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Differences between harmonicas
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Subject: Differences between harmonicas From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Dec 19 - 02:14 PM I stopped in Guitar Center yesterday and spent some time looking at the harmonica display. It seemed that all the harmonicas are now priced at about $40 apiece now. I guess the last time I bought harmonicas was 20 years ago, and they were between $20 and $30 at the time - so maybe $40 isn't unreasonable now. I got my first harmonica in fifth grade in 1958, when I joined Sister John Bosco's harmonica band. It was a Hohner Marine Band harmonica, key of C, and I'm sure it cost less than five bucks. For years, I didn't know harmonicas came in any key other than C. At the time, I thought that my Marine Band was just an ordinary harmonica, but I've learned over the years that it is a highly respected instrument. I've also learned that Hohner has many different models of harmonica; but what I don't know, is what's different among the various models. The models I've heard most about are the Marine Band, the Special 20, and the Blues Band harmonicas. It appears that Blues Band harmonicas are cheaper ($50 for a set of 7), but what other differences are there between models of harmonica? -Joe- An interesting tour of Hohner models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVk9fe72-EA |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Dec 19 - 02:19 PM Here's a post from Steve Shaw that I didn't want to see lost in a 2000-message marathon thread. Thread #166789 Message #4022417 Posted By: Steve Shaw 06-Dec-19 - 04:52 AM Thread Name: The current state of folk music in UK Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
Belatedly, Al, but since you asked... |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 11 Dec 19 - 08:07 PM Cheers for that, Joe. I've been through hundreds of harmonicas in my time and I've made some really good buys and I've wasted a lot of money. There are a couple of things to remember. First, that harmonicas don't last too long. Your vintage 1950s f-hole Gibson or your 1667 Stradivarius may still be going strong but a blues harp, oft-played and hard-played, will be in its grave within a couple of years. Badly-played by a beginner, a couple of months or even weeks... You don't go louder by blasting with all your might down the holes of a harmonica, but you do wreck reeds. You go louder by huffing and puffing/inhaling/exhaling, and by learning how to use the whole of your airway, from diaphragm through bronchial passages, through buccal cavity (mouth) through hand cup then through good projection. That's what makes the tone and loudness and that's what makes your harps last. I've always looked for harps thst combine easy playability with longevity. The two brands that give me that are Lee Oskar and Suzuki (in the case of the latter either Bluesmasters or Promasters). I use both but I'm far more in love with the Suzukis. Some people wear by Seydels and Hohners. Not me. As for those venerable Marine Bands, well Woody and co didn't have much choice. They have a great, raunchy sound but their combs were made of swelling wood and it didn't take long for them to crash. If only all replacements were still five dollars...Theres a modern version with a beeswax-treated wood comb that reputedly won't swell. (hmmm...) It's called the Marine Band deluxe and it costs twice the money. I can't say I don't like mine, but even so... Caveat: I'm a bit out of date. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 11 Dec 19 - 08:27 PM And don't buy cheapos. Don't say you weren't warned! |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: John MacKenzie Date: 12 Dec 19 - 05:14 AM I now use Suzuki Promasters, which cost about £40 each in te UK, they are great, responsive, and even response is what you get for your money. I have a drawer full of Hohner harps, Echo vampers, Bluesmasters, tremolos, double sided and single sided, valved chromatics etc etc. I never play them any more. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Dec 19 - 05:50 AM Absolutely agree, John. A G Promaster goes with me everywhere even when I'm not expecting a harp-playing opportunity. And the Promasters and Bluesmasters have the same reedplates, which are replaceable. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: EBarnacle Date: 12 Dec 19 - 01:50 PM I opted for the Special 20s. They seemed to be high student / low professional and I've been very happy with them. I got almost a full set of major keys which seem to cover most of the songs that come up at the local sing-alongs. They have not disappointed me. I was keeping an eye on some of the web based stores and one of them ran a really good sale on the Special 20's. GC matched their price, so I got them right away at a discounted price. In the future if I need to replace one of them I may opt for one of the higher end harps to see if it makes a difference. Lady Hillary on E Barnacles account. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: GUEST Date: 12 Dec 19 - 03:39 PM I would say that the question 'what's the difference between models of harmonicas' is similar to 'what's the difference between guitars'. Very broad question (and one seemly well suited here). I'm no expert but I do like the Lee Oskar lineup and especially the alternate tuning models. I like the fact that he sells reed plates so when you wear out a a set of reeds, you don't have to chuck out the whole thing. Also a big Toots Thielemans so I have a couple of Hohner chromatic harps which I play just enough to understand how good people who really know how to play chromatic are. