BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)

Subject: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:19 AM

Well someone had to do it...

Good place to kick off: I note that the EU, quite rightly in m'humble, is not thinking of doing a deal with us at all unless we refuse US chlorinated chicken. So I guess we'd better stick with the EU after all... Nothing like taking back control, is there?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:43 AM

Fortunately, they said more than that.

For quite a while now I have had the suspicion that the Government was prepared to ban chlorinated chicken and would do so with much flag waving, while letting other food below the EU standards in. There was a good hint of this a day or two ago where the government spokesman was saying that the chlorine wash is old technology and most US poultry farms are switching to a lactic acid wash. If that is true, banning chlorine washes would be largely symbolic, but if everyone's attention has been focussed on it, they could miss that it is actually not especially significant.

But the EU proposal would apply just as much to lactic acid washes.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:01 AM

That is why US chicken typically have 2% prevalence of salmonella and the EU chickens 15%.

It is simply protectionism.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:14 AM

Is that a typo in the subject line? Should it be (for remaniacs only)?

As I have said before, I did vote remain myself. Further to the previous thread, I have also spoken to people in the pub who voted leave. It is quite possible to do you know.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:25 AM

Thanks Steve :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:59 AM

I've cooked many a hundred chickens and we've never contracted food poisoning. It's about knowing how to handle ANY raw meat, though admittedly a high rate of Salmonella or other nasties is unacceptable and is a reflection of bad practice in the places where chickens are reared. The US assumes (and appears to accept) a high rate of Salmonella contamination, etc., and chlorine-washes appropriately, as it sees it. To me, that's even less acceptable. It's not so much the chlorine; it's the acceptance of low standards behind it that requires the chlorine wash in the first place. If it was the chlorine itself to worry about, no-one would drink tap water or go to the baths.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 07:13 AM

The US assumes (and appears to accept) a high rate of Salmonella contamination, etc., and chlorine-washes appropriately, as it sees it.

But apparently not as high as the EU is prepared to accept.

From the Grocer quoting the Adam Smith Institue
immersing poultry meat in chlorine dioxide solution of the strength used in the United States reduces prevalence of salmonella from 14% in controls to 2%. EU chicken samples typically have 15-20% salmonella.”
cf Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:01 AM

If 2% is high what is 15-20%?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 08:54 AM

I'd be even more concerned about the relative levels of growth hormones
and other feed/injection chemicals in meat...???

We can't afford top quality free range, and have no intention of going vegetarian,
so our income bracket will suffer most from dodgy imported supermarket meats...

Just watched an interesting documentary on BBC Wales
which revealed some of what goes into abnormally fast grown supersized USA cattle...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 09:01 AM

oops.. my mistake - not BBC Wales, but All 4.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/meat-the-family

"Four families care for farm animals at home, then choose if they will be saved or be eaten"

The visit to the USA ranch is in the final episode 3
of this medium light entertainment moral dilemna reality series...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 09:17 AM

Like I keep saying. Science has an answer, and we won't like it. See above.

Climate Change, Brexshit, 10 years of austerity** and now the inevitable wobbly (there always is one) that no-one predicted - "COVID-19" - are bound to put pressure on the food chain, and unless we are prepared to pay 20% of an average annual income on food (as we did 40 years ago) then the 9% we save comes at a largely hidden cost that is not counted in pennies. see above. And more people grew their own then! And what little bit of waste was all composted then.

AND FFS, we can't even bury our heads in sand, unless it is quicksand under the nouveau-lakes, this winter!

**the Metro reported a badly worded stat about 10 years of austerity causing the advance in life expectancy to stall.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:33 AM

The Brexit Party founder/former leader showing her true colours by joining up with Yaxley-Lennon to form a new group (party?).

Why am I not surprised?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:45 AM

There aren't growth hormones in the chicken produced here that is sold to the public. I don't know about birds identified for pet food, etc.

And what is it with you guys and "chlorinated chicken?" The water has some chlorine in it and it evaporates after some time in the air. If chicken is rinsed with US water chances are there is some chlorine in it, but this isn't poultry dipped in pool chemicals. https://www.chickencheck.in/faq/chlorine-washed-chicken/.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:49 AM

Thread creep / hijack..???

yeah.. why not..

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/oct/16/meat-the-family-new-reality-tv-show-challenges-carnivores-to-eat-their-pets


"It is one of the most shocking ultimatums delivered on television. Go vegetarian or we kill your pet.

But a new British reality TV show called Meat the Family goes even further.
Not only will a family of unrepentant carnivores have to let an animal they have adopted and grown to love go for slaughter
if they refuse to stop eating meat – they will be asked to cook and eat it.

With experts saying that we have to eat less meat to stave off climate change,
the Channel 4 show challenges four heavy meat-eating families to take home and look after
the “animal which ends up most often on their plates”."

Our position as 'ethical carnivores' [catchy.. innit..] didn't change
after watching all 3 episodes...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:49 AM

**the Metro reported a badly worded stat about 10 years of austerity causing the advance in life expectancy to stall.
Carefully omitting to add that the same is true in other european countries.
Of course rising lebvels of obesity, junk food consumption and increasing incidence of diabetes have zero influence on life expectancy.
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/trends-in-life-expectancy-in-eu-and-other-oecd-countries_223159ab-e
and some cod science data for mr shaw

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Mortality_and_life_expectancy_statistics#Life_expectancy_at_age_65_

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM

As I said, Maggie, it ain't the actual chlorine that matters. It's the fact that chlorine seems be be used to excuse farmers from applying good hygiene standards. And we know that good hygiene standards are part and parcel of good welfare standards. The perception here is that the US is less concerned about these things than we are and that the chlorine just provides a panacea.

Good piece in today's Guardian about farming practices and rewilding. It's the Long Read.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:03 AM

The second link isn't science at all. It's a mass of collected data.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:05 AM

”And what is it with you guys and chlorinated chicken?”

Here ya go Maggie., all explained in a nutshell. FYI, the RSPCA is The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:06 AM

Sorry Steve, cross posted.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:18 AM

BWM - further down from your brexit party/tommmy link
is this short article about a tory prick...

