Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'

Subject: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 01:28 PM

Not sure if many of our friends across the pond are into Scottish music and this is only loosely 'Folk music' but I am sure some will enjoy this version of 'Highland Cathedral' as much as I do. I get very emotional listening to it.............. enjoy!!                https://youtu.be/tAsdo0zMUyA

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: RandyL
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 01:54 PM

Wow!!!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 02:28 PM

It is beautiful but it’s neither Scottish nor folk music. It is a fairly modern composition by two Germans. Playing it on the bagpipes doesn’t make it Scottish.
I do however think it’s very good.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Feb 22 - 01:03 PM

Thanks for the link, Georgiansilver. It's lovely.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Feb 22 - 03:07 PM

Yes Jim McLean...I did know that but it has been adopted by the Scottish people and was even considered as a National Anthem by them instead of 'Flower of Scotland'.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST,Houghma Gandhi
Date: 05 Feb 22 - 04:52 PM

Naw it wisnae - iver.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 05 Feb 22 - 06:04 PM

I don't think HC has seriously been considered as an anthem. Some folks on the net saying this or that would be a good anthem isn't the same as the "Scottish people" considering it.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 05 Feb 22 - 06:12 PM

People quite like the tune but I think hardly anyone would know the words put to it and in truth the words I have heard don't match up to the tune. It simply isn't in the general publics ken in the way FOS or Loch Lomond is. Witness the game today where these songs were sung throughout the match by the crowd. No-one much sings HC or even could if they wanted to as just about no-one knows the words.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Feb 22 - 07:59 PM

The other horse in the race is "Caledonia", which has gone anthemic despite a dismally mediocre tune. HC is WAY better.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 04:02 AM

I kind of agree re Caledonia. I like it as a song but not an anthemic tune for me especially in the verse. Mind at least people know the words of the chorus - who on earth knows Highland Cathedral's words? Only a tiny minority I'd think. Though again folk write and discuss what would be the best anthem thing but there has been no real debate by the "Scottish people" as such about what it should be nor has the "Scottish people" considered it been HC. The popular anthem used at football and rugby games is FOC and despite its flaws it was sheer people power that put it there. Imposed as an anthem from the ground upwards rather than chosen by someone else and imposed on the people. Even as late as the 80s "God Save The Queen" was still played at football matches and it resulted in huge sections of the crowd booing their own anthem then the crowd would sing "Flower Of Scotland". "Highland Cathedral" is popular especially among folkies but it doesn't enjoy anywhere near the popularity among the general masses that FOS did in the day!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 05:28 AM

I find it amusing that before any England v Scotland event, the English team sing about England's Queen and Scotland sing about England's King :0)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 05:33 AM

Says a lot, that does.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 10:57 AM

Except the people being addressed in Scotland's anthem for sports occassions is not the English or their king but the people who stood against said King - and the English anthem is about the Queen who is not just their Queen but the Queen of the whole UK. They decided not to have an anthem of their own so instead use the shared anthem which is their choice. I rather like the tune of Jerusalem which looked like it might become the anthem sung at England games.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 12:31 PM

Perhaps the doubters should have a read of this.......https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Cathedral

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 12:56 PM

So what ?

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: meself
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 01:13 PM

I'm not saying this to be a contrarian or to rain on anyone's parade, but ... am I the only one who doesn't get the appeal of this melody? I'm not knocking anyone for liking it - or loving it, even - I'm just surprised that it is, apparently, so popular .... It strikes me as, to use my grandmother's pet diplomatic judgement, "very ordinary" .....

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 01:19 PM

National anthem, rubbish! It's a dirge; mind many anthems are :)

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 03:53 PM

You are not alone, meself. Your granny was a very perceptive lady with good musical taste.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 04:33 PM

Proposed by who though. Various folk on the net or in papers occasionally say this or that would be a good anthem. But there has been no serious popular movement for this or for anything else to be a new anthem.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 06:52 PM

It's a "Marmite" tune: people seem to either love it or loathe it. I'm in the love it group, and it was a favourite of both of my parents, who lived in Aberdeenshire, so a recorded version was played at both of their funerals. I went through about 100 different versions on iTunes to find the "right" one, which was, appropriately enough, the Grampian Police Pipe Band's recording. Some of the others were absolutely dire, with electronic instruments, rock band drumming, etc.
The Andre Rieu version in the link was stirring, but too symphonic for me, just as the sung versions tend to be done by big operatic choirs and not by any folk singer I've ever heard. (Ok, I did surprise them all once in a session in England when assembled company played the tune, and I then launched into singing it - just happened to have the words with me! "Oh, we never knew there were words" they said!)
It does often get played at rugby internationals, but by pipe bands, and not sung. I remember being at one match, in the West Stand at Murrayfield: looking across the pitch, there's a gap between the top of the East stand and the roof, through which I could see the whole Edinburgh skyline while the pipe band played - now that I did find stirring!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST,Iains
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 09:42 AM

