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audience singing along in concert
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Subject: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:03 PM A truly sad occurrence inspires this opening to this thread, referencing the Twitter account of Eliza Carthy MBE. As you all know, her dearly beloved mother, Norma Waterson, recently died of pneumonia complicated by COVID-19 at a ripe old age. Peggy Seeger very recently presented a concert in the UK, her son Calum McColl accompanied her. Ms. Seeger knew well, and loved/loves, the Waterson/Carthy clan, so Eliza was most welcome in the audience from Ms. Seeger's perspective. A song was dedicated during the performance (an encore?) to the memory of Norma Waterson, as per Peggy Seeger's intro. Thus, Eliza began to sing along with Peggy, from the audience. (This was 13 March I believe.) How was it that Eliza, as she later Tweeted, "dissolved in tears and had to remove myself before the end"? Simple: the audience member seated next to Eliza interrupted her singing along with Peggy Seeger, to admonish Eliza, saying that she herself had "come to hear Peggy [sing]". It was, as Eliza tweeted, "first night out to a concert in a very long time," which surely coincides with the final illness, passing away, and memorial/funeral of/for Norma Waterson recently. Eliza added in a later Tweet, "It wasn't a prestige thing for me to be there, those people are my family and I really needed to be with them last night, magnetically. Need. Peggy Seeger is another mum to me and I needed her." Enough said ... your turn. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Tattie Bogle Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:04 PM This is really sad: I saw Eliza's post on Facebook about this. Presumably the ignorant person who told her to stop did not recognise Eliza and hence how much this would mean to her. Yes, on other occasions it can be irritating to have someone next to you singing along all the way through a concert, especially as, unlike Eliza, they are usually way out of tune. I have been known to do it, but only if the performer asks the audience to join in, and that's usually only on any choruses. And beware if you try anything like that in Edinburgh Playhouse during a live concert: in recent times over-zealous stewards have been ejecting patrons for such heinous crimes as singing along, tapping their feet (or hands on knees) or clapping to the music!! |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,NigelParry Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:04 PM Folk music It is music of, for and by people (folk). For me, it is a shared experience. So I'm with Eliza on this one. At true folk events, singing along is encouraged. And speaking as a performer, the most magical moments often happen when you hear a song 'sung back at you' - often with the most sublime harmonies. More singing at concerts please. If you want to hear me in perfect clarity (more fool you), rather than be immersed in the folk experience, then buy the CD. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Howard Jones Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:05 PM I have to disagree. Maybe the folk clubs, concerts, festivals and sessions I've been going to for the last 50 years weren't "true folk", but my experience has been different. Joining in with choruses, definitely. Singing along with the verses, definitely not unless the performer has indicated it's OK. It may be music "of for and by the people" but in my experience of hearing traditional singers in traditional settings the audience would never join in with the verses, it would be disrespectful to the singer. "Best of order" was expected and given. I don't doubt this was upsetting for Eliza and I'm sorry for that, but I also have sympathy for her neighbour in the audience. I think what Eliza did was entirely understandable, and most of us in this situation would probably have cut her some slack in the circumstances, but it was nevertheless inappropriate behaviour for an audience member. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:06 PM Thread title: A single member of the audience does not an audience make. That the individual is a working folk musician makes it even more atypical. For me, it is a shared experience. So I'm with Eliza on this one. If you're selling tickets... it ain't folk, it's business. Share with all or you're just picking a side. It's a three way deal with the venue, artist(s) and audience, all of them... together. It's not that complicated really. Most everybody else present was not sharing the grief, certainly not to the extent. Some big halls close their doors when the show starts. You can't even walk into the room and take a seat. Singing or dancing in the aisles is right out. Does not matter one bit who is on the stage or how one feels moved by the moment. Were it a local public house or large open air festival, the feedback would likely be very different in my experience. