Applause Between Movements of a Symphony

Subject: Applause Between Movements
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 05:01 AM

I was brought up to believe that one should never clap between movements at a symphonic performance, but I admit that I sometimes slip and clap and other times feel smugly superior to those who do clap. But deep in my heart of hearts, I think it's a nice thing to clap. I mean, maybe that third movement of Dvorak's Seventh is the best of them all, and deserves applause. So, I'd like to applaud, but then I feel guilty if I do.
Thoughts?

-Joe-

This article says maybe I shouldn't feel guilty about clapping between movements.
https://apnews.com/article/9cc22bdea9214ca68e233c956139e0ae

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 06:24 AM

Not applauding between movements is a modern affectation. In Beethoven's day, you would not only applaud enthusiastically between movements but you might even "force" the musicians to play the movement again! When I started to go to classical concerts on the South Bank in the early 70s you'd regard anyone who had the temerity to clap between movements as an ignoranto and would give them the withering stare. These days, the applause is commonplace though not quite routine. That's fine by me!

The wearing of short hair and ties by men as marks of tidiness and seriousness are similar affectations, no more than twentieth century fads. So be careful as to whom you give the withering look. It may not be they who are the ignoranti!

I heartily agree about Dvorák 7, his mighty and successful attempt to get himself regarded as dwelling among the symphonic giants such as Brahms and Beethoven, but the lyricism in his 6th, 8th and 9th is also hard to beat. The versions I always come back to are the ones conducted by István Kertész in the sixties. Sadly, he died in his early forties in a drowning accident, a great loss.

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 06:38 AM

Er, sorry, Joe, I typed that before I read your excellent link, so I was sort of giving an unintentional potted repeat of a lot of its content...

I'm absolutely no lover of jazz, but we once took my elderly father-in-law to a Humphrey Lyttelton concert for a birthday treat, and we were subjected several times to that applause after solos within longer pieces. I must confess that I found that to be intensely annoying, seemingly to me more of an automatic in-crowd thing than true appreciation, but I'm more than happy to be shot down for expressing that attitude...

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 01:19 PM

But you MUST applause between sections - especially after solos- of a jazz performance. If anyone applauds after a set in an Irish session, my mate has a stock response- "Don't clap, just throw money".

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: GUEST,Oriel
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 01:40 PM

The movements of a piece of music are like the verses in a song - they are part of a whole. Applauding between them destroys the continuity.

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: Stanron
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 02:01 PM

We used to say "You're only clapping cos we've stopped".

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 03:25 PM

Well, Oriel...Where's the "continuity" between scenes or acts in operas or plays? I'm not sure that continuity in the sense of non-stop, non-gap performance (that, let's face it, could last for a good hour or two...) is the best thing for audiences or performers, and I have a feeling that composers/playwrights have that at the front of their minds...

Decades ago I went to a superb performance of the St Matthew Passion at the Royal Festival Hall. It takes about five hours to perform and we had a lunch break in the middle...

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 03:34 PM

Many years ago, we went to a choral performance in the Lutheran cathedral in Helsinki, and although the choir sang wonderfully, every piece was met with taphic silence. Perhaps the audience felt too embarrassed to clap in a church, I don't know. Finns are not renowned for their outgoing personality anyway. It came to the end of the evening, and someone came on- in absolute silence- with a bunch of flowers to present to the conductor. Which was received in absolute silence. We Brits couldn't stand it any more, and started applauding. It was taken up be the rest of the audience, and applause resounded for maybe five minutes. Perhaps they were all too inhibited to be the first.

What Oriel says may be true of some music, but composers like Haydn and Telemann composed, well, basically background music for posh receptions. They were just workers, maybe someone would have condescended to notice it occasionally, but would only bhave mentioned the fact discreetly to the host.

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: Hagman
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 05:05 PM

Recently went to a performance of Handel's Messiah, where the audience clapped enthusiastically after every item. The conductor and orchestra were obviously pretty used to it - they went straight on with the next piece, sometimes without waiting for the applause to peter out.