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/james-grundy-flashing-incident-1-6530435

Now if that had been a Labour MP,
guido would be all over it with lashings of hysterical hyperbole
decrying the threat to civil decency from lefty perverts...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:36 AM

Isn't that a standard part of the selection process for Tory MPs? "Duos habet et bene pendentes".

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 12:02 PM

junk food consumption and increasing incidence of diabetes have zero influence on life expectancy - you mist (sic) the question mark, slow down, you will make more sense.

And the easy (aka cheap) method of getting maximum calories when you don't have much money (aka austerity) is to go for the densest fodder. "Greasy animal protein". Hardly saying a different story. Cause and effect are easy to spot.

It is a correlation that can be explained, unscientifically, at least:
In a recession the sale of sweets and coffee go up out of proportion to times aplenty. Cheap fast food would be included in this context.
People go out shopping and find the product they sought is a bit too expensive (aka "can't find anything") so they say "let's go for a coffee". Sweets to shut the child up etc.
The rise and rise of coffee shops everywhere would seem to testify to the phenomenon.

I well remember an American political pundit warning on Reaganomics (as in Thatcherism) in 1985 - he predicted pot holes on our roads.
Given the life of tarmac - that particular chlorinated chicken is certainly coming home to roost. On our bloody motorways!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 12:42 PM

If they roosted in the potholes round here, one in each hole, they'd be packed tighter than in a bloody battery house.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 01:02 PM

Is our tory govt weighing up cost effectiveness of numbers of old folk with dementia needing social care,
versus numbers of old folk projected to snuff it during a 'controlled' pandemic outbreak...


The only significant consideration in such an equation
for our govt might be how many of the potential elderly victims
are tories...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 01:48 PM

This is a pothole

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:29 PM

It certainly is !!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:33 PM

or a bomb crater...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:39 PM

You guys should have the same strategy for disease control as the US which is to fire everyone in the chain of command in pandemic response and replace with a FOX news reporter. This way control is under the control of one single person, Donald Trump.

This is like a cliff hanger reality show. I'm on the edge of my chair. This will really help ratings.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 04:58 PM

Yes - Bolton fired the folks who took care of this global pandemic stuff and shut down the office. Is there a comparable stupid act in the UK political realm right now? These guys seem to be one-upping each other. "Hold my beer." The new trade pact between the US and UK.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 08:42 AM

A proper Yorkshire pot hole

Hull Pot

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 09:07 AM

Is there a comparable stupid act in the UK political realm right now?

Priti Patel being so boneheaded that MI5 won't trust her with security information any more?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:47 PM

From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 09:07 AM


Priti Patel being so boneheaded that MI5 won't trust her with security information any more?

Even the BBC seem to be saying that this is fake: BBC

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:58 PM

It is more a case the security services do not like their master. Must be time for Cummins to clean house. Tally Ho!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 01:16 PM

Is that the cummings who spent much of his formative years in Russia... hmmmm..?????

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 05:03 PM

Formative years? you jest!
Cummings spent his formative years in Durham,a place noted for a largely incomprehensible accent rather that a hot bed of Russian intrigue.
He actually worked in Russia from1994-7.

If you want reds in the bed you would be better served studying the antics of certain of corbyn's clowns. Did the master himself not go on a bicycle made for two with dazy abbot for an assignation in E. Germany with the Stasi?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 06:17 PM

That was way back in ye olde cold war days.. how quaint..

Now in the modern 21st century we are talking about Putin stooges under the bed...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:04 AM

The EU has a stance on life expectancy

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/trends-in-life-expectancy-in-eu-and-other-oecd-countries_223159ab-e
A better piece of research than Marmot, who should be lumped together with montbiot and marmite.
It would be interesting to see if the decrease on a country by country basis correlates with the size of the sub saharan immigrant communities, where life expectancy at birth is at least 10 years less.
To counter this holocaust survivors had an increased life expectancy.
Could it be argued that survivors and migrants are better survivalists due to genetics and outlook, or simply happenstance?
It is obviously a far more complex subject and requires a far more intricate analysis than marmot's cheap political shots.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: BobL
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 03:00 AM

Try here - looks like the link maker has a length limit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 03:52 AM

Even the BBC seem to be saying that this is fake:

Hmmmmm

If you were in charge of the country's secrets would you tell a minister who fires everyone who disagrees with you? Come on, MI5 are not about opinions, and prejudice - their job is to get the facts. Ya canna let the incredulous loose with facts. Geeze. Ya spoon-feed them. With facts ya want let loose. Agents' lives are at stake.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 04:01 AM

@Bobl. Thanks for creating a working link.
I generally try to provide working links to substantiate what I have stated. (Unlike some of the more opinionated that post)
Out of curiosity I did a little digging into life expectancies and some studies indicate that immigrants have a greater life expectation than the indigenous population. Other studies contradict this. Obviously a fertile field for definitive research.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 04:39 AM

When you consider that Smirki Patel was forced to step down after fixing clandestine and unauthorised meetings with Israeli ministers when she was purportedly on holiday, it would hardly be surprising if intelligence agencies felt that they couldn't trust her.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 11:08 AM

So this is what taking control back from unelected bureaucrats looks like.

Hmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 11:45 AM

Apparently Cumming's is going to have an urgent operation during February, having postponed this twice so far.

I haven't heard how it went. Anyone got any information?

Cummings to quit or cut down hours (or so it is reported)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 11:47 AM

They’re going to insert a brain....

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 01:47 PM

All about a civil servant that thinks he knows better than his boss.   A gem from Guido.

The big blouse has flounced off - He thinks he is in "are you being served" instead of "yes Minister"

Hilarioua. You either shape up or ship out just like evryone in the private sector.
I wonderif his washing his dirty laundry in public falls foul of the official secrets act? Can we have him tried pour encourager les autres



https://order-order.com/2020/02/29/philip-rutnam-quits/

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 01:58 PM

errr... the civil service isn't in the private sector..

..yet...

Despite tory ideological intentions to drag it down
to the dog eat dog nasty level of the private sector...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:32 AM

I think a heart would be more apt BWM.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:58 AM

errr... the civil service isn't in the private sector..
errr........ you cannot read. "Everyone" would need to be qualified by "else" for your interpretation.

As usual the leftwaffe hit an imaginary target!

