BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7

Subject: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 12:42 PM

Do we have such a thread already?
Because I used the thread filter search (thanks, Joe Offer)
and I could not locate one.


Me, I believe that Bernie Sanders is in trouble.
Here's a January 2020 article from Vermont (dissidents?)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 03:24 PM

Not my country, But I think Trump is in with a good chance:
You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time . . ."

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 04:16 PM

A good chance to be what? Something other than a racist, amoral, incompetent asshole. No way.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 04:28 PM

I'd like to see Pete play against Biden and Trump in a special History game of Jeopardy.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 04:38 PM

What are the least amount of points you can score on Jeopardy? No doubt T@#%p would bottom out in the negative unless they had a Potent Porno Stars category.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 10:32 PM

Gee, keberoxu, do you think we could narrow the scope and re-title this thread "2020 US primary elections"? The General Election isn't until November. I hate to see this be the one-and-only thread on US elections. That leads to long and confusing threads, and the long threads tend to be battlefields. Better to narrow the scope. Contact SRS if you want to change the thread name.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 04:17 PM

Its fine to have a wide focus on 2020 elections.
This way we can take into account;
The base of haters, low information haters and swing haters,
as well as Schiff progressives, AOC progressives and the last FDR democrat.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 07:20 PM

Joe, I know you think I am a bit spooky/kooky. I accept that.
It is because I believe a mystery is the very place to begin to look for answers. I sometimes carry on in poetry and leave rhetoric for others. The refreshing poetry in the world is song. On screens or paper it is dry like powdered chocolate. One needs another ingredient, like an open mind

Vote with a kind mind
2020

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 08:43 PM

My take on 2020.... too many candidates chasing the money and trying to look different while still attracting a wide base of the party.

Long way to go yet, and many states yet to be heard from. What I fear is that all the media speculation that "X" is in trouble or that "Y" is surging before a single actual primary is actually driving X and Y in those directions.... like lab techs whose very attempts to study a microbe affects its growth...positively or negatively.

Did you ever go to a buffet and see far too many choices?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 11:40 AM

Well, here comes the primary for
the state of New Hampshire, this week.

Joe Offer has a point:
this election process may be too long,
with too many twists and turns, for a single forum thread.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 12:21 PM

If UK politics are confined to one thread, why should the US be any different? It’s a foregone conclusion anyway - the orange pussy-grabber will walk straight back in.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 02:30 PM

No.. not a foregone conclusion. He was beaten by 3 million votes last time, and just a few changes in a few states can fix that.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 03:00 PM

Trump is a maverick. And mavericks can surprise. At this stage, through the filter of the Atlantic ocean, we hear Trump v "A or B or C et al".

A divided opposition is a weak opposition.

Be afraid, America, be very afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 03:22 PM

"No.. not a foregone conclusion. He was beaten by 3 million votes last time, and just a few changes in a few states can fix that."

I hope you're right Bill. But I'm confident that his Diversion-Politics and your stupid Electoral College will trump* 'a few changes in a few states'.

*See what I did there? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 03:28 PM

Holy shit, "infighting" and a "divided opposition" are what you get during primary season.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 04:52 PM

My bumper: Vote while you still can

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 05:53 PM

I'm tempted to get one of these:

Click

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 07:03 PM

But you're getting divisions and the appearance of incompetence. Cf Iowa. Exactly the reasons Labour got trounced in our election. Make no mistake. Any hint of splits in leftie parties will militate against you, big time. You have all the media against you. As I cynically said to Mrs Steve yesterday, put six lefties in a room and you'll instantly get an ugly 3-3 split...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Iains
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:32 AM

With Cruella de vil as speaker, and plentiful infighting, the democrats will be on the rocks in November and triumphant Trump will sail serenely on. Barring a miracle of epic proportions the Democrats are scuppered.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 05:26 AM

You've fucked your own country up beyond all recognition, maybe you should give up political prognostication for whittling or some other useful hobby.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 06:39 AM

keb nuthin rong with predickshuns bein rong
member US Iran war bgins? - WRONG
I'm glad I was wrong
I am glad you are wrong.
Bernie will win tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 07:55 AM

"infighting" and a "divided opposition" are what you get during primary season.

The problemo is that we Brits, at this distance, can't see a divided Republican caucus. And we naturally draw analogies with the UK like:
1) a winning leader with questionable morals who just wants to be leader. All else is expediency thereto.
2) isolationist/xenophbic policies
3) vituperative electioneering
4) divided opposition

Albeit, we Brits are more reserved on that scale, but we are more shocked by the level, maybe.

We have a stake in the poutcome (finger trouble but I'll take the pun) after all, NOW!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 08:09 AM

Welcome to primary season. The incumbent doesn't often get a serious challenge and the opposition tears into each other.
Twitler won his nomination with the nastiest campaign since 1800.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 08:10 AM

No matter the poutcome, Trump will say it is rigged like he did last time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 08:19 AM

if "poutcome" was intentional, lol

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 11:36 AM

His revenge behavior is a poutcome.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:39 PM

Here we go with the first
of the state primaries.
(At least it isn't ice-storming.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:58 PM

After a terrible week for Democrats it looks like Bernie then Pete and then a surprise.

Buck up, so many of the Trump voters last time that were just looking for change are going to get change from Democrats.
Last time they wanted anything except 26+ years of a Clinton or a Bush.
So many are hurt by tariffs now, they need an intelligent President again.

Americans who need change this time will be smarter than ahem , Europeans

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 06:15 AM

yesterday
After a terrible week for Democrats it looks like Bernie then Pete and then a surprise.

today
how about that, I was right.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 07:59 AM

You've fucked your own country up beyond all recognition, maybe you should give up political prognostication for whittling or some other useful hobby.
A matter of opinion I would suggest!
and my prognostications this side of the pond were spot on. I disd not even have to resort to casting chhlorinated chicken bones,I merely studied the polls.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 07:12 AM

I Have. How did you know?
It only takes silence
to let evil men rule.
True to tell
You are full of stool
Iains you have lost your edge,
you have lost your poison.
But you still smell.

Dems may not have someone with a plurality leading to a brokered convention.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:52 PM

David Brooks is a holdout from the olden days, when there were moderate and even occasionally liberal Republicans. He is probably be that last man standing from that camp.

His essay from 2016 is even more relevant today. I'll paste it in here because it's relatively short and because people often hit a paywall when trying to read the New York Times.

The Governing Cancer of Our Time

We live in a big, diverse society. There are essentially two ways to maintain order and get things done in such a society — politics or some form of dictatorship. Either through compromise or brute force. Our founding fathers chose politics.

Politics is an activity in which you recognize the simultaneous existence of different groups, interests and opinions. You try to find some way to balance or reconcile or compromise those interests, or at least a majority of them. You follow a set of rules, enshrined in a constitution or in custom, to help you reach these compromises in a way everybody considers legitimate.

The downside of politics is that people never really get everything they want. It’s messy, limited and no issue is ever really settled. Politics is a muddled activity in which people have to recognize restraints and settle for less than they want. Disappointment is normal.

But that’s sort of the beauty of politics, too. It involves an endless conversation in which we learn about other people and see things from their vantage point and try to balance their needs against our own. Plus, it’s better than the alternative: rule by some authoritarian tyrant who tries to govern by clobbering everyone in his way.

As Bernard Crick wrote in his book, “In Defence of Politics,” “Politics is a way of ruling divided societies without undue violence.”

Over the past generation we have seen the rise of a group of people who are against politics. These groups — best exemplified by the Tea Party but not exclusive to the right — want to elect people who have no political experience. They want “outsiders.” They delegitimize compromise and deal-making. They’re willing to trample the customs and rules that give legitimacy to legislative decision-making if it helps them gain power.

Ultimately, they don’t recognize other people. They suffer from a form of political narcissism, in which they don’t accept the legitimacy of other interests and opinions. They don’t recognize restraints. They want total victories for themselves and their doctrine.

This antipolitics tendency has had a wretched effect on our democracy. It has led to a series of overlapping downward spirals:

The antipolitics people elect legislators who have no political skills or experience. That incompetence leads to dysfunctional government, which leads to more disgust with government, which leads to a demand for even more outsiders.

The antipolitics people don’t accept that politics is a limited activity. They make soaring promises and raise ridiculous expectations. When those expectations are not met, voters grow cynical and, disgusted, turn even further in the direction of antipolitics.

The antipolitics people refuse compromise and so block the legislative process. The absence of accomplishment destroys public trust. The decline in trust makes deal-making harder.

We’re now at a point where the Senate says it won’t even hold hearings on a presidential Supreme Court nominee, in clear defiance of custom and the Constitution. We’re now at a point in which politicians live in fear if they try to compromise and legislate. We’re now at a point in which normal political conversation has broken down. People feel unheard, which makes them shout even louder, which further destroys conversation.

And in walks Donald Trump. People say that Trump is an unconventional candidate and that he represents a break from politics as usual. That’s not true. Trump is the culmination of the trends we have been seeing for the last 30 years: the desire for outsiders; the bashing style of rhetoric that makes conversation impossible; the decline of coherent political parties; the declining importance of policy; the tendency to fight cultural battles and identity wars through political means.

Trump represents the path the founders rejected. There is a hint of violence undergirding his campaign. There is always a whiff, and sometimes more than a whiff, of “I’d like to punch him in the face.”

I printed out a Times list of the insults Trump has hurled on Twitter. The list took up 33 pages. Trump’s style is bashing and pummeling. Everyone who opposes or disagrees with him is an idiot, a moron or a loser. The implied promise of his campaign is that he will come to Washington and bully his way through.

Trump’s supporters aren’t looking for a political process to address their needs. They are looking for a superhero. As the political scientist Matthew MacWilliams found, the one trait that best predicts whether you’re a Trump supporter is how high you score on tests that measure authoritarianism.

This isn’t just an American phenomenon. Politics is in retreat and authoritarianism is on the rise worldwide. The answer to Trump is politics. It’s acknowledging other people exist. It’s taking pleasure in that difference and hammering out workable arrangements. As Harold Laski put it, “We shall make the basis of our state consent to disagreement. Therein shall we ensure its deepest harmony.”

Here is the link to the Twitter list of insults and here is the link to the Matthew MacWilliams piece he cites. The In Defence of Politics page may not load; I got a "very busy" message from the site when I tried it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 03:17 PM

Is this your PHD proposal?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 03:26 AM

This isn’t just an American phenomenon.

We see it around the world. The problem is that it is currently being seen in erstwhile stable** democracies.

Al Qaeda certainly started something, or burst a bubble that was festering.

**can't think of a more appropriate word

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 11:52 AM

I could not disagree more. But then we are free to disagree aren't we.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 01:17 PM

If a slaughterhouse owner wants to be elected president, all he has to do is convince enough beef cattle that dairy cattle are the source of all their problems.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 08:49 PM

Friends, catters and countrymen, lend me your eyes.
I come to speak of Trump, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Trump. The noble Schiff
Hath told you Trump abused power:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously Trump was impeached for it.
Here, under leadership of Schiff and the rest–
For Schiff is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men–
I come to speak of quid pro quo abuse.
Yes he was guilty and seldom faithful to the Constitution:
But Schiff says he abused power;
And Schiff is an honourable man.
Trump hath brought many captives to cages
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Trump seem abusive?
When that the poor have cried, Trump cared less:
Abuse should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Pelosi says he was abusive and vengeful;
And Pelosi is an honourable woman.
You all did see that in the Congress
But here I am to speak what I do know.
Many do love him , without cause.
O judgment! thou art aquited by your cohorts,
And men have lost their reason. Bear with me;
The constitution technically allows him to abuse power.
Only you the people can give the final word and judgment.

Conservative think tanks have stratagized legalities
You have the power of realities.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 12:04 PM

What if Mike Bloomberg chose Hillary Clinton as his running mate?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 08:41 PM

Wisconsin is Joe Offer's native state, yes?
Tuesday 18 February is the state primary for Wisconsin
if I read right.

and, my gosh,
Massachusetts where I live now
is having two separate primaries, I know not why:
a separate primary election
just for US President is
the first Tuesday in March -- that's coming up mighty fast !
My life is so, er, interesting of late that
I might have to do early voting,
which would be -- gulp -- next week ...
yes, this is one primary election I do NOT wish to miss.

Massachusett's "everything-else-primary-election"
is in the summertime ...
just how DID that happen??

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 11:15 AM

Donuel: "What if Mike Bloomberg chose Hillary Clinton as his running mate?" Clinton, I would go for, Bloomberg, not so much.

I've been researching Bloomberg and I'm not sure he would be much of an improvement over The current pResident. There is a lot of history there, folks.

At this point, as of today, I would vote for the ticket of Klobachar/Buttiegieg. However, I will work and vote for any Democratic nominee.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 06:57 PM

I can not stand the thought of Kl. on any ticket. I thought she was quite bad last night. I think she also has contempt for Bu. and shows it. I doubt they could work together. I want to know who can lead the country through an epidemic or a war. Who? Any of them? I think most could lead through health insurance, climate change..but the immediate..as opposed to longterm..catasrophes..? Who? I think Tulsi might be able to. I actually think Bloomberg might be the best at this although has serious problems both racist and sexist. Warren is certainly capable. Biden is/was but is compromised and showing signs of age although he was quite good last night in debates. Who can beat trump? I think Warren could. I think Bernie could but he needs to have his supporters not boycott any other candidate. I would prefer a WOC but Tulsi is not going to win and KH is out but I think she will be AG and go after everyone. I am offering EW FOR PResident and CB for VP so we can have a bulldog and a uniter on the ticket. Sorry CB did not do better..he has a bit of ME TOO baggage that I don't think he has fully addressed. Yang and castro for cabinet positions? Who for agriculture ? Someone who knows issues inside and out. Who for transportation? Must also deal with plague issues because that is one of the main ways it will spread.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 07:16 PM

I find that post to be incomprehensible.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mossback
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 10:29 PM

Its incomprehensible this side of the pond as well, Steve- its not just you.

In fact, its a pretty good imitation of a Trump speech.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 02:08 AM

Verbal Diarrhœa. IMHO, YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM

Tulsi is a Libertarian masquerading as a Democrat - there's a reason she hasn't qualified for debates since early on. Hawaii is lucky she isn't running for her house seat again. Bloomberg seems to be crumbling before our eyes and I hope he's still good for that promise to let his bucks back whoever is the nominee.

The idea that there is a good billionaire to beat the bad billionaire is ludicrous - it's the money that has corrupted in the first place, though Trump is without a conscience as he promotes his brand from the While House while continuing to manage his businesses. Someone who has been in government, who has made government their career and understands the whole Civics process, is needed to start clearing up the mess. And set a few of these rules that Trump shattered into stone so if another crackpot is elected in the future, they can't do the same damage.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 05:54 PM

With no disrespect whatever intended to you, mg,
here is my brief attempt at a
"legend" for your post
-- this is how I comprehend it anyhow.

Kl. -- Klobuchar
Bu. -- Buttigieg
WOC -- woman, "of course"
KH   -- Kamala Harris
AG   -- Attorney General
EW   -- Elizabeth Warren
CB   -- Cory Booker

and if I have to tell you who is meant by
"Yang" and   "Castro,"   ... too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 05:44 AM

The DNC is terrified of Bernie getting the nomination because they think he can't beat Trump. I say vote for him anyway because none of the other candidates can beat the beast either. If Trumpoid Boris can win in a landslide, the real bad-hair monstrosity will win as well. British politics always was the canary in the coalmine for the US. First Thatcher then Reagan; first Brexit then Trump.
The current group of Dem candidates are 5 septuagenarians and Mayor Pete. The only problem with Pete is that he will never inspire black voters to get out to the polls because of several issues during his term as mayor of South Bend, IN: firing the black chief-of-police; a police force that is made up of a much lower % of minority officers than the population; an urban renewal project where most of the houses that were brought up to code were in white neighborhoods and most of the ones razed were in black neighborhoods and just as he began his candidacy a black man shot by a white cop whose body cam had been turned off. Dems can't win the presidency without the black vote in full force: If Hillary would have gotten even half of the minority voters as Obama did, Trump would have been relegated to the dustbin of history 4 years back. I don't understand why some viable candidates like Booker, O'Rourke and Harris couldn't gain any traction, but we're left with what we have, and none will beat Trump.   
The silver lining is that because of the perverse nature of American politics the feckless Republicans will lose the Senate, the Dems will hold the house and the Donald, grandson of an illegal immigrant brothel keeper, son of a klansman, will just have to order a big box of veto pens.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 10:52 AM

I suspect that Putin thinks Bernie would be the easiest to beat also... because if he was the nominee, they would just claim him as a 'socialist'.... and Trump would..ummm... trumpet... "socialist" all thru the campaign. Too many people can't tell the difference between Democratic Socialist and something that is almost Communist.

I'm hoping for Warren...or even Biden...or Amy.. but after super Tuesday we can make a good guess. I'd happily vote for Mayor Pete, but don't expect him to get there.

My preferred candidate was too smart to get into this mess.... Claire McCaskill.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:02 AM

Stream of consciousness posts are best understood by their authors.
But even then...

The most profound post I have seen is that no one knows, not the pundits, Putin or public. The variables of a pandemic and money thrown around by the billions along with ideologic challenges and Trump uncerntainties is beyond any computational power I know of.

Of course I would not deny anyone the need to whinge away.

The basics will not go away however;

Those who believe that the only business of America is business is still pitted against "We the People".

The people who believe that all life is worth saving is pitted against
those who want to hang, behead, deport, war against and bomb.

It is more complex than good vs. evil. Or is it?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:20 AM

If the Democrats were smart, hahahaha
They would supply blue gloves and blue masks for every Democrat to wear to the polling place.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:23 AM

Republicans have their magic MAGA hats.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:43 AM

I stand with Will Rogers who once said "I belong to no organized political party...I'm a Democrat."

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:37 AM

A hundred years ago the DEMOCRATIC PARTY used to support the KKK.
Now the 'Democrat' party is the enemy of of the KKK and tacitly the friend of the Republican party.

Until 4 years ago the Republican Party used to stand against communism.
Now they are all "RED".

Russia fought a world war against fascism, now they support Trump and Trump supports Russian tyranical interests.

Politics makes strange bedfellows.
Now strange bed fellows are gay and aren't strange.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:41 AM

edit
Now the 'Democrat' party is the enemy of the KKK and the KKK is tacitly the friend of the Republican party.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:05 AM

The most profound post I have seen is that no one knows who the Democratic candidate will surely be, not the pundits, Putin or public.
The variables of a pandemic and money thrown around by the billions along with ideologic challenges and Trump uncertainties is beyond any computational power I know of.

The BASICS will not go away;

Those 'we the corporations' believe that the only business of America is business and is still pitted against
"We the People".

The people who believe that all life is worth saving is pitted against
those who want to hang, behead, deport, shoot and bomb and pollute.

It is basicly more complex than good vs. evil. It is the worship of greed OR selfless sacrifice. Guess who wins.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 01:14 PM

The Democrats have to stop with the purity tests but at the same time recognize that if Trump wants to run against Sanders and Putin wants Trump to run against Sanders . . . they wanted Sanders last time also. This time they get their wish and we're all sunk as Trump resorts to dirty tricks and name calling and Bernie has a heart attack and loses.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 01:35 PM

Trick #1

Bernie Sanders, a sick demented Demoncrat, is 'reported' to have election assistance from Russia and Ukraine.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 04:11 PM

My standard note about political parties... the Dems & Repubs have almost exactly switched positions since Lincoln's day. LBJ and his Civil Rights bit in the 60s brought out the Dixiecrats... and the solid South was a thing of the past.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 04:27 PM

My ideas about politics is that of an old fogey.
I'm gonna throw a platter of baby elephant walk on the phonograph machine and (literally) cut a rug because I feel so young. Then I'm gonna go to the icebox, grab a Yoo Hoo and settle down in front of the boob tube to watch some John Wayne. I love the way he protects that whippersnapper who lost her dad. But if you ask me about Trump I'll tell you he is a low down double dealing no good lieing pony soldier that is full of malarkey. And that ain't just whistlin Dixie. Remember "The first rule of hair club is to not talk about hair club". I keep up with some of the latest trends but at heart I'm a full fledged fogey.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 05:29 PM

i think someone has to be prepared to not only defeat trump but perhaps some woman of great reputation and character and competence. the only one that comes to mind is condoleeza rice. i really doubt they would put up ivanka, even for vp. it reeks. we need someone with great skill and pragmatism. Enough to carry us through a possible war and epidemic. Who? I keep coming back to bloomberg although I would far rather have warren. I recognize bloomberg's negatives..the ones i know about at least. biden seems lost and is compromised. sanders seems screechy. warren seems fine really. buttigieG ?? love his wit. Klobachar? No way period.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 05:37 PM

I know which Rice you meant but it wasn't Condoleeza. Although Condoeeza's keyboard skills are excellent.

So you want to beat a woman again? Shame on you.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:23 AM

Might I suggest that a more grown-up approach to your politics could incorporate better standards of judging your candidates than whether you think they seem "screechy" or "witty"?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM

Susan Rice. I think Condoleeza would rather be the commissioner of baseball. And she's a Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:27 PM

Things NOT mentioned in debates

-pretty much everything we discuss in BS including climate, guns and disease.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:44 PM

Since crowds and rallies will be hazardous to your health, Bloomberg will do all campaigning by TV. When will he begin being a Democrat supporting the chosen candidate Bernie?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 04:47 PM

Might I suggest that a more grown-up approach to your politics could incorporate better standards of judging your candidates than whether you think they seem "screechy" or "witty"? Good one, Steve, when we look at the clown you have in office right now.

Prior to 2016 Trump was misbehaving and the networks let it run because it drew eyeballs and dollars. Did they think he'd win? Probably very few, including Trump, thought he'd win. Everything about him is so immature - that whole debate thing about the size of his hands and his dick - really? He lets the shit fly whenever, and that is what the networks and news outlets need to learn to ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:12 PM

Sadly I was one of the few.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:55 PM

Hey Maggie, I wasn't suggesting for one second that we don't have our equal quota of the feeble-minded over here...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:32 AM

i absolutely meant condoleeza running instead of trump. his declining mental and physical status could very well and hopefully take him out of the race. i doubt cr wants the job but she seems competent.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 04:44 AM

Where I was from before we used to say it you out a red rosette on a pig it would get elected. Where I am now the same can be said for a blue rosette. Until we remove tribal politics and vote for the best people for the job we will always get power hungry despots like Trump and Johnson.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 06:11 AM

Spot on, Dave. Sadly, where I am, we have a blue-rosette-bedecked pig. Although he looks more like Quasimodo.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 05:29 AM

Last night President Donald Trump made his Coruna Virus Natuinal announcemnt.

He made cringe worthy claims from the briefing room which has been locked and unused for 1 year. He Dumped the entire Covid 19 task force on Pense.

Trump claimed that Corona is just a flu much less dangerous than the flu. He said the death rate of the flu is many times greater than 3 and corona is lower than flu. He also said the stock market collapse on Monday morning was due to the Democrat Debate Tuesday night.

Not even Putin can out do Trump lies

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 05:38 AM

I’m less concerned about Trump’s lies than I am about the fact that so many people believe him. Rather like the way Nouveau-Tories in Red-Wall areas here believed the lies of Dom & Dumber during the GE.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 07:07 AM

a billionaire, a gay and a socialist walk into a convention. The gay and socialist are asked for a cover charge but not the billionaire.
How come just us? The billionaire says "I'm the owner".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: John P
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:20 PM

Trump gets out of bed:

"Good morning", he lied.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 06:53 PM

CNN POLL

The economic system in the US;
works well as is   10%
needs minor changes 35%
needs complete overhaul 51%

Race
white   41%
Black   55%
Hispanoc 3%

Age;
17-29   10%
30-44   18%
45-64   43%
65-    29%

Ideology;
Very liberal   20%
Somewhat lib   30%
Moderate       40%
Conservative    9%

Ever voted;
yes         81%
1st time    18%

When did you decide
today       16%
recent       21%
earlier      19%
january       6%
before that   38%

Nominate someon who
can beat Trump       53%
agrees with you      43%

What qualiy mattered most
can bring needed change 38%
unites the country    27%

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 07:00 PM

Feelings about Trump
Dissatisfied   37%
Angry          48%

Vote Democratic regardless of nominee
Yes   80%
No    17%

Which issues is foremost to you
Health care    39%
Income inequality 21%
Race relations   18%
Climate change   14%


Government plan instead of private insurance
Support 50%
Oppose 44%

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 07:07 PM

That South Carolina poll and winner is Joe Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:29 PM

"Super Tuesday" primary elections are at hand.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:46 PM

Dunning-Kruger Effect

This is Trump, in the lower percentile assuming he's a genius. Proclaiming his brains to his low-percentile followers. Don't expect them to change their minds, outnumber them and vote the jerk out of office.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 08:50 PM

When I posted a while back that I thought anything could happen,
I didn't anticipate
that Pete Buddigieg would drop out of the race this soon.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:07 PM

Me neither!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:30 PM

I started this election backing Elizabeth Warren, and I'm still backing her. She has a wisdom that I really respect. I like all the Democratic candidates, but it's Elizabeth Warren who matches my point of view. She did a great segment with Stephen Colbert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6v2DbTyi4&t=317s

Can't say much about her choice of beer, though.....but I'll forgive that.

Oh, take a look at The Daily Show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6UxhDPzbsE

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 06:46 AM

Joe, over the years did you hear the interviews that Terry Gross conducted with Warren? On Fresh Air, Warren was her go-to expert on a lot of financial topics. I did the search according to the oldest interview first. It says there were only seven; I imagine I heard repeats on occasion because it seemed like more.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 08:11 AM

10 years ago documentaries on the corrupt banking system featured Warren and they were excellent

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:43 AM

Tomorrow is the really big multiple-state presidential primary election.
And two less names on the ballots,
or at least two less candidates in the running.
It's going to be ... tense.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM

Yes indeed tommorow promises to be a real Roller Pollster.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 04:53 PM

Or is it Poller Coaster?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 04:37 PM

Joe Biden in fifth place and out of cash made a grand underdog come back story on one endorsement, only to now face the bloomberg death star of endless cash.
And I thought Bernie was a David and Golieth story.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 05:54 PM

Did you see SNL's skit on Feb. 29? With McKinnon's Warren verbally tackling Bloomberg wherever she goes? Who else do we know who is (supposedly) really really rich and has changed parties and opinions so many times over the years? Why trade one Quixotic billionaire for another one. They nailed that one perfectly. "I may be number five in the polls but I'm number one in your nightmares." Feb. 29 episode.

