Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments

Subject: Professionalism or lack of it
From: GUEST,A 363
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 11:07 AM

I was at a Festival and heard a well known performer make an uncomplimentary comment about two other performers who were on at the same concert.
I thought it was the epitome of unprofessionalism.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: GUEST,Robin Finch
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 12:28 PM

I feel that way about Master Of Ceremonies, a good MC should give everyone a positive up beat intro.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 12:44 PM

Context is everything. I'm thinking of Morecambe and Wise and Des O'Connor... Beware of misreading an in-joke!

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: GUEST,A363
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 12:59 PM

It was not a joke.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Helen
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 01:40 PM

I agree, Guest A363.

I don't think it is appropriate to make uncomplimentary remarks during a performance about other performers at the same concert. In my opinion, there should be common courtesy afforded to other performers in public, and they can state their opinions in private if necessary.

In fact, I can't remember seeing any music performer dissing other performers while onstage. (Not counting comedians. The total repertoire of some comedians revolves around dissing everything and everyone, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for some of them to disrespect other performers on the same bill.)

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 03:17 PM

I'm happy to stand wrist-slapped, but there wasn't exactly much information in the opening post!

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Helen
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 04:04 PM

The clue is in the discussion being in the music section and not below the line.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 05:26 PM

?

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 05:36 PM

I emceed a concert at a folk camp once, and I didn't know very many of the performers. I decided to tell outrageous lies about every performer, and I suppose most of the lies had a negative tone...but I thought it was just in fun. It didn't go over. Since then, I've made only positive comments about performers when I emcee, and I make a point to learn a little bit about every performer, or ask the performer questions if I don't know.
Nowadays, people like my performance when I emcee.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 05:52 PM

Depends on the culture(s) of the professional and their audiences. The more mainstream one wishes to be, the more one need mind the simple manners one's mother (should have) learned one. The more niche, the less consideration for your "others." eg: Clueless or inside jokes. Punching up, down, sideways, backwards-over-the-shoulder-with-a-mirror... is always punching.

Professional Trinidadian calypsonians will insult the last and next act in one lyric. American rappers 'disrespect' each other live on the same stage and alone in the studio... and they really do mean it. It's roots are very African but even the Euro-American chantying video game assassins these days are relearning their own lost art of flyting.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Helen
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 06:01 PM

Live and learn, eh Joe? :-)

I used to make wisecracks without thinking and I often upset people. I just have a pun-ny sense of humour which other people didn't always appreciate. Now I think before I speak, well, most of the time.

The worst wisecrack I ever made was a line I had heard, which was inspired by the Dustin Hoffmann movie Tootsie. I said "Hoffman, Hoffwoman" i.e. half man, half woman to a young male work colleague whose surname was Hoffman. He was so upset, and then I was so apologetic. I felt bad for a long time after that and it made me more careful about what I said out loud. I could still think funny/pun-ny thoughts but I didn't have to say them aloud all the time unless I was sure of the likely reaction.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 07:05 PM

Context is everything!

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 08:10 PM

When I was a festival organiser, I used to write brief MC notes for those doing the job on our open ( but pre-programmed) stage, so that the MCs could have something positive and relevant to say about each act that came on.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it
From: meself
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 08:58 PM

It is important to be aware that words can come across far more powerfully when they are uttered from a stage, such that what anywhere off-stage might a perfectly innocuous joke or anecdote may be disturbing coming from the person at the microphone.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: GUEST,A 363
Date: 04 Feb 23 - 04:20 AM

The Comment was made on stage, it was not a joke.
The two named performers were present at the concert.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 23 - 07:01 AM

Well obviously I trust in what you're saying, but there isn't enough information here about the incident in question for me, so I'm struggling. I know you can't name names, of course.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: meself
Date: 04 Feb 23 - 11:26 AM

Okay, GUEST,A 363 - so what do you want from us?

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Feb 23 - 12:37 PM

Guest, I know what you mean.

If you are among artists and performers, it doesn't take long before you detect professional jealousy in some people. In fact, it's so common and so recognizable that "professional jealousy" is a standard phrase.

Is the artist who exhibits professional jealousy a mediocre artist? Probably. Is s/he lacking in shrewdness? Certainly. If the act being ridiculed is a good one, s/he will be judged stupid, and if it's not that good, s/he will be judged a bully. Either way it won't add to the good atmosphere of the event.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Helen
Date: 04 Feb 23 - 02:13 PM

Well said, leeneia!