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Dec 19 - 06:59 PM Well yes, but you can also replace Suzuki reedplates (and Hohner MS plates for that matter). Replaceable reedplates doth not a great harmonica make. I appreciate the bombproof nature of Oskars but I find Oskars to be unloveable. I find Hohner MS harps to be unloveable, unreliable and not bombproof. The Suzuki harps tick all the right boxes. As for chromatics, well I possess a chrom in G and a chrom in D which both live most of their lives in my gig bag. I play traditional tunes from Ireland, Scotland and Northumberland and I hardly need chroms at all for those (I can always have a rest and leave the few chromatic tunes to the fiddles). Much depends on what you want your harps to do. For second-position blues you need blues harps. For folk music you need harps that can play both in second position, but, far more importantly, that play nicely in first (the key of the harp). That can be blues harps, but, if your harp is in G, you will have a missing note in the bottom octave (the sixth of the scale). You can fix this by tuning up the blow 3 note by a whole tone or by ordering a harp with that tuning, which is called Paddy Richter. Recommended. Or you can play tremolo harps. Great players in Ireland such as Noel Battle and Austin Berry play tremolos. Noel plays Tombo Bands only. I've been in touch with him a lot, and he's persuaded me that this is the correct approach! Beware of trems from Hohner which are, inexplicably, in blues harp tuning, with that missing note. Special 20s are lovely. I've relied on them hugely over the years. Hohner horrified me when they discontinued the SP20 in low D. I still have a couple and I treasure them. They are not bombproof, but careful handing makes them last and increases their loveability. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 14 Dec 19 - 06:54 PM I have played harmonica for 50 plus years... Horner Marine Band (various keys once 10 bucks now 50) and the ultimate chromatic once 40 now 200. Their Blues bend easy. HOWEVER, just for fun....or for introduction ...(we need to recruit / teach more, suck, blow, suck) folk....the "Dollar Store" provides a decent plastic harp that may lead to addiction....like a "snot rag use it once a trow away. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Dec 19 - 07:22 PM Well, "decent...." There's always that thing with any instrument to do with entry-level being totally shite and totally off-putting... Believe me, I've wasted a fortune discovering that cheap harmonicas are junk. I've tried everything, mate, and, without wishing to sound my own trumpet, I'm regarded as a bloke who knows what he's talking about... If you want to put kids off for life, buy them cheap $5 harmonicas. They are not in tune. You will find one or two reeds minimum not correctly aligned. They are not properly gapped for good response. They go flat in a heartbeat. You know that you have to pay several hundred for a good guitar, or violin, or mando. You know that you have to pay several tens for a decent recorder or whistle. But you think that five dollars is great for a harmonica. Well that's the "harmonica is a toy" syndrome. The tragic truth is that you can buy a brilliant harp for thirty quid/dollars. Yep, you have to train the novice how to not blow them out. But we either want decent harp players or we don't... |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Ernest Date: 16 Dec 19 - 10:49 AM When I started playing harmonicas in the 90s there was indeed one kind of cheap harmonica that was acceptable: didn`t last forever, but long enough and the sound was ok too. You still get the brand, but the instruments itself is the same as the other junk. Once in New Orleans I bought one that was so obviously crap that I had to buy it just as a "collectors item": a few pieces of tin crudely nailed to a piece of wood, about 3 reeds (of 10) creating well...sounds. In contrast to Steve Shaw I like the various kinds of Marine Bands (esp. the deluxe) and so far haven`t destroyed one (I think you can buy replace reedplates for them too). Recently Hohner introduced a model named "Rocket" which is similar to the Special 20 which is responsive and sightly louder than my special 20. I also like Seydels - they sell them in Paddy Richter tunings - and found their service department quick and helpful. As for tremoloes I occasionally play a double sided Hohner but forgot where and when I got it. No personal expieriences with Tombos but I remember John and Pip Murphy playing them so they should be good. