Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?

Subject: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 08:14 AM

Does anyone know of any vernacular (ie non-church) Yuletide repertoire from these stalwart Northern counties?

I grew up with pub carolling in Wigan in the 80s/90s, but it's long since faded there; I never encountered it through over a decade in London.

In recent years I've returned North (Hebden Bridge) and would love to try and kick-start something here.

The Peak District tradition is obviously a big inspiration, but to make this work properly I need to find songs that fit our own location, on the contested border.

Does anyone know of any songs from Lancashire (ideally East) or Yorkshire (West is best) that could fit the bill?

Current source material obviously includes the Watersons, and the Valley Folk from Bury.

Many thanks in advance!

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 08:17 AM

PS apologies for posting about Christmas in September... I figure it makes sense to start early, if this has a chance to work.

It's not without psychic pain - I flinched upon seeing fresh mince pies on the front display in Manchester Morrisons last week!

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 08:40 AM

Do ab internet search for ' Sheffield Carols ' you'll get a result.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 08:55 AM

Cheers Dave - I'm trying to look beyond Sheffield/Derbyshire if possible, though I have quite a lot I can raid there if needed.

Apart from anything else, this is a Christmas staple in our house:
https://folkways.si.edu/english-village-carols-traditional-christmas-carolling-from-the-southern-pennines/celtic-holiday-world/music/album/smithsonian

And this is a great resource:
http://www.villagecarols.org.uk

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:06 PM

There are quite a few of the "Sheffield" carols that are also known in Lancashire, or even originate there. Look up James Leach of Rochdale and his compositions. Others such as Shaw lane and Malin Bridge were played in the brass and also concertina bands.

Robin

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:23 PM

Get hold of Nick Dow. Now resident in East Lance and running a monthly do in Hebden Bridge. Nick is a great source for all things traditional. He pops in here from time to time.

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:22 PM

Contact Peter bearon. He should be able to advise on a Lancashire repertoire.
Derek

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 02:57 AM

Yes, I should have mentioned Peter. He does a carol big sing in West Houghton every year, including the West Houghton carol.

Also Jean Seymour, leader of the Larks of Dean Quire, who can direct you to the relevant items from the Larks of Dean manuscripts.

Robin

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 03:06 PM

By "West Houghton" do you mean Cow Yed*?

I ask 'cos me mum lives in Walkden (aka Wogdin) and I'd like to attend this - sounds interesting.

*Something to do with a farmer, his livestock and a five-barred gate.

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 05:54 PM

I should have put "Westhoughton", one word.

The last couple of years it has been at:-

The Beer School
88 Market Street
Westhoughton
Bolton
BL5 3AZ

Held in a microbrewery that opens its doors specially for the night, on a Tuesday night in December, I have it down as the 10th this year.

Robin

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 07:01 PM

Many thanks all - I've found a contact for Jean online - does anyone know the best ways to reach Peter Bearon or Nick? Neither seems to be on Facebook or Twitter.

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 07:02 PM

PS I fully agree with the point about the Peak District repertoire not being confined to the area - one of my faves from Wigan pub carolling in childhood is the 'Sweet Chiming Bells' variant of 'While Shepherds Watched'

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 02:55 PM

Quite a few While Shepherds Watched tunes employed in Carolling some 20 plus I believe ~ including Ilkley Moor Bah'at

Ray

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 03:18 PM

Oneaccord.eu will find Peter.

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 12:46 PM

Thanks caterpillar man, sounds like a sound gig.

Meanwhile, I'll nip by the Beer School shop tomorrow for some ale - I usually get Holt's Humdinger when I'm in town but I'll give 'em a go.

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 02:13 PM

http://www.folkandhoney.co.uk/all-our-uk-gigs/nick-dow-a3753/

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 01:36 PM

Hail the Auspicious Day; One Accord’s first CD launched in December 2005. Recorded live in Rivington Chapel, Lancashire and at Cock Robin Studios.
Sold out. One Accord may be finishing as a group, but we'll all be continuing with the Christmas ‘Big Sing’. Contact Peter Bearon; [e-mail]

8. Cunliffe Street; Version of ‘Angels from the Realms of Glory’. Tune from Maurice Hilton’s private manuscript. Sung until recently by Shevington Methodist Church. Possibly named after former Methodist Church in Cunliffe Street, Chorley.

13. Leigh Carol (Hark! Hark!); Another setting of 'Hark! Hark! What News'. Three of the five verses sung in Leigh, Lancashire. Three part harmony from manuscript of Joseph Stephenson, Clerk of Unitarian Church in Poole, Dorset (1775). The top and bottom lines are almost identical to a version sung in Leigh but the middle harmony is quite different. It is said in Leigh that this tune was written by Handel and given to the people of Leigh on his visit there in 1741.

14. The Westhoughton Carol; Tune composed in 1820 by James Winward, Cobbler from Wingates, Westhoughton, Lancashire. The words come from a much older and longer carol (The Black Decree). The final verse was added by Revd Hodges, vicar of Wingates up to 1875.

18. Roby Mill; This used to be sung by the carol singers from Roby Mill who went out throughout the night on New Year's Eve up until 1974. (Roby Mill lies between Wigan and Skelmersdale.)

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,Peter Bearon
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 11:46 AM

I'm not sure what the etiquette is here. Can I reply to something that is over three years old?

My name seems to be mentioned a few times in this thread, but I don't remember anyone contacting me at the time.

I'm interested in the original post that says there was pub carol singing in Wigan in the 80s/90s. I was undertaking research in the late 80s/ early 90s and never came across this.

So if the original poster 'BlackAcornUK' or anyone else knows where and when this happened I'd love to hear.

Peter Bearon
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 12:40 PM

Information and link given in MUDCAT thread "Any December Songs"

Recordings of the singing of carols in Yorkshire pubs and other public places    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=YORKSHIRE+CAROLS
Dungworth and the Sheffield carols    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNonVdwRT9A
Hidden Carols: A Christmas Singing Tradition in the English Pennines (Talk by Ian Russell )    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeH270_alTM

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,Peter Bearon
Date: 03 Jan 23 - 02:10 PM

Thanks Geoff. However, my query was referring specifically to the pub carol singing in Wigan in the 80s/90s which the original poster mentioned.

I'm pretty conversant with the South Yorkshire/Derbyshire traditions as I have been singing there since the early 80s (mainly at Ingbirchworth/Upper Denby). It was this that led me to research Lancashre carols.

Peter Bearon
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: cnd
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 11:08 AM

Black Acorn used to come around here somewhat frequently, but hasn't posted much in the last year or two. I believe this is their website (link) which can direct you to their Twitter (link) -- hopefully that helps direct you?

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 11:35 AM

If anyone is still looking for traditional carols from a bit further west than the Sheffield area, perhaps consider the repertoire of the Glen Rock Carolers whose tradition started with a few men who had come from around Micklehurst.

Subject: RE: Trad Xmas pub carols from Lancs/Yorks?
From: GUEST,Peter Bearon
Date: 04 Jan 23 - 03:18 PM

Thanks for the info cnd. That should help me track them down, although I don't do Twitter.