back in those far-off days!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 10:17 AM

Btw, just looked up "The Jacksons" and Janet Jackson: she was the youngest and not in the original 5! Wasn't born until 1966. The whole late 70s/80s/90s pop scene is pretty much not on my radar!
And I'm well past retirement now too.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 10:36 AM

"The Killers put on a good show but is there really any need to expand a three and a half minute pop song to 20 minutes?"

Guess you wouldn't be a fan of Led Zeppelin then.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 11:54 AM

Where are the top pop groups like Herman's Hermits and Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich...???

That's what us younger mudcatters want to see...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 11:54 AM

I used to live in Glastonbury, and even then the festival (or "Pilton" as the locals call it - Worthy Farm is in Pilton) never held much attraction to me since the end of the 1970s - it all seemed a bit dull. There have been good local acts, I suppose, but I think that if you want to have the Glastonbury experience then all you need to do is to stand, fully clothed, in the shower listening to (BBC) Radio 2. You'll save yourself a fortune. IMHO.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 12:03 PM

I remember in the late 70s...

Notices on shop and cafe doors & windows stating "NO HIPPIES"...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 01:30 PM

Ee, those were the days - slightly more bigoted than it is now but with decent music. Even if the more celebrated revelled in the bigotry (Bowie's pro-fascism Playboy interview, Clapton's drunken racist rant).

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 01:45 PM

It wasn't too many years after I saw those notices in Glastonbury,
that local business's cottoned onto how much money
the posh trust fund hippies could spend in the town...

Millfield's not too far from Glasto...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 02:05 PM

Dead right. I first walked Wainwright's Coast to Coast in the mid-1970s soon after its publication, and noticed the newly-erected "Keep Out" signs in farmers' fields. When I walked it again 20 years ago I was struck by how many of these signs were replaced by invitations to stay for bed and breakfast, use their camping barns and buy their ice cream.

Similarly, a number of Pilton farms become car parks for the weekend.

And Millfield pupils discard their caps, blouses and blazers and put on grunge gear...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 02:19 PM

Acoustic stage has been interesting. Pyramid stage does its duty.

Glastonbury overall hits it right with the target audience. Always has.

Mind you, when you are too old to be target, it’s you that has altered, not Glastonbury.

Brilliant celebration of music as ever. Not enough folk? Sure. Not enough {add genre} to suit all.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 02:37 PM

Modern England is a national disgrace:

When office teams go out for a meal they nearly always choose a foreign restaurant, rather than support the few locals who try to make a living with their own culture and food - i.e., home from home food, like you still find in France and Italy, e.g.

The huge majority of English fanatically support a World X1, call it a "Premier" League, then scratch their heads as to why we lose to nationalistic nations such as Croatia and Iceland.

The huge majority of English have been hyped into thinking American pop, rock and (c)rap are somehow above their own good English folk and classical music.

Etc.

My poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "Nationalism without Conquest"

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 19 - 02:40 PM

Far-right skinhead OI bands don't seem to get a fair representation
on the Glasto line up...???


[..that'll peeve at least one mudcatter...]

..and it looks like 'Britain First' Morrisey has just destroyed any chance he might have ever had of playing there...

I'd guess Johnny Marr is glad to be rid of him...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 04:30 AM

"Not enough folk?" Was there any ?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Acorn4
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 04:35 AM

Dervish apparently on Sunday but only a minor venue.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 04:47 AM

Glastonbury is a grand and superbly-managed cultural institution. We can all gripe about something or other to do with it but I prefer to applaud the organisers, especially Emily Eavis. And I could watch Miley and her dad all day long. Well Miley anyway. I'll save my griping for the next two weeks of Britain's professional losers playing a silly game in which grown people hit a furry ball at each other. Come on Tim.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 06:19 AM

>> Glastonbury overall hits it right with the target audience. Always has.

>> Mind you, when you are too old to be target, it’s you that has altered, not Glastonbury.

