Songs of Harry Linn

Subject: Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 May 20 - 03:52 PM

Hi.
There are several threads devoted to Harry Linn's songs c1865 to 1890 but they could do to be pulled together. We have dedicated threads to Harry Clifton and Joe Geoghegan with plenty of detail and dating, but there is very little on Harry Linn. Nothing much comes up by Googling also. Like Clifton's and Geoghegan's songs many survived in oral tradition.

Even if we only manage to accurately date some of them it will be useful. Even Kilgarriff only has a small list of his songs. Here are those we know survived in oral tradition:
Eggs for your Breakfast in the Morning
Get a little table
Jim the Carter Lad
When the Cock begins to crow
You never miss the water till the well runs dry.

(By the way I expressed an opinion on another thread that he may have written 'The Jolly Wagonner'. This was patently wrong as TJW dates back at least to the 1790s.)

Like many of his ilk (Clifton) he didn't live very long 1845-1890.

Subject: RE: Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:05 PM

Have you seen the following, Steve?

https://books.google.ca/books?id=B9cIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PP6&lpg=PP6&dq=Harry+Linn%27s+Fireside+song+book&source=bl&ots=e1BWDpIHLy&sig=A

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:17 PM

Here's a little more succinct link to Harry Linn's Fireside Songbook, published by Pettigrew in 18884. There's a little red link near the upper-left corner that says EBOOK-FREE. It will allow you to download the book in various formats.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:19 PM

Hi Joe,
Tried the red button but it appears they haven't actually got a copy. Managed to look at the starts of 3 songs but that was all. It would be a good start if we could get a copy.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: cnd
Date: 13 May 20 - 06:58 PM

You should be able to read it; I was able to see all 12 songs. Songs were:

Speculation
I'm not a Mug
Give Back the Land
I Love the Bonnie Lasses
Handsome Highland Donald
Such a Nice Young Gal
We Can't Get On without Them
Bonnie Jeanie Deans
The Grass will grow again
The Cottage where Burns was Born
The Highlandman's Toast
Milking the Cows in the Afternoon

All 12 songs were visible in the Google Books eBook or on the link Starship provided -- though only 8 pages total, there are usually about 1.5-2 per page

If you still can't see them I can help in transcribing them from there but it's a bit of a tedious process unless you're worried about the eBook disappearing/being removed (or can't read it, maybe they've restricted what countries its visible in?).

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:27 PM

It would be worth comparing "The Grass Will Grow Again" written by Harry Linn found in the 1884 publication noted previously, and 'Sunny Days Will Come Again' (p.6, lower half and p.7) where the writer is noted as being Edwin Ransford in his own book published in 1873.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=SuMIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA7&dq=%22never+boys+give+way+to+sorrow%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAnr63-7HpAhVx

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 May 20 - 06:59 AM

Thanks for that. I'll try again though personally I'm only interested in those that have been found in oral tradition, probably his earlier songs as none are mentioned here. Useful to have these titles up as a strat though.

Also unless we can see the title page we can't be certain these are all songs that he has written himself. Joe offer's Fireside Songbook' quite likely would contain songs sung by Joe but not necessarily written by him.

Just for extra titles here are Kilgarriff's entries for Linn in the Lyricists and Composers section.

Did you ever see a Feather in a Tomcat's Tail? (Music by Minnie Cunningham c1890)
Get a Little Table (arr. W, Simm) 1882
Never push a man when he's going down. (Arr M. Hobson) 1869
(SG: Hobson also arranged many of Harry Clifton's songs about the same time and Clifton was noted for these 'motto' songs)
When the Cock begins to Crow (music Rowland Howard).

Here are those in the Artistes Repertoires section:
The fattest Man in the Forty Twa
get a Little Table
Going Down the Hill
Help One Another Boys
Jim the Carter Lad
Keep to the Right
Never be downhearted boys
Never dip your oar too deep
Never push a man when he's going down
Pull slow and steady boys
Wake up, Johnny
When the Cock begins to Crow
Where there's life there's hope
Y'heave Oh!
You never miss the water till the well runs dry.

I'll add my own sheets later.

The cover of When the Cock is online at the V&A website.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 14 May 20 - 09:25 AM

Steve, in the 'Songbook' there are some titles attributed to HL and others not. I'd expect he's only claiming those with his name near the title and the others aren't his, although those without his name are not attributed to anyone.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 May 20 - 10:09 AM

Thanks, Starship.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 14 May 20 - 10:45 AM

Rowland Howard's "You Never Miss the Water Till the Well Runs Dry" from the LOC:

https://www.loc.gov/resource/ihas.100010828.0?st=gallery

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 14 May 20 - 11:52 AM

This is very interesting.

