Scots Traveller language dictionary

Subject: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 04:44 AM

I went to the launch of this two days ago. Good piece of work. This is the web version, only 50 copies were produced in hard copy.

https://travellers.scot/

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: cnd
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 09:41 AM

Thanks for putting this together, Jack. Not too long ago I was helping transcribe a Travlers song and had a very hard time finding a reliable source for the slang on the web.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 11:10 AM

It's not 'slang', it's a language.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 11:17 AM

I think this is an excellent resource. My only problem is that the translation appears to be fairly narrow in its research, in as much as the sources are taken as correct without question.
A good example of this would be the word Bori (Barra in the dictionary). Bori would refer to an individual rather than Peeve (drink/alcohol), and would alter between Bori (m) and Boro (f) for important (Big Gentleman/Lady). Bori Rye. However this is archaic. There also needs to be clearer delineations between Shelta, Cant and Romany. However this is more of an academic expectation than any serious criticism. I imagine this is work in progress, and congratulations all round.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 11:33 AM

I think RA is mistaken. All Gypsy or Traveller languages in this day and age, were once pure languages, but are now diffused with other influences. The main one in the UK of course is English, so we talk in terms on Anglo Romany today. The languages are interchangeable so Cant (Gypsy folk call it barrow boy talk) taken from street talk, is mixed with Shelta, Gammon, and modern slang. I do not believe that this devalues the language in it's current use, any more that our beautiful regional accents and dialect devalues the English language. If slang is an unacceptable word then maybe colloquialism may replace any missing respect.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: cnd
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 12:06 PM

Apologies, no intention of disrespecting Scots Travellers or their language -- I am American and have never heard of or interacted with them beyond this forum. The song I helped with only had snippets of the language and was largely sang in English. Sorry for any ill will generated.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM

the thread title just reminded me of Sheila Stewart ( weel kent traveller singer from the famous Blairgowrie family) telling me of her delight when arriving at the airport on her first foreign singing visit.
Her delight was at seeing the sign for TRAVELLERS' LOUNGE' & amazement that attitudes had changed so drestically.....

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM

sorry that was me...

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 23 - 06:40 AM

A direct quote from the volume under discussion:

"This Dictionary includes terms traditionally referred to as Romany, i.e. the inherited Indo-European variety spoken by Roma Gypsies and related to ancient Indian languages such as Sanskrit, and also the rather vaguely-conceived Cant, i.e. vocabulary not found in standard British English that has historically been dismissed, generally contemptuously, as slang."

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 10 Sep 23 - 07:02 AM

I think we have dealt with that already on this thread, see above. I still think the dictionary is an excellent resource, I have some reservations about the Forward and Introduction and some of the sources. Never the less they will not detract from the overall success of the venture, and the are only my reservations, and not really relevant to most users. The above quote is quite correct overall, but omits other areas of interest. Worth a mention as above but not really that important.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 11:10 AM

It's not 'slang', it's a language.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 11:17 AM

I think this is an excellent resource. My only problem is that the translation appears to be fairly narrow in its research, in as much as the sources are taken as correct without question.
A good example of this would be the word Bori (Barra in the dictionary). Bori would refer to an individual rather than Peeve (drink/alcohol), and would alter between Bori (m) and Boro (f) for important (Big Gentleman/Lady). Bori Rye. However this is archaic. There also needs to be clearer delineations between Shelta, Cant and Romany. However this is more of an academic expectation than any serious criticism. I imagine this is work in progress, and congratulations all round.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 11:33 AM

I think RA is mistaken. All Gypsy or Traveller languages in this day and age, were once pure languages, but are now diffused with other influences. The main one in the UK of course is English, so we talk in terms on Anglo Romany today. The languages are interchangeable so Cant (Gypsy folk call it barrow boy talk) taken from street talk, is mixed with Shelta, Gammon, and modern slang. I do not believe that this devalues the language in it's current use, any more that our beautiful regional accents and dialect devalues the English language. If slang is an unacceptable word then maybe colloquialism may replace any missing respect.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM

the thread title just reminded me of Sheila Stewart ( weel kent traveller singer from the famous Blairgowrie family) telling me of her delight when arriving at the airport on her first foreign singing visit.
Her delight was at seeing the sign for TRAVELLERS' LOUNGE' & amazement that attitudes had changed so drestically.....

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM

sorry that was me...

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 23 - 06:40 AM

A direct quote from the volume under discussion:

"This Dictionary includes terms traditionally referred to as Romany, i.e. the inherited Indo-European variety spoken by Roma Gypsies and related to ancient Indian languages such as Sanskrit, and also the rather vaguely-conceived Cant, i.e. vocabulary not found in standard British English that has historically been dismissed, generally contemptuously, as slang."

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 10 Sep 23 - 07:02 AM

I think we have dealt with that already on this thread, see above. I still think the dictionary is an excellent resource, I have some reservations about the Forward and Introduction and some of the sources. Never the less they will not detract from the overall success of the venture, and the are only my reservations, and not really relevant to most users. The above quote is quite correct overall, but omits other areas of interest. Worth a mention as above but not really that important.

Subject: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 04:44 AM

I went to the launch of this two days ago. Good piece of work. This is the web version, only 50 copies were produced in hard copy.

https://travellers.scot/

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: cnd
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 09:41 AM

Thanks for putting this together, Jack. Not too long ago I was helping transcribe a Travlers song and had a very hard time finding a reliable source for the slang on the web.

Subject: RE: Scots Traveller language dictionary
From: cnd
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 12:06 PM

Apologies, no intention of disrespecting Scots Travellers or their language -- I am American and have never heard of or interacted with them beyond this forum. The song I helped with only had snippets of the language and was largely sang in English. Sorry for any ill will generated.