Fascinating. So someone who hasn't altered (i.e., the "target"), whom Glastonbury has "always hit right", is someone whose tastes encompassed Edgar Broughton (in the 70s), The Style Council (in the 80s), Tom Jones (in the 90s), Rolf Harris (in the noughties) and goes on to listen to Janet Jackson today?

And someone who is too old to be target is someone who found Hawkwind cool in 1970, but doesn't particularly like Kylie Minogue nowadays, and that's because they've let age catch up and are no longer "target"?

Crumbs. It must be all them leylines what keep 'em all inside the target.

Ah, the Isle of Avalon is truly a land of myths.

Glastonbury is indeed a grand and superbly-managed cultural institution (why does that sentence make me think of Groucho Marx?), but so is the state opening of parliament (although the latter is not run by decent, morally astute Methodists with a concern for the planet).

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 06:42 AM

Is it actually possible to not like Kylie much, Vincent? :-)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 08:26 AM

I'll quote myself from a week and a half old thread...

"Around 1976 or 77 our band of mates took a drive to Glasto
and found a free festival in a field with a band set up on a flat bed lorry..
There wasn't much of an audience.
But there were a few nudey hippy girls walking freely about.
Including two 16 year olds who were our college friends and backing singers...

We were told that was Glastonbury Festival...

The next and only other time I went was I think 1982,
when it had become a colossal sprawling alternative tented city...
More a part of the upper classes organised summer season events calendar
than a free spontaneous hippy happening..."


We'll catch up on a few of the glasto music downloads on BBC catchup
until the July Sumo Wrestling tournament starts next week
on NHK WORLD-JAPAN News channel and app...

..a half hour edited highlights show once a night for 15 days...
with a couple of early morning live shows chucked in as a free bonus...

We started watching it for a laugh and are now hooked..
An intensely exciting sport steeped in traditional Japanese culture...

Trouble is the mrs still loves boring middle class tennis...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 10:34 AM

>> Is it actually possible to not like Kylie much, Vincent? :-)

:)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Acorn4
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 01:31 PM

There's a post going around facebook at the moment :-"Survey reveals 75% of people who go to Glastonbury do so so that they can say they've been to Glastonbury" - not sure how true this is but one or two of the posts on here seem to hint that there might be a grain of truth there.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 01:59 PM

Walkaboutverse - Which acts would play at this “mainly English folk acts” festival? Can you name a few names? Aside from Morrissey?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 04:10 PM

Hi Jim - frankly, I have lost touch a bit the last few years and there are probably some good new acts that I am not aware of but, off the top of my head, The Unthanks; The Young'uns; are Bellowhead still going? Morris Dancers; that good squeeze box player who worked with Martin Carthy; Waterson-Carthy; Jim Causeley..will that do? Anyone care to add others?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 04:23 PM

Kate Rusby; Bella Hardy...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 04:24 PM

Walky - errrmmm.. Glasto is not a folk festival...!!!!!

Same as it is no longer accurate to call it a rock festival...

And it is almost 100% certain it will never be a British nationalist festival...

A certain bunch of political thugs tried all that with their own 'family friendly' nationalist folk festival
about a decade ago...

Yes not the most memorable music event ever...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 04:30 PM

Glastonbury is in England, PFR, so should be a festival of primarily English culture - with some guest musicians from other nations including America.

If you visited the USA, PFR, would you expect to see an English folk festival? So why should we have a festival of primarily American pop, rock, and rap?

Clog dancers...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 05:35 PM

Walky - you're welcome to put your case to the Eavis family, for what their festival should be...

https://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/contact-us/

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 19 - 06:19 PM

Will do, PFR, thanks.

Joe/all: Is it okay to put a link to this thread (https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=166340&messages=34) in for their team to copy/paste to browser? They allow 500 characters.

I'll come back to it tomorrow evening...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 07:34 AM

Walky - after you bend Glasto to your will,
next have a go at telling WOMAD how wrong they are doing that sort of unpatriotic thing on British soil...


btw.. the first WOMAD at Shepton Mallet 1982 was the best, most joyous, and last big UK festival I've ever been to...
Though nearly 40 years later I now see the 2019 festival is promoting exclusive glamping areas for the rich poshos...