Hilarious to see the gruniard thinks the minister should resign. The laddie has a cv replete with failure upon failure.
Hopefully Monday morning we will see him emptying his desk, escorted by security, and thrown out the door. All filmed by the BBC overhead chopper for our delectation and delight. A luvverly bit of swampdraining.

If the action upsets guardianistas you know somone is doing something right. Further proof is offered by the whining lefties posting here.

Pretty Patel should hit him with a waycism charge, besides incompetance.

I wonder how much mileage the constructive dismissal case wil have in the courts? about 1000th of an inch by my reckoning.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 04:08 AM

So this is what taking control back from unelected bureaucrats looks like. Firefox blocked a fingerprinter on that page


Pretty Patel ha ha ha ha, a Fruedian slip if ever I saw one, got the hots have you? She ain't so Priti IMNSHO.

Well I have to admit you finally said something that made me laugh, and I love a joke that just keeps on giving............. mileage you say hah ha ha ..........

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 04:35 AM

Iains - nitpicking over the tiny word "else" = epic squirm...

It's inclusion or absence makes no difference..

WE know what you really meant...!!!

Otherwise, why would you bring your idealised notion of private sector ruthlessness
into that sentence...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 05:43 AM

SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN DELETED ELSEWHERE
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy.....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:07 AM

Now it transpires that Mary Beard was blocked by Downing Street from becoming a trustee of the British Museum because of her remainer stance. The Museum got her in anyway. Even for this bloody shower, that's a complete outrage.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:15 AM

Nice to know that teh Downing Street Gruppenführer is going to have his hands full changing nappies in the foreseeable future - (not while there's a woman available to do it, of course - they are destined for HIGHER THINGS in his Brave New World
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:20 AM

I see all sense has now evaporated in the BS section.
10
9
8
..................?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:37 AM

Back in the world of Politics, how is the Labour leadership election going?

Have the turkeys voted for Christmas and is it possible for the turkeys to vote against Christmas?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:41 AM

Voting began on 24/2/20, and closes on 2/4/20. The result will be announced on 4/4/20.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:44 AM

The 2019 United Kingdom general election was held on Thursday 12 December. On that day the leftwaffe lost its wings and now can only resort to making silly aeroplane noises. Their voices and opinions no longer mean anything and are safely ignored by the victorious brexiteers. With a corbyn in skirts as the likely leader of magic grandad's continuity circus there is no fear of them having any kind of influence for the forseable future. I look forward to Dominic's full frontal assault on the civil service to make them compliant to the Minister's will.
    If anyone manages to upset the guardian we know they are doing the right thing for the country at large.   Rule Brittania and Agincourt fingers to the French! The germans can toss all their mercedes into the lake of homeless british destined champagne if we leave on WTO terms. Bring it on I say.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:59 AM

"Brittania" [sic]

Wouldn't you have thought that such a loyal patriot would at least know how to spell the name of his beloved country...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 07:42 AM

"Brittania" - the Priti version? Ha ha ha........

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 08:24 AM

Maybe he's off to Agincourt courtesy of Brittany Ferries...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 08:29 AM

"the Priti version? "
It's turned out that she has a track record of bullying abuse which goes back a long way
Be intereesting to see if she has to share a cell with Harvey Weinstock - that conjures up not a pretty picture of S and M


Fascinating to watch what's happening back home from a relatively stable Ireland (especially as SF really does seem set to romp home with a further 10 point increase since the election)
I used to read The (English) Times for what's happening but that's dropped the 'I'm a newspaper' mask and has degenerated to 'Turkeys voting for Christmas' as has the usual team of Johnno's Bover Boys on Mudcat
THere was a brilliant analysis of what's happened to Western politics from an Irish economist this morning's radio
A feeble wannabe team led by Johnson hastily following in the footsteps of Trump's scapegoat politics in order to use 'Make Britain Great Again' populism rather than realpolitic to keep on top with Dom the Deadbeat and his team of thugs waiting in the wings to take care of anybody who steps our of line
Haven't enjoyed myself so much since the 'Godfather' trilogy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 08:39 AM

a uk senior civil servant has resigned because of Patels bullying

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:40 AM

clumsy obvious change of direction to escape a sticky mess..

"The 2019 United Kingdom general election was held on Thursday 12 December. On that day the leftwaffe lost its wings and now can only resort to making silly aeroplane noises...
[blah blah etc etc..]
... can toss all their mercedes into the lake of homeless british destined champagne if we leave on WTO terms. Bring it on I say."

Iains - schoolboy 'cummings youth storm-troopers' on youtube,
are far better at that style of smug garbled
trying too hard to be clever propaganda.
than you are...
If one of them is writing your scripts,
you've been lumbered with a class dunce
and you need to replace him with a more mature and capable script writer..

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:59 AM

Is there any talk of India's pogrom against Muslims by the new Hindu nationalists with the permission by Modi?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 11:03 AM

The civil service conspired to topple a few other ministers.Like the lefty nemesis the mighty Maggie (Blessedbe her name), this lady is not for turning.
Governments govern, civil servants do as they are told. This seems to be a novel experience for those in the public sector. I must introduce them to Dominic Cumming. He will sort them out.
I must say the lefty screeching on this subject is music to my ears.
The only power they have is within their lungs and a little white noise soon deadens that.
Rudderless, leaderless, clueless and inept - the guiding principles of modern labour.(Guaranteed to keep them out of power for ever.) The only fools that think twitter is more imortant than the ballot box and winning the argument more valuable than winning the election.
You would need a heart of stone not to laugh at the self inflicted predicament they are in. They continue to chatter away on here convinced people are listening to them. I could almost feel sorry for them but then I think of the 3.5 years constant betrayal of democracy and brexit and no........ I do not have even the slightest tinge of sympathy for them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 11:11 AM

Iains - A slight improvement, but still reads like a cut and paste copy...

So basically the tory far right are ruthlessly out to destroy
any civil servants who impede cumming's 'coup'
on behalf of USA and Russian billionaires...

Some British patriots cummings and boris are turning out to be...??????

