UK political topics 2025 1 thread only

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 01 Jun 25 - 07:06 AM

Re earlier posts about coal.

BBC Radio 4Extra recently repeated the 5 part series

Worked Out

Episode 3 Kent

"Ian McMillan explores the marginal and forgotten coalfields of England.

Most British pits closed long ago and memories are fading whilst away from the major coalfields many people don't even remember that coal was recently mined in Somerset, Kent, Shropshire, Cumbria and The Forest of Dean.

Are we doomed to forget our industrial past?

How do the ex-miners in the Garden of England remember it?

Ian is in Kent to chat to Mike Sole, Fred Thompson, Bill Gilham, Sam Robinson and Jim Davies.

With music from The Betteshanger Welfare Brass Band.

Producer: Tim Dee"

It was an interesting programme which covered the history of miners coming from other parts of the country to work here and the reception they got from some of the locals.


A couple of years ago, people from The Aylesham Heritage Centre, opened a pop up shop in Dover devoted to the history of the Kent mines. A very friendly bunch they were too. Within a couple of minutes after entering, 2 of the volunteers engaged me in conversation. I am old enough and local enough to have been at school with miners children, so already knew some of the history.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 25 - 03:49 AM

Having considered the implications, I think I am happy with Starmer's deal. It is a step in the right direction anyway and the concessions over fishing rights will only affect an industry that has all but left these shores anyway. Trouble is, the Daily Heil will sell this to its readers as giving away our sovereignty and whip up another wave of xenophobia. I don't have much time for Starmer and his Tory lights but, in this case, he has my sympathy. Either do the right thing for the country or risk the moronic wrath of the brexiteers.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 20 May 25 - 10:44 AM

Here's what I think.

The Lib Dems are saying the "Reset" doesn't go far enough, Tories and Reform say it goes too far, so maybe Starmer has got it about right. Time will tell.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 20 May 25 - 10:15 AM

> I thought for sure this thread would be blazing
> away today.

The only ones to be blazing away are the extremists at both, erm, extremes ("Betrayal" vs "Not far enough"). Those of us in between are tentatively relieved that *something* has actually been done which on the face of it looks constructive, and are hoping it doesn't get derailed by the inevitable meeja feeding frenzy in a blizzard of dog-whistles.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 May 25 - 04:22 AM

As this was a copy of an e mail sent to me by the Labour party it is biased, however imo it is better than nothing

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 May 25 - 02:24 AM

the source was an e mail sent by the mp, reason because i used to be a member of the labour party before Corbyn was shasfted.
it is signed by Nick Thomas-Symonds MP
Minister for the Constitution and European Union Relations

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 May 25 - 05:35 PM

It would help if you would post your source for the obvious C&P, Dick.

Yes, Stilly, it is very significant. I am still trying process it but first thoughts are that the fishing rights are insignificant. We have had no fishing fleet for many years but I am no expert on how it will affect those left,

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 May 25 - 04:02 PM

Today is an historic day.

In our election manifesto last year, we promised to deliver an improved and ambitious relationship with our European partners.

And today we have delivered on that promise.

After years of chaos and delay under the Tories, our Labour Government has negotiated and secured a new agreement with the EU that delivers on security, safety and growth.

It means:

A better deal for UK business, with less red tape and improved access for businesses exporting to the EU
Food and drink products flowing more freely between the UK and the EU, helping lower costs and boosting choice on supermarket shelves
Closer co-operation on energy security, without UK business being hit with increased taxes
Better sharing of security intelligence data, to boost our ability to catch dangerous criminals
Less time queuing at airports, with more British holidaymakers able to use more eGates in Europe
Labour has been clear all along, the deal that the Conservatives negotiated with the EU sold us short. Britain always deserved better.

This new deal shows the difference that a Labour government can make. It delivers for working people on jobs, bills and borders. It delivers for UK business on exports, trade and growth. It is our Plan for Change in action.

And it shows that Britain is back on the world stage, securing deals that will grow our economy and put money back in the pockets of British people.

In the last two weeks alone, we’ve delivered trade deals with India and the United States. And now we can add a new and improved deal with the EU. Jobs saved, more growth, wages rising.

While the Tories and Reform continue to bicker over Europe, defending a status quo that they themselves know isn’t working, our Labour Government is providing leadership in the national interest.

We know there is much more to do. But today is an important step in our mission to put more money in the pockets of working people across Britain and build our long-term stability and security.

Thank you,

Nick Thomas-Symonds MP
Minister for the Constitution and European Union Relations

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 25 - 11:44 AM

I thought for sure this thread would be blazing away today. What do you think of this "Reset"?

I've copied the link and am making this a gift article so it should be readable from anywhere. Britain and E.U. Strike Landmark Post-Brexit ‘Reset’ Deal
The agreement includes a new defense partnership and reduced checks on food and drink, removing some trade barriers after months of negotiations.

