Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen

Subject: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 04:02 PM

Can anyone name dance 2?

Recent TV broadcast about Elizabeth 1^st - Shadow in the Sun - still on iPlayer. Shadow in the Sun - Involved a dance/ball about halfway through.

One was part of a dance I have tried at a ceilidh involved the man with hands on the woman's waist (polite version) lifting her, much aided by her springing at the same time, and twisting 180 degrees or more. Pivoted from the perspective of the man's position. That dance is call "La Volta".

The other has been harder to name, it starts with a sedate walk, side by side. It had a signature move that involved unfamiliar stepping, viz kicking feet to the front, straight legged, on the spot. One leg then the other fairly rapidly maybe 6 - 9 inches, such that both feet are off the ground at some point. Both partners. Any ideas on naming this dance &/or move?

On a website about a 16c book Orchesographie by Thoinot Arbeau - the illustration greve gaulche could be half of the stepping. It might translate to "Gallic strike" (or spacer even) though Goggle hasn't mastered medieval dance nomenclature.

The translation for branle certainly raises a smile, if out of context. Naughty Mr Goggle!

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 05:04 PM

Could it have been the Galliard Mr Red? In the film 'Anne of the Thousand Days' Anne dances it with Henry V111, and the moves sound rather similar to those you describe.

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 10 Mar 21 - 01:39 AM

It does sound like a Galliard. Was the time signature 6/4?

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: BobL
Date: 10 Mar 21 - 02:06 AM

See it at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM-eJ42lmGE. Worthwhile just for the comments.

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: BobL
Date: 10 Mar 21 - 02:20 AM

And, I might add, making it look so natural needs a terrific amount of practise!

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Mar 21 - 03:48 AM

Yea, I had a reply from Historical Dance UK who say "Galliard". - Their Fakebook

However U Tub videos show more refined (sedate) versions. More moves too. The Galliard above shows the stepping "on the move" which is not always the case in other videos. eg The same stepping but "on the spot" (as in the film) can be seen in videos of Pavane.

The signiture stepping is there in both dances and part of the sequence. I think its inclusion is much like ranting or, say, a Rigadoon step. Sort of "add at will" kinda stylee.

In the film the pace of the sedate promenade & vigorous stepping was chosen to simulate the "Perpendicular expression, of horizontal desire" as GBS put it. And FWIW pictures of the method of hold in La Volta supports this, which might be a visual "quote" from a similarly-minded wit of those days. Ooer missus, indeed!

thanx 4 replies, I have stopped digging now

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 10 Mar 21 - 04:29 AM

Queen Elizabeth 1st of England, or of the UK?

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 10 Mar 21 - 07:30 AM

Of England. The current Queen is styled the second of the United Kingdom even though she is really the first and the second only of England. But it would be too confusing to have two styled the first.

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 10 Mar 21 - 03:20 PM

Heheh! There are many confusing things about living here; this is merely scratching the surface.

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Stower
Date: 10 Mar 21 - 03:43 PM

I haven't seen the film, but the description does seem like a galliard, or possibly its faster, closer to the ground dancealike, the tourdion. The likelihood of getting a historical dance right in a film is extremely low. I've worked on film sets playing historical music for dancers, and the truth is that actors are actors, not dancers, so on a tight schedule the choreoghrapher is working with the art of the possible, not the accurate, and it's improbable that anyone on set cares about historical accuracy. If it matters, Queen Elizabeth I will not have danced La Volta in public, despite the rumours and the paintings purporting to show her doing so, for reasons explained in this article.

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Mar 21 - 02:28 AM

Yea there are web pages that explain the La Volts hold, but refer to the "Busk" which I would have called a "Bustle" - (the scaffolding holding the skirt out at the back) the Busk holds the dress out at the front and is part of the corset structure. So the dance is not "lewd" per se, but can be the victim of "spin" (pun wasn't intended - but I'll take it).

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Stower
Date: 11 Mar 21 - 05:18 AM

A busk and a bustle are quite different. The dance *was* considered lewd, as the man held the woman in a very suggestive area. There is no evidence Elizabeth danced La Volta, and this would have been a very good reason not to. For historical details, see my article posted above.

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 11 Mar 21 - 11:06 AM

This, from orchespgraphy, is priceless:

ARBEAU

The lavolta remains uniform in all its parts, the same at the outset as at the end. When you wish to turn release the damsel’s left hand and throw your left arm around her, grasping and holding her firmly by the waist above the right hip with your left hand. At the same moment place your right hand below her busk to help her leap when you push her forward with your left thigh. She, for her part, will place her right hand on your back or collar and her left hand on her thigh to hold her petticoat and dress in place, lest the swirling air should catch them and reveal her chemise or bare thigh. This done, you will perform the turns of the lavolta together as described above. And after having spun round for as many cadences as you wish return the damsel to her place, when, however brave a face she shows, she will feel her brain reeling and her head full of dizzy whirlings; and you yourself will be no better off. I leave it to you to judge whether it is a becoming thing for a young girl to take long strides and separations of the legs, and whether in this lavolta both honour and health are not involved and at stake. I have already given you my opinion.

CAPRIOL

The dizziness and whirling head would annoy me.

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Stower
Date: 11 Mar 21 - 11:28 AM

Orchésographie is full of gems. My favourite:

"naturally the male and female seek one another and nothing does more to stimulate a man to acts of courtesy, honour, and generosity than love. And if you desire to marry you must realise that a mistress is won by the good temper and grace displayed while dancing … And there is more to it than this, for dancing is practised to reveal whether lovers are in good health and sound of limb, after which they are permitted to kiss their mistresses in order that they may touch and savour one another, thus to ascertain if they are shapely or emit an unpleasant odour as of bad meat. Therefore from this standpoint, quite apart from the many other advantages to be derived from dancing, it becomes an essential in a well-ordered society.”

More on that book in the article here.

As for QE1, I reiterate that she did not dance La Volta in public, all the evidence is against it, not due to dizziness but for decorum and good politics, for reasons explained here.

Subject: RE: Elizabethan Dance in film about Queen
From: Jos
Date: 11 Mar 21 - 01:02 PM

As for the 'dizziness and whirling head', just a quick jerk of the head in the direction the world seems to be spinning should sort that out - I believe it is caused by the liquid in the ear still going round after the dancer stops spinning.