Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs

Subject: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Jan 24 - 05:33 PM

Here's a long shot request. The Formby Times (Lancashire) 22 January 1969 reports a performance at the Wheelhouse Folk Club of one Pete Stevens, formerly with the group the Billy-boys. Any info requested.
My interest is in the name 'Billy-boys' and its unlikely link to a type of east coast sailing ship.

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 12 Jan 24 - 07:02 AM

Can't help you myself Steve. I think the 'Travelling People' ran the Formby club. I'll ask Hughie Jones he might know, unless you're in contact with him yourself on facebook,
I just hope they had nothing to do with the Orange Lodge. :)

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Jan 24 - 07:47 AM

Thanks, Keith.
I'd also be interested in what people thought the name 'Billy-boys' came from in this case. Your reference to Orange Lodge intrigues me. I'm not in touch with Hughie although I went to see him in Liverpool a few years ago at a TSF meeting.

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 12 Jan 24 - 08:34 AM

It was a common term used in Liverpool.
Inherited I think from a gang of Glasgow bigots in the 1920's known as the 'The Billy Boys.
There's a song and a chant they used at Glasgow Rangers matches.Haven't a clue if they still use them.
I'll phone Hughie today and see if he has any idea.

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 12 Jan 24 - 08:44 AM

Colin Batho has just put on facebook, Steve.
He said they were a folk group from the Wirral in the early 60's.
He remembers seeing them at the Spinners Club.
Hughie might know more if I can catch him, didn't answer the phone just now.

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 24 - 02:10 PM

Very interesting piece of relatively modern folklore. Thanks very much for your effort, Keith!

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 13 Jan 24 - 02:58 PM

Just spoke to Hughie on the phone Steve.
He knows even less than me and I know nothing.
Sorry mate.

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jan 24 - 05:12 PM

Billy Boys
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Billy_Boys
Billy Boys originated in the 1920s as the signature tune of the Billy Boys, who were a Protestant street gang in Bridgeton (an area of Glasgow historicall

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 24 - 10:42 PM

Noo ye've heard o the Billies and Sallys
The Norman Conks and the San Toy
Here's two more tae add tae yer tally
The Derry and Cumberland Boys

Hamish Imlach, "The Derry and Cumberland Boys"

While in India a year or so ago, I found a copy of Andrew Davis' City of Gangs: Glasgow and the Rise of the British Gangster - an excellent read with histories of all these gangs. Recommended!

Jo Bartlett

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 24 - 08:51 AM

Thanks, all.
I have enough info now. It's interesting that the Glasgow gang name would have come from supporting King Billy, and one of the origins of the billyboy ships' name is said to be from that same source, but I think it's highly unlikely. There is a statue of King Billy in Hull that dates back to the early 18th century and 'billyboys' was said to have been applied to Hull men. Then by association to these vessels many of which were registered at Hull, but these vessels didn't appear till about 1820 and in all my researches I have seen no other evidence of this.

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 14 Jan 24 - 12:13 PM

Were they flat bottomed like the Thames Sailing Barge Steve.

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 14 Jan 24 - 10:45 PM

The Billy-boys featured prominently in Peaky Blinders.

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 01:37 PM

Keith, absolutely, so they could discharge their cargo on a beach. They weren't built for speed but their hold capacity was good for their size.
They were basically Humber sloops with bulwarks and more sheer, but they quickly developed better rigs such as topsail schooner and later, ketch. Some descriptions give cutter rig but very few of the 400 I have notes on had this. Most were built in the Humber and inland ports, but they were also built all along the east coast from Sunderland to Kent, and latterly one or two in Holland. The most likely derivation of the word is from an earlier similar Dutch vessel, the bijlander. (by land, i.e., coaster).

Subject: RE: Billy-Boys of Formby, Lancs
From: GUEST,Keith Price
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 02:58 PM

Interesting stuff, good luck with your research Steve.