I've never actually liked huge festivals that much,
I prefer free community celebration fests..
There were loads of really good ones for the 15 years I lived in London.
..and for 10 years since I moved back home to the west country,
the Burnham on Sea free folk fest was the highlight of our summer
Shame that's gone RIP though...
Compare and contrast that kind of low key fun local experience
at one of the least loved lowest ranked UK seaside resorts,
to bloated over hyped nearby mythical Glastonbury....
or very middle class inaccessible for public transport Priddy folk festival...

Mind, it helped having a relative near Burnham who provided a free spare bedroom for the festival weekend...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 12:40 PM

You'll have to scratch that Martin Carthy from the bill,I read somewhere on Mudcat he had Irish heritage. Can't have that on dear ol' Blighty soil, eh?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 02:28 PM

You have misunderstood me - having majored in anthropology and travelled through about 40 countries, I doubt anybody loves our world being multicultural more than me and, thus, I like the idea of WOMAD celebrating our world's many forms of music, arts and dance, and would love to attend such a festival HERE.

But where I differ from the status quo here is in a strong belief that our own good English culture should remain a part of our multicultural United Nations and, thus, am anti-globalisation/Americanisation.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 02:47 PM

They've found a body in a tent.

Sorry, but murder at a pop festival has been done before (Peter Robinson, Piece if my Heart). But that was in Yorkshire.

Is there a crime writer who specializes in the area around Glastonbury?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 02:48 PM

Walky - I'm happy to accept you are a good guy at heart..

But the stuff you write here certainly does not discourage bad guys
who do believe in the kind of hard nationalism,
that you are perhaps naively promoting...???

Your words can easily be taken too literally as their kind of propaganda..

That's why I, and others, take the p1ss...
.. banter between mudcat mates.....

If you don't want folks to think you are a wrong kind of nationalist,
maybe try not to sound so much like one...???

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 03:02 PM

But where I differ from the status quo here is in a strong belief that our own good English culture should remain a part of our multicultural United Nations

I can't think of anyone on here who doesn't think that! Can you give us any examples of this alleged "status quo" that believes our own culture should be lost?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 03:13 PM

I think a lot in England now are going through life not knowing how good and enjoyable English folk among our other traditions can be.

I questioned someone who spoke with an English accent then sung with an American/"mid-Atlantic" accent and they were not even aware of doing so.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 05:20 PM

As PFR said Glasto is not a folk festival anyway. Even if it was though there is nothing wrong with welcoming music from all over the world. It does not affect you celebrating your own culture and roots and indeed even the connections between your own culture and the likes of Americana. Why the negativity?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 05:51 PM

It's gone from one extreme to another here in England, Allan:

100 years ago, English lording it over every other culture to, nowadays, preferring every other culture to our own - cuisine, music, etc - as I said above. That IS a negative.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 19 - 05:58 PM

And, when people lose their own culture, society suffers; or in verse - "People Lose"

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 01:36 AM

So, no examples then, Walkaboutverse? I am aware of one English person on here who sometimes sings in an American accent. I don't like it but it is hardly rife in the folk world, let alone on here. As to preferring every other culture to our own - Pifle! I like world music, culture and cuisine. I like European music, culture and cuisine. I like English music, culture and cuisine. It is not an either/or situation. We have the wonderful situation that we can enjoy the best of all worlds. If you seriously believe that something is better just because it is English, then you are what is referred to as a supremacist and I feel sorry for you.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 02:30 AM

One of my slight gripes about this site is that there is so rarely anything about music which is not from, or derived from, the British Isles. There is a fantastic amount of traditional music from Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, even Australia, and we never discuss it, apart from the occasional post from Kerboxeru. Alan Lomax understood this, he collected traditional music from all over the world.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 03:39 AM

Our greatest cultural figures have always thrived on interaction with other cultures. Shakespeare wrote a lot about Italy, and almost certainly spent time there. Turner studied at the Louvre and spent a lot of time in Venice. Elgar visited Leipzig and wished to study there, but couldn't afford it. Handel was an immigrant from Germany. Culture is always about interaction.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 02:21 PM

"If you seriously believe that something is better just because it is English, then you are what is referred to as a supremacist and I feel sorry for you."...you yourself, Dave, would admit that is ridiculous if you had read my life's work.