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Steve Shaw Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:06 PM I think there's a difference between going to something informal like a singaround-type thing or a folk club do and a concert which you've paid very likely big mazumas to attend. At the latter I wouldn't really want to sit next to someone who was rustling sweet wrappers/crunching crisps/humming or singing along. The last time I clapped eyes on Eliza was thirty years ago (in Bude, if she reads this) and I probably wouldn't know it was her if she plonked herself down next to me these days. If I realised it was her maybe I'd be dead chuffed if she harmonised a bit with the stage act, but quite possibly not for the whole gig...? There's a common disease among harmonica players (of which I'm one though I haven't got the disease) called gussing. You're in the audience when the harp player on stage plays something you're familiar with, so you whip out your blues harp and join in (not something you could do with a double bass...) It's not on! On the whole, it all depends... |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:07 PM My first thought was: why 'tweet' about the incident? We all lose people we love. Some people say and do insensitive things which are not deliberate attempts to hurt, even if they do. Less of the "poor me"! |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:07 PM I guess there are two ways of viewing this, and people tend to fall into one of two camps. My blood relatives, for example, subscribe fully to the convention of a professional standard of entertainment. They cannot stand Martin Carthy -- I speak from experience, I invited one relative as my guest when Carthy was at the height of his vocal powers, years ago -- because his stage presence is not the ingratiating, oily, syrupy sort that they are used to from the really commercial entertainments. Mister Carthy, and his worthy daughter Eliza, subscribe to the other concept of an extended family. I have to say that, by definition, this warm, embracing, familiar experience is a circle that includes some and excludes many others; and I have myself experienced the shadow side of that exclusive circle, when I went backstage and could not praise the headlined performer in person because they were cordoned off by a tight ring of local folkies who would only let through people whom they recognized, and I was a total stranger to them all . . . and remained so thereafter. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,StephenH Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:08 PM I think what's being missed in some of the comments is that this was at a Peggy Seeger concert - someone who very much believes in audience participation. Although I don't know Eliza Carthy personally, I cannot believe she would have joined in in a way that overpowered Peggy. Evidently Peggy's son Calum had remarked that the audience didn't make very much noise for its size - which could mean one or two things but would seem to fit with encouraging singing along. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:09 PM Both Eliza Carthy and Peggy Seeger have got Twitter accounts and keep them regularly updated, and so do many who attend their performances. I don't yet know, but I am guessing that Peggy Seeger by this time has been told what happened . . |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,r.padgett Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:09 PM The Spinners came to Barnsley many years ago and I unwittingly upset an elderly lady by joining in on choruses ~ I was much younger then of course I have similarly come in for criticism at local festivals for joining in Folk clubs are smaller and I find on occasion those joining in sing and sometimes it's OK sometimes er NOT harmony wise Folk generally should be participatory ~ lots go just for that, and as said above nothing better for an artist to hear audience singing back even better with singer songwriters ~ "Band played Walzing Matilda", "Caledonia", etc
The whole concept of "Why" guest artists learn songs and arrange them is quite fundamental here too ~ I am pretty sure that there is little demand for people to make CDs to sell as a financial incentive the late Roy Bailey on the final night at Towersey ff and everyone joining in with John Tams "Rolling Home": |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:11 PM Janie Maneely and Rob Van Sante have been presenting an online series of concerts from English performers I have waited all my life to hear. They hosted two concerts by Martin Carthy. The more recent concert was postponed several times because of Norman Waterson's illness and death, but it finally happened 26 Feb 2022. It was everything one could hope for from Martin Carthy. If you explore the crosslinks, you can find all sorts of treasures, including a 2021 concert from Martin Carthy. Take a listen: |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Mrrzy Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:16 PM Sing along. Make joyful noises unto the world. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Felipa Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:17 PM One thing I enjoy about Zoom sessions is that when I am muted, I can freely sing along. And doing so reinforces my memory of lyrics. At an in-person I would mainly sing along with choruses, only sometimes very quietly with verses. The story of Eliza Carthy's unfortunate experience at a Peggy Seeger concert and of Keberoxu's experience bringing friends to a Martin Carthy, reminds me of a time I attended a Peggy Seeger concert in a theatre and a person next to me was complaining to her neighbours about how badly Peggy sang "First Time Ever I Saw Your Face." The complainer was wanting the Roberta Flack rendition. Her criticism of Peggy Seeger's singing was terrible to me because I knew that Ewan MacColl wrote the song about Peggy, something the critiquer probably was unaware of. I also had the experience of a couple next to me making disparaging remarks about Joe Heaney's singing when he took his turn on stage at a concert which featured other more popular-type Irish singers and musicians. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: Stringsinger Date: 01 May 22 - 02:31 PM Traditional singing is an acquired taste. You've got to put on a different set of ears. Peggy is thoroughly and entirely musical. She's of course not a pop singer ala Flack. You gotta' listen for interpretations. Peggy, Pete and Mike gave honest and creative interpretations of folk songs. If Pete or Peggy invited you to sing, well sing, damn it, if you want to. Some people pay money to a Seeger concert because they get to be a part of it by singing along. Some rock concerts have a paying audience to get up and dance at their seats blocking the view of the performers. You can still hear the performers. The dancers paid their money too. Part of the thrlll of a live concert is when the audience can participate in the show. OK don't sing along with Bach or Beethoven unless the conductor invites you to. Or maybe at a jazz concert although what depopularized jazz is the absence of dancing. Take your cue from the guy/gal onstage. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: Sol Date: 01 May 22 - 08:27 PM TBH, I can't help singing along at concerts, especially if I have a good harmony line in my head. Recently, I have come to realise that the people around me may have objections to my imput. As a result, I now make a concientious effort to refrain from singing or at least sing in the lowest volume possible. That said, if everyone around me is singing, then all bets are off. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: Joe Offer Date: 01 May 22 - 08:33 PM I remember the first time I went to a Bill Staines concert. It was at the old Palms Playhouse in Davis California, a legendary venue. The place was only about half full, an audience of about 75. But everyone there knew all the lyrics to all the songs, and sang along with all their hearts. I went to Bill's concerts there every year after that. And then one year, Dave the manager forgot to book Bill, and I never got a chance to hear him after that. But those several Bill Staines concerts were the best audience singing I have ever heard. I think of myself as a song leader, not a performer. If I can't get people to sing along with me, I feel I've failed....but I'm usually successful. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Don Meixner Date: 02 May 22 - 09:26 AM As in the first post, this very thing happened to me once years ago. I wasn't kind Don. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,radriano Date: 02 May 22 - 11:35 AM I would only sing along if the performer asked the audience to sing along. That being said I thought the woman asking Eliza to stop singing did it in a rude way. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 04 May 22 - 02:04 PM From the performer's angle, the audience singing along as a chorus is sometimes vital, as in A Policeman's Life Is Not A Happy One. As another example, at last Monday's online Singaround, I was persuaded to do Hang Them High (which involves the end of each chorus being sung more and more discordantly); it didn't go down that well, despite Herself's help. When I'd done it at our local folk club with a live audience, well .... I've never seen an audience so entertained by bad singing. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: David C. Carter Date: 05 May 22 - 05:05 AM Pavarotti doesn't like it,especially when he's performing Nessun Dorma. I'll get me coat. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST Date: 05 May 22 - 05:27 AM Some years ago now, I went to a Lonnie Donegan concert in Edinburgh and couldn't help singing along. The guy behind grabbed me and just about pulled me off my chair... "I haven't paid to hear you sing, pal!" :-( Talking of Eliza, I would feel very sorry for her in such a situation. I also felt for her at a concert during Kelso Folk Festival last year when she was performing with Martin. Naturally, Martin was taking more of a back seat. Who can blame him? He's eighty, after all. However, some ignorant heckler shouted at Eliza. "I've come to listen to Martin. Not you.." Thankfully, he was asked to leave or did so of his own accord. I can't remember. Anyway, it was a great concert and Eliza was brilliant as was Martin...of course. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: Johnny J Date: 05 May 22 - 05:29 AM Ooops.... I'll try again now that I've logged in. Some years ago now, I went to a Lonnie Donegan concert in Edinburgh and couldn't help singing along. The guy behind grabbed me and just about pulled me off my chair... "I haven't paid to hear you sing, pal!" :-( Talking of Eliza, I would feel very sorry for her in such a situation. I also felt for her at a concert during Kelso Folk Festival last year when she was performing with Martin. Naturally, Martin was taking more of a back seat. Who can blame him? He's eighty, after all. However, some ignorant heckler shouted at Eliza. "I've come to listen to Martin. Not you.." Thankfully, he was asked to leave or did so of his own accord. I can't remember. Anyway, it was a great concert and Eliza was brilliant as was Martin...of course. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: Stringsinger Date: 05 May 22 - 04:08 PM I always ask the audience to sing along and am honored if they sing choruses to songs I've written. For a songwriter, this has to be gratifying. The song is thereby important enough to elicit participation. A folk song concert isn't an event like a classical music or jazz concert that requires a silent audience. The tradition of the Hootenanny fostered by Pete Seeger is part of a folk song experience which often serves to break down the division between audience and performer. In a folk culture predicated on community whether accompanying work or relaxation, participation is what makes it "folk". The concert approach in folk is of recent vintage. I do like to listen to old ballads that tell a story for fifteen verses but also relish a chorus where I can participate as in taking a breath without disturbing the continuity of the story. I think as an audience member, this pulls me into the song more. As a performer, it gives me reassurance that the audience is interested in what I'm doing. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,The Sandman Date: 08 May 22 - 05:01 PM I like audiences participating when I sing choruses. If Eliza would like to join in with me anytime she is welcome. she is welcome to play fiddle too. Dick Miles |