Another clip of Highland Cathedral.
The Drummer boy must have some bottle to take solo lead in a band that size.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oieFS785QPk

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 11:44 AM

Meself, you are surprised that the melody is so popular. Try comparing it in your mind's ear with the tuneless pop, rock, and country songs of today, and then imagine that you have never heard a tune like Highland Cathedral before.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 12:37 PM

Tattie Bogle, the guy who wrote the main lyric to Highland Cathedral, which is an officially licensed version - is 'Ben'/Peter Kelly an Inverness Tenor Light Operatic singer who used to also appear in Scottish heather n' haggis mannered shows. Hence the form they take. The words are awful. Bombastic, unmemorable and sound forced. But, they are what was allowed to be later contracted - and put our in print and on recordings. It therefore remains far better as a tune.. though I've always thought it a German modern (C) dirge, though many wrongly think it's a Scottish trad. dirge. It's all in the ear of the beholder - but the main official' words will never be fully taken up as a folk song by the average person.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 12:45 PM

Agree Rossey we have a regular at our club who sings the song a lot and even though she is a good singer I honestly don't much like the lyric. Burns it ain't. She is the only person I have ever heard sing it in person.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 01:58 PM

Here's a bit about both the tune.. and how Ben's lyric came to be. His real name is Peter, but because of another professional performer doing the rounds he called himself Ben Kelly for musical purposes.

https://www.electricscotland.com/history/scotsman/anthem.htm

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 03:23 PM

I cartainly think "in the Highland Cathedral of our God and King" is a bit out of step with 21stC Scotland. ?? Why on earth would we seriously think about replacing one song accused of being backward looking with that ??

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 03:38 PM

God and King is of course the religious bit; literal usage of the title. Here in the Cathedral to the glory.. etc. As not everyone is a believer, it's an awkward one.   Though I also wince when I hear modern songs using archaic usage of Caledonia and Scotia.. I can't ever picture my own kids singing lustily away to it.   Highland Cathedral like all anthemic tunes has a bombastic feel, and the words Peter Kelly fitted to it, are equally over the top in that vein.. then that limits it as a choir piece, or for the trained tenor types.   It's just not a song of the people for the people. though occasionally you do hear it at events, as some choir or bandleader takes it up.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 04:34 PM

Here's an anthem for the 21st century in Scotland :

https://youtu.be/K_ekIS9QWSA

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 05:02 PM

According to the stats only 7% of Scots regularly attend church and only 53% support the continuation of the monarchy. So I imagine the % who attend church and are monarchists must be below 5% or so. So yes The Proclaimers lyric is far more relevant. I like that song for the sentiment but in truth I think they have more memorable tunes

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 05:20 PM

Of course another factor is that Scotland is now a multi-cultural faith and secular society.. so how you reflect that with the Concept of God the King, and obvious Christian concepts of Cathedrals? Plus of course a hint there of ye olde world sexism. Also shoehorning in Scotia and Caledonia in one song, gives an added layer of old style clumsy naffness. There are plenty of threads on Scottish national anthem possibilities on Mudcat, but with its words, this song is not going to ever make the grade.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 05:58 PM

"A Man's A Man" might be a couple of hundred year's old but it is more modern in sentiment and more relevant. Plus there is nothing really specifically Scottish about the Highland Cathedral lyric.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 05:40 AM

Doesn't "A Man's A Man" ignore about 50% of the population ? I wasn't seriously suggesting "Scotland's Story" as a national anthem, only pointing out that there are many songs a damn sight better and more relevant than "Highland Cathedral".

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 03:36 PM

I wasn't really suggesting Burns song as an anthem either. Just pointing out it's words and sentiment are more modern than singing about God and King. You are right of course a person is a person ?? I don't have a problem with FOS being the anthem. Not the greatest of tunes either but it is the popular choice. Words can be criticised but so can most anthems. We get a lot of foreign tourists at our pub sessions though and they often ask for FOS so it must have something.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 04:02 PM

Hi Rossey, yes, I know all the background re Ben Kelly and his set of lyrics, and I'll paste them below in case anyone didn't bother to follow your link. I agree that the tune is better than the words, but do not agree with you and others that it is a dirge! I also found another set of lyrics, and even wrote my own, as part of our songwriting group's homework a few years back! Note that it was written well before the 2014 referendum or the Brexit vote, and has probably not seen the light of day since!
And musically speaking, it's interesting in that the key change doesn't go from major to relative minor: I play it in G major, which then goes to B min!