For a start, I repatriated out of support for Aboriginal Land Rights - I hate imperialism whether it is Roman, German, American or English; I love our world/our United Nations being multicultural and want English culture in England to remain a part of that.

When I visited Barcelona last year and Rome this year, I didn't have any English food; rather, in Barcelona, I enjoyed a nice vegetable paella and a glass of sangria, with a performance of flamenco - there are MANY places in Spain where one can have such an experience but how many in England where one can have a nice roast, and a gin and tonic whilst watching Morris or clog dancing? I rest my case.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 02:22 PM

Still no examples Walkabouts Verse? I am curious to find out from you (or anyone) what "English cusine" might be.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 02:43 PM

Walky - no.. pick your case back up again...

It's all very well telling us your life story now,
but the comments you made here in isolation beforehand
sounded decidedly dodgy,
like real hardcore xenophobe nationalist rhetoric...

You need to communicate with us far more effectively than you have been,
if you believe you are not what you have been making yourself appear to be...!!!
You can't have your cake and eat it...

No matter how nice Mr Kipling might be,
and remember even he makes french fancies and battenberg has cross cultural origins...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 04:14 PM

English cuisine:

The full English; Sunday/any-day roast; fish and chips; bangers and mash; stottie stuffed with chips; scouse; panhaggerty; Lancashire hot-pot or, in my case, vegetable potages - "One-Pot Cooking"

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 04:33 PM

Fish and chips - introduced to the UK by Jewish immigrants from Spain and Portugal. Scouse or Lobscouse - from North Germany and the Baltic region. Roast meats are universal and go back to the origin of fire. Roast beef and horseradish sauce is great, horseradish of course originates in south eastern Europe.

Your favourite food seems to be very cholesterol rich. Apart from one pot dishes which can me almost anything. I like the ones in the Levi Roots book, plenty of Caribbean flavours.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 05:17 PM

Are you from Lancashire, WaV? If not, what right have you got to be hot-potting?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 19 - 05:28 PM

I was born (the day we won the FIFA World Cup) in Saint Mary's Hospital, Manchester, Jim.

I was away from this part of the world for a long time but feel I know it quite well and wrote a song called "Lancashire Sung Simply"

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 02:49 AM

Sorry Walkaboutverse but we are not talking about whether you support other cultures or not. You made two distinct accusations

1. That the status quo on here (Mudcat presumably)is that English culture should be lost and
2. That the English prefer anyone elses culture to their own.

I refute both those claims and have asked you to give examples of either. To date you have failed to do so and until you do, your claims are unsubstantiated.

As to there are MANY places in Spain where one can have such an experience but how many in England where one can have a nice roast, and a gin and tonic whilst watching Morris or clog dancing? - How many is Spain? How many are put on just for tourists? (Yes I have seen such). I can take you to any number of pubs to watch Morris dancing (possibly Moorish in origin) and have a Gin (developed from the Dutch Jenever) and tonic (from India). Many will also do Sunday roasts alongside many of the other foods that are now part of English culture. I have not read many of your poems as they are not really my thing but I can tell you need to clarify your arguments and be prepared to back them up if challenged.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:07 PM

Firstly, I got this from the Glastonbury team after using the link given by PFR, above: Thanks for your feedback, which we will pass on to our bookers.

By "here" I mean't English culture in England being lost.

I gave an example already re office dos, above; and shall add that our weekend cookery programmes present much more foreign than local dishes - Rick Stein is a lot better than most saying something like, when he visits other lands, why can't we have home from home food on our high streets.

And with the last point you have jogged my memory, thanks, Dave - God's speed to you all, Morris and sword dancers do turn up at pubs but we don't have the regular shows I referred to in Spain of which, believe you me, there are many in Barcelona alone - and so what if they aim at tourists? Why should visitors to our nation be looking for a needle in a haystack when it comes to our traditions?