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Subject: RE: audiencew singing along in concert From: GUEST,Lin Date: 08 May 22 - 08:15 PM For me, ONLY if the singer on the stage requests for the audience to sing along on a particular song. If it is a concert where I have paid a lot of money for a ticket I really don't want to hear other people singing in the audience if the performer has not asked for partipation. It can be extremely distracting to hear the singer on the stage when other people around you start to sing. Usually I have found that very well known folk artists will only ask maybe on one song, if they do at all,(for audience to sing along).Thank goodness! In many cases the people singing around you seem to have loud or really bad and out of tune voices. I have never really liked the audience to sing along, period and always hope the singer on the stage doesn't request it. And no, I never sing along! Not my thing. So one audience singalong song is ok, but that's it. I remember years ago going out on a date with this guy and he had the radio on in his car. He said that he liked to sing. So EVERY song that came on the radio, he would sing along with and very loudly. EVERY song! It became very annoying and I thought it was very rude. I didn't complain or say anything but never went out with him again. He called me but I told him I was busy or something. So that experience left a negative feeling for me to hear people "singing along" even though I know that is a totally different situation. He was also way out of tune.???? but even if he wasn't, I still would not want to hear someone singing so much in car, especially while driving. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: meself Date: 08 May 22 - 09:07 PM It's almost as if there were different strokes for different folks, or even different horses for different courses ... or one man's meat is another man's poisson, to borrow from below-the-line .... |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Julia L Date: 10 May 22 - 10:25 PM The whole "sing-along" thing is very much subject to cultural variation in my experience. Here in Maine, people are generally less demonstrative and getting an audience to sing is difficult. Upon reflection, this may be because the singing tradition here is largely solo ballad singing with few choruses. People would gather to hear the story being told in the song and not interrupt the singer, similar to Travellers we have heard in Scotland. A few years ago, we started our tour in Machias, which is way "Downeast" in a relatively conservative area. We felt we had moved the audience when they actually unfolded their arms and chuckled occasionally during a humorous bit. A few days later we did pretty much the same set in Maryland and people went wild, singing on choruses, stamping their feet during peppy songs and laughing uproariously at the same humorous bits. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Keith Price Date: 11 May 22 - 01:44 PM I think people who insist on singing through a concert are making a statement, 'look at me I'm a proper fan, I know all the songs' Some years ago Martin Carthy was booked at the Everyman folk club Liverpool.He was joined all the way through his first song by a man in the audience. At the end of the song Carthy looked puzzled, laughed and said 'did someone sing that with me' Thankfully we never heard from the man again. When I go to hear a live concert, I know the music is seldom the exact same as the recordings. It's interesting to see what the artist might do with the songs and music, without the distraction of someone who knows the CD inside out. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: meself Date: 11 May 22 - 03:06 PM 'I think people who insist on singing through a concert are making a statement, 'look at me I'm a proper fan, I know all the songs' I don't suppose there is any possibility that there are a few people who really enjoy singing and, in particular, enjoy singing the songs that are being performed in the concert, and who have no intention of 'making a statement'? |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Keith Price Date: 11 May 22 - 04:13 PM I have no doubt they are enjoying themselves meself, it's whether the people around them are enjoying their performance. Carthy certainly didn't enjoy your mans efforts. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,The Sandman Date: 11 May 22 - 05:14 PM slightly different circumstances, Keith. I know Martin personally, and he was upset and annoyed by the woman telling Lisa off. i am of the opinion this thread should be closed, it is achieving nothing and is negative. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,Keith Price Date: 11 May 22 - 05:28 PM Yes you're right on both accounts Dick, but before I go. I was referring to the thread title and not Lisa in particular. |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: GUEST,The Sandman Date: 12 May 22 - 12:11 AM no problem ,Keith |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: Mrrzy Date: 13 May 22 - 05:14 PM I can't not sing along if I know the lyrics |
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Subject: RE: audience singing along in concert From: Doug Chadwick Date: 14 May 22 - 05:43 PM I can't not sing along if I know the lyrics That could be a problem if your version of the lyrics don't quite match what the person on stage is singing. The artist's interpretation of the tune may also differ fromt what might be expected. For me, singing along is best limited to choruses and the artists should be allowed to sing it first on their own, then the audience should try to follow that version. I always enjoy it when the singer invites the audience to sing along. DC |
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