"Alexander Crawford (alias Harry Linn)" from

http://www.spiersfamilygroup.co.uk/The%20Stoutest%20Man%20in%20the%20Forty.pdf

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 14 May 20 - 12:36 PM

Good lord I am slow bordering on witless. I didn't until a few minutes ago realize that Harry Linn was a stage name. He was born Alexander Crawford. DOH.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 May 20 - 02:43 PM

Perhaps I should have stated earlier which sheets I have copies of.
When the Cock Begins to Crow (cover only)
John Macraw, no cover and not original as it's dated 1908.
You Never Miss the Water, full copy Hopwood & Crew stock no1984.
Jim the carter Lad (full photocopy) Published by George Bell of Leeds.

I think those are the only Linn sheet music I have, but I probably have others on broadsides.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 May 20 - 09:12 AM

The song entitled 'Did You Ever See a Feather ON a Tomcat's Tail?' is somewhere in the following collection:

https://finding-aids.lib.unc.edu/30006/

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 May 20 - 09:32 AM

Never Push a Man Going Down Hill

https://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/collection/025/079

I don't know if that's the song, but the title is close.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 May 20 - 09:41 AM

Probably not the same song although Tony Pastor ripped off a lot of Harry Clifton's songs and just changed the place names to American ones.
A lot of this went on both ways across the pond.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 May 20 - 09:58 AM

Just found 'Pull Slow and Steady' at

https://books.google.ca/books?id=3Lk_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA356&dq=Never+dip+your+oar+too+deep&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHm4yngrbpAhWIVN8KHS

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 May 20 - 10:03 AM

That makes sense, Steve. Some things I'm finding suggest there was more than a little give and take between the UK and the US. Another place to look that people often forget about is Google Images. I do apologize for cluttering your thread. It's sheet music you're looking for and not lyrics.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 May 20 - 10:08 AM

With regard to the following, why would one song have two titles??

https://cobs.rollerorgans.com/cobs/293/home

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 May 20 - 03:07 PM

Fairly common practice going back at least to the 17th century on broadsides. They usually appear on the front cover with 'or' in between.
The first name is the title most commonly used but sometimes if the second title is more succinct or occurs in the chorus it gets known by that name.

And you are not cluttering the thread at all. You are as usual adding much useful information for future researchers.

It would be good to put a date to some of his earlier songs that went into oral tradition. 'Jim the Carter Lad' is probably the most famous and appears in plenty of collections.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 May 20 - 03:51 PM

Thank you, Steve.

The following may be of help on other of his songs/poems.

http://composers-classical-music.com/h/HowardRowland.htm

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 May 20 - 04:14 PM

The Fattest Man in the Forty Twa (Sheet music there)

https://digital.gonzaga.edu/digital/collection/p15486coll3/id/21030

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 May 20 - 06:24 PM

Yes, some useful dates there. Thanks.

That must be the cover off my 1908, Jock McGraw. I'll print it off when I get my new printer up and running. However, Linn died in 1890 so presumably there are earlier copies.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 May 20 - 08:52 PM

http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=12263

Another take for which I'll compare lyrics to the 1908 version.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 16 May 20 - 11:49 AM

Found an interesting comment on YouTube while looking for versions of the song.

"Bill McRobb
1 month ago
The song is about Sergeant McGaw of the Black Watch, 42nd Highlanders, who won the VC in the Ashanti War of 1874 during the Gold Coast campaign (now Ghana) the medals have Coomassie on them."

From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaWExv0KQ74

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 May 20 - 01:37 PM

Thanks again, Star. Printed off the colour cover sheet with my new printer/scanner. Great stuff. Back in business.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 16 May 20 - 01:55 PM

Cool, Steve. Glad it worked out.

https://www.maybole.org/community/kirkmichael/sergeant_samuel_mcgaw.htm

Something to check later.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 16 May 20 - 03:00 PM

. . . and the thought plickens:

http://blackwatch.www6.50megs.com/vc9.html

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 16 May 20 - 03:23 PM

Steve, do you have the earliest date for the Jock McGraw song?

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 May 20 - 03:59 PM

I don't have a date for the song and am dubious about connections to real people in the Forty-twa. Sam doesn't appear to have been fat enough to be described as such.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 May 20 - 04:06 PM

Hmm, it would seem the song is loosely based on the famed character, but M'Gaw was described as 'stout' meaning staunch rather than fat and Linn has interpreted this as 'fat'.

Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 16 May 20 - 04:09 PM

Many thanks.