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 11:17 AM

a uk senior civil servant has resigned because of Patels bullying
Perhaps that should read "because of reports of Patel's bullying" as it appears that Rutnam has not witnessed it himself but is relying on the claims of others, according to his resignation speech recorded by The Independent
“I have received allegations that her conduct has included shouting and swearing, belittling people, making unreasonable and repeated demands – behaviour that created fear and that needed some bravery to call out.
“I know that resigning in this way will have serious implications for me personally – the Cabinet Office offered me a financial settlement that would have avoided this outcome.
“I am aware that there will continue to be briefing against me now I have made this decision, but I am hopeful that at least it may not now be directed towards my colleagues or the department.
“This has been a very difficult decision but I hope that my stand may help in maintaining the quality of government in our country – which includes hundreds of thousands of civil servants, loyally dedicated to delivering this government’s agenda.
“I will make no further comment at this stage.”

If, as he says, "The Cabinet Office offered me a financial settlement" then it looks as if he was on his way out anyway, and has jumped before he could be pushed. As such I doubt he will be successful in claiming 'constructive dismissal'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 11:30 AM

The devil is in the detail - as always.


Pfr if I cut and paste I have no need to try to hide it. It is rather like links. It enables sources to be checked.
Unlike those that never link, despite claiming to be "Oh so clever"

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 11:46 AM

"I am aware that there will continue to be briefing against me now I have made this decision"

..an understatement of what spiteful revenge he can expect,
as rabid right tories swiftly close ranks to ruthlessly plan his demise...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:04 PM

There's no need for anyone to brief against him. He's gone, and of his own accord.
Of course someone (who is not known) has been briefing against Pritti Patel prior to this, claiming that she wasn't receiving briefings from the security services.
It seems that what is sauce for the goose is unacceptable when applied to the gander.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:20 PM

I recollest the poison dwarf was accused of bullying, and the one eyed loon had a penchant for hurling phones at all and sundry. I do not recall aqueals of outrage off the lefties then! Why was that I wonder?
It makes their protests here even more pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:22 PM

Surely honourable patriotic civil servants have a duty to question & resist
any government's intentions to impose the beginnings of a totalitarian regime
on our nation...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:28 PM

Nigwl,

If Rutnam was 'on his way out' as you suggest why on earth would anyone offer him the chance to 'resign and go quietly with financial compensation'.

I believe this will open up a large can of worms which will only be detrimental to the government.

Time, as always, will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:29 PM

pfr: The duties of a Civil Servant are set out in The Civil Service Code
If you need further clarification, please ask.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:31 PM

Nigwl !!!????!!!

I apologise Nigwl that should have read Nigel :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:34 PM

Sir Calamity the bumbling buffoon.
175k per year and gold plated pension - for what?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8061047/How-Sir-Philip-Rutnams-byword-bungled-advice.html
One has to ask why was he allowed to remain in post so long?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:39 PM

Iains - what...???

Please can you translate your most recent posts...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:54 PM

Raggy:
I apologise Nigwl that should have read Nigel :-)
No problems, at least 'w' is a vowel. Perhaps you've been reading too much Welsh on St David's day ;)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:15 PM

My mrs is doing St Dave's day
by catching up on on Boxset "Stella" comedy drama series...

nostalgia for the previous decade...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:19 PM

Pfr I find it hard to believe you are encouraging me to even greater efforts. I am sure any perceived ambiguity is solely in your mind.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:20 PM

Firefox blocked a fingerprinter on that page

It's a link to the Telegraph, Mr R. I had to wipe my feet when I left but at least the right wingers couldn't complain about left wing bias :-)

Stanron. WTF are you on about? Surely the biggest Turkey in the shop is already in number 10!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:41 PM

Iains - no.. it's that my

"Right wing buzzwords and insults - To English." phrase book

is last year's version and getting a bit out of date,
until he new edition is published for 2020...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:52 PM

You will have to forward me a copy. I am not familiar with it. I am sure I could put it to excellent use, to wind up deserving candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:07 PM

Dave the Gnome wrote: Stanron. WTF are you on about? Surely the biggest Turkey in the shop is already in number 10!

With regard to the turkey in my post, Christmas comes on the 4th of March with the announcement of the new Labour leader.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 03:18 PM

Stanron surely you mean the month of April not March. The 1st would have mean a more sensible date in my opinion,

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 04:18 PM

But the fool would not just be for April.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Martin
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 04:01 AM

Seem to remember you were once an avid Grauniad reader not so many moons ago, Jim - what went wrong there then?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 07:42 AM

Still doesn't make any sense, Stanron. I think you have your cliches in a twist.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 07:59 AM

Great news about Boris Johnson’s forthcoming nuptials and the birth of his umpteenth brat (does anyone understand how the fat, ugly bastard persuades any self-respecting woman to let him dip his wick in her?).

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 08:00 AM

Relax Nigs - I know it’s a joke site.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 08:19 AM

For reference, this is what the UK includes in its 184 page document of trade objectives:

Public Negotiating Objectives for a Free Trade Agreement with the United States
Overall objectives
• Agree an ambitious and comprehensive Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the United States (US) that strengthens the economic relationship with our largest bilateral trading partner, promoting increased trade in goods and services and greater cross-border investment.
• Increase UK GDP by opening up opportunities for UK businesses, including Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (SMEs) and investors, and facilitating greater choice and lower prices for UK producers and consumers.
• The Government has been clear that when we are negotiating trade agreements, the National Health Service (NHS) will not be on the table. The price the NHS pays for drugs will not be on the table. The services the NHS provides will not be on the table. The NHS is not, and never will be, for sale to the private sector, whether overseas or domestic.
• Throughout the agreement, ensure high standards and protections for UK consumers and workers and build on our existing international obligations. This will include not compromising on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards.

=====

Obviously, there is much more. But in particular, notice that it says it will not compromise of the prices the NHS pays for drugs, nor on animal welfare and food standards.

I hope everyone posting on this site will hold them to that, and not seek excuses if they do not.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 09:50 AM

What boris and his tory govt says and promises from one minute to the next,
is about as believable and reliable
as my 87 year old mum with dementia...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 09:52 AM

The UK trade objectives

Page 57 is especially interesting in showing how little percentage growth in GSP the UK government expects this will achieve.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 09:55 AM

You and I may think that, pfr, but this it THE deal that a lot of Brexiteers have been concentrating on. So I would quite like them to say "Yes, these are the objectives we want, and we will do what we can to ensure the government keeps to them."