#TrumpSlump

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:16 AM

i still think we could get elizabeth warren. she seems competent. biden is going to have some creepy hair sniffing videos all over the trump ads and he seems to be declining in acuity. I would take bloomberg over biden or sanders but warren would be my choice.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:56 AM

Speaking as an outsider here!

I remember hearing vox pop segments last time where democrats were saying that if Hilary got the nomination rather than their choice, they would vote Trump. Seemed odd to me at the time, but I could see it happening this time. Biden's campaign will, I think, label Sanders as such an extreme socialist who wants to take all of your money that I can see a lot of Democrats thinking they are safer with Trump. The opposite situation is probably less extreme, but if Sanders is labelling Biden as "pretty much the same as Trump" in terms of policies, I could see Sanders supporters saying it doesn't really matter who they vote for, then.

From here, it looks like near tie looks as if it could benefit Trump more than anyone. Please tell me I am wrong!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:10 AM

Bernie stabbed himself in the heart with his doubling down on Castro and revolution talk

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:19 AM

This whole thing [Democratic dysunity] is benefitting none but trump.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 04:30 PM

There is much less "dysunity" today than there was at the start of yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:03 PM

Much as I regard Bernie's politics as by far the closest to mine ever in the history of the US, I don't think you're ready for him. Normally, I'd say stick to your socialist principles. But it's so important that we get rid of Trump that I think you buggers had all better get behind Joe. I'll get me coat.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 11:18 PM

No reason to get your coat Steve, you're probably right. I also side with Bernie on nearly every issue but realize the U S isn't ready for universal healthcare and public college education. Funny how every other industrial country is. Trump is salivating at the prospect of running against him, but don't underestimate the Republican machine's ability to attack Uncle Joe. Even now the Republican controlled Senate is ginning up a sensationalized investigation of Hunter Biden. Never mind the fact that his time on the board of Burisma Holdings has already been investigated and found to be completely above board and free of corruption. That won't stop the cynical campaign of snide insinuation and innuendo. Several months ago a pundit said that the upcoming impeachment would hurt Biden worse than Trump. He may have been right.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Iains
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 03:24 AM

Trump's choice is sleepy Joe. You know it makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 05:38 AM

This whole thing [Democratic dysunity] is benefitting none but trump.

I tried to make that point. Given a choice of a single front runner and a squabbling cohort - the average undecided voter will plump for the loudest voice, and we know who shouts loudest.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 05:51 AM

She--it, there is so much democratic unity, all the California results HAVE BEEN DELAYED for days to make Joe look like the front runner for as long as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM

the great trump hunch

Trump has a hunch his numbers are best
his truth is better than all of the rest.
The Pense Prayer to walk before you crawl
will save you from any thinking at all

Even if it doesn't make any sense
go to work if you are sickly or tense
I've done the best, its clear to see
It will all go away if you vote for me.

The Democrat is sickest by far
to politicize a cold like SARS
Its better to kill them if they come near
with all their coughing and media fears

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 11:31 AM

Is it too little, too late?

Rachel Maddow interviews Bernie Sanders

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 11:44 AM

2 weeks ago it was Bernies to lose and he did an excellent job of losing by not joining the Pettis bridge march and his remarks about Castro.
Sure the corporate candidates ganged up against him, but Bernie's mouth guaranteed losing the convention vote when it comes.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 12:07 PM

I now wear gloves which reminds me if I touch my face.
You will find it the hardest habit to break

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: John P
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 11:30 AM

Why should we expect the Democratic party to be unified during the primary season? This is the time where we get to see the differences between the candidates. As soon as we pick a candidate, there will be plenty of unity directed toward getting rid of the beast. And besides, it doesn't matter very much to me which Democrat gets it, although I'm very glad that Bloomberg dropped out. The rest of them are fine people with their own strengths and weaknesses as candidates. Any of them are infinitely better than any Republican, who are all crooks these days.

. . . his remarks about Castro.
Donuel, have you become a Republican or something? Why are you repeating their lies, acting like Sanders' comments were bad in any way? Do you really have a problem with a presidential candidate praising a literacy program in another country? He was very clear about all the things he doesn't like about Castro as well, but you don't bother reporting that.

John P

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 04:05 PM

I know that Castro was the perfect gentleman while Nixon was a flaming ass hole, but explaining how the bad blood began is lost on our rather shallow citizens.
Like all of us sometimes, Bernie could have have shut up but decided to shout.

It would be better for Bern to define Biden than let Biden define him.


The most Republican thing I have said is that the business of America is business.
Thats why we have more property laws than civil rights laws.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 10:26 AM

The DNC run to Biden is the thought that more Democrats will take the Senate and House than with Sanders as President. Maybe its true but its just a proposed strategy.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 08:59 AM

Seven more states in the US
hold presidential primary elections this week.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 05:53 PM

Some customary election-night rallies have been cancelled
thanks to the fear around the coronavirus.
(Ohio, for example)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 09:10 AM

With hindsight from the outbreak of today we should have chosen a young survivor like Mayor Pete.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 03:19 PM

Just because candidates drop out of the presidential running,
they won't drop out of sight, after all.
Far from it --
we are still some ways off from the decision about
who the running-mates will be when it is nomination time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 05:15 AM

last night on UK TV Channel 5 - Henry VIII & Trump: History repeating?

The premise was to compare the similarities. Yea Yea there are differences, but the similarities will alarm you.

1) Second son, inherited by the death of elder brother. Tries harder to prove himself.
2) Married his mistress as second trophy wife and it didn't go well.
3) First wife demonstrated power/success to outshine husband. Ego couldn't take it.
4) Tyrannical, ruthless hiring/firing often, eg beheading/jailing.
5) recruited from below establishment tier of advisers, yes men, beholden!
6) tore up the rule book. Messy chaotic decision making.
7) throws so many curve balls no-one can deal with them all, confuses everyone.
8) countered print/cyber criticisms as treason/fake news. Uses the technology of the day to promulgate his vituperation - print/twitter.
9) Philanderer/lothario.
10) Trump's 47th birthday party invite showed a picture of him on a throne, sword in hand, girl at feet. Holbein painted Henry to emphasise his power, towering over family. Ego personified.

Now the extrapolation:

Henry 8 left a power vacuum behind that descended into in-fighting and rapid switches. And (get this) the pundits looked to Queen Liz 1 and then to Ivanka and compared their strategies. And the strap line was:
as bizzare as it sounds, but don't bet against Ivanka being the first female president".

Many thought Twitler wouldn't get there! We are living in interesting times!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 05:21 PM

Thomas Frank talk at Kansas City Public Library

I hour long, I haven't got to the end of it, but what I get from him is:

1) The Democrats have shifted emphasis from the blue collar workers of FDR and the depression to the winners - the lawyers, lecturers, Doctors, PhDs etc classes,

2) the Republicans have stolen the phrases of the FDR era and make Trump look like working class (huh?).

The image that came to me was a graph of the US political scenery, with Repubs Right, Democrats on the left, but there is a vertical dimension (aka money), where the democrats have moved up-market. Trump has mined the under-belly that the Dems have not talked to with enough conviction.

Maggie Thatcher did much the same. She appealed to the working class Tories. Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 11:11 PM

Interesting to watch state of Ohio presidential primary today;
a handful of in-person voters
practicing social distancing
and wearing face masks at the polls,
and many other people voting by mail.
The news journalists are considering this one example
as something that may have to be followed
as long as COVID-19 has the better of us.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 09:12 AM

So far 20 cases of Covid resulted from voting

Meat packers are protesting. If they don't show up for work they won't get unemployment. When the government says work or give up unemployment insurance we know why there is this push to 'officially open' business.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 May 20 - 10:01 AM

Now it has come to this:

The Tuesday after the first Monday in November --
sacrosanct for Election Day in the USA,
as per a federal statute.

Now the current US President's son-in-law,
in his capacity as 'senior White House advisor,'
has blurted out in a Time Magazine interview
that November's Election Day
is included in many things that
a second outbreak of coronavirus could change --
and today, he retracts the statement.

But that he made the statement in the first place ...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 03:55 PM

9 June has turned into another Super Tuesday
in the series of US state primary elections.
State primary elections
that were previously scheduled at an earlier date,
and then postponed
due to the coronavirus pandemic,
have sort of piled up today.

Reports from the state of Georgia
are troubling, with accusations about
disruptions in the voting process through
everything from machines breaking down
to the closing of some polling places.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 05:59 PM

What Trump wants is a maskless rally-convention as usual.
I heard his new slogan "Make America come back again"

If memory serves, McCain's slogan was "Take America back"

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 09:22 PM

. . . and then there was George McGovern, remember him?
"Come home, America!"

The late columnist Shana Alexander wrote
with typical world-weariness,
that "Come home, America!"
reminded her of
"a decent man calling his cocker spaniel from the back porch."

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 09:39 AM

... and there is still concern about
the primary election in Maryland
which was one week ago.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 04:52 PM

My mail in ballot could be invalidated since the return envelope was partially sealed and I had to tear it slightly to open it. Like counting chads one could claim it was tampered with. Stacy Abrams also claimed her return envelope ballot was totally sealed shut.

IOWA WINS THE TrUMP RALLY ON JUNE TEENTH
Instead of celebrating freeing the slaves Trump will have his racist rally on the same day. Trump will encourage no masks and make no mention of the pandemic. good luck Iowans.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:22 PM

It's another Super Tuesday of primary elections.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:40 PM

Yup. I voted absentee a while back, but I walked my absentee ballot in myself.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 11:28 AM

A possible harbinger of the big election in November:
so many absentee/mail-in ballots
that in some of yesterday's races,
it may be upwards of a week before counting is definite.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 11:32 AM

I saw a reported poll with B > T by 14 pts

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 12:58 PM

NY held its primary yesterday. AOC has won the primary for her seat in a Blue district. Other results are notyet reported due to slow counting of absentee ballots.
Lady Hillary and I have mailed in our NJ absentee ballots, checked off for Sanders. We know that Biden has won the nomination. Having said that, Sanders' delegate representation at the [virtual] convention will give him input on the platform.
Trump is doing a wonderful job of shooting himself in the tongue. I sent a not to Biden HQ suggesting that, if Agent Orange does his usual incoherent job in the first debate, they should move to eliminate the other two out of pity for both Trump and the public.
Trump wants more debates but that would be a total waste of the public airwaves.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 04:24 PM

This was in the Juneteenth/independence thread...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/

Blicky.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:04 PM

AhA! I knew I'd made a blicky. Anyway, if it's behind a paywall, I've pasted the text into that other thread, thinking I was pasting it here.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 05:44 AM

I watched a documentary on the "National Enquirer" and in the closing stages - even ex-staff were agog at the overt political bias in the 2016 election. And the closing text said:

"In 2018, federal prosecutors granted immunity to David Pecker and AMI for admitting the company made illegal payments to influence the 2016 presidential election"

And the programme had already delineated the connection between Pecker and Trump. If I remember rightly, Trump was a director of one of the AMI companies.

Yes, it is a shit publication, but influential, particularly to its demographic.

Be afraid America, be very afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:43 AM

'Trump Think' is a new problem solving strategy which is a spin off of Denial.
If you want numbers to look more favorable-stop measuring.
If you don't test for cancer or Covid the numbers will drop.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 07:57 AM

The Pense Pandemic Task Force:

By doing nothing, a few people will get sick and die. This is our amazing and successful official policy in the US which is now passing its earlier all time high infection rate. We're #1. Remember " we must not make the cure worse than the disease". So we open early, force certain workers into infection chambers at work, roll back testing and contact tracing, have unmasked political gatherings inside and by not supporting people who are unemployed. Go to crowded events and party. People are saying that those who die are already old or black... wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean?

We must even decide if we should try to save those who weakly decide to succumb to the virus at all if there are not enough beds, PPE or medical treatments.
We must not make treatment worse than the effect on the economy!
So go ahead and take no personal responsibility. DO NOT WEAR A MASK.
Be a fancy free Steve. You don't have to chant 'Lets do nothing' but just be sure to take no social respondsibility.
Not caring for the sick and dieing is easier than it sounds. It is the last viral intrusion on our lives. All that wasted money is saved. WE DON'T NEED TO BURY THE DEAD. Body removal has been shown to work best with ovens. Gas is cheap now, so take a flight and smirk. That reciculated air in a hypo baric pressure tube is less dangerous than an infected TSA agent. You can even take a cruise at half price.
Make life cheap again! {^/ PRAY PRAY PREY

HIEL TRUMP 2020

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:35 PM

TRUMP THINKS
Removing millions from the Affordable Health Care Act by an order by the Supreme Trump Court couldn't happen at a better time than in the middle of a pandemic. It will save time and beds for people with Cadillac Insurance plans. Let the poor heal themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 04:15 PM

He is so stubbornly selfish, it's clear that no one could ever change his mind. What's good for him must be good for America, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 12:02 PM

BIDEN SAYS HE IS comfortable with letting Trump hang himself.
Trump said that is lynching hate speech and a criminal murder threat, until an aid reminded him that he would have to hang himself first for those charges to stick. :^?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 20 - 06:28 AM

So who ya gonna vote for, sleepy Joe Offer or tantrum Trump?
Republicans want a moniker more villiainous than 'sleepy' Joe.
But what?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 20 - 02:00 PM

First Joe Offer is sleepy only bfore bed. As for the national election, We are already in the extreme silly season of an election.
I don't know which lies are more effective anymore but there are more extreme prevarications arriving more often. To even respond to them is a participation in the stagecraft of the absurd. 'Minds will be boggled but not changed at this point'.
The power of real raw self interest of Democrats and Republicans will be the driving force from now on, and that outcome is partially up to you despite the dumpster fires and suppressions.
So I'm goin cat fishin with some yarn on a stick until Halloween and try to ignore politics till then.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 09:25 PM

Another big Tuesday of primary elections.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 03:37 PM

All the world’s a hoax,
And all the men and women merely minions;
They have their firing and their hiring;
And the best man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms;
And then the winning school-boy, with his ball
And shining morning face, the greatest of the great
school is purchased. And then Cassenova,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his prostitites’ ear. Then a cadet soldier,
Full of strange oaths, Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,Seeking the Epstien reputation
Even in the liars mouth. And then the injustice,
In fair round belly filled with fast food,
With eyes severe and hair of surgical cut,
Full of wise guys and modern instances;
And so he plays his TV part. The sixth age shifts
Into the statue of President.
With no mask on nose and a pouch a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his mocking voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
His second childishness and mere oblivion;
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 04:53 PM

It might help if people educated themselves on people who stutter. Good article on stuttering by a stutterer interviewing Joe Biden

The Atlantic January/February 2020 (Emma) Alpern told me that she’s on a group text with other stutterers who regularly discuss Biden, and that it’s been “frustrating” to watch the media portray Biden’s speech impediment as a sign of mental decline or dishonesty. “Biden allows that to happen by not naming it for what it is,” she said, though she’s not sure that his presidential candidacy would benefit if he were more forthcoming. “I think he’s dug himself into a hole of not saying that he still stutters for so long that it would strike people as a little weird.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 05:38 PM

I've never heard that Biden had a speech impediment. Gaffes, yes, but nothing else.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 04:12 AM

I watched a couple of videos and there are notable Americans out there openly calling Trump a liar. And always referring to him as Mr Trump, never president!

The Russian angle looks to be a pivotal issue for him. Anyone with an angle to get rid of the UK's very own buffo?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 09:24 AM

Ok I knew this was coming:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-2020-us-election-third-term-tim-wirth-white-house-a9600486.html

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jul 20 - 07:50 AM

From: oldhippie - PM
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 09:30 PM

HOW FAR WE HAVE COME

Bill Frederick

When our fathers came to this golden land
There was nothing but forests and rivers and sand
And a few million Indians running around
Now look what we've made of the little they found

Theyre's cities of silver that shine in the night
Churches of splendor and halls of delight
And only an echo of Indian drums
Who can deny how far we have come

The slave ships they came with the whip and the rack
And a million black people with scars on their back
Picked cotton, drew water, and slept in the cold
With a bible for comfort they were happy and cold

The laws they were passed, slavery went
Our lives integrated at least six percent
In the sharecroppers shack and the big city slum
Who can deny how far we have come

The immigrants came from the green Irish shore
From Poland and Russia, ten million and more
Germany, Italy, all the world round
To settle our ghettos and immigrant towns

Their brains and their bodies they put to the wheel
To build our great factories and towers of steel
To march to our battles and carry our guns
Who can deny how far we have come

Now all through the Andes, they've heard of our name
On the factory wall, in the palace of shame
They drink Coca Cola and the times that they spend
Goes straight to the pockets of our businessmen

To pay for our Fords, and our split level homes
Our Hi-Fis and records and six percent loans
Our profits protected with dictators guns
Who can deny how far we have come

In Asia and Africa, they're learning too
How free enterprise can do wonders for you
South Africas prisons are bursting with men
Barbed wire keeps the Vietnamese in

Where elections are daydreams that never get far
American weapons are there standing guard
We're ready to fight for the lands that we run
Who can deny how far we have come

Our fears they are many though they're seldom saved
They're black and they're yellow and they're brown and they're red
They see through the legend, they smell the decay
They're learning to fight the American way

And we in our armchairs are quick to condemn
Our bankbooks are falling, our profits might end
The breaking of change is our funeral hum
Who can deny how far we have come

When our fathers came to this golden land
There was nothing but forests and rivers and sand
And a few million Indians running around
Now look what we've made of the little they found

Theyre's cities of silver that shine in the night
Churches of splendor and halls of delight
And only an echo of Indian drums
Who can deny how far we have come

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Jul 20 - 08:26 AM

Good poetry, there.

Dubya and his pack/PAC-mates are working against idiot, wow.

And the WH is keeping, or trying to keep, him from talking to Americans at all, especially about the [whispering] pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jul 20 - 10:49 PM

First let's get some spelnig strait: It's Condoleezza.

Next I think that it will turn out that the country has accelerated its liberating trends in the Tr*mp administration. Because of the current occupant we've seen much more desecration of Confederate erstwhile idols and their battleflag.

There's something about having an oaf in office that makes you just want to pour water on a burning cross...

I don't think this would be the case if Hilary had won. I think Nascar would still have the flag and Washington R-skins would not be considering a name change. On the other hand, would there be thousands more Americans alive? Very likely...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 20 - 06:16 PM

spelnig sounds racist

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 06:04 AM

The Republican Convention will be attended by Mike Lindell the my pillow guy and Rand Paul but everyone else from the Senate and Tik Tok are doubtful. There may even be more Michigan militiamen than delegates. Steve Scalise is promoting an 'IN PERSON' Disney World PAC convention to collect money for Trump since he doesn't trust the mail for donations.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 11:05 AM

It's Hillary. Two l's. And yes, I think there would be many more Americans alive if a decent human being were president and not the sociopath in the office right now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 11:26 AM

Robo knows how to spell but typos happen.
I like misspelling delibertely like "scarred strait"

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 08:12 AM

I have been wondering if it's worth all the death and destruction to a) not reelect him and b) get rid of the confederacy crap / have all lives actually ally matter...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 08:12 AM

Kanye West for president? less than 6mins into this.

And you thought you cannot make up this kinda crap!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 03:24 PM

The Republican Govenors who stuck to Trump like a wet tongue to dry ice are now beggining to peel off as the results of the Trump folly of reopening ASAP has turned into the greatest out break of Covid on Earth.
Texas, Florida and others are reversing course but stopping and reversing are quick for trains and cruise ships when compared to entire states in an exponential pandemic.

I think Trump has exceeded Picketts charge at Gettysburg as far as folly and tradgedy goes.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 09:23 PM

The Supreme Court decided that the prez is subject to supeonas afterall

Also decided is a case by the Cree Indians who learned that a treaty in 1907 shows clearly they own half of Tulsa Oklahoma. THEY WON
The native Americans will end up with better healthcare and much more.
More will come out about this.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 10 Jul 20 - 12:54 AM

Blackish star Anthony Anderson had this to say about Kanye's announcement: "Wow, President Kanye. That's right—Yeezy wants to be Preezy and you know, laugh all you want, but this would be historic because, while this country has had a Black president, we've never had a crazy Black president."

The actor continued, "It should be pointed out that Kanye still has to register with the Federal Election Commission, collect enough signatures to get on the ballot, create a campaign platform and he's already missed the deadline to file as an independent candidate in a bunch of states. But other than that," Anderson concluded, "he good."

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jul 20 - 02:28 AM

while this country has had a Black president, we've never had a crazy Black president.

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 20 - 05:40 PM

Constitutional scholor prez- been there done that
KRazY sTupid- been there done that
How about survival oriented?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Aug 20 - 09:44 AM

Well, primary elections are distinct from national elections,
especially when the races are for official state posts.
Still.

Yesterday was the Arizona primary.
Old Joe Arpaio ran for his old office of sheriff,
and was defeated by only 500 votes for the incumbent.

Every vote really DOES count ...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 20 - 10:01 AM

Its been week of Yo Semites, Thighland and claims that Biden is a radical left winger who is banning religion Hurting God.
It turns out I have the same ancestory as Trump, English-German and Scottish. The only differences are polar opposite fathers, 8 Billion dollars and a few IQ points.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 20 - 05:43 PM

And of course Biden will take your guns away.
The NRA is now a paper tiger and has no money for Republicans in the short run as LaPierre and cronies are looking at jail time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Aug 20 - 02:49 PM

At latest report,
the Republican primary election in
Arizona's Maricopa County, for county sheriff
(Greater Metropolitan Phoenix et al.),
seems decided.
In the previous election, Democrat candidate Paul Penzone defeated
longtime incumbent Joe Arpaio.
This Democrat incumbent will face challengers in November.

This past Tuesday, two candidates fought for the Republican candidacy:
Joe Arpaio, now in his '80s,
and his former deputy, Jerry Sheridan.
Although the race was close,
Sheridan now has a 6,000+ lead, in votes, over Arpaio.

(Whew)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 11:25 AM

Went to see our dentist today in South London today for some torture and the usual lecture!! The receptionist was from USA and told us that her sister in Denver will be sending voting papers by Fedex so that she can vote against Trumpety Trump. I think the words she used to describe Trump was mental arsehole!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 11:27 AM

89 days

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 20 - 08:01 AM

White Nationalist Miller + Himmler

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 20 - 08:13 AM

GOERING AND POMPEO
Family heritage
Pompeo

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 20 - 02:34 PM

BIDEN PICKS HILLARY FOR VP !!!!!!
He figures she was robbed the first time.
This misinformation although fake is typical for DEMOCRATIC PARTY WISDOM
Remember Geraldine Ferraro?
-send all hate mail to Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 09:31 AM

I was just trying to remember Geraldine Ferraro's name. I knew I would recognize it, but could not recall it at all.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 04:57 PM

So what do we think? An insult to white men?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 05:26 PM

No surprise Kamala Harris was selected. She is an experienced campaigner. I was hoping for Warren, but she's also older, and Susan Rice has a lot of experience but has never run a campaign. The Trumpites would revive their Bengazi claims (four people died, all hell broke loose as far as they are concerned, those who are silent about 160,000 dead from COVID-19).

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 07:04 PM

It's a gutsy choice on Biden's part. I think of it as a reverse of Obama selecting an older, known, white male to stabilize his campaign. In this case it's the old, too well known, too white, too male picking a younger female of color who can get out there and provide some energy to balance the perceptions of the main runner. I think it shows some guts in the old boy. Now I've got to hear from my California contacts to see what they think and feel about it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Aug 20 - 06:17 AM

Joe Biden (age 77) selects Kamala Harris (the second African American woman and the first Indian American to serve in the United States Senate) as his running mate.
If Biden wins the presidency his age makes possible the second non-white President, and the first female President.
Is the USA moving into the twenty-first century? (only the voters can decide)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Aug 20 - 07:21 AM

Sadly, the electoral college will decide. I think Biden made the right call in Harris but I wonder how soon before an increasingly desperate twitler calls into question her country of origin.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 12:29 PM

"[Donald] Trump, like [Joe] Arpaio,
is never going to go away."

The Guardian on 'Sheriff' Joe Arpaio, Donald Trump, and the Arizona state primary election

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 01:58 PM

In Virginia you can vote early, as of 45 days before the election.

Is it 45 days yet?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 03:42 PM

Scary scenarios here.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 04:46 PM

If this article on postal problems is behind a paywall lemme know, I'll post the article.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 20 - 10:05 AM

Larry Elliot on today's Guardian website. Yanks, take nothing for granted. You could easily be in for four more years.

...the polls have started to tighten a bit and are likely to close still further over the coming weeks, because Trump has three things going for him.

The first is that the number of new Covid-19 cases appears to have peaked, with definite signs of progress in some of the bigger states such as Florida, Texas and California. What happens to the virus over the coming months will have a material impact on the state of the economy.

The second – somewhat ironically – is that activity in China has bounced back more rapidly than expected, and this is keeping global stock markets buoyant. Here, Trump is getting the best of both worlds: he piggybacks on Chinese growth while at the same time getting tough with Beijing over trade and human rights – something that plays well with voters.

Finally, he has the benefit of being the incumbent, which allows him to pull off stunts like the signing of executive orders to provide fresh support to the unemployed. Under the separation of powers, Congress holds the purse strings in the US so Trump’s initiative is unlikely to amount to much, but that’s not the point. This is all about who gets blamed for the impasse between Republicans and Democrats over the next phase of stimulus.

To win, Trump needs nothing to go wrong and everything to go right in the coming months: no surges in Covid-19, no setbacks to the economy, no share price crashes on Wall Street. It is a tall order but Biden should take nothing for granted.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Aug 20 - 08:08 PM

It's possible for Amazon Prime members to subscribe to the Washington Post for $4 a month after a six month free trial. It's worth it in this political era.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Aug 20 - 09:44 PM

I don't fucking believe it. Grr.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Aug 20 - 11:21 AM

The New York Times printed a feature article
connecting the now-defeated Joe Arpaio with
incumbent Donald Trump.

How Joe Arpaio's Fate in Arizona could be a Window into Trump's


As to Arizona, and the Maricopa County sheriff:
it ain't over yet.
That was the Republican primary contest this month (August),
and Arpaio was defeated by Jerry Sheridan, Arpaio's former deputy,
who becomes the Republican candidate in November.
Sheridan will face
incumbent Sheriff Penzone, the Democrat,
who defeated Arpaio four years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 12:14 AM

Three nights and they've put it over the top each time. I'm curious who the host will be tomorrow - my money is on someone like Henry Louis Gates or S. Epatha Merkerson.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 11:58 AM

Everyone trying to be all cuddly and consensual gets a bit boring after a while.

But the Michelle and Barack Obama both did a remarkably good job. The trouble is, by contrast, it made most of the others look pretty routine.

