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Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?

katlaughing 07 Jan 00 - 11:25 PM
Martin _Ryan 08 Jan 00 - 07:01 PM
katlaughing 08 Jan 00 - 07:19 PM
John Moulden 08 Jan 00 - 07:50 PM
Susan A-R 08 Jan 00 - 07:54 PM
Joe Offer 08 Jan 00 - 08:30 PM
katlaughing 09 Jan 00 - 12:46 AM
Pete Peterson 09 Jan 00 - 01:12 AM
John Moulden 09 Jan 00 - 09:52 AM
John Moulden 09 Jan 00 - 10:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jan 00 - 10:48 AM
Marymac90 09 Jan 00 - 11:04 AM
Pete Peterson 09 Jan 00 - 11:09 AM
Martin _Ryan 09 Jan 00 - 04:01 PM
Bob Bolton 09 Jan 00 - 06:40 PM
09 Jan 00 - 07:23 PM
katlaughing 09 Jan 00 - 07:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jan 00 - 07:56 PM
John Moulden 10 Jan 00 - 09:43 AM
katlaughing 10 Jan 00 - 09:50 AM
Martin Ryan 10 Jan 00 - 11:47 AM
Declan 08 Jan 03 - 11:54 AM
Alice 08 Jan 03 - 12:19 PM
Naemanson 08 Jan 03 - 12:28 PM
Alice 08 Jan 03 - 01:10 PM
GUEST,Q 08 Jan 03 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,Little Tom 07 May 14 - 11:06 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: IRISH ASTRONOMY (Charles G. Halpine)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 11:25 PM

Found the following in an old book of my aunt's called the National Encylopedia of Business and Social Forms, etc. copyright 1884 by J.R. Jones. It has an extensive collection of "Choice Selections From The Best Authors", including this one. I would like to share it and also if anyone has ever heard it as a song. Please note all spellings are as the author intended. Anyone know what the word "avick" means in this poem?

Also, there are many more, one of which is called the Last Hymn by Marianne Farningham, which is about a shipwreck off of Wales. Quite tragic. Has anyone heard it?

IRISH ASTRONOMY
by Charles G. Halpine

A veritable myth, touching the constellation of O'Ryan, ignorantly and falsely spelled Orion.

O'Ryan was a man of might
Whin Ireland was a nation,
But poachin' was his heart's delight
And constant occupation.
He had an ould militia gun,
And sartin sure his aim was;
He gave the keepers many a run,
And wouldn't mind the game laws.

St. Pathrick wanst was passin' by
O'Ryan's little houldin',
And as the saint felt wake and dhry,
He thought he'd enther bould in;
"O'Ryan," says the saint, "avick!
To praich at Thurles I'm goin':
So let me have a rasher, quick,
And a dhrop of Innishowen."

"No rasher will I cook for you
While betther is to spare, sir;
But here's a jug of mountain dew,
And there's a rattlin' hare, sir."
St. Pathrick he looked mighty sweet
And says he, "Good luck attind you,
And when you're in your windin' sheet
It's up to heaven I'll sind you."

O'Ryan gave his pipe a whiff--
'Them tidin's is thransportin',
But may I ax your saintship if
There's any kind of sportin'?"
St. Patrhick said, "A Lion's there,
Two Bears, a Bull, and Cancer"--
"Bedad," says Mick, "the huntin's rare,
St. Pathrick, I'm your man, sir!"

So, to conclude my song aright,
For fear I'd tire your patience,
You'll see O'Ryan any night
Amid the constellations.
And Venus follows in his track,
Till Mars grows jealous raally,
But faith, he fears the Irish knack
Of handling his shillaly.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:01 PM

Interesting! Never heard (nor saw) it before - but there would be little problem in suggesting a tune to use.
"avick" is phonetic spelling for the Gaelic expression "o my son". "Inishowen", incidentally, is a diamond-shaped peninsula in the north of Ireland (geographically, rather than politically) which was famous for the production of poteen (illegal spirits).