I don't really expect them to, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:15 AM

Just to keep you happy:
"Yes, these are the objectives we want, and we will do what we can to ensure the government keeps to them."
However, the government are currently in negotiation. I realise that the ardent remainers have never quite understood this. While we have objectives, the other party to the negotiation (Be it USA or EU) will also have objectives, and it is likely that the two will not match.
That is the point of 'negotiation'. At least when the negotiation is with the EU they now know that, if all else fails (which I hope it doesn't) the country can continue to trade on WTO terms.
The previous incumbent of No 10 did not appear to understand this, and I very much doubt that any leader the Labour Party could put forward would do any better.
So we have Boris. Whatever you may think of him, I believe that he has the best interests of this country in view when he negotiates on our behalf. His marital or parental status has nothing to do with his ability to do the job.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:27 AM

Nice cartoon in The Times This morning
Johnson's pregnant girlfriend says "I wonder what it'll be"
and Juicy Johnno replies "A welcome diversion, I hope"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:30 AM

yes, Nigel, I did put "what we can" into that deliberately. I realise I, and probably not you, do not have the ear of the government so what we can do is very limited.

But we can certainly avoid making excuses for them if they give any of this away lightly.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:34 AM

It's boris's unreliable personal integrity & truthfulness,
and his 'sub' relationship with his 'dom',
that concerns us...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:38 AM

”His marital or parental status has nothing to do with his ability to do the job.”

Perhaps not. But it does give us a very good insight into his lack of morals, his deceitfulness, and his unreliability.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 12:31 PM

and magic grandad is supposed to be the leader all should aspire to emulate.
       God grant me strength - the lunatic lefty loons have totally lost the plot.
The saving grace is that they are totally un-elctable and have zero influence on the proceedings of the government of Basher Boris the beast of Bullingdon.

Who better to get up the noses of the left and to get on with delivering Brexit as ordered by the majority in the referendum and last couple of elections.
Democracy rules and the left cannot accept it. How awfully sad.
Perhaps during their sojourn in the wilderness they may finally work out that the twittersphere does not reflect reality. At a minimum they have 20 years to learn the error of their ways.. with a corbynated clone/clown as leader elective the omens are not good.
Further cause for mighty celebration I would say! Labour: the gift that keeps giving to the Triumphant Tories

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 12:46 PM

1oo

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 01:03 PM

Iains - I am well aware that your most recent post is near word for word,
and matching same hysterical bonkers deliver
as too many other right wing nutters on social media...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 01:12 PM

well that one accidentally posted whilst I was drafting it...

I might as well leave it at that..
apart from "delivery".. it mostly get's the message across..


Iain's random outburst is soooo disconnected in content and tone from what we are actually debating right now..

Similar to unexpected shouted outbursts from weirdo strangers on streets and buses, etc...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 02:34 PM

Steve got his wish when he chose the title for his thread it seems
Johnson the Joke - Creepy Cummins, and now Punch-Drunk Priti ..... you couldn't make them up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 02:49 PM

And yet (with the exception of Cummings) they got voted into power.
The alternative must have been too terrible to consider.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 02:53 PM

Surely honourable patriotic civil servants have a duty to question & resist
any government's intentions to impose the beginnings of a totalitarian regime
on our nation...??? That's out job, in five year's time.

They are expected to do as they are asked, after pointing-out the legality/practicality/consequences thereof. But it behooves the ministers to be considerate. Priti Patel was described by her colleagues, in her defence fer gawd's sake, as robust. Code words for something much more than assertive. She is an ex-lobbyist for tobacco & alcohol. Er... pushy sans morals also fits.

Philip Rutnam has been critical in defence of his staff. Part of his job, I submit.

Roll on the employment tribunal, and his memoirs.

Don't the bastards in power realise they are farting about with something that could be done at any time, the fucking climate is fucking us NOW. History will judge, and they are judging us now - those school kids!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 03:18 PM

All the climate brats managed to do was turn a pleasant lawn into a wasteland of mud and garbage. All encouraged by a manipulated traunt with issues.

Boris is having a cabinet enquiry into Patel. This is code for getting all his manderin ducks in a row. I hear he has a very efficient punt gun. I like Chinese cuisine but believe I will pass by on these particular manderin ducks.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 03:22 PM

News reports right now, of 4 years ago when Priti Patel was in the Employment Dept.
A dismissal, employment court case, figure of £25,000 in judgement, and an attempted suicide and Priti Patel slated as the direct cause.

Ms Patel is not aware of any judgement. Well - why would she?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 03:27 PM

Ms Patel.. girl thug power...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 03:31 PM

"Surely honourable patriotic civil servants have a duty to question & resist
any government's intentions to impose the beginnings of a totalitarian regime
on our nation...??? That's out job, in five year's time."

.. might be too late by then to halt the coup...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 04:27 PM

News reports right now, of 4 years ago when Priti Patel was in the Employment Dept.
A dismissal, employment court case, figure of £25,000 in judgement, and an attempted suicide and Priti Patel slated as the direct cause.

Unless you can give a link to this it appears the BBC think otherwise:

A settlement was reached in 2017 for £25,000 after the member of staff threatened to bring a legal claim of bullying, harassment and discrimination on the grounds of race and disability against the department, including Ms Patel who is directly named.

A settlement following a threat of legal action is not "a judgement in an employment court case"

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 04:39 PM

Nigel, I would normally do this, but you seem to have missed the comma between 'employment court case' and 'figure of judgement'

You are not the only one who can nickpick. Most of us understand the basic without resorting to such minor considerations. We are not a court of law :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 04:50 PM

No, I didn't miss the meaning of a comma. There is none in the phrase: figure of £25,000 in judgement. In order for the £25,000 to be 'in judgement' it cannot be just a figure decided 'out of court'.

"We are not a court of law". No, but that doesn't mean we can bend the news to suit our own requirements.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 05:41 PM

a single comma aint gonna distract from credible reports that Patel
is a very nasty person,
unfit for prominent public office...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 06:48 PM

I realise that the ardent remainers have never quite understood this.