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 02:46 PM

Thank you, Helen.

Here's another point. We should bear in mind that the content and the performing are two different things. For example, a singer's tone may wobble, or the throat might be hoarse, but if the song is interesting, beautiful or unique, we should pay attention and not ridicule.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Feb 23 - 11:42 PM

In a recent, mid-level advancing to high tutorial the accomplished performer explained, hand signals.

The encouraging signals used with novice are not appreciated by advanced. Good feelings are one thing, approximal perfection another.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

i> blessed be ... we can meet together again.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 02:57 AM

...but if the song is interesting, beautiful or unique, we should pay attention and not ridicule.

Electric Dylan controversy

Your starting point was this not being true for the person with the stage & microphone at that particular moment. It's always not true somewhere in any audience of any size and audiences can be brutal.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 09:02 AM

Did the two named performers have a go back at the well known performer?

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Helen
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 02:30 PM

Guest, mayomick, I think it would have been good if the two named performers had said what leeneia said on 04 Feb 23 - 12:37 PM.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 04:12 PM

For a look at well known performers who exchange veiled and unveiled insults at each other, check out "An evening you will regret for the rest of your life" with Steve Martin and Martin Short. In their case they are old friends and the insults are part of the performance.

Meanwhile, most folks either know or learn how to act with each other. I agree that context is everything. One of the problems with social media is that a great deal of context gets stripped out of our windows, particularly the setup information that is often not optional, but required.

We are not all acculturated to the internet (yet).

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: GUEST,MichaelKM
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 05:50 PM

Naming no names, of course, is it possible to let us know exactly what was said?

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 23 - 06:10 PM

Good request. Until such happens...

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Helen
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 02:47 AM

I don't think we need the specifics of who said what to whom. I think the discussion is about professionalism or the lack of it in performance situations.

I think that by specifically stating the words used it would just pull this discussion down to the level of personal disagreement about whether or not some people believe that the person/s being targeted "deserved" it. That will not help the discussion of the topic, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 03:53 AM

We don't know enough to have anything like a useful discussion, frankly. We have no information about what was said, who said it, how it was said and to whom it was said. We don't know about the demeanour or the reactions of the protagonists. What a strange thread.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 04:25 AM

OP: I was at a Festival and heard a well known performer make an uncomplimentary comment about two other performers who were on at the same concert.
I thought it was the epitome of unprofessionalism.

Yes.you.did.

Anyways...

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 05:28 AM

""We don't know enough to have anything like a useful discussion, frankly".
Exactly.
The OP : "I was at a Festival and heard a well known performer make an uncomplimentary comment about two other performers who were on at the same concert.
I thought it was the epitome of unprofessionalism."
Who's going to disagree with that ? What are we meant to discuss ?

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 05:31 AM

:-)

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 07:37 AM

Even if we see this as banter and in jokes, we need to be aware that audience members might not be in on the joke. This could cloud the opinion of an audience member who may have never seen the person who is the butt of the joke, or even worse it could create a bad impression of hat the folk scene is like - particularly a first time audience member.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: meself
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 02:53 PM

"It was not a joke."
"The Comment was made on stage, it was not a joke."

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Helen
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 02:54 PM

SPB-Cooperator, I agree.

It reminds me of the Code of Conduct and similar policies used in many of the places where I have worked in my lifetime, mostly government organisations.

One of the factors in the anti-harassment code is that if the person being targeted is offended or feels negatively affected by comments or behaviour of another person, then it is considered to be harassment, even if the perpetrator claims that s/he was only making a joke, and even if it was only a single incident.

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: GUEST,Dick Miles
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 05:17 PM

I have seen it occasionally over the years, 47 YEARS that i have been gigging in the uk folk world, there is always something positive one can say, if not, BETTER NOT say anything.
I recently heard a clip of Martyn Wyndham Read, nearly 80 and still a wonderful voice

Subject: RE: Professionalism or lack of it-nasty comments
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Feb 23 - 05:38 PM

Memories of the late Tony Capstick.....Give it up for two wonderful young talents that that play and sing marvellously, so who cares if they ARE ugly and misshapen.....