(PS: sods law - the one time I didn't copy my words just in case the Submission fails, it did and I had to retype this...being full of the milk of human kindness as I am.)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:39 PM

Seriously is it really detrimental to anyone that we are able to enjoy cuisine from across the globe? The very idea is absurd and just because someone enjoys oriental food etc it doesn't mean they don't like a good carvery too. No-one is forcing you to eat foreign and you have no influence over what other folks eat. Quite rightly!!! And what is English anyway?? Surely that changes and adaptswith time. Balti cooking is an English cuisine now associated with the Midlands. Likewise Grime music is just one modern English genre.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:42 PM

And that's the very problem - at the moment, here, most would agree with Allan but not so, of course, just a few decades ago.

God knows, things do NOT always change for the better.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:56 PM

That "Foreign" food, as you call it, is as English as Morris dancing, Gin and Tonic! I still refute your claims that most people believe that English culture should be lost and that the English prefer anyone elses culture to their own. Nothing you have said proved those claims.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:59 PM

Oh, a question before I forget again. Are you at all involved in Morris dance or traditional plays?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 02:01 PM

It's too hot today, my bathroom is infested with flying ants..
and I've no more patience for willfully unreasonable blinkered thinkers...

.. just saying...

Walky - You have painted yourself into a corner here.
Your written statements don't correspond too well with the progressive persona
you want us to see you as...???

YOU are out of synch with a modern diverse UK..
however you try to rationalise it to yourself, and us...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 02:04 PM

I didn't say this, Dave "most people believe that English culture should be lost"... but it is being lost.

And no - but I'm glad you are involved, Dave. I have participated at festivals and clubs with folk tunes and songs, though, and I do have a club foot that swells up and pangs more these days.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 03:39 PM

I no longer dance as I am not up to it. I play for a local side and perform in 2 traditional plays.

You say you did not say "most people believe that English culture should be lost" but you did say

But where I differ from the status quo here is in a strong belief that our own good English culture should remain a part of our multicultural United Nations

If by status quo you mean most people and you differ from most people because you believe English culture should remain then the only conclusion I can draw is that you think that most people do not believe that English culture should remain. It is that I first pulled you up on that. You went on to say that most English people "prefer every other culture to our own". I do not believe either statement is true and you have said nothing to convince anyone otherwise.

I am happy to accept this is not what you meant if you tell us what you really meant to say.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:10 PM

Too many here nowadays do, sadly, Dave:

They do prefer a foreign restaurant, such as going out "for an Indian."

They do spend their money and time on American pop, rock, rap, and country rather than their own good English music.

The do fanatically support a world eleven, call it a premier league, then scratch their heads as to why we lose to smaller nationalistic nations like Croatia and Iceland. Many fans now actively prefer their club to have foreign players to locals - as long as they win.

They do prefer line dancing to clog and Morris (although, I accept the former is not as popular here as about a decade ago, thankfully).

It is not that our culture is not as enjoyable or interesting, it is just that people have been led to believe that.

The huge crowds as Glastonbury could just as well be enjoying singing the chorus of one of our fine folk songs.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:22 PM

"And that is the very problem" the fact that modern English culture includes the taste of food created by folks from an ethnic minority background is not a problem. It simply adds to and enriches the fabric of the culture. And sorry I know in my youth many older folk used to baulk at the idea of eating 'foreign muck' but that was due to them not being introduced to it.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:25 PM

And sorry but the suggestion that just a few decades ago English folk didn't listen to foreign music is silly. Think Beethoven, Mozart, louis Armstrong, Glen Miller, etc etc etc

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:31 PM

...or much more pride in their own culture and cuisine, Allan.

Traditions exist where locals are impressed by how their own forebears did things.

And, as I have said but feel the need to repeat, I love trying foreign foods IN FOREIGN LANDS, as part of the enjoyment of being among other people and their culture for a while/a break.