That's just silly, Nigel. If you want to try to insult people you need to try something with an element of truth in it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 07:12 PM

What's silly is trying to have a sensible conversation with tories,
when they automatically close ranks to aggressively protect one of their own
from credible accusations of wrong doing...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 02:42 AM

The converse argument is that we have a manderin, with a track record of non delivery, that has a problem taking orders from a female of Indian extraction. More than a whiff of misogyny and racism in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:21 AM

Not "converse"
There's never been any doubt that Johnson is a racist and a misogynist with a track record of non-delivery - that's what the Tories voted for, that's what they wanted, that's what they got - which confirms the Tory Party to be racist and misogynist by instinct and don't care very much whether their government delivers on its promises
We now know that their Home Secretary is a serial bully with the threat of a law suit hanging over her - an added card to the Tory pack
In addition, is is prepared to resort to a non-elected thug capable of frog-marching those he doesn't approve of out of Downing Street
Just the party to take Britain out of Europe into Trump's Brave New World led by a "racist and a misogynist"

Flag-waggers of the world unite
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:23 AM

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/priti-patel-sir-philip-rutnam-home-office-secretary-joint-statement-rift-allegations-1888732
The former Environment Secretary, Theresa Villiers, says she "sick of spiteful briefings against women in high public office" saying it happens "again and again".

Hmmmmmm!

"When the rumours began regarding Priti Patel's management style, didn't Rutnam co-sign a document which refuted the allegations? Are we to believe that the diminutive Home Secretary wrestled Rutnam to the ground and forced him to sign?"

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:49 AM

They've already tried to silence these claims with an offer of money
AS THEY HAVE IN THE PAST
"Bred in the bone" springs to mind (along with racism and misogyny)

Great to see the hard right joining forces with the Daily Mirror to attack their own leader
STRANGE BEDFELLOWS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:58 AM

"diminutive Home Secretary"
Wonderful example of Tory sexism by the way - she's a woman so she must be incapable of defending herself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 04:42 AM


All the climate brats managed to do was turn a pleasant lawn into a wasteland of mud and garbage. All encouraged by a manipulated traunt** with issues.

Well we don't have to worry about climate deniers burning in hell. Do we?
They will burn in this life, if they live that long. Have a Priti day, while you can.

** nitpick assumed

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 05:08 AM

With a mighty majority we have no need to listed to the sqwawking left, much less take any notice of them.
How is the wilderness these days? Any burning bushes, manna or salvation on the horizon????
No! I thought not. Howsanna !!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 05:12 AM

All the climate brats managed to do was turn a pleasant lawn into a wasteland of mud and garbage. All encouraged by a manipulated traunt** with issues.

Well we don't have to worry about climate deniers burning in hell. Do we?
They will burn in this life, if they live that long. Have a Priti day, while you can.

How dare you! How dare you believe you can do what you like and leave it to others to clear up you ruining the environment. You have stolen our lawn!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 05:29 AM

"How dare you! How dare you believe you can do what you like and leave it to others to clear up you ruining the environment"
I take iy you are not addressing this to the polluters who fill our skies with the chemical fumes that have now been proven to be threatening the furure of the Planet - why not !
This young woman, alongside the Dasvid Attenboroughs who share her views, has woken the world up to the responsibility it has for future generations
The Trump trumpeting planet wrecking dinosaurs ar destroying the future of this planet - not a handful of demonstrators
This right-wing rant has been used against every progressive attempt to put things right - The Bomb - Vietnam - South African Apartheid
About time tor rightist orchestra bought some new instruments
HOW DARE YOU CONTINUE TO DESTOY THIS PLANET

THE FILM CLIP IS WELL WORTH A WATCH
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 05:45 AM

Iains you and your scriptwriters are talking bollox on two cheap points..

1] It is only you and other right wing apologists who have dared bring race and gender into the Patel scandal.
Because your sort are constantly of that ingrained mindset.
This time you think you are clever trying to falsely blame your opponents
for your own pernicious prejudices.
WE know you only tolerate Patel because she is a useful token
of newly claimed tory inculusivity..

"Yes of course we tories are modern and no longer racist,
LOOK we have some Asians now..
and better still, this one is even a woman...!!!"..

2] funny how the right are now getting so upset and outraged about a city centre lawn
[which will grow back, or even be replaced by Greta supporters cash pledges..]
Suddenly one lawn is more important than all the rain forests you never care about being destroyed
for 'progress' and profit...

See, we do so easily see through your weasel protests...!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 06:00 AM

NO it's you talking out of your own jet exhaust.. you can hear echos of your own mind...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 06:08 AM

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

From Animal Farm by George Orwell.


No animals were harmed during the typing of this post.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 06:13 AM

"you can hear echos of your own mind..."
I'd forgotten what a bad debater he was and how it only took a few prods to start him blustering
Easy - easy !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 04:07 AM

"Hardly a smear. Yet again you clearly demonstrate you have zero knowledge of the allegations and attempt to denigrate and trivialise serious charges."

Antisemitsm has always been the domain of the right
When I came into this world, the right, financed by German Industrial capitalism, were herding the Jewish people, along with the left, Gypises, Trade Unionists, and those considered physically and mentally "unsuitable to be part of their new order" into death camps in their tens of millions, to be first used as slaves, and then exterminated - a 'right wing policy'
Now, at the other end of my life, the Jews are again being used, this time by those claiming to represent them, as human shields against criticism of a right-wing policy of ethnically cleansing the Arab People, supported by right-wing politicians throughout the world who are happy to use the same Jewish people to fulfill their own political ambitions
This has been done by making it impossible to distinguish between real antisemitism and criticism of Israel - the result being a sharp rise in real antisemitism
Again, The Jewish People have become victims of extreme right-wingism - at both ends of my life

If antisemitism is a serious problem, then so is Islamophobia
Those accused of the former immediately took steps to deal with it
It is nearly five years since Muslim leaders complained of a serious problem of Islamophobia in the Tory Party
The response of that Party has been to appoint a nown racist as Prime Minister who is now happily climbing into the pocket of a wold leader who is racist, misogynist, antisemitic, and who is strongly supported by the longest running Antitisemitic organisation on this planet - The Ku Klux Klan