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Dec 19 - 12:25 PM I have one MB Deluxe that was specially made for me. I do quite like it but I spent hours tweaking it to get good response. I haven't bought a Rocket because it costs a bomb. They brought it out after discontinuing the SP20 low D, a very sad day. I bought two Seydel Session Steels and neither of them survived the first session I took them to. A friend had exactly the same experience. You'll need that friendly service centre a lot. The double-sided Hohners are inexplicably in blues harp tuning, which means s a missing sixth in the bottom octave. And they're pinned together! |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: punkfolkrocker Date: 16 Dec 19 - 01:48 PM A year or two ago, Amazon were doing low price flash sales on various Hohner 'Blues' harmonicas... might be worth checking occasionally...??? |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: meself Date: 16 Dec 19 - 02:10 PM Steve, question for you, that you may have already answered: have you come across anything available that's comparable to the Special 20 low D? |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Gallus Moll Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:38 PM I know little about harmonicas /playing but - have you heard of Donald Black? He is an amazing self taught player from Benderloch, I think he copied his mother's accordion playing style as he learned the instrument. More than that, he designed (with Hohner?) a Scottish / Celtic mouth organ that is suitable for pipe tunes, Scottish traditional playing. (Hope I have these facts correct!) He has a number of albums available and can be found on youtube if you'd like to hear his playing style. Don't ask me to do blue clicky! |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:22 PM Donald was "discovered," playing in a pub, by Phil Cunningham, so the story goes. He's an aficionado of Hohner tremolo harps and he had a model specially made to his tuning, the Highlander, which enables him to play in bagpipe style. He's a good lad is Donald. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:27 PM Meself, tragically I haven't. Seydel make low harps but I'm no fan. Hohner brought out the Rocket, way beyond my price limit. I had several SP20 low Ds made for me by that superb technician Antony Dannecker, and I treat them like kid gloves these days. I'm hanging on to them for dear life. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:59 PM I have traveled the world with a deck of cards and a Horner Marine Band. To me they are my, "survival kit." I only use carry-on luggage. Once x-ray elicitated a comment....in today's world I have been frequently pulled out, questioned and searched. I am a frequent traveler but am very cheap and leverage one-way tickets from multiple ports. Sincerely, Gargoyle In 2020 I expect to let loose the money-pocket and invest 600 USD for a new chromatic, a blues harp and two standards...life is getting short. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:14 PM I've often travelled with a harmonica pouch in my bag that must have looked like an ammo magazine to an X-ray machine, but I've never been pulled up. I had difficulty at the Colosseum in Rome last year. After I'd queued in heat for two hours to get in, the scanner revealed the G harp in my bag. I had an almighty row with the security man ,who wasn't going to let me in. I told him that I'd play him a tune. He declined that offer, then, looking furtively around, he told me that "he hadn't seen it," that I could go in but on no account was I to play music. Great days! |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Jack Campin Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:31 AM I was asked to play the washboard going through Zadar airport (the only one I know of which has signs asking "how could we make our service more friendly?" - the screener was tickled by the idea and I don't think real concern came into it. I have often been stopped for Mathieu metal ocarinas on x-ray screens - they're much the same shape as a machine gun round. On the other hand I once transferred through Gatwick with a real 20mm machine gun shell in my coat pocket (from Sarajevo, with the cordite replaced with a ballpoint pen refill) and the screener didn't notice. I haven't been to many places other than airports that do screening. A concert hall in Istanbul asked me to play my electronic bagpipes. Which looked very much like a pipe bomb on the x-ray so you can see why. Isn't a harmonica rather easily identifiable? |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Dec 19 - 11:41 AM I've put a standard SP20 D on my wishlist on your recommendation, Steve. I know it was the low D you mentioned but hopefully the standard is just as good. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 17 Dec 19 - 12:45 PM I play mostly traditional tunes so I'm more often than not playing in first position (so, eg, on a D harp, a D tune has D as the tonic note of the scale of the harp as well as of the tune). That means that a standard D harp is very high-pitched. So if I'm playing Lord Inchiquin I'll use either a low D, a tremolo harp in D, a chromatic (never my numero uno choice), but never a standard D harp. Standard G and A harps are fine, and low Fs are available. C is high pitched but there's not much call for a C harp in most of what I play. Second, third and fourth positions are also used occasionally. Second would be, eg, an A tune (with flatted or absent seventh) played on a D harp, Mixolydian. Third would be minor-sounding Dorian, often "A minor" on a G harp. Fourth would be minor-sounding Aeolian mode, eg "E minor" on a G harp or "B minor" on a D harp. Twelfth is not unknown, often G on a D harp. Gillan's Apples is an example. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Dec 19 - 12:55 PM High pitched would suit outdoor Morris tunes fine. Plus I'll be playing along with a flute and, quite often, an accordion. If I need to go low I can do cross-row on my concertina but it does not carry well. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: meself Date: 17 Dec 19 - 01:54 PM Thanks for the reply, Steve. My last low-D has given up the ghost, I'm afraid. Unless I have another one that I cleverly hid away somewhere ..... I suppose I could give the Seydel a try ..... |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 17 Dec 19 - 02:10 PM For playing outdoors in competition with those instruments I wouldn't pick a Special 20. A Lee Oskar or Suzuki Bluesmaster would suit you better: a bit louder, a bit more resilient to hard playing. My Tombo Band tremolos are surprisingly loud and they are pretty tough. And they have all the notes. That would be my choice for your situation! |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Dec 19 - 02:20 PM The Suzuki Folk Master in G worked very well when my concertina was in dock. I shall take your advice about the D Bluesmaster but for the £20 it costs I may just get the SP20 as well :-) |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 17 Dec 19 - 03:58 PM I bought a job lot of Folkmasters years ago and still have a couple going strong. They were the only cheapie that I ever thought were worthwhile. Raunchy little things tho' tough to work on... |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: EBarnacle Date: 17 Dec 19 - 07:08 PM I find it interesting, given the relative complexity of the two instruments, that Hohner diatonic concertinas, with their greater ranges, only retail for about $300, compared to their harmonicas, which retail for about $50. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 17 Dec 19 - 08:08 PM Convertinas have bellows and buttons and stuff. A thirty-quid harmonica has mass-produced covers, a mass-produced comb and mass-produced reedplates. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: meself Date: 17 Dec 19 - 08:43 PM I second - or third - the endorsement of the Suzuki Folkmaster. I bought one twenty years or so ago; never used it much, but it will do in a harmonica-emergency. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Jack Campin Date: 18 Dec 19 - 05:27 AM Is the mass production the reason why harmonicas are indistinguishable? It's a pain for other players in a session - with whistles you can reason "that's the medium-sized purple one, he's in F" but with harmonicas all little chrome oblongs are alike. Do they cut corners so far that even painting a letter to name the key is too expensive an extra? |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Ernest Date: 18 Dec 19 - 05:34 AM |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Dec 19 - 06:25 AM Most harmonicas do have the key stamped on them somewhere, Jack. Colours are not good because they come off in your mouth. Grabbing the right one can be problematic in a darkened pub, admittedly. Another issue is that the harassed harmonica player often picks up the harp the wrong way round, thereby uttering an inappropriate ugly squeal instead of soothing harmonious lyricism. And I've deliberately left myself open there for your next quip... ;-) I line mine up in front of me so that I know what's what. At least the bigger tremolos and chroms do look different to the little jobbies. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Dec 19 - 06:27 AM And I've frequently been known to shout out what key I'm in out of one corner of the mouth. It's a skill worth acquiring. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Jack Campin Date: 18 Dec 19 - 07:05 AM Iain Grant would use a trick which I think came from the trad jazz world - he'd hold fingers up or point them down with the number of sharps or flats in the key signature, e.g. three up was A and two down was B flat. A refinement was to wiggle them from side to side to indicate he was in the relative minor. It's more usual nowadays for players to just shout out "Arse", "Bollocks", "Cock", "Dogshit", ... Mozart would probably have done that. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Gallus Moll Date: 18 Dec 19 - 02:55 PM I was mildly wondering what the plural of harmonica actually was (being as how I did Latin at school) and discovered that if I was (still) a Latin speaker it would, as I wondered, be - H harmonicae. Tho for everyone else - harmonicas. |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Jack Campin Date: 18 Dec 19 - 03:45 PM Perhaps it already is plural. Each reed is a harmonicum (neuter singular). |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Dec 19 - 04:52 PM Bellum bellum bellum, belli bello bello. bella bella bella, bellorum bellis bellis... Or, as we chanted in 1963 (coincidentally, the year sexual intercourse was invented), Blum blum blum blee blo blo, blah blah blah, blorum bliss bliss (It's been a long time, Jack, so correct me if I'm wrong...) |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 18 Dec 19 - 09:08 PM Before the New Year....2020, Thanks to this thread... I will purchase a Susuki and Horner for side by side comparison. Sincerely, Gargoyle Thank You, In Frankfort, pre911, I was down to my boxers, T-shirt and socks before boarding...the issue was my "Otto White" logging boots with a steel-support...I firmly believe the Germans intended to reverse engineer this amazing boot. Otto and I have parted ways regarding air-travel...wool socks and Rockport suffice. Sincerely, Gargoyle |
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Subject: RE: Differences between harmonicas From: EBarnacle Date: 18 Dec 19 - 11:06 PM Steve, that is exactly my point. Complexity should be significantly more expensive than simplicity. |
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