That IS the best way forward for humanity - appreciating other cultures including your own, and visiting (not emigrating or conquering) other lands, within the United Nations, as a respectful tourist.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:35 PM

Folk music and tradition is, always has been and always will be a minority interest Walkaboutverse. If you think that even to top names in folk can compete with Liam Gallagher, The Cure or Kylie, you are fooling no one but yourself. There are plenty of folk festivals, why would you want to turn Glastonbury into another one?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:42 PM

But if given a test in musicianship many folkies may well beat "Liam Gallagher, The Cure or Kylie," Dave - it's what I just said: our culture (and its performers) are not inferior, it is just that people have been led to believe that.

The ocean is made of many drops, and we CAN win this "war".

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:58 PM

No, folk performers are not inferior. Nor are the mainstream performers. They are just different. For the record, there is some folk music at Glastonbury. There is some Pop at Whitby. Long may that situation last.

It's not a war. It's many different sets of tastes living in harmony and not doing each other any harm. The only antagonism I am seeing is from you I'm afraid:-(

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:01 PM

BTW. If you are in Manchester, what on earth are you doing posting on here? You should be out listening to "bells for peace" to mark the start of the international festival!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:09 PM

"CAN win this "war"."

Walky - now you have PROVEN to me you are the kind of nationalist you pretend not to be...

You have dropped into place on my identification chart..
YOU are talking the kind of modified nationalism that goes along these lines..

"I'm not a racist, I love the diversity of races and other cultures..
As long as they stay in their own countries and don't come here..."...

Gotcha...!!!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:12 PM

Anyone remember that thread where, eventually, there was a consensus of sorts that England's national musical instrument was the bell?

Just did a quick search to no avail but here is my list (adapted after that thread) of English Dances & Instruments

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:21 PM

PFR - yes, I support land rights and don't like economic/CAPITALIST immigration nor conquest and imperialism; I do support genuine asylum seekers being helped to their NEAREST (in terms of culture as well as distance) safe nation.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:56 PM

Walky - you can you can dress it up in theory as much as you like,
but in effect you are no different to the kind of nationalists
you claim you are not...

Some of us are prepared to give you benefit of the doubt,
but you are making yourself look at the very least contradictory and confused...

I believe you are not a white supremacist, their sort are a nasty minority.
But your liking for other races and cultures,
has not stopped you falling in a trap of supporting the most reactionary kind of purist nationalism.
your words also inadvertently agree with, support, and propagate such obvious crude prejudices...

Seriously think about what you are writing here in public...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 06:17 PM

I AM a nationalist, PFR - so was Gandhi, e.g.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 06:41 PM

Then stop wasting our time and patience with your xenophobic nonsense...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 06:42 PM

btw.. that admission was hardly a big unexpected dramatic reveal deserving of the Eastender's
dramatic drum roll...

For what it's worth, I was treading carefully and being more tolerant in case you have 'problems'...???

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 07:35 PM

He writes like a 93-year-old little Englander. Then I find out that he was born on the day I was watching England winning the World Cup on a black and white telly that the Victor Value shop manager out of the goodness of his heart had hired.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 02:23 AM

Englands national instrument the only one as I understand it that was invented in England is the English concertina.Dave te gnome, folk music is not always a minority interest in Ire land for example it is mainstream, your perspective applies to England, Ironic because WAV is the one who is often accused of being a little englander. Dave i am sure you are not a little englander ,but you made a comment based on england and its folk music as if it was a world wide fact

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 02:32 AM

Goodness, so now we will be saying that people in foreign countries shouldn't be putting on performances of Shakespeare, if foreigners want to see Shakespeare they have to come to England (nor even Britain) to see it.

The bit about food is utterly bonkers. Influences from all around the world have greatly enhanced British cusine. If we were reduced to eating the kind of chloresterol enhanced meals that Walkabouts lists, life would be very dull. Also short as we would be dying of heart attacks in our 40s.