The most effective bits I saw were the occasion snatches of Trump, which should be enough to motivate a landslide for Biden. Unfortunately, incredible though it seems, there are millions of Americans whose stomachs do not appear to turn over at the very thought of the man.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 01:21 PM

It is still scary.

79.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 20 - 09:52 AM

The Neo white power nationalist Republi CON party will be adding Q-Anon to their ranks in Congess.
Q Anon isn't boring but they have crazy beliefs.
Their catch phrase is 'where one goes we all go'. ??
Perhaps they need a national anthem; I have a humble submission...

Well, I saw the thing comin' out of the sky
It had the one long horn, one big eye
I commenced to shakin' and I said "ooh-eee"
It looks like a purple people eater to me
It was a one-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
(One-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater)
A one-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
Sure looks strange to me
Well it came down to earth and it lit in a tree
I said please Purple People Eater, don't eat me
I heard him say in a voice so strong
"I wouldn't eat you 'cause you're Q anon"
It was a one-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
One-eyed, pedophile flyin' purple people eater
One-eyed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
Sure looks strange to me
I said Mr. Purple People Eater, what's your line?
He said "eatin' purple people and it sure is fine
But that's not the reason that I came to land
I want to rule the world and eat all the kids"
Well bless my soul, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
Pigeon-toed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
(We wear short shorts) democratic people eater
What a sight to see
And then it swung from the tree and it lit on the ground
And it started to eat, really eatin' fetus'
It was a crazy cannibal eatin' beast
(Sing a boop-boop, a-boopa lopa lum bam boom)
Well, bless my soul, pedophile flyin' purple people eater
Pigeon-toed, pedophile, flyin' purple people eater
"I like short shorts!" democratic people eater
What a sight to see
Well, he went on his way, and then what do ya know?
I saw him last night on a TV show
He was eatin babies, and was raping some kids
Playin' politics like Hillary Clinton
"Q Anon!"


it sounds like q-Anon is actually against abortion, Catholics, Jews, Islam, democrats, history, other races, trust in government and knowledge, however they have wackos who take it all litterally.
It sounds like a new internet flavor of the KKK.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 09:48 AM

Coming up this week: four evenings of GOP party bile and Trump vitriol, and while it is typical that a candidate mostly stays out of view until the last night (with small visits only), expect Trump to grab the mic every night. He can't help himself.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 02:16 PM

The more he shows himself the better. I know there is a hard core of people who actually adore him, but a large part of the minority of Americans who voted him in were surely holding their noses while voting for him for other reasons. There's only so long you can hold your nose.

One thing that makes me gasp is how such an extremely unpleasant man can dare to talk about anyone as being nasty. Surely being nasty is his "Unique Selling Proposition"?

Interesting to have confirmation now from his own big sister that he really is even nastier than he parades himself in public as being.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 06:24 PM

The context for the "big sister" assertion, in the previous post,
is supplied by this feature article from
Reuters in Washington, D. C.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 20 - 08:33 AM

Ok, 25!

Days till we can vote early and in person in Virginia.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 06:37 AM

I was really surprised that the GOP convention officialy announced there will be NO party platform anymore and to only follow the leader Donald Trump who is the 'bodyguard' of western civilization.
With a bodyguard like Trump, avoid all ramps.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 10:03 AM

I am currently reading the 1936 Sinclair Lewis novel It Can't Happen Here and the parallels are astonishing.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 11:14 AM

My dad made that required reading in my teens.
In a sense I failed to keep the scourge in the woodwork.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 03:35 PM

End the scourge - end the purge.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 05:49 AM

Adding a stamp to your postage paid ballot will force USPS to handle it as first class mail instead of bulk.   Pass the word.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 09:32 AM

It's a special case this year, which requires and justifies postal votes - but generally I don't like the idea much. Going along to stick your vote in a box in a polling station set up in a school or a pub seems a pleasant ritual.. (As for voting machines...)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 05:09 PM

Advice includes bring a chair, a picnic, comfy shoes. Anticipate loooong lines, in other words. They say bring water too but then you'll have to pee...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Aug 20 - 11:20 PM

Mrrzy: Take no chances. Stay hydrated and bring a "stadium pal"!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 05:10 AM

There is room for satire regarding election suppression tactics and long lines but be prepared to be attacked for it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 03:05 PM

Mine wasn't satire. I am reading those recommendations. I just added the advice about peeing.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 08:53 PM

Are there a lot fewer polling stations in the States than there are here in England? Where I live we had a turnout of 64% last time, and no queuing at all so far as I could see. I know you have a much more complicated set of votes than we ever do, but that would just need a few more voting booths than the two we've got in our local school. The number of potential voters doesn't increase even if it takes longer for each one to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Aug 20 - 10:21 AM

The number of *potential* voters doesn't change, but *actual* voting declines with long lines. For starters, polls close at a certain time, not when everyone in line has voted.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 20 - 09:15 PM

What I meant was that with enough local polling stations and enough voting booths in them there needn't be long lines, even with a high vote and long voting slips. The only reason for long lines is not enough polling stations and voting booth. It only makes sense if you're trying to reduce the number voting.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Aug 20 - 11:28 PM

"The Office of the Director of National Intelligence has informed us that it will no longer provide briefings to Members of Congress, including the House and Senate Intelligence committees, on foreign efforts to interfere in our upcoming election. This is a shocking abdication of its lawful responsibility to keep the Congress currently informed, and a betrayal of the public’s right to know how foreign powers are trying to subvert our democracy. This intelligence belongs to the American people, not the agencies which are its custodian. And the American people have both the right and the need to know that another nation, Russia, is trying to help decide who their president should be."

Politicus USA (if you look at the bottom of the firewall popup there is a small line that says "continue w/o supporting this time" to click on and expose the article.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 07:10 AM

Trump rationalizes that Congress can not be trusted because they leak and use video of the harrassed members of his administration by Democrats questioning his loyalists face to face.
He will still provide tweets or post it notes to Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 08:06 AM


In UK, anyone is allowed to vote who is in the queue for the polling station, as long as they join the queue before the polls close. In theory, if a very large number of voters turned up in the last few minutes, the voting could go on late into the night, and having been counting agent (scrutinising the count on behalf of the political [party I belong to) it is tiring and painful on the feet for the four-five hours it normally takes without having a couple hour extra added waiting for the late boxes to arrive.

With regards to your advice regarding queuing for hours, would an empty bottle be advised - sorry about lowering the tone of the conversation!!!

Look forward to hearing you again tonight. You are a superb story teller.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 09:46 AM

Mwah!

Meanwhile I am actually starting to worry about armed white supremacist Americans and this November.

But my anxiety remains in check.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 10:44 AM

Not sure if that would make Trump look very good in the eyes of the world media if he refused to condemn such an action is his favour, especially if this happens in pro-Democrat voting neighbourhoods in states that narrowly voted for Trump. Hard to see how he could spin that in his favour.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 11:02 AM

Trump doesn't care how anything he does looks, he just does what he thinks can mess up the opposition and get him another four years in office. At first it seemed like he was surprised at being elected and didn't want to stay, odds were he would resign in the early days. But once he got the hang of shoveling cash directly into his enterprise and doing things that make certain people praise him, he ignores the rest of it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 01:21 PM

Amy Rigby and Wreckless Eric have the right idea.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 05:14 PM

By satire I meant a rolling 'My voting buddy' combo chair kitchen bathroom designed to last hours in a slow pandemic voting line.
It comes up your armpits and has a HEPA filter air supply and mask.
It comes in red blue or purple.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 06:57 PM

That caravan of pro-Trump paramilitaries driiving in to Portland looked like a terrifying development, with so many parallels from other times and places. The TV pictures looked for all the world like the kind of thing we've seen in the early stages of Civil Wars.

What do we call them? Trumpshirts maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 09:59 PM

And thank you for that link, Backwoodsman. Very concise, eloquent and timely. And a real Mindworm!

Here's another link, with the words, which might be handy. All together then...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 01:40 AM

Thanks Kevin. I was attracted to folk music back in the Protest days, and I reckon that’s as good a Protest Song as any I’ve heard.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:02 AM

The western and mid western right wing militias are now in competition with each other. Some ride in pick up truck beds shooting mace and paintball guns into demonstrators. Some show up with live ammo. They are defending themselves and Trump, their excuser and chief.
Escalation will culminate in intensifying a fear of going to the polls.
They are correct in assuming they have most police on their side.
The use of the term civil war is discouraged and it is said that we are a country at war with itself. More blood will be shed as the election draws closer and Trump throws more troops into Portland and Chicago. It won't be as bad as you think but it could make Trump President for four more years as more nazi like folk heros are created and memorialized while ignoring the dead mad crazy democrats and blacks. At least stratigists like Steve Miller, McConnel, Bannon and Trump hope so.

Yesterday I watched from my parked car as a policeman in a cruiser detained an apparant vagrant and homeless black man and called for back up of two more police vehicles. There was no search or abuse but there was the appearance and fear by the police. Even a firetruck showed up but soon left the scene. It feels like things are on a hair trigger. Perhaps you didn't know the police can now call paramedics to administer 500 mg of Ketamine to suspects. It will be fatal to small people but only render larger people unconscious.
Things are moving just slow enough that Americans are getting used to it. It remains that Trump is the only one calling balls and strikes be it about violence or the pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:39 AM

Rather than civil war, it looks more lie state provocation towards a race war - as if the white supremacists are going beyond reversing what Obama achieved back to trying to rkeverse the social progression since the civil rights unrest. Trouble is it seems to be spreading over here. All it takes is insidious rhetoric by governments - eg May's 'Hostile Environment' to stir up race hate.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:46 AM

To cheer us up a little maybe, here's this elegant lyric from Australia
Which has a rather similar chorus

And here is another version of the same ditty.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:51 AM

Yes the UK has much to cheer about

in comparison

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 01:31 PM

In some ways. We've got the NHS, which is big thing. But the death rate from Covid 19 relative to population is actually still a bit ahead of that in the USA, though it won't be long before you are way ahead at the rate you are going.

And Boris Johnson isn't quire as outright evil as Donald Trump, but he's still a lazy and incompetent clown.

But at least nobody sees not wearing a mask as a political statement or a patriotic gesture. It may have helped that Boris Johnson, after boasting about shaking the hands of everyone when he visited at hospital, came down with Covid and very nearly died. It's a great pity that the same didn't happen to Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 02:43 PM

A Facebook investigation shows that Russian controled sites are targeting Americans to go to fake left wing websites. I do not facebook so I don't know what they say.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:13 PM

I live in Massachusetts,
where the state primary is this very day.
There will be drama.
A Kennedy scion running against
Senator Ed Markey,
whose background is that he was a US Representative for a long time.
Darned if I know who will defeat whom.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 20 - 06:20 AM

Shhh...Trump has stumbled and fallen and went to Walter Reed. Since then he has tweeted that he has not had a stroke. Nope no stroke here and protests too much that he has not had a mini stroke. His family history is sad for his father and his brothers regarding cause of death (Alzhiemers, Alcoholism and A stroke) but his mom lived to 93. Donald is probably just top heavy and as a result wobbly.

Biden's mom is alive and over 100 last I heard.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 08:57 PM

That last post I made was open to misunderstanding. The actual running daily death rate from Covid 19 in the UK is now down to 13 - which scaled up to the size of the USA would be equivalent to about 75 a day, somewhat lower than the actual figure of 1000 or so.

What I meant was, the total number of dead from Covid in the UK so far, where our 41,527 works out to more than the USA total to date if you adjust it for your population.

Of course the figure that is really significant here is the excess deaths, to allow for stuff like people dying from other things because they couldn't get help they needed, because of the Covid crisis. That's a good bit higher for both the UK and the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 09:45 PM

"The killed, injured and captured members of the armed services are all losers and suckers."

Let each republican leader explain that Trump quote.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 20 - 02:50 PM

The Trump faithful in their millions will believe him when he denies it. The leaders will pretend to believe him.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Sep 20 - 03:51 PM

I would take lazy and incompetent over what we have any day, with gravy.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 20 - 08:28 PM

As in someone like Boris Johnson? Up against Trump clearly you'd choose him. It's a bit hard to think of too many you wouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 04:08 PM

founding fathers sing

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 05:44 PM

I saw that video where a guy who voted republican last time said this time, if the dems ran a can of tomatoes, he'd vote for the can.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 01:10 AM

re excess deaths...how would you count, or would you, the people who did not die but probably would have. i think this is noted in australia, where flu deaths are way way down...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 05:14 AM

True enough - lots of side effects which did a little bit to set against the disastrous consequences. No traffic on the roads meant fewer road casualties, less pollution from planes. Nice quiet road behind my house which is normally deafening. Fewer hedgehogs flattened...

But overall a lot more people died. The UK government figures on August 20 had total extra deaths to date as 55,000, with 49,000 of those linked directly to Covid.
..............

Typical of Trump that when denying calling fallen soldiers "losers" and ¿suckers" he immediately moved on to talking about the money he claimed to have pushed in their direction. Thus confirming that he sees all these things in "transactional" terms. (And predictably enough, those claims were false.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Sep 20 - 07:23 PM

9 more days till I can vote. I can hold on that long.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 20 - 04:06 PM

Its been said in the land of the free
(to demonstrate)
and the home of the brave
( who stay home)
downplaying a pandemic is the worst thing to do.

The only panic came from being 'legally' shot in the streets.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 20 - 05:07 PM

It looks like out county mails the ballots to voters on September 19. I'll be watching to see if the post office mangles the delivery of them to our homes (I'm due to receive an absentee ballot, I filed a request to get one every time now that I am eligible as I have reached the age I have reached).

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 09:06 AM

I got a Please vote in person or absentee thing from the post office that had no false info on it.
Today is the Monday of the week I can vote on Friday. So if you look at it one way and squint, there are only three more whole not-yet days left.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 09:41 AM

"Don't Panic" is probably the most frightening phrase in the English language.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 09:28 PM

This is the man Trump put in charge of censoring the CDC
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/politics/caputo-virus.html

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 09:42 PM

Here's an excerpt if blocked

Mr. Caputo charged that scientists “deep in the bowels of the C.D.C.” walked “around like they are monks” and “holy men” but engaged in “rotten science.”

He fiercely defended his scientific adviser, Dr. Paul Alexander, who was heavily involved in the effort to reshape the C.D.C.’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports. Mr. Caputo described Dr. Alexander, an assistant professor at McMaster University in Canada, as “a genius.”

“To allow people to die so that you can replace the president is a grievous venial sin, venial sin,” Mr. Caputo said. “And these people are all going to hell. The shooting will begin if Biden does not concede”

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 06:42 AM

Armed insurrection if Biden wins is Trumps own rhetoric.

For people who work at the NIH they have noticed that CDC data comes in the same day every month for the last 28 years but lately the data could be 2 or 3 weeks late.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 08:19 PM

So Trump and allies are talking violent take over.
Let him declare war on America and nobody comes to fight.
Its probably happened before in history but I wouldn't know.
How embarrassing for the two guys who actually show up in DC to defend a deposed Donald.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 08:31 AM

does anyone feel will Bob Woodward's book on Trump have any effect on the election?

As is said in an article about the book - "there are many books on Trump, this is just another". And Captain Catstrophe allowed interviews because he thought he could sweet-talk a man of integrity.

Just another book? That people will sit up and take notice IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 08:38 AM

McGrath of Harlow, you reminded me of an old practical joke from the days before intercontinental phone calls, where you'd send a cable saying Ignore previous telegram all fine don't panic, which would of course panic the poor recipients.

One. More. Day.

I squint a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 10:06 PM

For the faithful it is all a witch hunt hoax, don't believe your eyes and everything except my tweets are the enemy of the people.
However the quote "I love to play it down, I'm still playing it down" is repeated often on TV.

In DC town the armory has stockpiled body armor piercing ammo, Gas explosion bass loud speaker crowd control weapons (they nauseate crowds) and microwave cannons, they call it a heat ray today.

I was exposed to the microwave cannon years ago and it immediately disabled me falling flat. Don't ask why.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 12:29 PM

I have voted. Yay. Took about an hour including the line, not bad.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 07:37 PM

Ruth Bader Ginsberg dies at 87.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 07:37 PM

We got the tax returns!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html

Lemme know if there's a paywall

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Sep 20 - 01:21 AM

Anybody want to play debate Bingo tonight?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Sep 20 - 01:30 AM

My mail-in ballot arrived today.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Sep 20 - 09:26 PM

Anybody watching this debate?!?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 03:36 AM

How did you guys think the debate went? From over here in the UK it seems your politics have sunk to the level of Staged "Entertainment"

Not that our lot are much better. But at least they can pretend to act with decorum!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 08:10 AM

Shambolic.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Neil D
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 11:28 AM

When the debate began I was actually watching the Cleveland Indians in the playoffs. When they went down 7-2 to the Damn
Yankees, I switched over to the debate. After 20 minutes of watching a rabid bully ignore all the rules of debate, of civility, of decorum, I went back to the game. But the score was now 12-2 and I said screw it, I'm going to Youtube.
The best comment on the debate came from Jake Tapper of CNN who called it a "hot mess, inside a dumpster fire, inside a trainwreck".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 02:09 PM

Ayup.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 02:34 PM

Yeah, it was all that because a certain ignorant, incompetent, racist, charlatan of a president wanted it to be all that. He had nothing to add of substance and his record is indefensible so rhetorical bomb throwing was his only option. Biden acquitted himself very well given the circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 06:15 PM

You have 350 million people and all you can present for election is these two utter incompetents. We can all hope that you can somehow deliver Joe for the safety and sanity of the world. But he allowed Trump to drag him into the swamp within minutes and he never recovered. That augurs very badly for us all even if Joe wins, which he almost certainly won't. Your politics is infantile, anti-democratic and is a threat to the planet. Otherwise, all ok. God help us.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 06:42 PM

Your election is coming up very soon. From 18 September, for nine days, there were no posts to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 06:31 AM

You people have a lot to be proud of over there, you sat on your hands while a bunch of racist moneygrubbers took you out of the EU and wrecked your kid's economic futures. I'll take Joe Biden over BoJo any day.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 07:12 AM

”You people have a lot to be proud of over there, you sat on your hands while a bunch of racist moneygrubbers took you out of the EU and wrecked your kid's economic futures. I'll take Joe Biden over BoJo any day.”

A substantial number of us didn’t ‘sit on our hands’ though, Gilly - we supported the Remain Campaign and spoke against that bunch of racist money grabbers’ lies, slogans, and sound-bites. But a very small majority were taken in by the Leave propaganda, and we lost. That’s democracy - very much the same way Agent Orange’s ‘MAGA’ nonsense persuaded the US to elect him.

But I completely agree with your point about Biden v. Johnson - FWIW, I’d take my dog over Johnson.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 07:14 AM

Sorry gillymor but if you can accuse me of assisting in the Brexit debacle then I think it is fair game to blame you for electing the Turnip. I did say earlier that our lot are not much better but at least they can pretend to act with decorum!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 07:15 AM

...well, apart from Cummings and Farage but theu were never elected

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 07:26 AM

I think you can come up with a few more exceptions than that, Dave. My previous post was in response to Steve. I wanted to point out that his high horse is just an anemic little pony. I've been following Joe Biden since he was my Senator in Delaware back in the '80's and I have the utmost respect for him as a politician and a human being.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 07:48 AM

On a more positive note, I dropped off my ballot at the county elector's office yesterday, the morning after the "debate" and had to wait to find a parking space and then stood in line for 5 minutes to get it certified, this more than a month before the election. The chatter was very much anti-trump which is unusual for this very conservative area. We're setting records for early voting in various parts of the country and Biden set a record after the debate, raising more than 10 million. I think we're moving into landslide country but we're going to have to fight to get our votes counted as the asshole has made it clear that he's not going to go quietly.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 08:10 AM

Looking in from the outside, I have to say that your voting system seems a convoluted, disjointed mess.

Here in the U.K., we have two ways to vote - we either go to a polling station on polling day and vote in person using the voting slip handed to us by the supervisor(s), or we elect to have a postal vote whereby we receive a voting slip and two envelopes, which we put in any post-box in time to arrive with the polling authority by the closing date.

Very simple, very effective.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 08:30 AM

You're quite right, BW. Our system for national elections is a dog's breakfast. There are different systems in every state which gives plenty of leeway for partisan interference. We need standardised laws and a stronger enforcement agency than the FEC as it's currently constituted but the guys who make the laws just don't want to give up their edge.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 08:48 AM

I fear for us. I fear particularly for January. And Charlottesville is a symbolic target for the new Nazis so I fear for us locally, nationally, and globally.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 09:05 AM

Trump's been hard at it trying to instill fear in American voters and preemptively delegitamize the outcome of an election that he knows he can't win by fair means. It's given me a lot of anxiety and I've dealt with it by volunteering for the local dems, signing on as a pollwatcher and making more donations to the cause than I can afford. It's gut check time for America, we have to decide if we want to continue as a country or just cravenly submit to becoming a trump-brand property.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 09:09 AM

I decided I'm going to vote in person. The numbers of people with Covid are low here, and the longest I ever waited was for Obama's first election, because a lot of people were just registering. I think it was about 15 minutes. The benefits of living in a small town.
I watched parts of the debate, the turned it off and waited for the re-caps. I wanted to get some sleep that night.

I hope there are plans for what happens AFTER the election.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 09:26 AM

I did not sit on my hands during the brexit campaign, thanks. And I would certainly take Biden over Johnson any day. In other words, I'd even take an insipid, hesitant old man over a fat blond disreputable clown. Your electoral college system is farcically undemocratic, as the last election showed. Clinton won the election easily but you gave us Trump via that system. And almost half of your electorate don't vote. Make the poor queue for hours to vote and they won't even leave home to go to the poll. Low turnouts always favour the party of the rich. You are almost not a democracy at all.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 11:22 AM

Just google "US polling queues," guys, and, if you don't already know about this (as all responsible yanks should), you'll be gobsmacked. And your electoral college: Florida has 29 electoral seats, the Republicans win in Florida by the skin of their teeth but the whole bloody lot go to Trump. Democracy in inaction and you accuse us Brits of sitting on our hands over brexit. Perhaps you should glance back over the many thousands of brexit posts and the bitter arguments here since 2015. Then reflect on the fact that the two massive threats to democracy in your country I've highlighted in this post hardly get discussed here. Perhaps you think there's nothing you can do about it. So you sit on your hands...?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 11:52 AM

I confess that I find this ‘Electoral College’ thing very confusing. What, exactly, is its purpose? I know its effect (for instance, in 2016, overturning the result produced by the ‘popular vote’), but what is its actual purpose? Why not just go with the Popular Vote result?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 01:08 PM

Let's try to focus on the subject, please.

---

Trolling/deliberately provoking an emotional reaction will be deleted. Play nice.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 02:02 PM

I have a lot of sympathy for Americans at election time. They have to vote for a hell of a lot of things all at once, while we lucky ducks of the Westminster tradition vote for one thing at a time.

A Canadian or British ballot in a national election is a piece of paper about six inches square, with four to six (or so, depending on how many crank parties are active) candidates’ names on it, family name first in alphabetical order, each with a clearly marked spot into which to put one’s X. Nothing else, and no write-ins. In case one is unclear on the concept of marking the ballot, there’s a handy-dandy graphic on the inside of the screen to show how it’s done.

An American ballot can be enormous, with candidates running for offices ranging from president to dog-catcher, many of them jobs that are done by civil servants in Canada or the UK. If that weren’t confusing enough, the ballot may also include referendum questions that the voter must parse on the spot. In our tradition, referenda and plebiscites are held separately.

And then there’s the whole voting machine thing. In Canada, the closest thing to a voting machine is a pencil on a string.

So, weird as it is, the Electoral College isn’t the wonkiest thing in US politics.

It’s worth noting that the British political system — and, with it, those of the Empire — was substantially over-hauled at least three times between the Great Reform Act of 1832 and the Statute of Westminster of 1931. The American system was based on a much clunkier European model, and has had less revision.

So be kind.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 02:11 PM

This is going to be a fight, probably the most important one of most people's lifetimes. Depending on your state it might be better to vote in person. I dropped off my mail-in ballot because Florida counts ballots when received but some states don't even open mail-ins until election day or evening. The GOP has an army of lawyers to contend mail-in ballots in swing states and we've got to get some in place to counter that. Barton Gellman, interviewed here, describes a nightmarish scenario of what might happen.The Election that Could Break America (he wrote an article with the same title that appeared in The Atlantic). I implore all Americans who are able to contact their local party and find out what you can do to help ensure a fair election. We obviously can't depend on the GOP to act in the interest of democracy, they sure haven't so far.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 03:27 PM

Charmion, one additional weirdity is that states' ways of voting differ. In NH, we get a paper ballot, mark choices with a pen, and shove it into a locked box. The boxes are then transferred to Concord (state capitol) and counted. Other states have machines (NY, where my mother voted does), and possibly different ways of counting paper ballots.
Personally, the reason for the electoral college is toast, and it adds a layer in the process that only serves to complicate things.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 04:39 PM

My understanding if the electoral college is that its original purpose was to give greater weight to some people's votes than others' - and as such ought to have been gotten rid of long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 04:59 PM

If that’s the case, Mrrzy, you’re absolutely correct.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 06:59 PM

I copied part of the Wikipedia article

The suitability of the Electoral College system is a matter of ongoing debate. Supporters argue that it is fundamental to American federalism, that increases the political influence of small states by the "plus two" Senate count over the number of state Representatives. The geographic dimension of the Electoral College requires candidates to appeal to voters outside large cities. Parties must form national coalitions with moderating appeals, contributing to stability of the two-party system.[6] Presently, a decisive choice for president is made without the challenges and recounts in every state that would follow a nationwide popular vote.[7]

Critics argue that the Electoral College is less democratic than a national direct popular vote and is subject to manipulation because of faithless electors.[8][9] Opponents argue that the system is antithetical to a democracy that strives for a standard of "one person, one vote" because it can thwart a presidential choice by the voters with a national majority.[10] There can be elections where one candidate wins the popular vote but another wins the electoral vote, as in the 2000 election and 2016 election.[11] Individual citizens in less populated states with 5% of the Electoral College, have proportionately more voting power than those in more populous states,[12] and candidates can win by focusing their resources on just a few “swing states”.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 08:50 PM

Nothing to boast about in the British voting system, where the winning party pretty well never gets anywhere near a majority of the votes, typically around 35% of the total vote, and on occasion fewer votes than the runner up. But it is simpler than the way they do it in the States. Mostly by dispensing with any pretensions to democracy when it comes to most things.

But there are far fewer possibilities for unscrupulous local or national politicians to subvert the process, which is the threat looming over America now. And in a real way, looming over the whole world.