And I think you'll have some protest from the women of this equal opportunities world if anyone suggests "A Man's a Man" for a national anthem: there are several parodies along the lines of "A Wumman's a Wumman for a' That" which the ladies might sing instead!

HIGHLAND CATHEDRAL         BEN KELLY
Land of my fathers, we will always be
Faithful and loyal to our own country.
In times of danger, we will set you free.
Lead you to glory and to victory.

Hail, Caledonia, to our ancient land.
In this Highland Cathedral let us stand as men.
Joining together with one dream to share.
God bless the people of this land so fair.

Gone is the past, let us start anew.
Let this hope of peace, always remain.
Children of Scotia, be strong and true.
Then our children will smile again, again, again, again.

Rise, Caledonia, let your voices ring
In this Highland Cathedral of our God and King.
Whom, joy and liberty, to all, will bring.
Come; let your heart, with love and courage, sing.

Lonely the exile o'er distant seas,
the home of their birth, gone from their eyes.
Bring back their souls o'er the ocean breeze
to the land where their fathers lie.

Rise Caledonia, let your voices ring
in this Highland Cathedral of our God and King,
Whom, joy and liberty, to all, will bring,
Come, let your heart, with love and courage, sing.

ALTERNATIVE VERSION:          ? SOURCE

There is a land far from this distant shore
Where heather grows and Highland eagles soar
There is a land that will live ever more
Deep in my heart, my Bonnie Scotland

Though I serve so far away
I still see your streams, cities and dreams
I can't wait until the day
When I'll come home once more

And so Lord keep me from the harm of war
Through all its dangers and the battle's roar
Keep me safe until I'm home once more
Home to my own in Bonnie Scotland

HIGHLAND CATHEDRAL - MY OWN VERSION-THE ALTERNATIVE AND THE FUTURE?                                                                                                
                                                                                ©Trish Santer 04.06.07.

Scotland, the country that first gave me life,
Scotland has had its share of war and strife,
Scotland, my vision is for you to be
The land where we all can live in harmony.

Gone is the prejudice, the bigotry,
Nae mair we’ll talk of the auld enmity,
While foreign lordships brought us misery,
We can rise as a nation again, again, again, again……….

Standing together, we can stronger be,
Highland and Lowland men and women free,
Though of Pict or Gael or Nordic ancestry,
Proud of our nationhood as Scots are we.

Gone are our shipyards, and closed the mines,
Many the changes Scotland now defines,
Highland Cathedral can be mosques or shrines,
But we’re all part of Scotland the brave, for aye, for bye………..

Rise Caledonia, in this century
Of promises growing from our history,
Holyrood Parliament shall soon agree
Full independence for our destiny?

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 08:55 PM

A Good attempt at getting out of some of the cultural tangles Tattie Bogle. Though a slightly revised version would be necessary, and also permission sought from Universal Music for any formal publication. Ironically, with Peter/Ben Kelly's version it goes into this stuff about starting anew, but then witters on as it invokes the past. Then there's "In this Highland Cathedral let us stand like men... " presumably to have a pee - women excluded (unless she wees are employed). God that macho line stinks. In that world Scotland is exclusively populated by burly kilt wearing men. In the last two years, I find lines about brave Scotland/Caledonia/Scotia ironic, as we have cowered not very bravely before a virus. It's all a myth, a cultural affectation and a hangover from when the military side of Scotland was an identity factor. Though we can all hope for success in sport, and 'anthems' are part of the inspirational side to that.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 11:19 AM

Definitely not intending to publish my version formally! Putting it on here is about as far as it gets. Wrote it in 2007, sang it once in our songwriting group, then forgot about it. Happy to keep Highland Cathedral as a Lied ohne worte!

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 12:57 PM

Yesterday I counted, and there are 27 versions of Highland Cathedral on YouTube. People of today long for melody the way a thirsty dog longs for water.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: GUEST,MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 02:26 PM

> People of today long for melody the way a thirsty dog longs for water.

It's cyclic, and generational: I remember the joy and rejoicing in the early sixties when the yoof of the day rebelled against their elders in the recording industry and produced real music. Pulp music is what happens between revolutions, to keep said industry ticking over. End of rant.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Scottish music....'Highland Cathedral'
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 04:01 PM

And Leeneia, as I said above, there are 100 versions of it on iTunes - of very variable merit.....