As for comparing yourself with Gandhi, thats your very own Dan Quayle moment.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 02:55 AM

your perspective applies to England

Of course it does Dick. We are talking about Glastonbury. Which as far as I am aware is in England. As it happens, I am half Polish but that does not stop me from enjoying English culture and music. As to Ireland, I cannot say as I do not know but I just looked at the current Irish top 10 and I don't recognise any traditional folk songs there.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 03:23 AM

>> Shakespeare wrote a lot about Italy, and almost certainly spent time there.

He almost certainly didn't, according to the Shakespeare scholars I know (one of whom I am married to). This supposed intimacy with Italy is used by those people who believe that a bankrupt glover's son who went to grammar school would be incapable of writing the plays, and that someone from a posher background (often one similar to the people making this accusation) was the playwright.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 04:59 AM

It seems that the one performer this year who has caught the English public imagination more than all the others put together is Stormzy.

So let's hear it for his kind of English music, if it has the intended effect.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 10:14 AM

Funnily enough, Jack, I have often thought that Rap can be a type of Folk. Not the "Gangsta" stuff or the obscene or misogynistic stuff but there is a good section that tells real stories of ordinary folk living often hard lives. Not heard Stormzy so I dunno what section he falls in. Must have a listen some time.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 10:42 AM

folk, blues, punk, rap, etc.. have always served the same purpose
for downtrodden disaffected sub cultures & communities..
It's only the old blinkered [predominately white middle class...???] folk snobs
who refuse to accept reality...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 02:20 PM

A reminder that folk music has long being linked to nationalism - in the early part of last century, when classical musicians were keen to give a nod to nationalism, they often turned to folk music.

Positive nationalism is definitely good for humanity.

And I'm not deluding myself re Gandhi - I am well aware that, in terms of popularity and umph, I am very different.

When he repatriated from African to Asia and began asking Europeans to repatriate to Europe (using non-violent non-cooperation and education), the majority of his people loved him for it and pushed him into leadership.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 03:15 PM

Having established your position on the political spectrum,
now to consider where you belong on any other spectrums...???

Are you for real..
or a lefty comedian's caricature
of the stereotypical xenphobic nationalist fanatic...???

Are we being secretly recorded for BBC3 comedy special...!!!???

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 03:20 PM

I'd say I'm a proper "lefty" PFR - I don't like capitalism AND I don't like economic/CAPITALIST immigration.

My poem on "Immigration's Left and Right"

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 04:50 PM

Please don't drag the memory of Gandhi into this sordid, petty little feud.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 05:03 PM

I don't remember much about him at all..
I only ever saw the first Lord of the Rings movie,
and that was nearly 20 years ago...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Cj
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 02:08 PM

When will people realise that the past is the past? The world has moved on. Communication and travel have moved on. It is no longer the war of the roses, or England Vs Napoleon, or North vs South. These people searching for their future in a rose tinted past are scared children. Grow up!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 02:20 PM

I find English copying American culture childish, CJ.

And it is not just music, of course: "You know what? I'm like so Americanised I copy everything they do; cause they like so get it - yeeha!"

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Cj
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 03:15 PM

It's not a copy, it's an exchange. For they "copy" as much from us as we them. And why not? We're more similar than different. Hiding in caves is for cavemen.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 03:25 PM

Cj - give up now, there's no point trying to explain
the reciprocal evolutionary nature of cultural exchange to him..

He's unashamedly an Edwardian gentleman lost adrift in the future...

Maybe, one day he'll manage to fix his time machine for the return trip back home...

Until then he remains here as a curiosity - a living museum exhibit...


Now to find an alive T.Rex...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 03:33 PM

I've just realised. Walkaboutverse has admitted to being a nationalist and a socialist. I'm sure there is a phrase for that but I can't quite put my finger on it :-)

PFR. T-Rex live in in their music!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 03:43 PM

Yes I know..
.. and I'm one of those besotted daft sods
who bought the recent latest bottom of the barrel scraping box set of Marc Bolan's home demos...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 03:52 PM

Not quite, Dave - I'd say positive nationalist and a "regulationist"; my poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "Global Regulationism"

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 03:58 PM

... and to link all this random bollox together in as contived a way as possible...

"6 surprising facts about the first-ever Glastonbury''

[last minute replacement headline acts..]