As for Biden, whatever flaws he's got, the crucial point is, he's not Trump. I find it virtually impossible to imagine anyone short of Hitler I wouldn't choose over Trump. Boris Johnson, Margaret Thatcher, Nixon...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 10:28 PM

Both of our countries are pretty bad at voter turn-out, I believe.
I notice that for Brexit, leave won over stay by a little over 1,000 votes, and about 13,000 people didn't vote. I don't know the figures for our 2016 election, and each state was different, but I'd guess we were even worse.

Part of me wishes voting was mandatory. All of me wishes it were easier for everybody

---

Correction: add a "," and "000".
So it's stay won by 1,000,000, and 13,000,000 didn't vote. (rounded)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 01:41 AM

I think your numbers are off by a factor of a thousand there, Jeri - should be a 1million majority, and 13 million non-voters.

I agree about our system, Kevin - I would prefer a system of PR here myself - but I still believe that the mechanics of voting are simpler in the U.K. than the US, and less open to manipulation. A perfect example of the shit-show of US election malpractice can be seen here...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 03:47 AM

Anyone else think, as I do, that this Covid stunt might be a way of Agent Orange avoiding making a cockwomble of himself on future debates the way he did a few nights ago? Or perhaps even an attempt to get the Election postponed (is that allowed under your Electoral regime?)?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:19 AM

As I understand it'd be possible to delay the election, but that would need both houses of Congress to approve it. And whatever happens this term of presidency ends on January 20.

If Trump were to die before the election date what's the legal position regarding the election?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:36 AM

I suppose this is what they call an "October Surprise".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 09:19 AM

Backwoodsman, you're right. I mistook a comma for a period. (From here)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:35 AM

Easily done, Jeri!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:52 AM

I just checked with the county board of electors and my vote has been counted. It's sad that that diseased monster has caused so much anxiety amongst the electorate but at least it's got people on their toes.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:58 AM

Copied and pasted from Michael Moore’s FaceBook page because I prefer to protect the identity of the person who shared it...no comment necessary, AFAIC.

”So Now Trump Has Earned Your Trust? A Note of Covid Caution from Michael Moore....

There is one absolute truth about Trump: He is a consistent, absolute, unrelenting, fearless, and professional liar. A serial liar. A factually proven liar. How many lies now has the Washington Post proven in these four years? 25,000? A lie at least twice during every waking hour? Think of all the bad people you’ve known in your life. Even the worst ones you couldn’t say that about.

So why on earth would we believe him today? Has he earned your trust now? No. Yet, we’re decent enough to not want him to be sick, to wish him well, and maybe just this once give him the benefit of the doubt because why would he lie about this?

That’s not the question. The question we — and yes, I mean you, too, the media — the only question we really need to be asking is this: Why would Trump all of a sudden just start telling the truth?

All of you, my friends, have been saying for four years, “Trump’s a liar! Trump is a liar!” Why would you believe him now? He very well may have COVID-19. In fact, let’s assume he does. Of course he has it! Does that make him not Trump? I’m certain Mussolini came down with the flu one time. Pinochet and Franco would catch a cold every now and then. Margaret Thatcher must have had a migraine or two. None of them suddenly became nice or did good things - or started telling the truth - because they got sick. Jesse Helms with a runny nose was still Jesse Helms.

But Trump has a history of lying about his health. His longtime New York doctor, Dr. Bornstein, admitted a few years ago that Trump dictated his perfect “doctor’s letter” during the 2016 campaign. Then there was the White House doctor who said Trump could live “200 years!” What about his lying about that emergency trip to Walter Reed “to complete his physical?” Trump also has a history of lying about his opponents’ health (like when Hillary fell ill at the 9/11 remembrance ceremony, or what he’s now been saying about Biden’s health).

So we must be skeptical. We must always remain skeptical when it comes to Trump. He may have it. But it’s also possible he’s lying. That’s just a fact.

But why would he lie about this? What would he have to gain? I mean, it looks bad that he’s called it a hoax for seven months, and he totally mismanaged the government response — and now he has it? Doesn’t it look terrible that he’s spent months downplaying wearing masks, dismissing social distancing, holding large rallies filled with elderly, at-risk supporters and even killing his own supporters like Herman Cain? And doesn’t this go against his brand of always projecting (and exaggerating) his own strength, his health, his genetics, his virility? Yes. This is all true. He would not want to admit he‘s come down with a hoax.

But — he’s losing the election. And he knows it. It’s not 2016. He was hated in 2016, but he’s hated even more now. Millions of Americans are ON FIRE and on the verge of serving him up a major league ass-whooping and a record landslide defeat.

So he needs - badly - to totally change the conversation about this campaign.

And he just has.

Democrats, liberals, the media and others have always been wrong to simply treat him as a buffoon and a dummy and a jackass. Yes, he is all those things. But he’s also canny. He’s clever. He outfoxed Comey. He outfoxed Mueller. He outfoxed 20 Republicans in the GOP primary and then did the same to the Democrats, winning the White House despite receiving fewer votes than his opponent. He’s an evil genius and I raise the possibility of him lying about having COVID-19 to prepare us and counteract his game. He knows being sick tends to gain one sympathy. He’s not above weaponizing this.

He’s been lying about how soon a vaccine will be ready. What better way to hammer home that lie then by directing a saga in the final weeks before the election that culminates in the release of this “vaccine.”

The NY Times tax story was horrible for him. As was The Atlantic story about him calling American troops losers and suckers. There are a dozen more of these stories coming in October. Just last night, The New Yorker detailed how his campaign finance director (and Don Jr’s girlfriend) was fired from Fox News for....well...behaving like a typical Fox News host by sexually harassing her assistant and forcing Fox to pay a $4 million settlement to that assistant due to her behavior. And also, last night, there was CNN playing an audio recording of Melania talking shit about children separated from their parents at the border — AND talking shit about Christmas. Christmas!

These stories are about to be a daily occurrence. However, they may get less airtime and be less damaging since Trump and FLOTUS are now “sick” and supposed to be in our thoughts and prayers.

But most dangerously, HE MAY USE THIS TO PUSH FOR DELAYING/POSTPONING THE ELECTION. The constitution does not allow for this, but he doesn’t give a f*ck about the constitution. He and his thug Attorney General Barr have no shame and will stop at nothing to stay in power. He may even use this as an excuse for losing.

Then there’s this:

He may use his Covid as a pretext to drop out of the race and move Pence to the top of the ticket. Pence would temporarily become President, and then Pence could pre-emptively pardon Trump for all of his crimes.

Again, though, he may have COVID. He probably does. But never, ever, ever take him at his word and never, ever, ever underestimate his survival skills or the depths of his deception or his evil.

What can YOU do today? Make your plan to vote and stick to it. Question everything. And if you and I are finally convinced he has it, do NOT sit silent as he schemes how to use this illness for his benefit.

Finally, on a personal note: Stay alive Mr. President. Your exit from public life must happen in the right and decent way. You have many years to live. You have a child to raise. Grandchildren who need you. A base that loves you. And the families of nearly the quarter-million dead who might be alive today had you done your job, had you cared, had you not played politics with people's lives. Over 200,000 lost souls — and YOU KNEW! You told Woodward in February it was a plague. 200,000 dead because of decisions you made, because you denigrated science and ignored the doctors.

I’m certain you’re listening to them now.

Covid must not remove you. That’s our job. With a pen and a ballot.”

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 11:47 AM

If the President becomes incapacitated (as in dead), the Vice President assumes his duties. Then. the Speaker of the House (Nancy Pelosi) gets the job. After that, Chuck Grassley, then Mike Pompeo.

Yay, Google.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 01:33 PM

Not that simple, Jeri!

Details here and here among others.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 02:39 PM

We all know trump is a lying arsehole.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 03:08 PM

At least not wearing a mask was consistent with what we all knew about Trump - that he is a barefaced liar.

I like Michael Moore, but I can't see how there could be any positive outcome for Trump from a faked Covid-19, even with Biden turning down the Trump knocking rhetoric. There will be Trump's true believers who will no doubt see it as a reason to redouble their idolatry, but it makes no difference to their vote. But there'll bet those who were planning to maybe vote for him who are going to be shaken by the sheer arrogance and stupidity made so blatantly clear.

If it did come to switching Pence to the top of the ticket the question would arise those who havealready voted for Trump. How could tgey be counted as going for Pence? There will be many of them for whom loyalty to Trump was a very personal thing, and who would have neverbeen likely to vote for Pence. Shouldn't all early votes forTrumpbe liabletobevoidedif theirman

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 08:06 AM

So trump has covid 19 - our thoughts are with the virus!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 08:32 AM

Pence is pictured mask-less in the front row of that Rose Garden event two Saturday's ago and should have been in quarantine since he learned of the numerous infected attendees . Although he's tested negative since he can still be a carrier yet he's going to participate in the V.P. debate on Wednesday and attend a rally on Thursday. As much as I'd like to see former prosecutor Kamala Harris carve him out a new one on his record as head of the COVID response team, his attendance is completely irresponsible.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 07:12 AM

Last night's VP debate reminded me that flies gravitate to a lying, steaming turd. Pence had no defense for trump's, and his own, abysmal record on the virus, the economy, healthcare and immigration so he spewed lies and misinformation about Biden.
Harris, while evasive at times and perhaps she wasn't as aggressive as she could have been on the pathetic trump/pence virus response and trump's taxes, projected a clear, calm demeanor, the kind you'd hope to see in a U.S. President. She did deliver a hammer blow when she characterized trump's non-response to the virus as the biggest presidential failure in history.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 07:43 AM

and shockingly, but not surprisingly, Pence wouldn't say wether or not he'd support a peaceful transfer of power.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 09:22 AM

I'd forgotten about what was probably the most powerful moment of the evening-

They're coming for you- The Guardian

Note Susan Page, who I admire, trying to cut off Harris while for most of the evening she was letting Pence ramble on past his time limit.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 09:35 AM

One of the analysts on MSNBC said he counted how many times Page tried to stop Pence by saying "Thank you Mr. Pence" or "Thank you vice president" and he just talked over both women, though she tried to stop him more than 100 times. There was a lot of mansplaining going on there - he talked over the top of them because that's what he's learned from Trump. The decibels may have been lower but the lack of answers and the disregard for the process were still there.

No one will change their mind after that debate.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 09:43 AM

A snap CNN poll has been split by gender.

For men, Harris marginally won by 48% to 46%
For women, Harris dramatically won, by 69% to 30%

Mansplaining is not a good tactic, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 10:31 AM

I think Ms. Page should have been more forceful, Chris Wallace should have as well at the Prez debate, or at least been given a mute button to use with discretion. My main takeaway from the evening is that Sen. Harris demonstrated to any one that wasn't aware of it that she is ready to step in as President if called upon and that Pence is just a trump toady who will say anything and adopt any position to please his boss, but we already knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 01:24 PM

One more long-weekend holiday before the national election,
and where I am staying,
plenty of tourist traffic thanks to the warm pleasant weather.


The Trump people, particularly a group calling themselves
Seniors For Trump!,
have stationed themselves with picket signs and waving flags
on the highway curb where they will be highly visible,
such as, across the street from the MacDonald's branch
by the exit ramp from the Mass Turnpike (I-20).
One of the flags is the Don't Tread On Me rattlesnake flag.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 02:48 PM

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 03:57 PM

Trump nonsense plays out in the mask-wearing world. I had to get some dogfood today and Tractor Supply on the weekend is nothing like during the week. While I was there three men walked in, not even pretending to wear masks, straight into the store, and one of the clerks left his mask way down below his nose. I told the clerk who served me I'd be ordering mail order from now on. I wish this food was sold elsewhere, I'd try my luck with a different store.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 04:24 PM

FREE REGENERON MONO CLONAL ANTIBODY TREATMENT FOR ALL !
Promised Trump today.

Whats next? A codicil limiting free treatment for 20 years or his term as President, which ever comes first. A 5% discount at all Trump golf courses? Free AK 47 ammunition for Michigan residents?

A Trump promise is like a wet moldy loaf of Bread and a WWF Circus on TV.

I wonder what the rare mono clonal treatment costs?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 02:13 PM

I'm off to Truro tomorrow. I shall be sporting my Dump Trump badge just in case I bump into a yank or three.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 02:56 PM

Sounds picturesque. We have a gorgeous beach town Truro in Cape Cod. You have a better cathedral.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 04:57 PM

paddy power has biden 2 to 5 on to win. trump is trailing at 15 to 8

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 08:19 PM

I now have three badges on my Mountain Warehouse gilet: an enamel EU circle of stars one, my membership pin of the Royal Meteorological Society and my Dump Trump badge. Any more and I'll develop a forward stoop. Once Trump gets kicked out I'll replace that one with my "This is what a trade unionist looks like" badge.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 09:47 PM

3 weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 10:15 PM

The big question now is what will happen when Trump loses?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 01:24 AM

Once Biden is sworn in he can have Trump removed, but what kind of chaos will happen from Nov. 4 to January 19 is truly frightening.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 02:03 AM

Won’t your ‘well-regulated militia’ swing into action, as required by their revered 2A?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 02:43 AM

mind you its not over till the fat laddie sings

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 09:30 AM

A fortnight

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 09:59 AM

The media drives most stuff that happens. "This is what you should care about." If they quit covering Trump, there won't be much going on...except on Fox "News".

In other words, do you know what's going on with the Portland Oregon protests currently, or do you think that's over with?

And if anything prompts me to go buy a gun, it's the Trump crazies, but so far, I resist.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 10:56 AM

Gun sales are up 150%

I just had a 'Go Fund Me' idea regarding an unofficial Trump memorial statue of a heavenly golden golf bag containing broken golf clubs with a bronze plaque saying:
"In loving memory to Donald J Trump from immigrant parents, gay lesbian, transgender, advocates of diversity, Covid victims and patriots of democracy - for his timely passing."
The golf bag and each club is labeled TRUMP.

I would like to see it on Obama Plaza at the Trump tower or as a replacement for the defiant young lady that will sadly soon be removed from the Wall street statue site of the Raging Bull.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 02:19 PM

I am honestly dreading to discover
who the Republicans have in mind
to step in when Trump goes down.

And don't tell me that
the Republicans aren't planning on Trump going down,
because, no doubt,
some of the Republicans are doing just that.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 02:53 PM

Really? The bull artist won?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 05:59 AM

Don't be complacent, US friends. At our last general election the polls had the parties pretty close but the populist right wing by a landslide. We are now suffering the consequences. I hope it doesn't happen to you.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 06:10 AM

I don't know what it means but 2 major internet fiber cables in the DC metro area have been cut. One in VA on the last day of voter registration and yesterday one in MD was cut.
Also the postal police have been ordered to stand down for 2 weeks.
There is no protection for mail carriers , mail boxes or ballot drop boxes. There will be no postal security until after the election.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 10:26 AM

Yikes on postal police about whom I had never heard till researching Donuel's claim above.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 07:53 PM

This is not your typical tweedle dee or tweedledumb choice this election. It is more like his excellency Dungmold J Trounce vs. citizen Joey. Ignorant bullies will unite behind their like minded Fuerer. Yes this includes police who were drawn to the bully force in the first place. I have heard a Police Captain in an unguarded moment and he sounded like a mini Turdp and confused insult with power. We have seen a rethinking of our civil war and its monuments. Trump will not be forgotten but will become a martyr for terrorists as long as the 1865 civil war rememberance and will remind the haters how close they got to a 4th Reich. Its not over for a long time and the past has not passed.
Yes Mrrzy I am capable of more than parroting facts. I can do parody, editorializing, opinion, historical resemblance and epic cartoons.
It burns Joe O's toast but thats the way the kook e-crumbles.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 09:37 AM

Oh, I know, Donuel. You are capable of parroting all kinds of things, including facts [big grin]!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:38 PM

The court cases to do with how and when to count ballots, to let them come in for X number of days after election (if postmarked in time), the number of drop-off points, the FAKE drop-off boxes, it's an embarrassment. We need the voting rights bill updated and restored to its former status.

NY Times article from last year about the attempt to restore it.

“Selma is still now!” thundered Representative Terri A. Sewell, Democrat of Alabama, the chief sponsor of the measure, during debate on the measure on the floor. “I know I’m not the only black and brown colleague of ours who owes their very presence in this chamber to the Voting Rights Act passed in 1965.”

Republicans, for their part, argued that the bill would trample on states’ ability to dictate their own election rules by abusing measures in place to prevent voter disenfranchisement.

“The bill before us today would turn those federal shields that protect voters into political weapons,” said Representative Doug Collins of Georgia, the top Republican on the House Judiciary Committee, adding that the legislation would do so “when there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that those states or localities engaged in any discriminatory behavior when it comes to voting.”

The debate underscored the deep partisan polarization that has taken hold on issues related to voting and elections in recent years. In 2006, the last time the Voting Rights Act was updated, the measure passed overwhelmingly in the House, where large majorities of both parties supported it, unanimously passed the Senate, and was signed into law by a Republican president, George W. Bush.

On Friday, just one Republican, Representative Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania, voted “yes.”

In the Shelby case, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote that Congress remained free to try to impose federal oversight on states where voting rights were at risk, but must do so based on contemporary data. The measure passed on Friday was an attempt to do just that.

Specifically, it would update the parameters used to determine which states and territories need to seek approval for electoral procedures, requiring public notice for voting changes and expanding access for Native American and Alaska Native voters.

But it is unlikely to come to a vote in the Senate, where Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, has refused to take up most legislation championed by House Democrats.

2018 and 2020 can be used as illustrations as to why the bill is needed more than ever before. And Stacy Abrams can become the Voting Tsar when Biden takes office in January, 2021.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 05:31 PM

10.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Oct 20 - 09:07 AM

Oops miscounted. 8.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Oct 20 - 09:26 AM

It is no longer "election day," it's the end of the Election Season. For which we all will be grateful, if people have come to their senses.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 05:14 PM

... but the thing is,
election day will not be the end --
it will be the beginning of a counting period,
and with all the complications and ways it could be messed up,
who knows how long it will take
before an acceptable final count is announced?
Will it be weeks, or mere days?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 05:52 PM

My son got an Ohio notification that his mail in ballot has been disqualified for a lack of information. It said it could be corrected by Nov 15 but did not say if voting in person is an option.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM

You should be able to find a local office to call. If it were me, I'd vote in person. The mail-in vote wasn't registered, so I be it'd work.

Just on CNN, they were saying Trump may try to limit the COUNTING of votes to not after election day. I don't know if he can do that, but he owns the Supreme court now. I personally think it's likely not going to matter.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 06:16 PM

He can't do that. He just thinks he can do that.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 06:20 PM

Of course he can do that. Remember Bush?

6!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 06:27 PM

I don't know how "remember Bush" applies to this.
I'd like to believe he can't do it, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility, and the country's batshit crazy just now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 09:47 PM

Republican Lawyers argued to stop the count and recount.
It was so ruled.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 10:15 PM

The mistake Gore made was recounting just a couple of counties in Florida, if he'd asked to recount the entire state things would have been different. It wouldn't have been viewed as cherry-picking.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 10:57 PM

I would amend the US Constitution to rely
upon the popular vote on the 4th of July.

Primaries in January

voter obstruction will be
punished by incarceration

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 04:16 AM

I see our shit-stirer in chief, Nigel Farage, and the loathsome Katie Hopkins have been in the US to support the Turnip.

Can you keep them please?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 07:34 AM

The US procedures for elections is clearly a total shambles, not fir for purpose. How is it possible for figures about numbers of votes for particular candidates to be released until the complete vote is finished? So you get declarations about who has won in advance of the vote having been finished? It's the voting system of a banana republic.

Is there anybody determined to reform this corrupt process?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 11:21 AM

Don't insult banana republics so.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 05:01 PM

Since the days of Diebold national elections and obstruction vote manipulation has not exceeded 10%. With all the post office games its not likely to be worse than 10% regionally. Putin's favorite insight is that the winner of an election is only up to those who count the votes. In America the manipulation of the vote count is not as bad as you think.
The assault on US voting is primarily getting to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 07:23 PM

I'm gonna take my horse to the polling place
Gonna make sure my country's in the global race
Gonna wait in line till I can't no more
Gonna make my vote like I did for Gore

I'm gonna ride my horse past A R 15's
Past guys making sure that they look cold and mean
Gonna wait a month for the last result
While lil donnie trump makes his last insult

OO-OOOO-O OOO

They call the wind 'the liar'
They say it says 'you're fired'


Gonna face next year with a cup of Joe
Gonna hope the nazis will decide to go.
They got lots of friends in the pen today
Along with all the ass holes in the KKK

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 10:38 AM

How is it that you have so few places you can vote that people have to stand in a line for hours?

We have a higher percentage of people voting than you do in the States, and we don't have advance voting, it's on the day, if you don't use a postal vote, which I never have, and I've never had to wait more than a few minutes to vote in my life. Normally it's just walk in with no waiting.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 11:16 AM

Only 2 people allowed in at a time for covid reasons. Usually about 25 people can vote at a time. That is one reason. Plus they are disinfecting between voters. That is another reason. So instead of 25 people voting roughly every 30 seconds, 50 per minute, 300 per hour we have 2 people voting roughly every 3 minutes, 8 people per hour. Or so.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 11:42 AM

I early voted by paper scan. 4 minute wait, smooth as silk.
However I did not know how to pay $4 for 15 minutes of parking at rhe community garage.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 09:23 AM

The day after tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 12:15 PM

In UK, as long as someone joins the queue before the polling station closes, they can still vote. Is this the same in US?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 03:59 PM

Its the same.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 05:48 PM

It is being reported Trump may well declare victory before the mail-in votes are counted if he has a good lead on the in-person votes in most of the swing states. While this would have no legal validity, he can of course do it, on Twitter and elsewhere. What happens then, in your opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 07:16 PM

"Only 2 people allowed in at a time for covid reasons. Usually about 25 people can vote at a time. That is one reason. Plus they are disinfecting between voters. That is another reason. So instead of 25 people voting roughly every 30 seconds, 50 per minute, 300 per hour we have 2 people voting roughly every 3 minutes, 8 people per hour. Or so.'

This is an excuse and I think you know it. Queueing to vote for hours in your country is time-honoured, especially in areas where there are lots of poor voters or black voters, the people who would most likely overwhelmingly vote democrat. That seems like a pretty deliberate ploy. "Covid" has nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 07:52 PM

Statistics about how many people can vote in X time period need to specify whether that is per machine or in one voting site. When we vote in person, there are about 12 booths in the room, with 2-3 tabulating machines to feed then into.

Once again I emphasize that the biggest problem with our elections... besides the outmoded electoral college... is that individual states can set times, days, registration rules, I.D. rules, etc..etc. that make fairness a matter of who runs that state's system.

   Our country grew gradually over a couple of centuries when special circumstances dictated how things were done. Now, communication and travel make it possible to put every state on a similar, if not identical, system of registration and voting.
*IF* the electoral college were gone, every citizen would have an equal say in who was president! Having 6-8 states determine the winner every 4 years is absurd!! I am sick of fretting about Florida and Ohio every time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 08:43 PM

I fully share your frustration, Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 09:22 PM

States are gradually displacing the Electoral College by declaring how their representatives may vote (winner take all or proportional - more are going to proportional).

Queueing to vote for hours in your country is time-honoured, especially in areas where there are lots of poor voters or black voters, the people who would most likely overwhelmingly vote democrat. That seems like a pretty deliberate ploy. "Covid" has nothing to do with it.

SARS-Cov-2 has a great deal to do with the delays now, and the GOP representatives who have reduced the number of poling places and who are trying to cheat to win have made it a lot worse. What is needed is a new version of the Voting Rights Act that was cancelled in the Bush administration, allowing all of the nonsense that is happening now. A new act would again allow federal oversight and stop the state party folks meddling.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 03:54 AM

A timely reminder, for anyone who has yet to vote...

Robb:Arrowsmith - ‘God and the Orange Clown’

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 04:11 AM

States are gradually displacing the Electoral College by declaring how their representatives may vote (winner take all or proportional - more are going to proportional)

Unfortunately, doing this gradually causes problems as well. Suppose you win a state with 12 seats by a fair but not huge margin, and I only just win a state with 10. On the winner takes all, you get power with a 2 seat advantage. If they both are proportional, you get say 7 of yours, and I get 5. As I only just won mine, we get 5 each, and again you win with a 2 seat advantage. But if yours is proportional and mine is 'winner takes all', I get 5 of yours and 10 of mine, and end up with an 11 vote lead to take into the college.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 07:11 AM

The States that have a winner take all electoral votes rule instead of a proportional vote is a Republican invention.
I think 11 states have such a undemocratic winner take all rule.
The history of the electoral collge is eye opening.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 10:07 AM

It is not an excuse, there is nothing to be excused. It is a simple and obvious reason why lines are longer [not even counting the social distancing] than last time.

But not as long as when I went to vote for Obama the first time.

Tomorrow, tomorrow... You're only a day aawaaaaaaay

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 12:39 PM

Voter obsruction makes for longer lines especially in mixed or black areas.

Wait a month for certified results. Tommorow Trump declares victory and then starts his rigged election show with an army of lawyers.

If it goes to the supream court for a third time to decide the election he promised that his newest judge will elect him.

If he wins:

the campaign to criminalize the democratic party and make the country a one party nation will begin.

He will introduce an enabling act that will cement a legal dictatorship just like you know who.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 12:52 PM

PT Barnum predicted a TRUMP WIN
"There's a sucker born every minute"

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:28 AM

Just seen a FB post, “Go Trump!”, from a Friend in TX who also happens to be my ex-boss.

He’s history now, in every way. Disappointed, but not really surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:42 AM

Ok we have climbed the ladder, now for the chute.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:51 AM

I took my car in for work earlier, and have a loaner. I still need to go vote, but I needed coffee to do that. The moved the polling place. I'm guessing they needed to space things out more.

I anticipate (I hope for) a Biden win, and a whiney little baby reaction from Trump. Otherwise, it's just going to be interesting.

I remember that Nixon had staunch defenders right up until he resigned, and the truth came out. Good people admitted yeah, he really HAD been a crook. And then, there were some (Roger Stone?) who liked that he'd been a crook.

Even if Trump wins, if the House remains the same, and the Senate flips, he'll be fairly impotent. But he needs to go play golf for the rest of his life, however long that may be.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:51 AM

Ignorant UK dweller here. I know that if Biden becomes president-elect he does not become the actual President until January next year. Is that also true of Senators? They are elected today/tomorrow/whenever, but when do they actually take their Senate seat? Is that January as well?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:07 AM

The senate is sworn in on Jan 3, so the damage Trump can do (with partners in crime) is until then. His executive orders and such can continue up to when Biden is sworn in.