In that particular work, I found it distracting and disconcerting, but that's just me. If it had been a piano sonata or a symphony, I would have been really annoyed. As would, I'm assuming, the performer/s.

Extrapolating the jazz example, where to stop? The first cello does a lot of work in the Messiah - thankfully, there was no applause in the middle of pieces after her excellent work. I know opera has different traditions, but generally the main applause is held back to the end of the act. That feels right to me, as does waiting to the end of a cohesively-constructed musical work in the concert-hall.

I didn't wear a tie, but my hair is pretty short. And yes, if Beethoven had plumbing available, he would have used it. On the other hand, he probably wouldn't have taken a call on his mobile phone while conducting one of his symphonies, assuming his present-day hearing aids would have enabled it.

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 23 - 05:22 PM

I like to sit near the front of modern symphonies. Once I was in the front (orchestra) section where seats had been left out so the seniors behind me could be in his and hers wheelchairs. Just at the end of the first movement of Sibelious' Seventh the cellphone in the purse on the floor started ringing. The acoustics in the Atwood are excellent. All the musicians waited silently. All the audience waited silently. The couple had to reach the purse, locate the phone (which presence seemed to be a surprise to them. They took a little time, but everyone handled it in a most civilized manner, the musicians promptly went to the next movement and I think everyone lived to attend good concerts again.

Nothing like it live.

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 03:23 AM

Jack Sprocket: "taphic silence".

That's a new word for me and I can't find it my dictionary, or online.

Is it a typo?

I'm genuinely interested!

Harry

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 04:05 AM

From t?f?? (taphos), a tomb. Not in the dictionary? Could the Cat be an earliest reference for the OED?

Don't run away with the idea that I'm a classical scholar, I just like using Greek or Latin roots. Monippopolis - a one-horse town....

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 05:13 AM

Robomatic - Just in the interests of correctness and pedantry, Sibelius' Seventh is a symphony in one movement...

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 06:35 AM

Yes, I wasn't going to say anything... :-)

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 25 Jan 23 - 08:28 AM

Me neither :-)

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 07:13 AM

For the record, applause between sections is even more problematic at the ballet, as you've got both orchestra and dancers to consider. The protocol seems to be: it's acceptable to applaud at a good bit, but pipe down if the dancers and orchestra move onto the next part.

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: GUEST,Oriel
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 08:18 AM

Steve Shaw - the movements in a piece are like the verses of a song, not the whole musical. Scenes and acts are supposed to provide a break, for the bladder as well as in the action. Songs don't have a pee break.

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 08:54 AM

In this fast moving world in which we live, we rarely have the time to sit contemplatively through 40 or 45 minutes of a symphony (I do try to manage it a couple of times a week). It's often a case of listening in the car or kitchen to bleeding chunks, and Radio 3 Essential Classics and most of Classic FM's output consists either of bite-sized musical "lollipops" (as Thomas Beecham called them) or of single movements from symphonies or concertos. I'm incredibly happy that we have so much classical music on the radio (and occasionally on the telly) and I'm not ever going to snobbily dismiss the way it's routinely given to us. But I think we're getting so accustomed to hearing the music in these smaller doses that it somehow seems more natural to applaud after a few minutes rather than wait until we've had three-quarters of an hour or more. All we're doing is gradually abandoning that particular stuffy 20th century affectation. I'm all for it, and what could be nicer that hearing all those sat around you expressing their enthusiasm and enjoyment of great music. I'd rather they didn't cough or chatter through the actual music, however!

Subject: RE: Applause Between Movements of a Symphony
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Jan 23 - 09:36 AM

As an occasional soloist myself, I think it’s nice to clap in response to a really fine solo bit when it comes in the middle of a larger work, especially a concerto or something choral. You don’t have to keep it up for ages; just give enough to show the performers that you noticed and enjoyed a special moment.

Musicians are usually cool enough to go with it, and they definitely like — no, let’s be honest, they live for — the positive feedback.