The Right has had to re-define the term and call it "NEW ANTISEMITISM"
No attacks on the Jewish People, no Antismistism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 05:52 AM

"How many threads have you trashed by dragging in antisemitism Jimmie?"
And how many times have you used antisemitism to attack the Labour Party -- then scurried behind something like this to avoid having to substantiate your accusations ?
You bombarded this forum with such accusations back in election time now you have a racist PM, persecution of ethnic groups is no longer important

From: Iains - PM
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:06 PM
"   whether unlawful acts have been committed by the Party or its employees or agents
    the steps taken by the Party to implement the recommendations made in the reports on antisemitism by Baroness Royall, the Home Affairs Select Committee and in the Chakrabarti Report"

I always said when right wing parties start 'worrying' about ethnic group;s you need to look under the carpet and wonder what's underneath
The same goes for people who call Travellers (Idle layabouts, thieves and even Slave Owners" and refer to the Irish as "bog-trotters" - hardly consistent, but certainly in character
You really aren't very good at this - are you ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 05:54 AM

Iains - you don't get to invade and occupy the moral high ground
in this thread...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:02 AM

A timely reminder
Letters Wed 11 Dec 2019 18.20 GMT
Jim Carroll
Boris Johnson
Boris Johnson’s record of bigotry, antisemitism and far-right politics must not be forgotten
A group of Jewish academics and campaigners voice their concerns about the prejudices of the Conservative leader, while residents of Jeremy Corbyn’s constituency express their full confidence in their representative
Letters

Wed 11 Dec 2019 1
Boris Johnson has invoked some of the oldest and most pernicious antisemitic stereotypes in a book he wrote when he was a Conservative shadow minister. He describes “Jewish oligarchs” who run the media, and fiddle the figures to fix elections in their favour.
He portrays a Jewish character, Sammy Katz, with a “proud nose and curly hair”, and paints him as a malevolent, stingy, snake-like Jewish businessman who exploits immigrant workers for profit. There is nothing subtle about this. We know what antisemitism looks like.
Johnson has form when it comes to anti-Jewish hatred. As editor of the Spectator he chose to publish articles in which the notorious racist Taki Theodoracopulos boasted of being “an antisemite”, argued black people “have lower IQs than whites” and praised Enoch Powell as a “great man”. Johnson defended Theodoracopulos, calling him a “distinguished columnist”. Even now Johnson continues to cosy up to Donald Trump, despite his rhetoric about Jewish disloyalty and support for neo-Nazis.
Johnson’s contempt for minorities, women, LGBT+ and working-class people is well known, so it’s not surprising this extends to Jews. We share the pain that many feel about antisemitism on the left and we will continue to hold the Labour party to account. But we wholly reject Boris Johnson’s cynical attempts to exploit our community’s legitimate concerns to distract from his own disgraceful bigotry.
A vote for the Conservatives is a vote for a far-right government that poses an existential threat to all minorities. As Jews, we understand that our fate is bound up with that of other minorities. We will only find safety through solidarity. We call on allies of the Jewish community to reject hate and vote the Tories out.

Andrew Feinstein former South African MP,
Dr Brian Klug Senior research fellow in philosophy, St Benet’s Hall, University of Oxford,
Em Hilton Campaigner, Prof David Graeber Anthropologist,
Dave Gould ASLEF, Francesca Klug Visiting professor, LSE Human Rights, Nadine Batchelor-Hunt Journalist, Cllr Jeremy Newmark Leader of Hertsmere borough council Labour group,
Jonty Leibowitz Political economist,
Jolyon Rubinstein Actor and writer,
Justin Schlosberg Lecturer in journalism and media,
Maxim Lundlack-Orr Deputy at Board of Deputies, fellow at JCoRE,
Mickey Keller Civil liberties solicitor,
Miriam Margolyes Actor,
Rob Abrams Campaigner,
Robin Samson Chair, Kehillah North London,
Cllr Sue Lukes Vice-chair, Kehillah North London,
Barnaby Raine PhD candidate,
Howard Rechavia Taylor PhD candidate,
Charlotte Nichols Parliamentary candidate, Warrington,
Eleanor Penny Journalist,
Daniel Machover, Ashleigh Loeb Actor,
Rhea Wolfson GMB Scotland

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:02 AM

A timely reminder
Letters Wed 11 Dec 2019 18.20 GMT
Jim Carroll
Boris Johnson
Boris Johnson’s record of bigotry, antisemitism and far-right politics must not be forgotten
A group of Jewish academics and campaigners voice their concerns about the prejudices of the Conservative leader, while residents of Jeremy Corbyn’s constituency express their full confidence in their representative
Letters

Wed 11 Dec 2019 1
Boris Johnson has invoked some of the oldest and most pernicious antisemitic stereotypes in a book he wrote when he was a Conservative shadow minister. He describes “Jewish oligarchs” who run the media, and fiddle the figures to fix elections in their favour.
He portrays a Jewish character, Sammy Katz, with a “proud nose and curly hair”, and paints him as a malevolent, stingy, snake-like Jewish businessman who exploits immigrant workers for profit. There is nothing subtle about this. We know what antisemitism looks like.
Johnson has form when it comes to anti-Jewish hatred. As editor of the Spectator he chose to publish articles in which the notorious racist Taki Theodoracopulos boasted of being “an antisemite”, argued black people “have lower IQs than whites” and praised Enoch Powell as a “great man”. Johnson defended Theodoracopulos, calling him a “distinguished columnist”. Even now Johnson continues to cosy up to Donald Trump, despite his rhetoric about Jewish disloyalty and support for neo-Nazis.
Johnson’s contempt for minorities, women, LGBT+ and working-class people is well known, so it’s not surprising this extends to Jews. We share the pain that many feel about antisemitism on the left and we will continue to hold the Labour party to account. But we wholly reject Boris Johnson’s cynical attempts to exploit our community’s legitimate concerns to distract from his own disgraceful bigotry.
A vote for the Conservatives is a vote for a far-right government that poses an existential threat to all minorities. As Jews, we understand that our fate is bound up with that of other minorities. We will only find safety through solidarity. We call on allies of the Jewish community to reject hate and vote the Tories out.