I expect a lot of flouncing around in anger, a total refusal to even pretend to be productive, and possibly Trump "pardoning" himself and leaving the White House to Pence. I predict that Trump will never concede, but I sure as hell hope that Twitter closes his account and doesn't let him have a new one.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:22 AM

Trump is less like Andrew Jackson and most like Andrew Johnson including impeachment and the record 29 Vetos, racism and hate.
Stilly is right about 2 months of mischief and payback.

Biden has learned to not make Gore's mistake of withdrawing or backing down.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:28 AM

Ex President Andrew Johnson did win one more election but as a Senator.
Senator Trump from Florida???

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:42 AM

If the split-electoral-college vote system used by Maine and Nebraska had been in use for all States in the last few elections, and the popular vote had been exactly the same, it would only have changed the result one time - Romney would have won in 2012. And Bush and Trump would both have still been elected President having had fewer popular votes.

So it wouldn't necessarily have solved much. (Of course the change might have altered the voting pattern, since "swing states" wouldn't be the only significant ones any longer.).

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:46 AM

Last night on Lawrence O'Donnell, this guy predicted a Democratic win in both houses of Congress and the presidency. He thinks there will be about a 10 member gain on the House and at least a majority in the Senate. He says it is possible there will be a very large electoral college win for Biden. O'Donnell says Cook is the premiere election analyst in the country.

Nevertheless, I bought extra beer yesterday..........

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:49 AM

detailed analysis

---

Cook Political Report (very reputable)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 11:00 AM

I might click on your link, but is there a reason you didn't name "this guy"? O'Donnell is hard for me to take.

I said it a while ago (to I-don't-know-whom), I think the election results will be a number of degrees greater than a landslide. I think it will be big enough tonight for as-yet-uncounted write ins to not make a difference. I think it will be big enough so a whiney "they stole the election" Trump can't possibly be taken seriously.

Or maybe I'm just hoping. I think his rallies/his shows involve followers who are loud and fanatical, but not large in number. I hope.

I have too much tying me to this country to move to Canada, but they won't let me in, anyway. Don't think I haven't thought about it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 12:11 PM

It was just a hurried post... **Charley** Cook.

Lawrence O'Donnell is an extremely knowledgeable expert on how the Senate works, and a virulent critic of Trump... and he follows Maddow.
I can find personal idiosyncrasies in any of the hosts/commentators I watch, but that's why I follow a wide assortment.
Maddow explains the same point 9 different ways until I yell at the screen.."Yes, Rachael, I've got it!" but WOW, how she and her excellent staff find stuff that no one else does!
O'Donnell generalizes and stretches his metaphors until I'm glad he isn't a Republican.
   Joy Reid, not surprisingly, overdoes Black issues and guests... but IS accurate and quick to see thru a bad argument.
   Chris Hayes talks a mile a minute and asks compound-complex questions that often include what answer he expects.

On CNN, Wolf Blitzer plods thru news like he never had an original thought. But he does know a lot...

   Anderson Cooper, like several CNN anchors, pretends to be fair & neutral by having some **conservative** pundit on..like Rick Santorum, who has so many flaws that I suspect that's why he's there... to be a bad example.
   Chris Cuomo is pretty good, but has little sense of humor...

Fareed Zakaria is excellent, but is not on daily.

MSNBC has many 'hosts' they are constantly switching around and 'testing' on late night and weekends, with some pretty good ones, like Jason Johnson....

,,,and I STILL miss Aaron Brown who disappeared years ago. I think he was considered to be boring, but he was good!

I extract what I can from all these people, and even occasionally switch to Fox when there's an important story, just to see how they're spinning it!

News junkie? Me? shucks, I remember H. V. Kaltenborn, Eric Sevareid and Edward R. Murrow!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: pdq
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 12:32 PM

As far as the Senate, the Republicans will lose Colorado and the Democrats will lose Alabama.

After that, few seats are really in play despite the media hype.

No, seats in Texas, Montana, Iowa, South Carolina, Kentucky and Georgia were never in danger.

Arizona and Maine will probably be flipped to Democrat.

North Carolina is likely to stay Republican but it will be a close call.

At best the Dems can get to 50/50. 51/49 Republican majority is my official guess.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 06:14 PM

Wow everyone is making informed predictions. Could anyone get a perfect score?

Eric Severide and Murrow were great to listen to. Murrow was easier for me to understand.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 07:22 PM

Bill, most of the folks you named are ok. I like Rachel, I like Joy Reid. The other MSNBC hosts irritate me in some way. (Which they can't do anything about.) I just turned from MSNBC to CNN, because of the idiotic "we're so excited" music, which on year, was so loud, you couldn't hear the person talked. Every election, for at least 8 years. I wish they'd just cut the music out and let people talk. Of course, that may just be my own personal bugaboo.

Biden's ahead in NH. (Does it matter that it's <1% of the vote? I was afraid we'd go for whatshisname.

So, do I stay up until the results are mostly in? I can go for 3 days. (Well, I COULD. I'm too much of a wimp now.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 07:30 PM

I don't know what's gonna happen.
Emotionally I'm with Bill D. and Jeri.

Walked to my polling place in the dark and they had the place all prepared for Covid-19 spacing and relatively cheery. Folks were well behaved and happy to be there. There were a variety of circular "I voted" stickers to put on your coat (it was 20 degrees F and clear) including a colorful depiction of an Eskimo woman banging a drum.

Later while dog walking a car drove up to the park with a big magnetic sign with the name of a local woman running in my district. As the driver got out I asked him if he was on her campaign. "I'm her husband!" "Well, I voted for her!" Frankly, even in this environment, I suspect Anchorage, Alaska will come out straight Conservative on every ballot choice. Opposite my votes, but we'll see.

My dog walking partner has heard me describe how four years ago I sat in a Chinese restaurant under the television set and watched the world turn bad. So everytime I talk about getting Chinese food tonight I've been getting a round of "Don't you WANT us to win?". Another acquaintance spread it around that they wouldn't vote for anyone. So I left them a message: "I've never convinced anyone of anything political, but if at least you let me know you vote today, I'll get that on my resume for the rest of my life!"

Staying away from the news until tonight, then I'm going to see what's going on in FL (whose polls should be closing right about now) and if I can get some sleep I will and will check in tomorrow morning.

Real Democracy is not for sissies.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 07:50 PM

I switch back & forth.. but despite the music, Steve Kornacki has the most clear details about what is happening with county votes and comparing them to 2016. Ohio numbers coming in favoring Biden...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 08:22 PM

You'll drive yourself nuts if you listen to the early returns. I turned it on briefly to hear them talking to a Trump apologist on PBS and decided to wait a while.

This would be a good evening to stream something on Netflix and wait till time for your local evening news to turn on the TV at the very earliest. Seriously. Human nervous systems don't do well with all of this back and forth stuff. If I had real discipline I'd wait till tomorrow morning to turn on the news.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 08:34 PM

I don't get subscription channels. I have been dabbling in TCM at times for laughs..

Just saw the last hour of "Lolita".... umm... I can't imagine what the early scenes could have done to clarify ..or justify... the staging, acting or plot twists at the end...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:03 PM

BBC World Service (radio) is doing a good on-the-spot coverage, lots of interviews. You can get it on internet radio.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:27 PM

Where's the best wonkish site for charts? The NYT has a live map, but it doesn't show how many electoral college votes the states have, for instance.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: EBarnacle
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:43 PM

The quote about counting the votes is usually attributed to Josef Stalin.

Lady Hillary and I worked the polls in NJ today. The only problem we had was getting the drop slot for the secure mail ballots to open so people could vote. Some of them went to other drop boxes. We got it working about 45 min after the polls opened.

Despite it being prominently posted, there were a couple of people who refused to mask up and were not permitted to vote. There were two who insisted on voting by machine and left without voting. No signs of intimidation. Just about everyone was orderly.

The new system worked reasonably well and, because it is paper based, will be harder for outsiders to tamper with.

Early and mail in voting was very heavy in our county.

Election Day turnout was lower than for the primary but that may have been due to a massive mail in return in our county. Also, we were unable to count the mailins who dropped their ballots in other boxes today.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 03:21 AM

did tramp really call litlle pomp, little pimp

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 05:10 AM

So, Trump claims victory and Biden asks for patience until all the votes are counted. Even FoxNews questions Trump's victory claims.
I still think Biden will win, and that the Democrats will take both the House and Senate. But it's not the total victory we had hoped for.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 05:19 AM

I hope you are right, Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 06:02 AM

I also think Biden will win, but am by no means confident, nor have I been for weeks.

On the other hand it looks like the Republicans could keep control of the Senate. It that happens, and Biden wins, we will have the stand-offs that were common during Obama's years.

Meanwhile I am wondering how this uncertainty will affect the UK-EU negotiations, but that's a topic for a different thread!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 07:54 AM

Trump’s behaviour in his ‘stop the count, I’ve decided I won’ declaration is less like that of the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth, and absolutely like that of the tin-pot dictator of some third-world banana-republic. And still, I keep seeing people on t’Interweb proclaiming him ‘the greatest president ever’.

As a life-long admirer of the US and (most of) its people, I’m finding very little to admire right now (apart from their great music and musicians!).

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 08:47 AM

the bokies at1.46 gmt have biden 1/3 on to win

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 09:22 AM

Backwoodsman. Thanks for the good wishes and I understand the doubts.

I'm disappointed and incredulous that so many of us have voted out of a willingness to believe nonsense over the evidence of our (evidently lying) eyes. And fear.
The Republicans have done some very good campaigning in critical areas and somehow the pollsters have not got a grip on the public sentiment that literally counts toward the votes. Likewise the Democrats do not have effective counters to the swamp of misinformation, despite such clever commentators such as John Oliver and Stephen Colbert (and all of Public Media).

Emotionally I'm with Joe Offer. But we need to be learning up on what makes people believe what they believe. This is not 'newly' new, but the technology changes of the latest generation have put our ability to judge under new stresses.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 10:11 AM

Somehow, stupidity has somehow become an honorable trait. I think it all started with Jerry Springer, and people throwing chairs at others. That may just come down to things that irritate me, though.

We need to find out how to make intelligence and truth more important than supporting one's club.

Biden's going to win the Presidency. Trump will then challenge the win in the courts. I have to believe that no matter what the personal beliefs of Supreme Court justices, the Constitution and the Law are more important the making a selfish, crooked politician happy. There's no room for interpretation. The evidence is the evidence is the evidence, and the law is only flexible to a point. I think he'd have to show cause to believe something illegal happened, but I'm not a lawyer.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 10:32 AM

It's not stupidity, though that is a factor. And it goes far before the times of Jerry Springer. 'Member these hoary sayings:

"There's a sucker born every minute!"

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

"Few peoples' confidence in democracy would survive a 30 minute conversation with the average voter."

I could go on, but I won't.

It's not just America, either. There is a confidence in 'The wisdom of crowds'. But then there's the Dutch Tulip Mania. And "irrational exuberance."

I think more appropriate and somewhat hopeful is Lincoln's quote: "You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

But let us not forget Trump's interjection "-and that's good enough for me!"

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 10:39 AM

Once again pundits with their predictions of huge Biden leads have worked against the body politic. They follow the money, which doesn't actually say anything except express wishes, and they don't take into account the people who refuse to participate in polls.

Again it must be said - ignore the polls and vote. Hopefully enough people did that this year to evict Trump from the White House.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 10:51 AM

i think he will win but he will only have about five votes over, say 275

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 11:24 AM

Biden leading by 238 to 213. Is that promising?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 11:37 AM

Over here they've got it Biden 224 trump 213, DtG but it looks like Biden has a clearer path to 270. Still, it ain't over 'til it's over.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 12:02 PM

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: EBarnacle
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 12:11 PM

The NYTimes
On Politics
November 4, 2020

It’s Wednesday, and this is your politics tip sheet. Today, there’s only one big tip we can think to offer: Be patient.


An election season defined by anxiety appears likely to drag on for another few nerve-racking days. How fitting.

The resounding, across-the-board victory that Democrats had hoped they might see last night — encouraged by their strong showing in the 2018 midterms, and yet another year of overly favorable polls — never materialized.

At the same time, what at first blush may have seemed as if it was shaping up to be a surprisingly robust Republican showing was actually much less certain. The first ballots to be counted in many states were those cast on Election Day, giving an illusion of Republican mega-strength that will probably erode across the board as more mail-in ballots are counted.

And so now, we wait.

Of course, that’s not what President Trump wants us to do. He got onstage at the White House around 2:30 a.m. and unleashed an attack on the country’s very democratic institutions.

“We were getting ready to win this election. Frankly, we did win this election,” he said, falsely claiming that the early returns gave him an insurmountable lead and baselessly calling the vote-counting process “a fraud on the American people.” He declared — alarmingly — that he intended to bring his complaints to the Supreme Court, with its newly strengthened conservative majority, and ask it to stop counting ballots.

“We’ll be going to the U.S. Supreme Court,” he said. “We want all voting to stop. We don’t want them to find any ballots at 4 o’clock in the morning and add them to the list, OK? It’s a very sad moment.”

Joe Biden appeared to see this coming — and indeed, Democrats had worried about such a scenario occurring in a tight race. By the time Trump spoke, Biden had already pre-empted the president, giving his own remarks over an hour earlier at a drive-in event in Wilmington, Del. In a brief address, partly off the cuff but mostly off a teleprompter, Biden declared himself optimistic and insisted that every vote must count.

“I’m here to tell you tonight, we believe we’re on track to win this election,” he said. “We knew because of the unprecedented early vote and the mail-in vote, it was going to take a while. We’re going to have to be patient until the hard work of tallying the votes is finished. And it ain’t over until every vote is counted, every ballot is counted.”

Republicans yesterday did win closely contested Senate races in at least two states, Alabama and Iowa, and flipped at least six House seats, giving them a four-seat net gain in that chamber so far.

But Democrats also picked up two Senate seats, in Colorado and Arizona, and close races remain uncalled in North Carolina, Georgia, Michigan and Maine — most of them potential Democratic pickups. The party’s path to a Senate majority may have narrowed somewhat, but the fate of the chamber, it’s safe to say, still hangs in the balance.

Where we’re at
Based on the states that have already been declared, Biden needs 43 more electoral votes to get to the golden number of 270, and Trump needs 57.

The three Northern states that flipped for Trump in 2016 — Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania — remain uncalled. So do North Carolina and Georgia, both of which went for him in 2016 but have been heavily targeted by Democrats this cycle, and both of which are double-whammies: They have contested Senate races hitched to the presidential contest.

In many of these still-uncalled states, Trump holds the lead in terms of ballots counted — but that could easily change as more mail-in ballots and some in-person votes continue to be tabulated.

In Georgia, as Biden mentioned in his speech, Democrats are feeling bullish. Many more votes are yet to come in from the Atlanta area; in DeKalb County, for instance, one of the state’s largest, early in-person votes had not even begun to be counted until last night.

In Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, votes were not allowed to be counted until yesterday morning, so it could take at least another day for all ballots to be tabulated.

When exit polls disagree
One lesson that we learned — well, relearned — last night is that polls cannot be trusted to predict the outcome of an election. Prepare yourself for a lot of articles about this fact.

Yet another reminder of this verity arrived via the exit polls, when two separate voter surveys yesterday showed some widely diverging results.

The traditional exit polls, conducted by Edison Research on behalf of a consortium of news organizations, showed that Trump was neck and neck with Biden among white college graduates, including a virtual tie among white women with college degrees. This was in defiance of almost every major poll before the election.

The Associated Press and NORC’s new, ambitious, 140,000-interview voter survey, VoteCast, had results that were more in line with expectations: Biden was ahead among white women with college educations by more than 20 points, even as Trump managed to pull closer to even with him among white college men.

This was only one of many points of departure between the traditional exit polls, which tended to show results slightly more favorable to Trump across the board, and the new A.P./NORC study.

As you get ready for a season full of polling takes, expect these voter surveys to be a major focus of discussion and hand-wringing.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 02:46 PM

Aaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuugggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 03:25 PM

biden 248 trump , trump214 is a dead donald

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 03:35 PM

Perhaps, Sandman, but this clip from the Guardian is sobering.

Now, if Trump wins the election, Trumpism wins. But if Trump loses the election, Trumpism wins too.

A sense of grievance over a narrow defeat, fuelled by the president’s bogus claims of fraud and amplified by conservative media, will thrive again a Democratic president. The “Make America Great Again” movement – with its nostalgia for a country that never was – was built for opposition rather than incumbency.

There’s more, Republicans appear to be on course to hold their Senate majority and may end up gaining seats in the House of Representatives. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, and Lindsey Graham were rewarded, not punished, for normalising Trump and enforcing his will. The message to other Republican aspirants is clear. This is Trump’s party now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 04:12 PM

Will it ever end, I would rather listen to a recent Shirley Collins album than anything to do with their preposterous errection!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 04:21 PM

"Trumpism" is the last thing on my mind right now. It appears that we have flushed the orange turd and that is cause for celebration.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 04:49 PM

As to the query "IS that promising" about the electoral vote. The short answer is "no". The electoral college is a way to sum up the state by state totals where a vote within a state that involves the merest of majorities puts the totality of the state's vote count (the sum of the state's number of representatives and senators) into the candidate's bucket. There are a couple of states with proportional counts, but the far greater majority have a winner take all philosophy. So it comes down to a vew states with contested or incomplete or both counts.

Right now it's neck and neck and it's going to stay that way for anything from a couple of days to a couple of months.

By the way, I understand the desire to be helpful but downloading an entire New York Times article into an opinion thread is not that helpful (and I'm guilty of just the same thing).

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 05:12 PM

As of this post, Michigan has been called for Biden.. if that holds, it gives him 264..... and he's leading in Nevada, which has 9. Math... and Penn. is still being counted.

Trump, of course, is suing everyone connected with counting,,, "to 'review' all ballots where we didn't have access."

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 05:43 PM

In local elections DC has legalized magic mushrooms. I voted against sports betting but it won 66 to 34.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 05:55 PM

It's the hope that is driving me around the bend...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Elmore
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 07:14 PM

Thank Christ Biden is the (apparent) winner. My late, beloved wife, an atheist, whom I miss more than I can say, was rolling over in her ashes last night. tmi?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 08:23 PM

Election reporting is over using the word PATH to victory.
The psycho path must be going crazy.
I'm happy Florida is not the deciding state anymore.
Pennsylvania has that honor/snafu now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 09:13 PM

If Biden holds Arizona and Nevada, which seems likely, Pennsylvania won't matter, he'll be right at 270. Georgia is also in play for Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 11:00 PM

They flipped Arizona!

exclaims the Mudcat member
old enough to remember Senator Barry Goldwater.

I have lived to see the day ...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 11:47 PM

Trump was put in office by the Electoral College, despite the 3million + popular votes more that Hillary won. It's time for the Electoral College, a relic of the days when slave-holding states needed to get an extra bump, to go away. The popular vote should be the only factor.

It's agonizing to wait for the answer, but then, I think about how this must be absolute torture for Trump and his money-grubbing family and friends, I can be patient and wait for the results.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 12:29 AM

264 biden 214 trump how can trump win

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 12:32 AM

bonzo nobody forces you to do anything so please desit imposing your doggerel on us

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 01:57 AM

and what is the green party candidate like ,and the libertarian is she more right wing than trump

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 03:02 AM

ok the libertarian is progressive in some ways and reactionary in others

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 04:25 AM

A peculiar feature of all this is that the election and the ongoing rows will inevitably make the election centre stage and therefore drive the virus off the front page. On the UK 'Newsnight' programme last night there was already a Republican pointing out coronavirus has disappeared from the news, which is exactly what Trump claimed would happen. Of course, Trump claimed it would happen because it is all a plot by Democrats to stoke fear and it seems likely his supporters will believe that rather than the real reason it is off the front page for a while - perhaps quite a long while. It could be some time before the difference between 'disappearing' and 'disappearing from the news headlines' is understood.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 05:35 AM

Surely a libertarian is someone who puts individual freedom above social responsibility - eg people who own semi-automatic firearms.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 07:23 AM

A libertarian is free to annoy everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 08:34 AM

If Biden (or anyone) doesn't get to 270 electoral college votes, there must be a Contingency Election, which sounds like too much fun. I think it means that we could end up with Biden/Pence, but I don't know. I just want Biden to win freakin' Nevada.

Covid-19 has pretty much wrecked everything: lives, our economy, way of life, and the reason it's still surging 9 months later is that we have no federal leadership, to speak of. We've got a guy sitting in an office, making money, and hurting people. Not "leading".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 08:47 AM

Irish of berb "to desit" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oi desit
ye desit
he'b desit
we'b desitin'
you'b desitin'
they'b desitin'

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 10:06 AM

"We go to the garrick now and become warbs."

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 02:22 PM

bonzo is just being a dog in a manger.
bonzio, i am not irish i have a uk passport
now a really important fact, that nobody has mentioned is about the presedential debate which only takes place between republicans and democrats no other candidates take part apparantly back in the 1980s the democrats and the republicans agreed to set up a jointly owned private company called theThe Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD)
is a nonprofit corporation established in 1987 under the joint sponsorship of the Democratic and Republican political parties in the United States. ... It has run all of the presidential debates held since 1988.
it excludes all other parties

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 02:32 PM

The Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) is a nonprofit corporation established in 1987 under the joint sponsorship of the Democratic and Republican political parties in the United States.[1][3] The CPD sponsors and produces debates for U.S. presidential and vice-presidential candidates and undertakes research and educational activities relating to the debates. It has run all of the presidential debates held since 1988. The commission's debates are sponsored by private contributions from foundations and corporations[4] as well as fees from hosting institutions.[5]

The commission's exclusion of third-party candidates from the debates has been the subject of controversy and legal challenges.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 06:15 PM

Obviously I can't speak for everybody this end, but if I might just make a pitch for what my take on what "The Reasonable Brit" might be thinking about what's going on:

We want, dearly want, Joe Biden to get over the line. He may be weak because of the prospective numbers in the House/Senate, but we see him as that Safe Pair Of Hands that we saw (despite their flaws) with Bill Clinton and Obama. We think that his pledge to rejoin the Paris Accords is crucial for the future of the planet. We are incredibly disappointed that he didn't wipe Trump out. In fact, bearing in mind that Trump got far more votes than last time, we are worried to death about the future of western democracy in the face of the rise of populism. We have a US contributor on Question Time tonight who is saying that the US is not a democracy at all, but an oligarchy driven by corporations and powerful lobby groups. I'm not quite there with that view myself but I know what she means. I liked to hear Biden's calm voice tonight. Whether he can calm the world for four years to come is a bloody moot point but he's the only hope we've got. There's no God so I can't pray, but I want to wake up tomorrow hearing that Joe has made it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 07:33 PM

He's going to make it.

Trump was just talking about how the evil Democrats were trying to steal the election. He said he won. There are lawsuits and attempts to stop the counting everywhere, some of which were dismissed. The mad has been increasingly un-balanced, and is very bad right now, what with his level of frustration. I think Biden will win, and I think Trump will be interesting to watch, if you like that sort of entertainment. MSNBC just stopped showing his address, and I think ignoring him is probably the healthiest thing I can do.

I should say, I don't think Biden is weak just because Trump has tried to get people to believe he is. Calm logic, patience in the face of craziness, and deliberate ignoring trolls takes some fortitude. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 07:47 PM

I didn't mean to imply that he would be weak as a man, just that he could be weakened by the prospect of a lack of majority in the House/Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 08:39 PM

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like Dems still have the House. They thought they get the Senate, but didn't, or at least didn't flip it completely. I wish they got the Senate, but the Presidency is pretty good. (I DID want McConnell and Graham gone.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 09:39 PM

The election is over but Trump and FOX news are still campagning and have gone all in by putting all of their chips on lawsuits that claim they didn't have enough of their poll watchers allowed in to breathe down the neck of the poll counters. Its a he said she said arguement.

He said its Earth Shattering
She said much ado about nothing

He said the dead have risen from the grave to vote
She said no they didn't

He said it is outrageous, partisan and lawless
She said yes you are.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 02:21 AM

rump is just a bad loser, the only infair thing about this election is the presedential debate, the green party and the fecwin libertarians should not be excluded the commission of presidential debate is a sticth up between the republicans and the democrats, i do not agree wit the libertarians on most issues but they should be allowed along with the greens to take part in a presidential debate, hardly a level playing field

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 04:20 AM

Absolutely Sandman!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 04:25 AM

That is tricky, though, Sandman. Without some sort of proportional representation what usually happens is the smallest party (eg the Greens) takes votes disproportionately from the party most aligned with them, leading to the one least aligned getting most votes. This vote-splitting has been the bane of all FPTP systems wherever they are in the world, and, short of some PR system, it seems insoluble.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 08:46 AM

An animation about your 3rd party quandry:

A donkey and an elephant are both sitting on the far ends of a park bench reading a newspaper. Up walks a donkey with thick legs and a short elephant trunk asking "Is there room?". The donkey and elephant plop down their newspapers in the middle of the bench and say
"NO !!"

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:05 PM

Ah the hope the hope the hope
Painful painful agonizing hope
I feel for MIA families, again
Hope is cruel and has pointy teeth
And claws

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:20 PM

biden will win but udforunately donald fuck up will be there until jan 20

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 12:30 PM

There are no Republicans willing to give their fearful leader the bad news. Instead they are leaving it up to FOX NEWS to tell King Lear the awful truth.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 01:02 PM

Reported on BBC News earlier that Repuglican close supporters of tRump are now beginning to slowly distance themselves from him.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 05:25 PM

The cracks in the damn enablers are showing fear of prosecution and are backing away slowly. Even Murdoch has started whistling past the graveyard of the Trump family. Yes it is time to put the dick back in the dictator. I'll allow Pelosi to choose where to put it. Dic-tator tots like Donald Trump Junior are crying for the people to go to war, but with an army like Rudy's Ruff riders and Bubba's Tennesee militia it does not look like civil war afterall.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: mg
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 06:18 PM

here is a great song..the same old wind that blows our strings out of tune is blowing our discords away. https://soundcloud.com/timberbound/same-old-wind?in=timberbound/sets/timberbound-songbook

https://soundcloud.com/timberbound/same-old-wind?in=timberbound/sets/timberbound-songbook

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 06:18 PM

Joe Biden is going to be the president of the United States, the math is an impossibility for Donald Trump now. He can not be elected President, there is no path for him to be elected with the few remaining uncounted votes. Temper tantrums and hurt feelings don't matter anymore; his delusions, his King Lear act, the enablers are upset - it doesn't matter. They lost.