Regards


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:19 PM

Thanks, Martin.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: John Moulden
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:50 PM

It was published in popular song books, most recently in my experience by Walton of Dublin but I have never heard it or seen it notated.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:54 PM

Hmmm, sounds like one of those to which a tune might be made up if it isn't findeable. Boy am I slow on the uptake, even with the thread name, it took me a while to get what was happening. I may take this one on as a project Kat. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:30 PM

Well, you might be able to stretch a bit, add a chorus, and sing it to "Yankee Doodle." I'd like to find a tune that fits it better. This is one I could make use of.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 12:46 AM

Thanks, John, when was Walton of Dublin published?

Go for it, Susan. There are several more that I think would be of interest in that book. If I get inspired I'll see if my scanner will turn them out and then I'll post them.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 01:12 AM

Try it to "Jack of all trades"


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: John Moulden
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:52 AM

Walton and Co of Dublin has been a musical supply shop and publisher for, probably as long as a century. They published, sheet music, small song books, 78s and books - they still operate from North Frederick Street as "Walton's World of Music/Walton's Manufacturing" The booklet I mentioned was printed about 1960 but Waltons tend to recycle.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: John Moulden
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 10:36 AM

Last bite at the cherry --

Walton's "Irish Fireside Songs" no 1 page 30 (Dublin, no date) - there were 12 books in this series.

I don't know how I missed it but it is printed with a tune (The Girl I left behind me - Brighton Camp) in Sam Henry's Songs of the People page 58.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 10:48 AM

Never heard this one - but it'd also fit well to the tune of Courting in the Kitchen - which I can't seem to find inthe DT. But tat's the tune used for Miss Bailey,, which is in the DT with a tune. (And that way you'd get a Tooraly-a-laddy chorus thrown in.)


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Marymac90
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:04 AM

McGrath, speaking of "Courtin' in the Kitchen", when the Clancys recorded that way back when, there was a line in it: "She invited me to a hoolie in the kitchen!" Do you, or does anyone, know what the expression "hoolie" (sp?) means? That line has been playing in my head (only) for the last 25 years-my ex got the Clancy's records when we split up! Sorry for the thread creep.

Mary McCaffrey


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:09 AM

Good morning Mary Ann! I have always taken it to be a ceildi, or party, local pronounciation. . .


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 04:01 PM

Yes - hooley is a Hiberno-English word for "party". Don't know the origin offhand.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 06:40 PM

G'day All,

McGrath (and Kat): The Girl I left behind me/Brighton Camp is a well-known old tune - much used as a march in the British Army (and thus well-known to Irish serving in same). It also made a lot of mileage in the American Civil War.

We still use it as a dance tune, here in Australia and I can send you a MIDI, but I'm sure it would be in DigiTrad under one of its many aliases.

Reagrds,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From:
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 07:23 PM

Thank you, Pete and Martin. I heard the phrase on the record before I had ever heard the word "ceili" spoken. I once thought that "hoolie" was the way "ceili" was pronounced.

Pete, thanks again for coming to the gathering at my house last week. Your playing and singing added a lot to it. I'll see you at annap's.

BTW, I'm Mary, or Marymac, but not Mary Ann. No offense taken.

Best regards,

Mary McCaffrey


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 07:41 PM

Thanks, Bob, I am familiar with The Girl I Left Behind Me. Also, I am sure we had a fairly long thread on it and Brighton Camp, wasn't it last spring? BUT, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR MIDI OF IT, esp. knowing the instruments you're so fond of making music with! Don't suppose you use a lagerphone thingie in this one, eh?**BG**

Thanks, John for the info on Walton.

Áine used the word "hoolie" in a thread the other day.

All the best,

kat


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 07:56 PM

As I've always heard it used, a hooley is a less formal sort of an occasion than a ceili.

A ceili these days anyway implies an element of planning and even formality. You'd buy a ticket to go to a ceili.