Andrew Feinstein former South African MP,
Dr Brian Klug Senior research fellow in philosophy, St Benet’s Hall, University of Oxford,
Em Hilton Campaigner, Prof David Graeber Anthropologist,
Dave Gould ASLEF, Francesca Klug Visiting professor, LSE Human Rights, Nadine Batchelor-Hunt Journalist, Cllr Jeremy Newmark Leader of Hertsmere borough council Labour group,
Jonty Leibowitz Political economist,
Jolyon Rubinstein Actor and writer,
Justin Schlosberg Lecturer in journalism and media,
Maxim Lundlack-Orr Deputy at Board of Deputies, fellow at JCoRE,
Mickey Keller Civil liberties solicitor,
Miriam Margolyes Actor,
Rob Abrams Campaigner,
Robin Samson Chair, Kehillah North London,
Cllr Sue Lukes Vice-chair, Kehillah North London,
Barnaby Raine PhD candidate,
Howard Rechavia Taylor PhD candidate,
Charlotte Nichols Parliamentary candidate, Warrington,
Eleanor Penny Journalist,
Daniel Machover, Ashleigh Loeb Actor,
Rhea Wolfson GMB Scotland

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:53 AM

The tactics and rhetoric Iains exploits may work effectively
on mainstream mass internet social media..

But we are sufficiently educated, informed and experienced
to see right through it all to the core of malevolence...

We know what he is doing and failing to achieve here..

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:55 AM

He's clearly very upset and deranged today. Ignore him.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:04 AM

This is what happens after having other hard right wingers banned from BS,
or lost from passing away..

All we have left is very limited poor quality debating apposition..


Maybe it's time we advertised, interviewed and recruited new younger right wing mudcatters
to challenge and stimulate us...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:05 AM

"opposition" bastard google corrective text.. bad google...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:16 AM

Bring back Terebus I say
At least his bullshit came with a degree of finesse
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:52 PM

Oh dear the lefties have no sensible counter argument so resort to the usual ad hominem attacks.
Never mind, here is something from Guido to make you ponder.


https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/convicted-greenwich-councillor-still-paid-allowances/
I wonder why the 82% Labour People’s Republic of Greenwich… has not seen fit to fire her?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:57 PM

You won't be making anyone round here ponder.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:13 PM

I always said when right wing parties start 'worrying' about ethnic group;s you need to look under the carpet and wonder what's underneath
The same goes for people who call Travellers (Idle layabouts, thieves and even Slave Owners" and refer to the Irish as "bog-trotters" - hardly consistent, but certainly in character
You really aren't very good at this - are you ?

thejournal.ie Oct 18, 2012 - UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE Irish Traveller community was 84.3 per cent .'
Sep 12, 2017 - An Irish traveller family behind the UK's biggest slavery gang was jailed for a total of 79 years for forcing men to work for nothing
By Daily Mail Reporter
Updated: 04:00, 28 January 2010 Police smash Irish traveller gang suspected of half of all caravan thefts in the UK.

Would you like any more examples? It is only you trying to label all travellers as rogues. Most people with half a brain can see that it is only a tinylawless minority grab the headlines. If you only rely only headlines in the gutter press the same accusations can be levelled at numerous demographics = the truth lies elsewhere.

I would suggest you are not very good and only turn up for the argument. The argument room is fully booked for the next few months so you will have to find another avenue for your constant troublemaking.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:56 PM

It's like saying all far right-wingers are callous thuggish fanatical sociopaths...

oh.. ..errrmmm...

..well.. surely one of 'em might still have some redeemable semplance of humanity...???

[Notice tommy's been arrested for violence again...]

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:35 PM

There you go again Ians ranting racist extremism
The majority of Slave owners in Britain are wealthy settled people who rely on their victims staying silent for fear of beig sent home
Picking the actions of a single family in order to depict Travelers as whole as slave owners if like claiming British people to be misogynist raving morons who spend taxpayers money in order to get their ends away because that is how the the present occupant of Downing Street beghaves
Many thians fro confirming toyr jackboot tendencies - much appreciated

Irish Travellers cannont get jobs because their lack of permanent residency makes them unemployable to any potential employer
That said, they wrok as hard as any employed person in orde to survive and are far more flexible in what work they take

Many thanks fro confirming your jackboot tendencies - much appreciated
Aren't you going to e late for your Beirgarten rally
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:42 PM

"Many thians fro confirming toyr jackboot tendencies - much appreciated"
More gibbering. They say a chimp with a keyboard could in time create the bible. Not so for your goodself !

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:47 PM

Jim - remember some of us lefties like Beirgarten German oompah polka bands..

So did a lot of good Germans before the far right coup and reign of fear...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:48 PM

Iains is so desperate to goad Jim, as a distraction to his own floundering...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:53 PM

I think my job is done here
Yi Ho Silverrrr
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:53 PM

I think my job is done here
Yi Ho Silverrrr
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 04:43 PM

The flak is rather heavy tonight. Lots of double bursts.
We must be on target then!

More Labour left turns and car crashes courtesy of Guido


https://order-order.com/2020/03/04/long-bailey-admits-pfi-involvement-legal-career-game-town/#disqus_thread

I do hope young beccy is elected. I have a title for her biography:
"The wilderness Years!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 05:49 PM

Definitely time to put this poor little thread out of its misery.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stanron
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 05:51 PM

Iains wrote: I do hope young beccy is elected. I have a title for her biography:
"The wilderness Years!

This was in her interview with Andrew Neil. My favourite bit was her reference to 'Chocolate Corbyn', but I suspect that this was a 'mis-speak'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:01 PM

I do not know why Chocolate Corbyn immedately makes me think of chocolate fireguards. Could it be that both are Synonyms for ineffective, inefficient, defective, faulty, purposeless, pathetic?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:08 PM

Hi Maggie. Please read the last day or two of this thread then close it. I'll start a new one, soonish. But please do that reading first.

Cheers

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:55 PM

I presume there is no further mileage in the ad hominem attacks.
I thought the left won the argument? ( But lost the election)
If you are winning the argument why so insistant on closing the thread?
Are you afraid to face up to the fact that the majority of the electorate finds your policies shite?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 09:25 PM

Well, Iains, that's another hot mess you've gotten a thread into.