That leaves 48% of Americans having voted for a an authoritarian movementwith fascistic markers hostile to American democracy, to the rule of law and venerates a cult personality. I think the heir apparent will not be Trrmp Jr.but is Tucker Carlson in 2024. Hewill say Trump was stabbed in the back by unseen deep state actors and the election was stolen. That will be the new cry of the right wing victim.

Republicans will believe this forever because they have been poisoned by the Murdoch corporation, by OAN, by Sinclair, the sludge and aewerage on Facebook, so this will still be a long term fight.
We have an embolden white nationalistmoveent, we see a militia movement supported by the Republican party like black shirts. AR 15s are a political statement. All this needs to be sealed up and buried like the Chernobyl reactor.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THIS 4 million people oppose those dark efforts of the right. From the Lexington Concord forward we the people decided to govern ourselves and not be dictated to. We pick the leaders.

Trump has been fired due to his malfeasence, recklessness, immaturity and insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 03:15 AM

I am hearing theories Trump will resign before the inauguration in January specifically so that Pence can give him a Presidential pardon. I can't say I would be surprised.

I presume that if he decided to do that, there is no way of preventing it?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 03:36 AM

I hope that Biden does get to the White House and then makes sure there are failsafes in place to prevent the election of anyone so twisted again. The downside to this is that we in the UK can no longer say that there are worse things than Boris Johnson...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 03:56 AM

There are too many 'Red' states for it to fly, but I would have liked to see a proposal for an amendment to the Constitution to put some constraints on what a President can and cannot do, including such things as blocking nepotism and the use of properties owned by the President and family for government purposes, and government properties for party purposes. I am sure other can think of things to add to the list.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 04:00 AM

well biden is certainly better than donald, however i think that the commission of presidential debate is a stitch up

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 05:10 AM

Here's an indication of how much regard some trump supporters have for the democratic process-
Stop the vote...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 06:34 AM

“Don’t wanna go...!!”

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 07:51 AM

very good - the solution is clear. build a new white house, a new mar-a-lago take the real trump tower.....get Fauci to sedate DT and stick him in his own new reality TV show 'How I won the White House 2020' It will be a piece of piss to get him to watch the new 'Donald TV' show and filter the rest. He carries on , as ever, in his own world and we get to enjoy watching all the fun. i'm sure real world leaders would love to make guest appearances and feed his sense of importance. 'can i congratulate you on your victory....etc...' he's happy, everyone's a winner!

david lynch to direct the show, i think.....any other suggestions?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 09:00 AM

This all got messed up from the top levels directing the bottom, and it spread. In other words, they screwed education so kids no longer learn about civics. They watch TV, where people who act like idiots are rewarded by being noticed. Mostly, because they're uneducated, they believe whatever their hero tells them.
Man, question everything - not just "authority", but what the people you like say. We have a whole generation (or maybe two) of stupid people. Educate their kids, at least.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 11:29 AM

It got called for Biden while I was at the market. Whew.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 11:51 AM

*Singing* Donald the ex-President packed his trunk and got kicked out of the Whitehouse. Off he went with a Trumpety Trump, Trump, Trump....

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 11:52 AM

The Orange Lunatic has lost. Time to forget the bastard and move forward.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 11:58 AM

I said months ago that Joe couldn't win. I have never been so utterly delighted in my whole life that I could have been so woefully wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 12:37 PM

And I’m utterly delighted you were wrong, Steve. I thought Agent Orange would get back in - I’m amazed and delighted I was wrong too.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 12:40 PM

Our American mates better make sure this result sticks.

I'll celebrate when I know for absolute certain that trump no longer has any access to nuclear codes and buttons.

He's too much like the spoilt brat
who gets kicked off the football pitch
and punctures the ball as he sulks off...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 12:44 PM

... anyway..

Hopefully, direct from Whitehouse to jail without passing go...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 12:49 PM

Well done all my American friends and thank you to the 75 million who voted for sanity. We still have Johnson and Putin to go but hopefully you have sent the message that short term populism isn't an option for most of the world :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:03 PM

Lest we forget, Trump wasn't exactly wiped out. He increased his personal vote. The USA is a bitterly divided country just now, and reuniting it will be one of Biden's most difficult tasks. He's made a very good start by remaining dignified, calm and measured during the last few days.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:05 PM

What a glorious day!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:05 PM

The ninth post in a row from a Brit. We do follow your politics, and you may be assured that this effusion is no more than a reflection of our sheer relief.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:06 PM

Well NEARLY the ninth in a row... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:08 PM

Yes Biden won by a margin greater than JFK and even Ronald Reagan. I toasted Obama's win with Champagne / I will toast Biden's win with warm Milk and Cinnamon toast.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:14 PM

a message for trump
to quote cromwell, You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately ... In the name of God, go!"

Subject: RE: TRESPASSER AND CHEF
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:15 PM

No, I can't forget that evening
Or Fox News as votes were leaving
But I guess that's just the way the story goes
I always yell but in my eyes my anger grows
Yes, it grows

No, I can't forget tomorrow
When I think of all my sorrows
At the white house they turned off the power
It is not fair they turned off the power
These grapes are sour

I can't lie, if lieing is without power
I can't grift, I can't gripe any more
Can't live, if living is without TV !
I can't tweet, I can't tweet any more!

Well, I can't forget that evening
Or the anger of them stealing
But I guess that's just the…

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:21 PM

Looks like old trump is going to be serenaded tonight by massive crowds in Black Lives Matter Plaza. We're celebrating with Chili and Apple pie tonight. Times sure have changed.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Helen
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:28 PM

pfr, have you been watching Adam Hills The Last Leg? In the episode this week he showed a Monopoly-style game board but it was called Democracy and the last thing he did was a reference to a certain person going straight to jail.

I just read the news here in Oz. Yes Joe Biden and his team will have an uphill battle to restore some sort of balance and normality and he probably won't achieve everything to his complete satisfaction but if ever a battle was worth fighting for, this is it.

Yay for the real people!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 02:14 PM

No, I rarely watch TV comedy shows..

[Real world politics is darkly cruel enough absurdist comedy..!!!]

But it's such an obvious thought, it's bound to spontaneously enter many thousands of imaginative minds
all at the same time...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 11/7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 02:40 PM

The orange tick has dug his way (and that of his family) into a position of power and it's going to take more than a hot match head to get them to back out of the flesh of American government. They're all going to have to put their houses up for sale, they're going to have to restart their businesses, and, yes, they're going to have to keep attorneys on retainers to settle all of the lawsuits and represent them in court for criminal proceedings.

They probably will trash the place as they go, so here's hoping the non-partisan federal employees who look over the White House and other public buildings used by Trump will be able to stand up to the Trumps. And please, fumigate the White House before the new First Family moves in.

Trump has been briefed on all sorts of top secret activity, he still has the nuclear codes. This is a really dangerous time to have a sociopathic toddler's temper tantrum run for the next 2.5 months.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins 7 Nov
From: Helen
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 03:10 PM

Regarding the sociopathic toddler's temper tantrum, this song just popped into my head - before I read your post SRS.

Can't Stand Losing You

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 03:44 PM

Don, I can vibe with the sentiment, but somebody really needs to talk to you about scansion.

I'd like to find a party in some close-by street, but, you know,... germs. (Plus I'd have to drive there, find a place to park, and walk to the fun place. and it doesn't work with my level of laziness.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 04:21 PM

I've inquired about the same thing. There are fewer Democrats in this Texas county so I think maintaining distance would be easier than in Times Square or Black Lives Matter plaza in Washington, D.C. And just think about the Black Lives Matter stretch of Fifth Avenue in New York City tonight. Now that will be something to see.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 04:25 PM

I have to consider that there are (I would presume) a lot of folks who are close to Trump, who have been biting their tongues and putting up with his bullshit for a few year, and will likely be happy they can stop doing that. And they're also close enough to stop any acting out he might do.

I hope, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 04:30 PM

US Police and military will be preparing for fall out action,
and testing their loyalties...

Definitely a time to be glad I live in Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: mg
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 06:27 PM

I don't see this as a deeply divided country. There are extremists on all sides but there is a strong and sane center that wants security, safety, life, liberty, right to own property, right to free speech and freedom to vote however in honest elections (which are only as honest as loopholes that are closed). I am glad biden won, wish it was by more so less contesting the vote, but he did not deserve a landslide.he failed to even condemn the rioting and supposedly 88% of trump voters mentioned that as a factor in exit polls. It was a huge factor for me, although I did not vote for him. They need to tell the big packed crowds to disperse..what are they thinking of in raging pandemic.same for trump rallies, huge weddings etc. Go home and tweet. Stay home for Thanksgiving. Be grateful for the outcome but we will be better off with minimum smugness and condescension.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 07:27 PM

Mg, I think it looks like we're so divided because the crazy part of the right wing is very, very loud. I just hope they're jealous enough of all the block parties going on now that they'll see how wrong they are and join the fun.
and then flying monkeys come out of my ass and sprinkle fairy dust on everyone, and we all sing "kumbaya", and hug

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: meself
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 08:12 PM

Biden indeed DID condemn the rioting - but that doesn't fit the narrative, so ....... Besides, even if he didn't - what manner of human being could vote for someone who destroyed families by stealing toddlers from their mothers?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 08:27 PM

Perhaps you should have expected someone with a career of hypnosis and mind control to forgive all the Trumpsters as victims of a fractured mind, put in a bubble of solitary confinement, subjected to psych algorithems on Facebook, all with the background audio of right wing radio bought by Sinclair to further reinforce the elimination rhetoric, and QAnon extremism that precedes a holocaust while strung out on Fox News.

If npr had been corrupted you too might believe an awful story and start down the road of a fractured mind syndrome. Don't think you are immune. The correct term is disinformation - not misinformation when it is used deliberatetly in mind control. Believe me control of the masses is a real current career path today.

I'm the maverick that is like a defense against the dark arts professor. Or like Penn and Teller showing people how tricks and illusions are done. I'm the one who refused to work for the CIA in this field when I was actively recruited. There were consequencea and sacrifice.

Undoing the fractured mind is tedious work but can be done in less time than a Presidential term. This is not hocus pocus BS but is serious stuff that works on intelligent people.

Like hacking code, toxic and poisonous mind control is out of the CIA bag now and is being used in cults and republican think tanks and nations..

WHAT TO DO NOW? Forgive those fractured and enamored with Trump - Half of them can be easily redeemed.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Elmore
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 11:35 PM

Trump has something to boast about. Seventy million plus voters, and he lost. Makes him the biggest loser of all time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 02:30 AM

Yes, Joe Biden did indeed- and frequently! - condemn the violence. He often said, very forcefully, 'Demonstrating is an American right but looting and burning and vandalism is NOT demonstrating. They are CRIMES.'

I don't quite see how anyone missed that.

But I have a question: Just how much power does the outgoing president retain during the period between the election and the inauguration?

I know he can pardon all manner of people- evidently including himself, which saves him from ONLY federal crimes but does not save him from state infractions. So my expectation is that he will preemptively pardon his family and a number of others. (A feature of pardons that is sometimes overlooked is that accepting a pardon indicates that you recognize your guilt.)

But surely he cannot enter into agreements with other national heads? Surely not declare wars? Respond to aggression, yes, but not otherwise?

Oh, and Donuel, your post of Nov. 6 at 8:46 AM needs crediting. If I had not previously seen that elsewhere, I would have thought you ere claiming it as our own. Perhaps no one else would have but I am the trusting sort.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 03:13 AM

Trump has farted and thus departed, graffiti on wall of toilet 2020

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 09:02 AM

Have you seen this? Not made up. You couldn't make this stuff up

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 09:34 AM

What an incredible screw up but having seen Borat's Subsequent Movie Film it makes perfect sense that Rudy would stage the thing next to an adult store. He probably wanted to duck in for a little post-presser shopping.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 10:01 AM

At least you knew the song Ebbie. I do 60 second parody songs, prose and less often poetry that can take weeks or years as in the case of "the dark ages were golden for some".

The main thing is to catch them in the breeze while they blow past.

Concession doesn't matter especially to professional critics

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 10:03 AM

Biden didn't just squeak through with the election, he had four million plus more votes than Trump. It's only this obsolete "Electoral College" - a remnant of the slave states era, that makes it look "close." (States with a low population of white land-owning men compared to the larger percentage of slaves, decided that a "winner take all" setup would give them more clout to protect their slave-holding status). Now that the populace as a whole is entitled to vote, that relic needs to go away.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 10:06 AM

Have you seen this? Not made up. You couldn't make this stuff up"

I don't think enough is being made of the fact the adult bookshop is called "Fantasy Island"

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 10:28 AM

The AP has called AZ for Biden and if he takes GA, and it appears he will, he'll wind up with 306 electoral votes, the same amount trump had in 2016 when he claimed he won by "the biggest landslide in history". So this thing wasn't all that close in either the popular vote or the "Electoral College".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 10:48 AM

Good catch all.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 11:47 AM

Now the efforts begin to win the 2 Senate seats in Georgia. $$$$$ will flow....

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 12:26 PM

One reason for optimism regarding those GA runoff elections is that since trump won't be on the ballot some of those boneheads that support him might not be bothered to show up at the polls. I'll certainly kick in a few bucks, the enormous task of cleaning up trump's gigantic mess will be considerably easier if the Democrats control the Senate and the thought of the corrupt, racist, QAnon enthusiast Kelly Loeffler winning a seat is nauseating.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 06:06 PM

The reason I said Trump is now at 214 electoral votes is because faithless electors could change the 'final countdown'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_electors_in_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 11:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gr0B16rFzI

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 01:01 AM

Faithless electors are rarely a thing - and many states have laws that simply prevent their changing their votes.

I suppose the BBC may go by the "equal time" rule that the FCC used to impose on radio and TV here, but it ends up with minority crackpots getting equal time with actual players in a serious conversation. They were interviewing a woman from North Carolina tonight who was trying to claim Trump shouldn't concede and the court cases have "merit," even though she couldn't give any facts as to what actual real merit might exist. It was a waste of airtime.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 01:26 AM

trumps got a couple of months
and state of the art technology at his team's disposal
to fabricate digital 'proof and merit'...

Us Brits are totally bewildered
why you yanks permit the loser to stay barricaded in power
for so long after defeat in the election.?????

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 02:43 AM

punkfolkrocker, that was my implied question: How much power does the outgoing president retain=why is there such a long period of time available for mischief making? I know the reasoning and that inaugurations used to be held in March because travel was so slow. However, that is no longer the case and it seems to me that December 1, say, should be plenty of time.

They are saying that Biden has spent the last few months formulating his cabinet members, long before he could be sure he would be elected. That seems logical to me.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 04:41 AM

SRS, Our 'equal time' policy here is ridiculous. BBC seem compelled to wheel out Nigel Farage at a drop of a hat, even though he, and his party, holds no public office anywhere. Every time he opens his vile mouth I want to scream or throw something at the TV.

In my view, the amount of airtime a party or so-called party gets should be proportionate to the number of councillors, regional representatives and MPs. Otherwise BBC should be giving equal coverage to everyone who has aspiration to become a politician.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 05:14 AM

There's an excellent post mortem covering both sides of the campaign in the Washington Post titled "Trump Loses His Most Drastic Gamble".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM

you can think what you like so can i ,it makes no difference, however it exposes democracy as not a level playing field, it also means those parties who have the backing of money are at an advantage, that generally favours the establishment

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 10:40 AM

It used to be the new president didn't assume office until March of the following year. It was moved forward a long time ago, but this may be the election that has it moving even closer to the date of the election being certified. There is a lot of canvasing left to do, so the next day wouldn't work here (since the whole nation and not just a house of parliament makes this vote).

Trump even trots out Farage here in the US. That's what is so concerning about that fool - his need to import bigotry and haters.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 11:55 AM

Hitler lost his first election getting only 30%. Trump lost by several %.

POST CAMPAIGN RALLYS (the 1st of their kind) are planned and guns are not disallowed in certain areas. Trump may not be satisfied without blood being spilled like an unstable child seeking revenge. He would also possibly create Trump martyrs for his base as a fringe benefit for his domestic call to arms.

In lieu of dramatic scenarios like that his next 70 days will have to be handled very carefully. No help from the Republicans, they're busy getting Covid any way, like Ben Carson and Mark Meadows chief of staff and 30 others.

The revolution of the chiken shits is laughable.
I would charge him with sedition the moment he called on any federal forces to support his continuance. Tie him up by any means possible.
Frankly his militia of white supremacists is not up to the task of kidnapping Rosie O'Donnel.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 12:23 PM

trump needs to be reminded of the squalid fate of Nicolae Ceau?escu,
and so many other recently deposed dictators..

Even he must surely be aware of how it all ended for Julius Caesar...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 12:33 PM

IN REALITY (I never liked that phrase when followed by the lie de jour) The Trump presidency began by GOING DOWN his gilded escalator
and ended with his lawyer Rudy yelling in front of a sex shop and crematorium that "Biden stole the election". It is a short 2 mile trip down that same strip mall road to the Pennsylvania State Prison - no kidding.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 01:19 PM

I am a bit worried that some gun nut might see himself as a "have a go hero", or a self-proclaimed evangelist on a "holy mission".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 01:37 PM

So what happens if trump death squads successfully assassinate Biden and Harris
before they get to take over in the Whitehouse...???

Is it still a firm win for the Democrat Party and any successors they nominate..?????

[when I studied politics at college over 40 years ago,
even our lecturer struggled to understand how USA government works...]

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 04:17 PM

My understanding is that if Biden dies before inauguration, Harris is it, and if she dies too, then the Speaker. But I think that is if they die *after* the electors elect.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 04:53 PM

why after?


Assasination although ever present is a rhetorical bridge too far. Last time the right cleaned house for 3 generations by getting JFK, MLK and RFK.

Spent all afternoon studying medieval Spanish history contrasting the tolerent and intolerent regiemes be they Islam or Christian. Jews always got the short stick from the other 2 religions.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 06:27 PM

A journalist interview of several Alaskans just caught my eye; they are talking about how long it takes to tally the votes in the state of Alaska at every election. The catch is that so many votes are mailed in, that the date of the postmark has to be part of the requirements. Although Alaska has begun to count the votes, it is estimated that only half of the votes have been counted at this point ... (Associated Press)

Ebbie, any opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 07:03 PM

Looking at how long it takes to go from tolerence of your neighbor to participating in an actual holocaust against your neighbor takes an average of 10 years more or less based on all the examples since the 1st century. In Germany it took longer than it did in Rawanda.
The crucial step is eliminationist rhetoric. Google it and see what you have been hearing for 16 years already in the USA.

The best medicine is education so you know what and who is up to the worst that mankind is prone to do.

Someday a competant ethnic purity advocate can seduce average Americans to the dark side. Vigilence is never ending.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 08:48 PM

The hateful right is seeding a plethora of populist youtube superhero movie/comics channels for children,
with pernicious propaganda,
in a determined strategy to normalise and indoctrinate intolerance...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 06:45 AM

Re the run off for the two Senate seats in Georgia. This was because no one got 50% or above.

What happens if after the rerun on 5rh January they still don't? Does who get most win, or does the Senate run two seats short? If so, Biden effectively controls the Senate and can get his appointments through, at least until those two seats are filled.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 06:54 AM

(I realise of course if the run off is strictly limited to the two candidates- no write-ins etc - a draw is almost impossible, but I don't know is the run off is that restricted)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 07:23 AM

Thats a good question, I can only guess it would go to the state legislature.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 08:25 AM

Why after is because before is different.

Punkfolkrocker, I would love to play you at Poetry for Neanderthals, where all clues must be words of one syllable or the other team gets to whack you with an inflatable No stick. I mean, a stick you blow up.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 08:49 AM

What...????????

me sorry me write too big brainy English words..

Me must learn to write little word English for American readers..

..like "ass" and "guns"....

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 09:09 AM

Mike Pense is standing back but he is not standing by.
HE WENT ON VACATION.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 09:20 AM

Punky, the size didn't matter, it was the alliteration, methinks. (I HOPE, anyway.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 09:20 AM

In the old days,
a gentleman in trump's position
would retire to his office with a brandy, a cigar,
and a revolver loaded with a single bullet...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 09:29 AM

Jeri - Blame it on my 1960s/70s free high quality state education.

Since then, British tory governments have realized the error
of properly educating working class children..

Hence Brexit and the rise of right wing populism...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 09:31 AM

Thats English Hari Kari? Trump is too cowardly. Who knows, he may not end up in prison. He should at the bare minimum be forced to walk the 'ramp'.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 03:00 PM

I fully expect a smooth transition from Republican President to inmate.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 05:03 PM

A British perspective

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 06:13 PM

Sugar in the gas tank, sand in the gears
gum up all the works, for years and years
The brat wants sweet revenge, for losing face.
Its not his fault, should he lose one race.
All his 2 faced friends, agree he won.
Pretending that he's right, is kinda fun.
He's the kid who steals, the trophy fees.
He eats choc'late cake, an' drinks kofefe.
he grabs the puss, an' likes his pee pee.
I know for you and me, he's really creepy.
The US like the Vatican, has 2 Popes.
One to get things done, the other's just a dope.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 07:04 PM

Probably similar to the Oz perspective, too.

Clever and funny and true, pfr! :-D

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 07:26 AM

What I don't understand is why in the USA they don't just count the votes and then announce the result when that's done, instead of leaking the numbers bit by bit. That's the way it's done in most countries, so far as I'm aware. Estimates of how an election is going may get made by the media in the meantime, but they only have the status of predictions.

And why mess around with an extended Lame Duck period (which with Donald is going to be more of a Mad Duck period). It'd be perfectly possible for most of the transitional handover to be done on a provisional basis in advance of the election, and to have an immediate handover when the result of the election is declared.

"The King is Dead. Long Live the King." That's a pretty tried and tested way of managing these things.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 07:52 AM

Many of the rules were made when people and information moved at the speed of horseback.
In the case of absentee votes, some are still being counted.
Mail in ballots placed new pressures in this time of pandemic.
Every state has its own process and rules.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 07:56 AM

Sounds like the US needs to get its Electoral-Process act together. It’s a dysfunctional dog’s breakfast in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 08:42 AM

There's no logical reason why it should take significantly longer to count the votes in a big election than in a small one. There are a lot more people voting, true enough, but there are a lot more people counting the votes. Adding up the separate counts could be a matter of minutes.

As for absentee votes there is no reason that should delay things more than a few days. If the votes come in later than the deadline, tough luck, they've missed the bus.

There's also the fact that US elections involve a lot more things than just the President, and they have these massive voting forms to confuse people but there's no reason to count all these at the same time. The vote for the dogcatcher and the rest of the list can wait.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 11:21 AM

Bit of GOP corruption that I expect will go uninvestigated by the Turnip's team.

In summary -

A Pennsylvania postal worker has admitted he made up claims of electoral fraud in the battleground state, according to reports.

The case had been cited by Republicans as evidence of widespread ballot tampering and GOP donors had even given $136,000 to the whistleblower

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 01:34 PM

Eschew obfuscation! No, I liked your post, but it sure was a flourish of jargon, pfr!

I am heartened by the so-far lack of response by anyone with actual power to overturn the election results... The Supreme Court is not overturning Obamacare, other courts are tossing baseless Republican lawsuits, and so on.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 01:56 PM

jargon...!!!???

I'm a lifelong supporter of the aims of The Plain English Campaign...

The only dodgy possibly pretentious elitist word I used was "plethora"...???

That word might be to bigly for your president,
but I do give my yank mudcat mates more credit for brainlyness...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 02:00 PM

btw. to ad to al my problems, my keyboard is increasingly refusing to type double leters..

eg. "to"...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 04:06 PM

If you have an hour it would be well-spent listening to Heather Cox Richardson discuss this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 04:40 PM

Next interesting poll will be the Senate vote in Georgia, which could tip the balance and stymie the Democrats' plans for healthcare, coronavirus, housing the homeless, jobs, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 04:48 PM

McGrath... it is hard for those in smaller countries to understand what having 50 states.. and territories.. with rules almost amounting to separate countries.... can mean. It is very similar to gun laws or abortion restrictions. they just don't all do it the same way.
   It's called **states rights** and it's written into the Constitution.

It seemed to make sense in 1789, but it hit a snag in the mid 1860s when slavery became a major issue...Now, because it takes both houses of Congress to pass a change and 3/4 of all states to ratify it,it is VERY hard to get enough conservative states to agree. So, it is something of a stalemate. We are trapped by our own regulations.

Add to that the problem of writing vote counting procedures that work the same in Idaho and New York with very different demographics and populations... and 'modern' technology that is VERY hard to make secure... and you have a dilemma. Count paper ballots by hand? Weeks & weeks and many, many hands. Online machines that the Russians.. and some Republicans.. are licking their lips over?
Florida allows counting (however they do it) as votes come in. Nevada does not. Rules about majorities differ, which is why Georgia is having both a recount and a runoff.
   Add to all that a pandemic AND a wannabe autocrat whose party is trying write laws (remember States Rights?) that suppress some voters and you have chaos. Oh... and our stupid "Electoral college" that is also in the Constitution, and it's a wonder we manage at all.

Makes you wonder how it would work if King George had been a nicer guy and England still ruled....

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 05:36 PM

If every state does it differently, all that means is there'd be 52 numbers (allowing for Washington DC and Puerto Rico). A few minutes work with a pocket calculator. Not much longer with a pencil and paper. No reason they'd all have to do the count the same way.

And there' s no valid reason that a vote in each of the state needs to take longer than a couple of days, even where their population may be comparable to nations. As for counting votes by hand taking ¿weeks and weeks" - that's the way they do it in the UK, and the results are mostly done by the next morning, and every one in a coupe of days.

As I said, no need to count all the separate votes down the ballot, they could do the top one for President, and set the the ballots aside for the rest to be counted later.

It's not a matter of being limited by an antique Constitution or by the size of the country, it's about lack of the will to do it sensibly. Which I suppose is not surprising in a country where almost half the people voted for someone like Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 06:31 PM

silence 5 days now except for tweets.

Rap had a minor stroke effecting his left arm. Repair ts scheduled for the 16th

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 06:41 PM

I have to disagree with that.
" all that means is there'd be 52 numbers" but that simply doesn't address how all those numbers are obtained. Describing how it OUGHT to work is interesting speculation, but when different states don't WANT it to work the same way, it's irrelevant.

"they could do the top one for President, and set the the ballots aside for the rest to be counted later."... umm.. set aside what? Paper ballots? Handle each ballot at least twice..maybe several times? Set aside where? Guarded by whom?