..goes all the way back to very first festival when The Kinks
(as well as Wayne Fontana, the other act listed on the flyer) were no-shows.
They were replaced by Marc Bolan’s Tyrannosaurus Rex."...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 04:00 PM

Sorry WAV. You said you are a 'lefty' (socialist) and a nationalist. It only means one thing to me.

Oh, 100!!!!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 04:05 PM

102 - I bet PFR wouldn't jump in your grave that quick, Dave!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 04:25 PM

eh...??? I wouldn't jump in anyone's grave...

Is that another Olde English tradition you are fond of...???
Something like cheese chasing down hill, or bog snorkeling...

Anyway.. 100 counts become made meaningless by mods tidying up a thread...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 04:30 PM

aha... looks like I got 100 at 03:58 PM

not that I'm one to boast....

BUT IT WAS ME THAT GOT 100...!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 04:34 PM

As I've said, I don't like imperialism but maybe we can all agree one good thing from British imperialism in south Asia was putting an end to sati, where a Hindu widow would sacrifice herself by sitting atop her deceased husband's funeral pyre.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 04:53 PM

Another good thing was bringing curry to Britain so it is now one of our best loved national dishes...

There's no denying the Victorians achieved some great things,
even if not always for the best, most progressive, or humanitarian reasons...

It also got rid of a lot of annoying god botherers from our island,
when they eagerly buggered off to become missionaries
and target practice for their new congregations...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 04:55 PM

How about a wife sacrificing herself by sitting atop of her husband's piles?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 06:01 PM

Anyone ever started a thread, then wished they hadn't? Suppose I should have predicted which way it would go. Now I've commented again it won't disappear as quickly as it might have.
Haemorrhoids to the lot of you!
Good night (if you can!)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 06:21 PM

Commiserations TB but I enjoy watching UK lefties beat themselves up.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 07:18 PM

Stan - what...!!!???


If we beat each other up, you're sat there beating yourself off...???

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 10:11 PM

punkfolkrocker wrote: Stan - what...!!!???


If we beat each other up, you're sat there beating yourself off...???

Once again the UK Left charm offensive gets it slightly wrong.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 10:54 PM

Stan - slightly wrong..??

Sorry it's late.. I'd completely forgot the tory penchant for doing it with
oranges in their mouths, plastic bags over their heads, and belts or electrical wiring tight around their necks...

Again apologies, this should be less wrong now.. eh...???

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jul 19 - 10:58 PM

..and to tie this in with Glastonbury,
oranges are a popular refreshing fruity snack with festival goers...

What they do with the oranges later in the privacy of their own tents is entirely up to them.
well... a lot of the glasto crowd now are public school educated...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 06:41 AM

Interesting to note the largest ever crowd to attend was estimated to have been 300,000 for The Levellers - a British folk-rock band.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 07:28 AM

The Levellers had a very loyal fan base.
Lots of my mates in the South West were into them.
[.. ah... memories of crusties and Swampy the mole man protestor..]
We saw them at a festival in Budapest just over 20 years ago,
and the mrs became an immediate CD buying fan..
The local band 3 Daft Monkeys have since followed on and catered to the same new age hippy audience..

Are the Levellers still going in some form...???

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 02:20 PM

God knows, all those centuries and decades on, we could do with some levelling - and English citterns at Glastonbury.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 04:28 PM

I remember a couple of decades back this guy saying to me (I was wearing a suit at the time as I was working) that he could never be like me as I was quite cool and ok but "oppressed by wearing a uniform". I suggested he was wearing a uniform too which he scoffed at but then I guessed his favourite band were The Levellers. Because he was not an individual as he claimed to be but was dressed in the typical new age hippy gear. Saying that I like the Levellers but didn't take to someone judging folk by their working clothes ??

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: GUEST,Cj
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 04:52 PM

That's it, Allan. Dressing down is pretty similar to dressing up.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 06:01 PM

My daughter is the Levellers' number one fan. She goes to all their Westcountry gigs and I can assure you that they are still going.