Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US

Subject: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: anasophia
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:36 PM

There are quite a few songs popular in American folk music that originated in England, but I was surprised to find very few songs that originated in Ireland. Anyone have any examples? Of course there are many that crossed over between England and Ireland too, but given how many unique Irish songs there are it seems like there should be more that came with Irish immigrants.

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:47 PM

Well, a lot of "Irish" songs sung in the US, actually came from Tin Pan Alley. But most of those songs the Clancy Brothers and Dubliners and other Irish acts sang, actually came from Ireland - but much later than the Irish immigration.

Older songs? How about Kathleen Mavourneen, or the songs of Thomas Moore or Percy French, or Star of the County Down. Too many to count or list, I think.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:28 PM

Many hundreds (possibly thousands) of Irish songs were brought to the US following The Famine - largely as a result of the experiences of the immigrants back home and their reception in the US      
THese range from songs like 'Skibbereen' through to ones about being recruited to fight in the Army (Seven Irishmen)
A good place to search for Irish songs in America is the Helen Hartness Flanders site of New England songs
If you go further afield to Canada you will find many more
I embarked on a project to find Irish Child Ballads some years ago - Maine gave me some of my rarest examples
There are far more Ishish traditional songs that have found a home in America than there are that settled in England
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:17 PM

Some interesting background on "Skibbereen" HERE

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 01:49 PM

Martin, that link isn't working.

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 03:22 PM

Try this.


Old Skibb

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 03:52 PM

This is a song that could have originated either in Ireland or America.
Pat had trouble remembering it, we got it from others, but this is the only one avalilable on line
SEVEN IRISHMEN
There'as a dispute as to whether it refers to The American Civil War or the later War with Mecico
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 04:18 PM

It's difficult to believe that it could have disappeared. Was it ever recorded elsewhere, Jim?

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 04:57 PM

Very glad to get that information on "Skibbereen", Martin Ryan (and Modette).

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: mg
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 06:20 PM

I am related to a huge donovan clan from skibbereen.. i also have the words to a "new song from skibbereen", which is not new but i don't know how old it is. i will post sooner or later. I have some doubts about this article but they may be right. one of the most interesting songs of famine was give me three grains of corn mother. it sounds very victorian and overdone. except for the small fact that it is true. based on a coroner's report in county mayo..was read by someone in midwestern US soon after and she wrote the words. just give me three grains of corn mother and i will make it through the night. there was a later tune put to it which i think was unmemorable but i recently came across it sung in us as a bluegrass? festival with a good tune. Anyway, in coroner's report and/or story they said they searched the boy's pockets and found three grains of corn.

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: mg
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 06:37 PM

ew song on skibbereen where thousands patiently laydown and died for want of food Tune is Skibbereen

What cry is this upon the winds That’s falling on my ear
Are the yeomen at their work again That fills our minds with fear
Or do they weep because they’re slaves In this island fair and green
No it’s the wail of thousands hungry In the town of Skibbereen

The wife’s and babe’s provider With the broad and sinewy hand
Is stretched a naked skeleton No more to till the land
The partner of his miseries His cushla his mhuirneen
Is gone with him for famine spares No wives in Skibbereen

You’ll see the father falling while he saves the bit of food
To keep life in his offspring his own son his own life’s blood
The last is gone no friendly hand extending now is seen
Nor shrouds nor coffins round them in the graves of Skibbereen

Aye weep ye Munster girls now ye can afford to weep
Ye kbow not ere the morning breaks ye’ll rest in famine’s sleep
The laughing eye the blooming the smile so bland serene
Will disappear for hunger sweeps the maids of Skibbereen

And are we doomed to perish in our own green fertile land
Where the stranger had the welcome the full and friendly hand
But we may some day remember if we’re wanted by the queen
That hundreds patiently lay down and starved in Skibbereen

J. Nugent, Printer, 35 cook street, Dublin

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 07:09 PM

Apologies for the dud link - and thank you to GUESTModette for the patch!

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 04:36 AM

"Was it ever recorded elsewhere, Jim?"
We recorded it several time in Clare, the best version being from Michael, Straighty Flanagan, but apart from that, I don't think it was particularly widely spread
'Straight specialised in such GEMS
THIS IN PARTICULAR is an excellent example of how important and often forgotten pieces of our history were dealt with by song-makers
Jim

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 09:39 AM

Many thanks for the response. Jim.

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 10:02 AM

Mick Moloney did a very good book about Irish music in America called ' Far From The Shamrock Shore ' Crown Publishers, New York. Subtitled, The Story of Irish-American Immigration Through Song, CD of the songs included.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: GUEST,Thompson
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 10:54 AM

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be kind of gobsmacked by the statement of the title!

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 11:06 AM

I'd be curious to know why Thompson
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 12:28 PM

I suspect that many of the songs that Cecil Sharp found in the Appalachians were of Irish origin, but he claimed that they were of English origin. This is a man who thought that lowland Scotland and England were, culturally speaking, essentially the same, after all. I wouldn't be surprised if he purposely overlooked material of clearly Irish origin.

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 01:05 PM

I doubt it, though I did have difficulty in searching out Child Ballads of Irish Music in his Appalachian book
On the other hand, his secretary, Maud Karpleles's Newfoundland collection was one of the richness sources for Irish versions of the Ballads, and her articles on her trips were packed with information on the Irish communities she collected from
Would that some of the American collections wee as helpful - Helen Hartness Flanders's New England Ballads being the best by far

I doubt if Sharp ever left anything our deliberately, though his attitude to the black performers reflected the racism of his time
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Songs from Ireland Popular in the US
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 02:32 PM

Of interest, I think, is a new book (2019) by Dan Milner called The Unstoppable Irish - Songs and Integration of the New York Irish, 1783 - 1883

Available from Amazon


Jay