   Sorry, but it IS a matter of an antique constitution...and you simply can't refer to "lack of will" as a trait of a nation as a whole. There is lack of desire for many. The current system is an advantage to conservative states whose majorities fear 'sensible' procedures! I spent time in Mississippi in 1964 in protest of those resisting "sensible procedures" which would have allowed blacks to vote! Remember, the South tried to BE a separate country.
(You have many in England who would love to exclude recent immigrants ... and in Germany, it is even worse. It's just that there's nothing similar to 'states rights' to keep Essex & Kent from writing their own rules.
And as I type Biden's margin has gone up from 4.1 million to 5.2 million. It's one small step...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: John P
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 07:43 PM

State legislatures appoint the electors that vote in the electoral college. In about 20 states, there is no law requiring them to appoint electors who will vote according to the wishes of their state's voters. There are more Republican legislatures that Democratic ones. Trump could, and probably is, ordering states legislatures to appoint electors who will vote for him.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 09:33 PM

Trump could try to issue such an order, but he isn't legally able to tell states what to do. Any attempt to use that route to overturning the election results would result in a constitutional crisis that would be a disaster. In 30 states there ARE laws, and I doubt that any of the other 20 states would try it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 10:37 PM

The New York Times call each of the states' election administrators and not a single one responded that there were any voting irregularities that occurred during the election. Barr's order to the various federal officials around the nation is apparently a farce and has been ignored, except that one of the Washington, D.C. justice department officials overseeing this resigned in protest, assuming a different job at a lower level.

Barr and McConnell are trying to keep the Trump base engaged until the Georgia elections, to try to snag another senator or two.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 03:58 AM

Is it safe to go back in the water yet?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 12:00 PM

Not yet. Trump is loading the Pentagon with his loyal followers who are totally unskilled for the jobs. Keep your head down.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 12:22 PM

Is trump preparing for a live streamed remake of The Alamo..

..or more appropriately, The Waco siege...???

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 01:56 PM

Wait, what, rap had a stroke?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 03:37 PM

He wrote about it on a couple of other threads. He's going in for surgery next week on Monday.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 09:08 PM

"When the people become able to believe in absurdities, the people become capable of commiting atrocities"
quote Voltaire

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 04:06 AM

From ‘The New Yorker’, November 6, 2018:

In 1950, Woody Guthrie moved into an apartment at Beach Haven, a cluster of sixteen residential buildings in Gravesend, Brooklyn, just a few minutes from the creaky boardwalk and frankfurter stands at Coney Island Beach. The complex was owned and operated by Fred Trump, which means that, for the two years Guthrie lived and wrote there, Trump was his landlord. It remains unsettling to accept that their signatures co-exist on the same lease agreement.

In the nineteen-seventies, Fred Trump was accused by the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Justice Department of creating a “substantial impediment to the full enjoyment of equal opportunity” at Beach Haven; it appeared that he didn’t like to rent apartments to black people. (The case was eventually settled.)

Guthrie didn’t much like the place—he took to calling it “Bitch Havens” in his correspondence—and, in 1954, he wrote a delightfully scornful song about Trump’s discriminatory rental policies. Several handwritten drafts of the lyrics—sometimes titled “Beach Haven Race Hate,” “Beach Haven Ain’t My Home,” and “Old Man Trump”—are presently on display at the Woody Guthrie Center, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Will Kaufman, a professor of American literature and culture at the University of Central Lancashire, in Britain, was the first researcher to discover the lyrics in Guthrie’s considerable archive. (Guthrie never recorded or published the song.) Earlier this week, I went to see them in person. The first verse is explicit in its indictments:

I suppose
Old Man Trump knows
Just how much
Racial Hate
He stirred up
In the bloodpot of human hearts
When he drawed
That color line


In his best songs, Guthrie is equally seized by feelings of outrage and hope. Listening to his records is still my favorite way to remember that those feelings can productively and even beneficially co-exist—that the former doesn’t necessarily have to eradicate the latter.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 02:49 PM

In his 1765 "Questions sur les Miracles
" Voltaire wrote:

"Those who can make you believe in miracles can make you commit atrocities."

While I appreciate Dontrumpuel's free thought inclusion of out-of-the-box ideas this one comes with his usual lack of precision.

This is why you're worth having around for a thread, but need to be backchecked on, well, apparently, everything.

It's sort of like that argument that a stopped clock is right twice a day, but that doesn't mean it isn't always wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 04:21 PM

Thank goodness I'm human.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 06:06 PM

Not totally. You're pegged at 40% Russian botnet.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 07:04 PM

I'm expecting the 'Reality Enabling' Executive order
that punishes disloyalists who are contrary to the Trump delusion/reality/conspiracy.
It may take four years before the Court finds the order unconstitutional. Especially the fines that are payable directly to Trump.
Thats the spirit robo. You can improve your satire with more depth, locations and possible outcomes. I don't see Joe dancing in the streets for the Biden win, but how about you? Or are you a precise red-state-omatic robot?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 03:50 PM

Dontrumpuel, just like your trump model you are only tuned in to what affects yourself. Hence your pickup on external reality is limited. That's okay, we have your measure.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 06:20 PM

Donuel, sometimes I don't "get" your humour, and sometimes I disagree with what you say, but mostly I find your posts clever and funny, although sometimes a bit obscure, sometimes even a LOT obscure. Lateral thinking and a creative mind with a wide scope of knowledge. Keep doing what you are doing. That's my opinion. :-)

Aaahh!! Neil D, The Specials. Thank you. One of my favourite bands.

You're right, you don't need to change a word of it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 06:28 PM

Neil D's song was moved over to the "Fall of Trump" songs thread. It'd be a shame to let it get separated from the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Nov 20 - 04:41 PM

"It's sort of like that argument that a stopped clock is right twice a day, but that doesn't mean it isn't always wrong."

Of course it does. It,s just that it"s never a useful guide to time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Nov 20 - 09:48 PM

As for the scandal of the electoral college bring victory to candidates with fewer votes, as in 2000 and 2016, there could be an effective reform on the way.

I refer to the national popular vote interstate compact

It's an agreement that the states concerned commit themselves to throwing all their electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate gets the majority of popular votes nationally - but that only comes into force once enough states have signed up to ensure 270 votes.   And at present enough states have signed up to bring that into reach (mostly states which tend to vote Democrat, but not all.)

If all the states that voted for Biden this time were signed up to the compact, they'd have reached that 270. It wouldn't make any difference what any states that hadn't signed up did, the person who won most votes would still be president every time.

Of course it would tend to make the TV coverage of election night a lot less entertaining, but also rather less painful.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 12:49 AM

It would also mean that candidates could visit more than just the battleground states. There are lots of reasons to get rid of the electoral college - maybe the GOP will go along with the attempt this time (even though they lost both the electoral and the popular vote in the presidential race). It doesn't make a difference to down-ballot races.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 07:37 AM

What's the general feeling over there? Will the turnip get away with it or will he be carted out of the white house in a straight jacket?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 09:34 AM

I suspect that inertia will prevent electoral college reform, just as reform of the Commons here has long been sidelined. The electoral college seems to favour the Republican party, as we've seen several times, egregiously in 2016. The current system here of 650 MPs in uneven-sized constituencies tends to favour Labour, or at least has done in the past. Mutterings about changing it to something ostensibly fairer get muted whenever the Tories get in anyway, which is most of the time. A big deal this end would be constituency boundary changes. In my neck of the woods there has been much outrage generated in both Cornwall and England about the suggested formation of a constituency that would go across the county border in order to even up numbers of electors. Devonwall is a very dirty word in these parts!

Maybe it wouldn't be half so bad in the US if it wasn't winner-takes-all in each state. The last couple of times in Florida, for example, seats-to-votes would have been 15-14 to the Republicans both times. But, both times, they took the whole 29 instead. Of course, it could work the other way in other states. I'll leave you yanks to get your heads round the statistics of that.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 10:34 AM

Thats a good prediction of unfortunate likelyhood.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 02:48 PM

Trump is busy breaking the government as fast as he can before he has to leave the White House. Everyone is counting the days. And wondering if he'll pardon himself or if he'll step down early and have Pence pardon him. (Once he's out Pence wouldn't have to and wouldn't that be a rude surprise!)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 04:50 PM

Inside imagined courtrooms in all the battleground states ---
...No your honor, we have pro zero coefficients, derivitives and applications regarding evidence of voter fraud.
What the heck does that mean?
It means your honor while we have no evidence of voter frauds we are expanding our criminal investigations to include voter squads, voter pods, voter bods, voter mods, voter sods, voter wads, voter cods and voter gods..,
What is your purpose?
We would like the court to indulge our waste of time to make our boss think we are doing something real.

MOTION DENIED.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 05:46 PM

I believe several states have passed bills to either change how electors are chosen or to have voting be on a ranked system, where you pick 1st, 2nd & 3rd choices which means 'the points system'.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 07:01 PM

That sounds as crazy as passing 'A Mulligan Law'.
I'll have to look into that Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 03:32 AM

On BBC newsnight they were interviewing some of the rabid Turnip supporters including that mad woman who is standing for office in Georgia. If only a fraction of the other 70+ million who voted for him are as bad then, USA, you have a serious problem. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 09:43 AM

We have a serious problem.

I am personally kinda hoping he has to be removed by the Secret Service. Straightjacket optional.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 12:21 PM

Ranked voting (who are your first, second, and third choices) works and is used in a few places.

Those GOP Wayne County election officials refused to certify the votes then a compromise was agreed that the state auditor would examine any discrepancy (always the result of human error in these situations, not of major fraud). And then they said they wanted to rescind that vote. Apparently Trump has been on the phone to the woman GOP canvasser.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 09:50 PM

It's been worked out that splitting the distribution of electors the way Maine and Nebraska do would still have given Bush his victory in 2000.

But the compact to throw all a states electors to the winner of the national popular vote already is approved for states with 200 of the 270 electors needed to come into effect. It could well be sorted by the next election.

As for England and what would be left of the UK I can only see genuine reform coming in the wake of Scottish independence. So maybe not that far off.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 05:35 AM

Say what you will about Rudy's ineptitude as a lawyer and his moral bankruptcy in his attempt to thwart the will of American voters but at yesterday's presser it was apparent that he would dye for his client. I suppose the Donald will pull the plug on the old clown once again.

youtube.com

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 05:41 AM

Gilly, was it hair dye, or was his embalming fluid leaking? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 06:07 AM

Couldn't say, BW but at least they found a venue with no porn shops in sight for the head of the "Elite Strike Force".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 07:42 AM

LOL! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national erection USA - BIDEN wins
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 08:13 AM

Biden may have won but he still has to find and destroy 3 more Trump horcruxes.
1. His bathroom filthy, food sticky, tweet venom Cell Phone
2. A thong of Ivanka
3. As yet unknown.
-Good Luck Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM

There's a fourth horcrux - his gold plated personal cesspit access seat. - Which I understand also uses voice recognition direct form trump's a*** to his twitter account.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 01:59 PM

gillymor, one of the Oz TV presenters said that Rudy was having a "bad hair dye".

SPB-Cooperator, finally a logical explanation for all that $hit coming out of the White House!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 02:26 PM

It was pure darkest evil oozing out of his head..

They shouldn't spend too long out in daylight
in their thin fragile human disguise masks...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 03:42 PM

I did hear him described as a Grampire.

It could have just been a failed attempt at Rudolf Valentino sideburns.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 03:53 PM

I thought the funniest bit was that Rudy kept on wiping his face and totally missing the black ooze on either side.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 05:30 PM

pfr was right.
Rudy was notified about 7 million Trump votes found in a
putin print shop in St Petersburg Russia. Rudy is having a hard time explaining how they got there.
Shame on us for making fun of folks with dementia.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 06:32 PM

Rudy's son Andrew has tested positive for COVID 19. Is that why Rudy was sweating so heavily? He probably didn't socially distance from his son who was present at the press conference.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 07:19 PM

Trump is sullen and depressed for losing, which opens him up to prosecution despite any pardon he may try to confer upon himself.
But more than that he is facing the fact he will never become a multi billionaire. While it may never become public, there is circumstantial evidence that Trump could have been a 20% owner of Russian state oil profits in exchange for removing sanctions against Russia and allowing Pompeo to have Exxon explore and drill for oil in Russia. Do you remember Pompeo's previous job?
I am sure Trump thought he had 4 more years to make his priority of becoming truly one of the big boys and reintroduce his push to remove santions against Russia which was defeated last time around.

I could be wrong but I would not be surprised if I were right.
I am sure the Cheeto holds money above family, country and legacy.
Putin will have to cultivate a new useful idiot and stooge.
Don Jr. in 24?    Naw
W Bush has made people leary of sons of previous 1 term presidents.
Tucker Carlson?   meh
The real John Q-Anon? ugh
Mitch? maybe -   with chin implants and stopping the botox shots he could be ressurected as the bold new recipe for the GOP
With enough plastic surgury he can be rebuilt, we have the technology.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 07:25 PM

Giuliani pretty clearly was unwell during that PR session.

I'd be inclined to say the same about Trump right now. Whether it's a lingering consequence of Covid, an effect of steroids and other drugs, or a meltdown induced by his being a loser, he's in a self-destructive downward spiral. The trouble is, he seems to be taking tens of millions of others with him.

It'll make a gripping series on Netflix. Or maybe the Disney Streaming Channel.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 10:36 PM

I just saw on the news that Donald Jr has also tested positive for COVID.

McGrath of Harlow, I have been thinking along the same lines.

The only blessing is that someone, a mysterious angel, is preventing Trump from going near a microphone as much as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 10:01 AM

UNWELL? How about insane?

It does not feel like a world of right or wrong anymore.
It feels like SANE or INSANE.

Perhaps it has always been the case but its more obvious to me now.
I have always supported helping people regain their sanity...
But where and how do we profit to help Trump to regain a sanity he has never had? Sometimes there is no cure. I only know that truth and its delivery system humor, is an effective vaccine to stem the infection of insanity.

It is my belief more insanity is learned than are born with it.
Insanity itself is a pandemic. I repeat
Insanity itself has its own pandemic today.
Socially distancing ourselves from insanity has always been done.
When the insane gather on social media, infection spreads uncontrolably. Its spreads even faster when the incompetant are paid money or salaries to repeat insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 10:13 AM

Napoleon was ultimately exiled to a tiny remote island with no internet connection,

[don't know if it had a golf course...???]..

.. just saying...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 03:05 AM

Napoleon was poisoned with lead too. May be too good for the Turnip.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: BobL
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 03:45 AM

Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 05:13 AM

Trump has magnanimously allowed the transition to proceed without conceding defeat. Look for some of those spineless GOP senators who have remained silent thus far to finally speak up and praise him for acting in the best interests of the country. January 20 can't come too soon,

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 07:15 AM

Napoleon was poisoned with lead too. May be too good for the Turnip. I'd heard he (Napoleon) suffered from Arsenic poisoning (probably not fatally). But this is the first I've heard of suggestions of lead poisoning.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 07:22 AM

Neither of those, according to National Geograhic.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 08:16 AM

Yea, I got my wires crossed :-( Mea Culpa. I remembered hearing the arsenic may have been due to high levels in Wallpaper

I misremembered it as being lead in paint!

Still, seeing as both were likely to be wrong I guess it doesn't matter :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 10:08 AM

Fifty Ways to Leave the White House - (parody)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 10:53 AM

Ooh it's a music thread now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 12:26 PM

Neither of those, according to National Geograhic.

Actually, the National Geographic appears to confirm that he was suffering from Arsenic poisoning. I carefully didn't posit it as the cause of his death. (See the Lord Peter Wimsey story "Strong Poison").

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 12:52 PM

He definitely died of something....

errrmmm.. lead poisoning.. is there still much lead in bullets...???


Dictators tend not to have 'happy endings'..

[and we are not talking about visits from escorts and porn actresses...]

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 12:53 PM

Silly me, thinking this thread would be discussing the Biden election win and here you are talking about Napoleon and lead poisoning.

Back to the subject at hand, https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/11/24/938344591/facing-pressure-trump-relents-on-starting-transition

President Trump is still not conceding that he lost the election, but he's getting closer.

Trump on Monday tweeted that he had directed the General Services Administration to begin the process of transferring the government to President-elect Joe Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 01:02 PM

We are still discussing extreme options for trump's removal,
but tactfully in metaphor and allegory...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 02:08 PM

Ah - I didn't scroll way back. That's the only way to discuss the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 02:37 PM

Wow! What a list! I hope he can make significant headway. He has a high mountain to climb just to try to restore balance and normality after these crazy times.

Joe Biden's first 100 days as US president — this is what he promises to do

As an ex-union member and delegate - now retired - this paragraph is good news:

"The president-elect is big on unions as well — he says he'll deliver a plan to "dramatically increase union density and address economic inequality" in his first 100 days."

For me, unions work towards giving workers a voice and support instead of business owners and managers getting all the power. It helps to equalise some of that power and provide some balance through two-way communication. Yes, it can be confrontational, but it doesn't have to be. The unions I belonged to worked with the people in charge and helped to achieve some very good outcomes for both the organisation and the people working and managing there. IMHO

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 02:53 PM

Healthy union and boss relations
should work positively for the mutual benefit of both..

Bosses should value Unions as key allies and business assets..

should......

.. oh sorry.. must have been day dreaming...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 06:51 PM

Larry Dav... I mean Bernie Sanders maybe Sec. of Labor.

Helen
Do you guys ever eat Marin? - We don't have those huge crawfish here.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 08:42 PM

The emasculation of trade unions over the last three decades in this country has been nothing short of criminal. The upshot is that bosses can sack you on a whim, can give you a short-term contract with no protections whatsoever, can hire you then ring you up first thing to tell you there's no work today, see ya tomorrow, can tell you that you have to pay your own own national insurance and, don't make me laugh, sick pay and holiday pay my arse...

The ugliest euphemism ever coined is that we now have "a flexible jobs market."   That's weasel-speak for we'll sack you whenever we like, we'll take you on but we might not pay you today, you can have three months in work but you'll have to bugger off once we don't need you to clean the caravans until next spring...

And the people who suffer under this quasi-fascist regime are suffering three times worse because of the virus. The ones who didn't suffer still aren't suffering. What a wonderful world...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 07:17 AM

Lil' Marco is once again trying to become lil' Trump:

Huffpost

Those are some big spanks to fill, you'd think he would have learned his lesson after the "small hands" thing.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 11:24 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 08:42 PM

The emasculation of trade unions over the last three decades in this country has been nothing short of criminal.

Should this be in the UK politics thread? It doesn't appear to be a rant about US politics.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 12:20 PM

It relates to Helen's post. Trade unionism is multinational. Stop stirring it, Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 05:20 PM

Virginia is a Right to Work state. No unions.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 07:26 PM

No unions means no worker protection. I admire your naive trust in the boss class.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 08:07 PM

It ain't 'naive trust', it's a remnant from Virginia's conservative past. Virginia is changing rapidly and I rather expect that 'right to work' law may be changed soon.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 08:25 PM

Well we could be divided by a common language here, Bill. This end, Conservative means anti-union, pro-boss, "flexible labour market" (aka hire and fire at will), zero-hours contracts, no job security. Thatcher saw to that here in the 1980s and Blair (Tory-lite) did nothing to reverse it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 11:14 PM

yanks seem to regard unions as organised crime mob syndicates...???

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 02:52 AM

Not all, PFR

Union miners, stand together
Do not heed the owner's taleI

I bet the Turnip loves that one :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 03:51 AM

.. oh yeah.. nowadays, it's too easy to forget there used to be proper lefty yanks,
singing rousing union solidarity songs;
while getting their skulls bashed in by Boss's hired thugs...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 01:18 PM

Unions are important but have been diminishing, mostly because the GOP don't like that unions are usual supporters of Democratic candidates and causes. They've busted them as fast as they can. Hopefully that will change. Right to work states are wretched. I grew up in a strong union and Wobblie state (Washington) - at one time East coast Republicans used to refer to it as "the Soviet of Washington." Trying to smear the unions.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 03:01 PM

Yeah, I have no trust in bosses.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 03:44 PM

Well I'm incredibly old-fashioned and outmoded in my views, but I come from a family in which not belonging to a trade union is regarded as immoral. We pay our dues, which pay our reps and union negotiators, they get us the best pay and conditions they can*, then non-members get the same deal? Well stuff that for a game of soldiers. The people who choose to be non-members should not get the deal that we've paid our reps to get for us. And if the management give them the same deal anyway, we should strike. Of course, none of that ever happens. The boss class can sack us, shit on our working conditions, impose short hours, close the factory. We have only our labour as a bargaining stick. But that bargaining stick has been taken away from us.

I haven't spent a single day without being a member of my union since I left teacher training college, and I'll remain a member until the day I die.

*Which they can't even negotiate for us any more...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 10:30 PM

Donald Trump says he will leave the White House if Joe Biden is confirmed by electoral college:

"It is the nearest Mr Trump has come to a concession.

"Mr Trump has so far refused to concede the election and continues to claim without evidence that the election was marred by widespread fraud, and that he and not Mr Biden won it."

So in his own parallel universe this doesn't mean he has given up the "fight" for "justice".

Whatevs!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 12:36 PM

He is all about enriching himself, protecting himself, and enriching his family. I suspect we are going to see the most bizarre collection of family-related pardons coming down the pike. It makes you wonder about all of them if they accept these pardons. We know they're feeding at the public trough, pardons will simply confirm that they broke laws in the process.

Lovely family, that.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 01:31 PM

Yes, lovely family indeed! Not! All praise the mighty dollar.

One thing I read was that the pardons only relate to federal matters and apparently there is a state based court system which has been looking into Trump's tax situation and playing their cards very close to their chest. I'm holding out hope that his withholding of tax records might come back to bite him, big time.

I saw a TV show and bought the book called A$$holes: a theory, by Aaron James. (It's not spelled with the dollar signs. I'm being polite.) Very interesting take on a specific personality type. Not surprisingly, Trump is mentioned in the book but it was published before 2016 so I'm expecting Mr James might publish an updated edition at some point after 20 January 2021. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 05:41 PM

Oh, I can just imagine the number of books that are being planned, written or updated these days. The Washington Post could simply publish their list of lies told in the last 4-5 years.   And various EX-federal employees will be able to write about stuff they weren't allowed to.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 05:23 AM

Helen, this Washington Post article describes the legal minefield the old flim flam man will have to navigate post-presidency. Hopefully it won't be all tee times and hookups with porn stars during the remainder of his golden years.

WaPo

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 05:43 AM

gillymor, keberoxu posted a link to an article in the thread about Mary Trump's take on her uncle, and a video on that page has a journalist discussing the legal actions which could be initiated against the Trumpster:

Trump Is Gaslighting Himself

The headline on the video is: Trump's Post-Presidential Criminal Nightmare Begins

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 05:59 AM

He's slippery like a frog but what I wouldn't give to see him do a perp walk on network television.

Subject: RE: my prediction
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 07:03 AM

Since he can't resign due to his psych condition he will try to pardon himself. It is safer to have Pence pull a Gerald Ford than do a self pardon. Donald will eventually face similar federal tax charges as Al Capone which has poetic justice.

NYS will have the last word but will run into trouble extradicting him from FL to NY. Trump tower could be sold to pay legal fees :^}

How could Trump tower in NYC be repurposed? How about the one in Chicago?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 10:58 AM

Trump tower repurposed? A complete no-brainer -   luxury temporary accommodation for those seeking asylum and going through the application process. Partly, because it would give the white supremacists an apoplectic fit.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 11:06 AM

I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK COOPORATOR

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 11:57 AM

..and rename it Obama Tower...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 12:02 PM

Or Faulty Tower, in memory of the bloke who had it...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 12:52 PM

I asked before but got no reply and things have moved on since anyway.

What's the view in the US? Will the Turnip get his second term of will be be carried off in a straight jacket?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 01:20 PM

What the heck ails actor Jon Voight?!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 01:55 PM

IF Trump pardons himself, he's admitting guilt, then, if he wants to run again in 2024, it could be a problem.
It might not be, for him, because his dedicated minions don't really care how evil he is.

But then, the more time between the end of THIS presidency and then, the more truth will come out, and the Trumpy furvor will cool down.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 02:23 PM

..then, in the meantime, sneaky un-American covid might pay the corrupt clown a visit again...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 04:47 PM

It took more than 4 years for folks to see the shortcomings of W.
a href="https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2011/NGC-6822.jpg">Red vs Blue
Donald is more likely to have a misadventure with a ramp or stairs.
My personal favorite Trump end would be Melania having snapped after an abusive episode. Melania in the bedroom with the lead pipe/Trophy.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 05:17 PM

I am still hoping he either moves out in a huff as soon as the electoral college votes, or has to be removed by force.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 03:22 AM

I have a feeling he'll be in Mar a Lago come the Biden/Harris inauguration but to see him frog-marched from the White House by U.S. Marshals or disgruntled Secret Service agents would be the bomb.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 06:13 AM

We should all be seriously concerned about what is going on in Iran. It seems highly likely that Trump, the Crown Prince and Netanyahu are in cahoots over the assassination, and let's not forget that Trump has form in this regard, ordering as he did the murder of General Suleimani earlier this year. The best thing that could happen is Iran refusing to retaliate, but I have a feeling that we may see more provocative aggression towards Iran before Trump goes. He's such a bloody idiot that he might see the fomenting of conflict in the region as his triumphant going out with a bang. He's certainly making Bidens' job in trying to reduce tension the region much more difficult, if not impossible, which, of course, would be another one of Trump's motives.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 06:25 AM

Trump's recent lame duck moves:
Iraq, Afghnistan troop withdrawl
Tightening immigration and wall spending
Stripping protections for Federal workers
Cutting funding for lending programs\Federal executions
Pardins coming
Enviormental rollbacks
Actions against China and Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 06:35 AM

Well, obligatory rhetoric aside, the Iranian leadership has so far shown a lot more restraint and maturity than the US leadership. Let's hope it stays that way. It might not.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 07:56 AM

I for one do not want to see martyr status confered onto Donald trump
by throwing him in jail like Hitler where he ghost wrote Mein Kampf.
Mortality at 74 is already on our side. Why push it?

The deadly villains greater than Trump are organizatons like Fox News which are supporting death threats to people like Dr. Fauci by saying he is respondsible for business shut downs and canceling Christmas. Fox News is reporting that the safest air to breathe is on airplanes and tyrants are interferring in college and pro Football.
"Liberty and freedom is under seige by democrats". Virus deniers and apologists are still going full blast under Murdoch's watch. The Fox favorite war on Christmas theme is now over the top. They are yelling "Don't let the secular destroy and cancel CHRISTMAS".