A hooley is what happens or family get together and have a bit of singing or dancing or whatver. The English would probably say "knees-up" in the same context. So there's nothing unseemly going on in the kitchen.

And Bob Bolton, thanks for the midi offer, but I know the Brighton Camps/"Girl I left behind me" tune, and it's very much alive and kicking in England and in Ireland. (I ran into a Morris side that played it together with Beethoven's "Ode to Joy", and they work very well together.) And you're right, the DT has no fewer than 12 versions, and at least one has a midi of the tune.

But I reckon the "Courting in the Kitchen" one would probably work as well or better. These old songbooks, when they wrote the name of a tune next to a song, I reckon they often just wrote down one that they knew most people would be familiar with to which the words would fit.

I've done that myself with songs I've written, where I've a tune in mind that other people might not know. I don't think we should worry too much about singing a song to another tune from the one suggested, if we feel like it.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: John Moulden
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 09:43 AM

Because of other threads - Carrickfergus and McAlpine's Fusiliers I've been looking harder than usual at Dominic Behan's "Ireland Sings) (London, 1965). There is an introductory "Notes on some song makers of the past" which mentions Charles Graham Halpin -

This is a summary of what Behan wrote - it has not been checked:

Son of Rev Nicholas Halpin, who was editor of the Dublin Evening Mail for some time. Charles wrote for the "Boston Post" and then in New York for the Herald, the Times and the Tribune, edited (briefly) a periodical "The Carpet-Bag" in which he wrote satire. He became a lieutenant in the 69th Regiment of the Union army at the outbreak of the American Civil War, acted as adjutant to General Halleck, ended the war as a Brigadier-General. Afterwards he had great influence in the Democratic Party and had a hand (perhaps a leading hand) in cleaning up Tamany Hall. He wrote also "Not a star from the flag shall fade" as a song for his regiment.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 09:50 AM

Wow, John! That is great! Thanks a lot, katlaughing


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 11:47 AM

McGrath

Yes -"knees-up" is a good translation!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Declan
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:54 AM

To answer the question on the original post (better late than never) avick is an anglisation of a mhic, which means my son.

As for hooley, I can't think of a gaelic derivation of the word, but it could have derived from Ceilidh. As for Ceilidhs being formal gatherings, this was a word borrowed by the Gaelic League for formal dances, but the tradion of ceilidhing was of informal gatherings in peoples houses, where the houses were open to all comers to sing, dance, play music or just socialise.

I think the derivation is from the Irish "le chéile" which means together. Houses which were opened up in this way were known as Céilí houses, at least in the northern part of Ireland, there were other names for this in other parts of the country.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:19 PM

I have this song with notation in a book called "Celtic Fakebook". I'm surprised people have said they have not heard it. The publisher of the song book is Hal Leonard. The song is described as "Irish popular song by C. G. Halpine". It has its own tune, not the ones people have suggested.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Naemanson
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:28 PM

John Campbell (not that one, the folkie fisherman in Rhode Island) has included it as a song on his album. I have it on cassette. I don't know how I can get it to you if you want it.

The tune he uses sounds Irish but I don't know if he wrote it or borrowed it.


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:10 PM

If you can't get it from Naemanson, maybe I can sing it into an mp3 file and post it.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:41 PM

Hooley-hoolee-houly-hooli-hohli (Hindu holi) was the great festival of the Hindus at the approach of the vernal equinox. The word came into English in the 17th century, brought back by soldiers, merchantmen and English-Irish-Scots working in India for the commercial concerns. It is not Irish. See OED.

Ceilidh-ceili is from the old Irish word for companion, as suggested by Declan and so noted in the OED (1987 supplement).


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Subject: RE: Irish Astronomy 1884 poem-was it a song?
From: GUEST,Little Tom
Date: 07 May 14 - 11:06 PM

Try the Hal Leonard "Folk Song Fake Book." I think page 168. Lyrics slightly Americanised for popular consumption by non-Dogans, otherwise, melody line on treble clef with chords above score


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