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM

The brain's ability to change and adapt is neural plasticity.
It seems to me Trump's lack of life changing challenges has allowed him to resist all the advantages of brain plasticity and learning.
This is fundamentally what he has in common with his base be they the wealthy with nice boats and houses or those who have also abandonned education but at the lowest socio-economic level.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 08:35 AM

There is no deadlier villain than the villain who tries to foment unrest in tbe Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 10:30 AM

No kidding. It is beginning to look like Israel struck with the approval of the Trump administration. Pompeo wasn't there for nothing last week. This seems to be a destabilizing effort to prevent Biden from resuming diplomatic efforts. They really are a nasty bunch of gits, with their dog in the manger approach to management.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 05:48 PM

I recall Iran responded to the assasination of their military general with a missle strike. A chief nuclear scientist may trump a general's death and a more drastic retaliation may be in the offing, such as the kidnapping/hostage taking of Jared. Trump would not send a nuclear strike over Jared. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 08:38 PM

I rather assume the plan is that Iran should be pushed into a retaliation which will provide a reason for a major attack on Iran either by Israel or the USA or both. Trump getting his own back on Biden by landing him with a very nasty situation, and closing down hopes of getting a fresh peace deal with Iran.

It's only too likely that Trump is setting in motion his Heritage War. If Iran holds off on falling into the trap I suspect there are more terrorist acts against Iran in store from Israel/Trumpland, ready to rolled out in the dying days of this regime.

I gather a sizeable US Navy force has just been deployed in the Persian Gulf.

I think this could be about the most potentially disastrous scenario since the Cuban Missile Crisis. When none of the leaders involved were actually off their heads, which you can't say today with any confidence.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 08:49 PM

Kevin, that seems to be the general understanding regarding what happened. And analysts are suggesting that Iranian leaders see the layout of the plan and will probably not strike out, because Biden is their only hope to get back to the status before Trump.

Another thing out there in the Twitterverse is that Trump seems to have been so confident that he could get the absentee votes tossed out via judges that he urged Republican voters to vote in person so their votes would count. He was hoping to toss all of the mailed in Democratic votes.

Trump's goals are transparent and his advice to voters is a word that is been used an awful lot lately - transactional. If it doesn't serve him, he wouldn't advise it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 03:01 PM

Certainly is worrisome considering the whiney bad mood of the donald.
Regarding the hit on the scientist: a remote controlled AI machine gun was used. AI is used to make driverless cars safer and machine guns deadlier. Its getting more like the Terminator every day.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 03:49 PM

I was wasting time early this morning wondering how many letters of the alphabet could be applied to the Trumpster's misdemeanors and characteristics.

I came up with at least one item for each letter of the alphabet except for "z" although a word popped into my head which may be relevant.

I won't remember all the words but this is a sample:

Aggressive,
Bleach, Black Lives Matter
COVID 19, concede, criminal investigations
Debt
Electoral fraud (alleged),
Fake news, fake tan
Golf,
Hydroxychoroquine,
Impeachment, immigration
Justice,
K
Legal challenges
Masks, Mary Trump's book
Narcissistic
OTT (over the top),
Porno star, proud boys, pardons
Q Anon
Russian interference, reckless endangerment of life, Rudy Giuliani, rallies
Sociopathic, support base, sexism, Supreme Court
Tax audit, throw toys from the pram
Unfounded electoral fraud allegations
Vaccines, voter fraud allegations
White supremacists, wikileaks,
X-rated
Yellow haired, yellow bellied low-life
Zeitgeist*

*Zeitgeist definition in the Merriam Webster dictionary is - "the general intellectual, moral, and cultural climate of an era". In this case the "era" would be the four years since 2016.

I thought of more words this morning but I'm sure I'll remember them later.

Feel free to add more.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 05:11 PM

Lovely piece here

Reporting on a shambolic American election

Partly tongue in cheek but contains a lot of truth.

Careful in the US you are being monitored. It's from Al Jazeera and I wouldn't like you to get a late night knock on the door ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 06:47 PM

I forgot:

"Knowing" he won the election, "knowing" the election was fraudulent

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 09:23 PM

For the benefit of world stability and peace.
It's only fair all the nations USA invaded to take out rogue regime dictators,
get their turn forming a peace keeping coalition
to occupy America and remove trump...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 11:49 PM

I would never credit Trump with somehow being associated with the Zeitgeist. Hillary won the popular vote, the Zeitgeist was simply taken out at the knees by the Electoral College. But it's back.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 02:59 AM

Zapped

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 04:52 AM

L for loser.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 06:57 AM

Helen excellent experiment. You've created a backbone for new lyrics to attach to. Like; 'M is for the many'... mother song.

As the republican govenor of of Arizona was certifying the vote live on TV, Trump called his cell phone. Hail to the Chief ringtone rang out as the govenor deftly muted and ignored the call.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 09:52 AM

I saw that replay on MSNBC - and I hope not only Trump saw it, but Leslie Jones (SNL, Ghost Busters, etc.) saw it - she has a hilarious routine on Instagram, videoing her TV and offering commentary. That should be a good one!

Trump is still hoping that he can get all of the mailed in ballots eliminated, so the in-person GOP voters will win the day. But judges are dismissing his avatars out of hand.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 10:48 AM

What is unbelievable is that Trump lies, and I'm starting to think he doesn't know they're lies. But then, the Republican sycophants encourage and support him. They're eventually going to have to answer for it, but is this NOT "the emperor's new clothes" in real life?

If it were satire, it'd be hilarious.
If it were a movie, it would be panned for being over-the-top ridiculous.
In real life, I'm pretty glad I don't own a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 12:13 PM

Trump steaks, wine, university, shirts & ties, underwear with teflon skid mark protector...

He is so in debt one thing he could sell in his retirement is that he's
full of Trumpshit. "In a jar with golden lettering it will sit proudly on your mantle for only 69.99 plus shitting and handling."

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 12:32 PM

Various psychologists have speculated for several years about possible ways to define what he shows in his continuous mental quirks.
He seems to combine narcissism, amorality, aggression, obsession, greed.. and several others in odd combinations.

His niece, Mary, laid it out pretty well in her book and various interviews. Whatever you call it/them, the practical result of his 'inaccurate statements', whether he KNOWS they are lies or not, it that everyone of them requires more of them. There's no way to get out of the hole has dug for himself and others he has dragged down with him.
There's no doubt he is technically guilty of various crimes.. the only question left is whether it is worth the trouble to investigate, indict and prosecute them, knowing how long it would take and the resultant obsession in the news while we need to concentrate on the NEXT 4 years.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 12:46 PM

Correction: Only THREE easy payments of 69.99 and you can own a piece of shit from the Great eliminator and chief. To double your oder just double the shitting and handling fee ($119.99.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 01:09 PM

I tend to agree with Mary Trump's assessment that he is a sociopath. One of the traits of sociopaths is that they do not have to believe their own lies, but just say them all with a straight face. And in Trump's case, say them over and over again in the hope that repetition makes them true. There is no empathy, no concern for the consequences of the lies and other actions, it all boils down to doing or saying whatever it takes to get their own way.

In an Oz ABC News article about whether criminal action could be taken against Trump, one comment was that it might not be worth alienating the remaining Trump supporters when Biden's aim is to unify America again.

Personally, it would give me some karmic/comeuppance style satisfaction to see him face the music, and I don't even live in America, but I think unifying America is a worthy ambition and it is desperately needed right now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 01:23 PM

The difference between Putin and Trump is that Donal fails to murder maim or jail opponents. That is th best I can say for him. (low barr)

Instead he is lashing out by tweet at fellow Republicans that fail to support his coup and instead follow the Constitution, which is something that McConnel and friends have yet to do. Yep Trump is the kind of of stark two dimentional villain Jack London wrote about in Call of the Wild who lashed and beat dogs with clubs.

Georgia Republicans are trying to convince voters that the "rigged election" won't apply to the 2 Senate seats up for grabs. Sorry Charlie it is hard to undo your own conspiracy theory in only 30 days.

50 days until A NEW HOPE despite the Phantom menace and the empire striking back at the the revenge of the Sith.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 06:23 AM

However Trump is willing to murder by associative means be it ny virus or by independant gunman operating from disimformation.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 08:21 AM

The scandal de jour is about people bribing Donald for a pardon. The court documents were sealed since August to not influence the election, again. The NYT broke the story now that a redacted version of the court documents are now public.

White house legal counsel is frenetically working on a brand new pardon product that pre pardons, pardons bribery, protects against all possible past&future crimes and confers innocense instead of guilt.

So far the leading political invention is a new attorney client priviledge as well as changing the foundation of law of 'No man is above the law' to a new "No man is above the law
WITH ONE EXCEPTION".

The legal argument to support this is 'Trump is not a Man'.
It certainly is debatable. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 08:39 AM

Trump is a sociopath and a psychopath

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 08:45 AM

So are many CEO's and people whose ambition is to control others by any means in exchange for power.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 09:10 AM

I have thought about solutions to the sociopath problem in society for decades. I realize that there are certain circumstances in human evolution that sociopaths may have helped the species. These Reptillian people today are more harmful than helpful imo. A second enlightenment is growing to psychologically regulate the sociopath.
Trump is a good example we can learn from.
Will we (the societal we) learn?
A never again campaign regarding Hitlers and Stalins is as short term as generational memory.
I am at a loss for long term solutions.
Final solutions are illusory and evil.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 09:44 AM

I suppose some elements of religion were designed to avoid the dangers of the sociopath but given time religion itself is prone to the sociopaths within.

How anout thepardon scandal?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 07:38 PM

Anything that happens in life
Can happen in DC
You can make 'em mad
You can make 'em cry
Anything and everything goes

(Chorus)
[SCHUMER]
The clown
With his tweets falling down
Or the case
Right before arraignment
Or the man
That the country can't stand
That's entertainment!

[PELOSI]
The lights
On first ladies in tights

[BIDEN]
Or the bride
With a guy on the side

[SCHUMER]
Or the ball
Where she, infects them all

[BIDEN, SCHUMER, AND PELOSI]
That's entertainment!

[PELOSI]
The plot
Could be hot
Simply teeming with porn

[SCHUMER]
A gay
Senator
Who is after his ex

[BIDEN]
It could be Oedipus Rex

[SCHUMER]
Where a teen kills off the Congress
And gun nuts have wronged us.

[NANCY]
The jerk
Who is thrown out of work

[JOE]
By the boss
Who is thrown for a loss

[CHUCK]
By the flirt
Who is doing him dirt

[ALL]
The world is a stage
The stage is DC
Its entertainment!

(instrumental break)

[ALL]
The doubt
While the jury is out
Or the drill
When the judge has his fill
Or the case
For the man in disgrace
That's entertainment!

[NANCY]
The dame
Who is known as the flame

[CHUCK]
Of the king
Of an underworld ring

[CHUCK AND JOE]
He's an ape
Who won't let her escape

[ALL]
That's entertainment!
It might
Be a fight
Like you see on the screen
A gang
Getting banged
For the love of some cash
For some huge party bash
At a spot that really is sweet
And everyone ends in mincemeat.
The gag
Where he's waving the flag
That began
With a crooked con man
Hip hip hooray
The American way!
The world is a stage
The stage in DC
Is entertainment!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 02:11 AM

Is Trumps foreign policy any worse than any other president of the USA?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 05:27 AM

You mean, apart from striving to make an enemy of China, ditching the Paris Accords, backing out from the Iran nuclear deal, giving perpetual succour to a vicious Israeli regime, alienating Mexico with his wall threat and getting into bed with Putin?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 06:39 AM

Then there's his admiration for and envy of other strong men around the world, besides Putin, including those in North Korea, Turkey and Libya. His state department doesn't give a fig about human rights unless it involves Evangelical Christians. He's severely damaged relations with our NATO allies.
This world is lot less safe since this greedy, self-serving incompetent jerk took office.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 07:20 AM

no, i am wondering how history will judge him on his actions, is he anymore of a warmonger than other USA presidents, how does he compare to Bush or Nixon or Reagan Johnson Obama

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 07:27 AM

I think that history's main judgement will be "thank Christ he didn't win a second term..."

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 07:56 AM

ok , i find him narcissitic and crass, but let us look at his policies , yes building a wall is unpleasant however it boosts his economy by employing people in public works, granted there are undoubtedly better public works to be concentrating on.
so he is friendly with Putin , well that means no nuclear war between the two
did he bomb iraq did he send troops in to vietnam, did he precipitate a war with the soviet union over the bay of pigs, did he invade afghanistan., did he murder allende

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 08:10 AM

i do not like soviet imperialism, chines imperialism or usa imperialis. gillymor who does he admire in libya?did bush care about human rights. who was president in 1970 when allende was murdered by the usa

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 08:28 AM

I get all that, Dick, and there's no bigger critic of US (and UK) foreign policy down the decades than me. A running sore since WW2 has been America's unconditional support of repressive and bellicose Israeli regimes. But pulling out of climate accords and falling out with China are extremely dangerous for the whole planet, so I repeat, thank Christ he didn't win another term.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 10:31 AM

Anything that happens in life
Can happen in DC
You can make 'em crab
You can make 'em mad
Anything and everything goes

(Chorus - Thats entertainment)
[SCHUMER]

The clown,
With his tweets falling down
Or the case
of the man in disgrace
Or the scam
That the country can't stand
That's entertainment!

[PELOSI]
The lights,
On first ladies in tights

[BIDEN]
Or the pride,
Of Nazis worst side

[SCHUMER]
Or the ball,
Where Trump, infected them all

[BIDEN, SCHUMER, AND PELOSI]
That's entertainment!

[PELOSI]
The plot.
Could be hot
Simply teaming with porn

[SCHUMER]
Lindsey's
forlorn and
misses his ex

[BIDEN]
John McCain
but there never was sex

[SCHUMER]
Obstruction by the Congress
Feels like they have wronged us.

[NANCY]
The jerk
Who is thrown out of work

[JOE]
By the boss
Who is thrown for a lo$$

[CHUCK]
By a flirt
Who is doing him dirt

[ALL]
The world is a stage
The stage is DC
Thats entertainment!

(instrumental break)

[ALL]
The doubt
While the jury is out
Or the drill
When the judge has his fill
Or the case
Of the man who's disgraced
That's entertainment!

[NANCY]
The whore
Donald called Storm

[CHUCK]
He's the king
Of an underworld ring

[CHUCK AND JOE]
He yells fake
and tries to escape

[ALL]
That's entertainment!
It might
Be a fight
Like you see on TV
A show
that blows
About who stays or who goes
By a huge childish creep
In a time slot that is sweet

And everyone ends in mincemeat.

The gag
Where he's waving the flag
That began
With a crooked con man
Hip hip hooray
The American way!
The world is a stage
The stage in DC
THATS entertainment!


[the fading voice of Trump] "Trump for president to Infinity and beyond".


donuel

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 10:34 AM

If trump does get evicted he will instead become a constant festering open sore
in Biden's backside..

He'll set out to mobilise his demented faithful into pursuing every nasty trick
to destabilise his successor's positive agenda...

With or without the republican parties agreement and willing compliance..

.. trump's a 2nd rate meglomaniac 'Bond villain' personified...

[one of the really crap villains out of the worst Bond movies...]

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 12:21 PM

Donald Stavro Blohole?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 06:28 PM

Dr. No nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 05:37 AM

Something fishy is going on in Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 07:03 AM

Behind the kitchens of Trump hotel restaurants
the dumpsters are fermenting and distilling
a dumpster juice that is rotten but addictive.
Sure it is toxic but artificially sweetened
so the rotten after taste makes people drink more
sweetened dumpster juice to hide the rotten flavor.
Compared to salty Liberal tears dumpster juice
has more appeal among people who don't drink wine.
The older crowd drink beer with special additives.
It was invented by think tanks that aspire
to better politics through chemistry by mixing
Oxytocin with Soma, blocking foward brain function
while instilling a blind trust and unquestioned belief.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 07:44 AM

The toxic elixers of the right wing while powerful
are not why people show up at Trump rallies.
They show up because they are all white.
They are watching their slim majority
and supreamacy now fade and fear
the other colorful Americans.
They cultivate victimhood
of the wealthy white
Billionares with
boats, planes.
mansions,
banks
and
...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 08:28 AM

Much as i dislike trump and his childish bullying tantrums, he was only a puppet, who really pulls the strings, and was he any worse than nixon or johnson or bush or any other of the warmongering presidents

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 08:33 AM

people on this forum thought that things would change with obama, but they did not OBAMAwas another puppet of a different colour, he was more personable and charming than trump, but how different apart from the wall were his policies?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 09:41 AM

They must have been very different or else Trump wouldn't have rolled them back.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 10:16 AM

Dick - as far as USA presidents go, trump must be without doubt
the worst shite of the lot..

Take all the shitty bits of all the other presidents.
roll it up like a busy dung beetle would into a huge shit ball,
then coat it in a thick layer of even more shit..

.. that's trump...

For extra amusement spray the shit ball orange
and poke a tuft of of cat's puked up hair on top...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 01:12 PM

Well said, pfr! :-D

I particularly like the Trump toilet brush. It would be very satisfying cleaning the toilet with that big yellow brush springing out of a plastic Trump head.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 01:44 PM

pfr could you back that up with examples of how his foreign policy was any more war mongering than the presidents i memtioned. i am not talking about posturing but about actual invasions of other countries , he did not invade vietnam afganistan iraq,or kiling allende or bin laden neither was he responsible for bay of pigs, i dont like him ok but answer the questions

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 02:01 PM

Obama's POLICIES were pretty diametrically opposed. That Congress refused to meet with him and prevented any of them from being implemented does not detract from that. You can lead a horticulture...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 02:04 PM

He didn't need to invade other countries. His negligence and arrogance has killed nearly 300,000 of the American people so far. One in twenty of the entire population of the U.S. has been infected with COVID 19. To make it worse, one of his major promises was to disband Obamacare, and then health care became one of the most important issues to the people who were sick and dying.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 02:27 PM

Dick - no I won't dance to your tune...

You've got another bee in your bonnet which I will not indulge..

If for whatever perverse reason you are making a claim that trump
is no worse than other presidents,
and nothing quite as bad as h1tler or st@lin;
so he's not really that bad a bloke..

go ahead.. knock yerself out..

Personally, I'd agree with you that US presidents are far too powerful
for the rest of the world's good..

The key difference is trump is the mad man in power right now,
with his itchy trigger finger
hovering closer down towards the nukes button...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 02:38 PM

Editing blooper..

Should have typed...

"nothing quite as evil"...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 03:56 PM

i did not say he was a not bad bloke

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 05:17 PM

The key difference is trump is the mad man in power right now,
with his itchy trigger finger
hovering closer down towards the nukes button... quote
there is no evidence of that, however stupid his home policy is as regards covid and wall building, and however silly his election crybaby tactics were

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 05:34 PM

Trump may have just been indulging in macho posturing. So was Saddam Hussein over WMDs. The USA got rid of the madman in Iraq and then voted one into their own throne.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 05:41 PM

Dick - no point debating this with me..

I'm by nature wary of American political and cultural domination..

Despite me being a huge enthusiast for so much of the great USA music and movies..

You really need to ask our yank mates how much they are afraid of trump
still hogging the nuclear bomb codes until he's dragged out of the white house...???

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 05:51 PM

And that his closest affinity to other world leaders appears to be towards dictators.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 06:16 PM

Everything is just about over, the final canvassing, the electoral college. I've read speculation that Trump won't return to the White House after the xmas holidays. Fine with most of us - it would give the National Park Service time to clean the place up and get documents to the National Archives.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 07:14 PM

This may be the first time the Archives will preserve tweets.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 08:40 PM

Twitter and bisted (i.e. bitter and twisted).

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 03:14 AM

I am critical of his domestic policy.
I was asking questions about his foreign policy in comparison with other USA presidents
Dave Gnome points out that it was another president that removed and liquidated Saddam Hussein after the USA had been supporting him for years the usa WERE HAPPY TO SUPPORT THIS SUPPOSED MADMAN FOR YEARSand then happy to liquidate their puppet when it suited ,Trump was not in charge at that time.
Trump has less power than he thinks and will very shortly be another back number. the USA foreign policy for years has been in invading and interfering in the middle east the far east chile cuba, none of which was Trumps fault.
let us try and look at Trumps foreign policy rationally and analyse it and compare it to other USA presidents.
Trumps domestic policy has been divisive and incompetent as regards handling of covid

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 03:36 AM

Dick - are we here in Europe safer, or more at risk right now,
as a direct result of trump's petulant erratically antagonistic foreign policy...???

I'd be more inclined to be worried about the latter...

So far, we survived all the previous war mongering impulses of the USA..
Previous Presidents had some sane self restraint..

Ok, we might not cop it so bad if the missiles only fly back and forth across the Pacific...?????

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 03:43 PM

No, i do not feel endangered by Trump.
I think his domestic policy is very bad, he will be gone by the end of januaryhe has less power than he thinks he will soon be a back number. i feel sorry for people living in the states his incompetent handling of covid is more of a risk to them, than any usa attack on europe

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 09:44 PM

Another fivolous trump lawsuit was given to the Supream Court. Today they said "talk to the hand, we're not even gonna listen to it."
The trump team is actually sueing each every elector of the Pennsylvnia electoral college to not certify the vote.

I think he won't give up until he sues every democrat who voted wrong, which should take about 4 years.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 05:38 AM

Keep your fingers crossed. There's a long time to go to till he's forced to leave the White House. There's a very good chance he'll have ignited a war with Iran in cahoots with Israel and Saudi Arabia before he's gone.

Perhaps the best hope is that he keeps his intention on domestic matters, which seems pretty exclusively to mean, building his status as the record breaking vexatious litigant and serial loser of all time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 06:56 AM

There is 989 hours to go.
The Trump legal team did not decide to sue every single Democrat.
INSTEAD they decided to have Texas sue all the battleground states that voted for Biden. This is more bizarre than my suggestion.
I guess the point is to keep the process of legal challenge going no matter how absurd. I think they can PROVE ERECTION FRAUD but they can't seem to bring a single case of election fraud.
With 3,000 deaths a day from Covid, any distraction in a storm will do.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 SEDITION against USA - BIDEN
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:25 AM

Congress has until midnight tonight or the government shuts down on Dec. 18.

Like cookies and milk or hot dogs with beans SHUTDOWN and SEDITIiON go together.

The issues avoided are overturning a democratic election and any Covid relief bill for those facing eviction and food insecurity..

With the number of deaths equal to the battle of Gettysburg EVERY DAY from Covid disease in America, I would hope the Republican shutdown of government trick could be avoided just this once.

I told you this was coming and now its here today until midnight.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 09:52 AM

You can tell who the Trump supporters are these days. They didn't take down signs or flags after the election. They refuse to wear masks, or to wear them correctly. And when you ask them to put the mask on they're churlish or downright rude about it. They are among us and they mean to gum up the works if they can. They are proof that there is such a thing as contagious insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 11:26 AM

Three more days to another deadline... Supposedly the last one. On verra.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 01:01 PM

Of course even if Congress agrees to keep the government open, a gracious and thankful Trump has to sign it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 01:11 PM

Why do you democracy loving yanks so willingly gift one individual
with such absolute powers of despotic monarchy...!!!?????

.. hmmm.. thats a reminder to watch "The Madness of King George" again if it's on streaming...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 01:32 PM

What What

A Declaration of Independance from the United states was signed by 106 republican congressmen today https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-lawsuit-supreme-court-106-house-republicans/

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 05:32 PM

Republicans want to simplify elections with the Election Fainess Act.
Heads Republicans win, Tails Democrats lose.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:16 PM

Has this case that Texas is bringing against the other states got any chance? Even if it has, surely if the votes are invalid in some states, they must be in them all? Don't tell me we have to go through this pantomime again!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:50 PM

Scuttlebut says the Court will make an announcement tonight.
You can guess my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 07:00 PM

Yep the court just rejected the Texas long shot.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 08:47 PM

Go Scotus.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 09:25 PM

From National Public Radio:

The U.S. Supreme Court on Friday night rejected an eleventh hour challenge to Joe Biden's election as president.
The court's action came in a one-page order, which said the complaint was denied "for lack of standing."
Texas, supported by President Trump, tried to sue Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Michigan, claiming fraud, without evidence. But in order for a state to bring a case in court, especially the Supreme Court, a state must show it has been injured. In essence, the court said Texas could not show that it was injured by the way other states conducted their elections.

As I explained to my wife, "lack of standing" means that it's none of Texas's goddamn business how Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Michigan conduct elections within their borders.
Texas may restrict absentee ballots and allow only one ballot drop box per county, but that doesn't mean that other states have to follow suit.

We need to bring back the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and put a stop to these attempts to suppress voters.

Hurray!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 02:22 AM

Thanks Joe and that Hurray is seconded by many here too.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 04:12 AM

This has got to burn the old con man's britches, he's been openly touting the SCOTUS as his ace in the hole for some months now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 04:59 AM

Ken Paxton, the Texas AG who's as crooked as a dog's hind leg, no doubt initiated this frivolous and ridiculous lawsuit in order to get one of those presidential pardons that trump freely doles out for his guilty, unpenitent and undeserving loyal allies.

Ken Paxton at Wiki

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:31 PM

I wonder of the UK betting parlors have any money on whether Trump will return to the White House after xmas holidays? There has been discussion of his walking away from it all now. (Wishful thinking?)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:43 PM

.. as long as he don't move here...!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 02:59 PM

Is it over yet? When the electoral colleges declare (tomorrow?) is it all over or can the turnip still throw a spanner in the works?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 12:15 PM

Well there's always the possibility Trump might try to throw his supporters behind the call of the Republiican Chairman in Texas for Trump Loyalist States to babpnd together and secede from the USA. But I'm inclined to doubt that would work out too well for them. Or him.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 12:34 PM

You can watch the Electoral College real time vote via the Washington Post. At the moment it is 82 Biden, 56 Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 12:42 PM

I gather a number of the electors have had death threats from Trump supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 04:23 PM

Biden 240, with California...55 votes... still to go...plus Oregon and Hawaii

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Helen
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 05:38 PM

It's done!

By Peter Marsh
Key Event
Joe Biden has secured more than 270 electoral colleges, formalising his 2020 US election victory

Of course, the state the pushed him over the top was California. With its 55 electors casting their ballots, Biden now has 302 electoral college votes, passing the 270 required to win.

Only Hawaii's electors are yet to vote, which will bring Biden up to the forecast 306 total electoral college votes.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 09:35 AM

Rudy the red nose lawyer

Rudy the deadbeat lawyer loved Donald like his family dooming his wife and children to insolubil-ity

Rudy enjoys the good life takes a royal princess cruise makes it with teen age bimbos Buys the most expensive booze

Then one foggy xmas eve Rudy got a call If he'd shoot joe b tonight Trump would win it all all right -

soon the law was on his trail Rudy changed his name had some hair dye and botox Now he is a guest on Fox

the only thing about poor Rudy he looks exactly like an older Pense when he reports on Donald he doesn't make a bit of sense