Sounds like the fishing question has been pushed down the road?

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Aethelric
Date: 17 May 25 - 09:14 AM

Leaders that could make a difference are simply brought down by the establishment.

For example Jeremy Corbyn with lies about anti-semitism and Alex Salmond with lies about sexual harrasment.

Both tory and labour politicians would rather see Nigel Farage in power than a socialist or left winger.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 15 May 25 - 09:48 AM

BWM,

I'm no fan of Reform, and I don't see its leader as some sort of Messiah, certainly not that.

But...well,to be frank, I can't see any leader of any party who would actively make a difference, and that's what I want to see :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 25 - 08:56 AM

Sounds reasonable Fred. Personally, I've seen more than enough of Farridge, Tice, and Jenkyns to convince me, but we all have our own red lines I guess.

My prediction is that it'll all end in tears, but time will tell...

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 15 May 25 - 06:33 AM

I'll reserve judgement until I see what difference (if any) Reform makes in their council gains.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 25 - 06:01 AM

Yep.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 25 - 05:53 AM

Barking mad.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 25 - 05:35 AM

Couldn’t agree more, Dave. And neither does Kemi Badenough appear to have the cojones to speak out against the Reform UK propaganda - both of the main parties failing dismally to show Reformers for what they are.

The Lib-Dems, however, seem to have their finger on Reform UK’s pulse. Time will tell how things will pan out, of course.

In the meantime, the Backwoods’ new Reform UK Mayor, Andrea Jenkyns - a failed Tory ex-MP - has declared war on Green energy - solar panels, wind-farms - and, of all things, air-fryers!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 25 - 03:02 AM

Reform are a populist attention grabbing company. Sadly that is what grabs the headlines so the media feed into it and it becomes a cycle of the company feeding the media who in turn pander to them. It happened in the USA with Trump and Farage thinks he can do it here. I don't think that the majority of people buy into their lies but while they are the darlings of the MSM they are constantly on people's minds.

The other parties, particularly Labour, need to stop trying to outdo them and fight against their propaganda instead but Starmer does not seem to have the backbone.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 25 - 02:16 AM

I think you’re right, Nigel - I believe both Labour and the Tories are bricking-it about Reform.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 13 May 25 - 07:22 PM

Nigel,

Totally agree.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 May 25 - 07:07 PM

To answer the question:
"What are peoples opinions about Starmers speech about immigrants" (sorry, corrections made so as not to re-post it as it was.

I believe that Keir Starmer's comments were made purely because he was feeling pressured by the Reform party.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 May 25 - 06:02 AM

I postal vote so how do I cliam my beer? The idea of real ale casks at the polling office appeelas to me, but the polling officers woudl need to rest the temptation to inbibe.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 09 May 25 - 02:55 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:30 PM

There is, or was, a day boat in Whitby named "Shy Torque"" which is a local colloquialism for a seagull.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 25 - 03:48 PM

There is a boat on the canal near us called "Shy Talk"

The owner has a great sense of humour :-D

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:59 AM

Dave,


What about those who don't drink? Their vote in exchange for a nest box for Bombay shite hawks? :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:46 AM

OK. I have had a change of heart. Instead of compulsory voting let's incentivise it.

Free beer for those who vote ??

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Rain Dog
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:24 AM

I am not happy about low turnouts. I think that it is not a great situation to be in. There does need to be an effort to try to encourage more people to vote. I am not sure that compulsory voting is the solution.

I do think we need to change our voting system. FPTP is fine if you just have 2 parties.

Differences between parties are becoming harder to detect.

It would also help if parties would be more honest about what they will be able to do once elected. None of them seem to want to go down that route. Also voters need to be more realistic about what their parties will be able to achieve in 4 or 5 years.

Reform had an overwhelming win here in the Kent County Council elections. It will be interesting to see how they will manage in the next few years with rising debt and rising costs.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 11:02 AM

BWM,

I don't disagree with trying it. If it didn't work, just reverse it.

My big thing is lying. I want the truth from politicians so that, when I go to the polling station, I know exactly what I'm voting FOR, you know? :)

Fred.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:41 AM

You seem to be making a compelling argument for the introduction of compulsory voting, Fred! ;-)

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:36 AM

Gilly,

Citizens should have all that and more
There's no disagreement from me over that.

No, what I'm saying is that UK politicians have lied and lied, in ALL parties and the public show their distrust/disgust by not voting. Can I understañd their motives? Absolutely :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:10 AM

If it's a chance to improve their community I think more voters will turn out. Why shouldn't the more responsible districts be rewarded. All this should be done without shorting the more poverty-stricken areas that already have it bad enough.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:04 AM

Gilly -


Ah pure, undiluted voter bribery. I wondered when that would show up lol.

No, seriously, it may not bring out the voters mate. I mean, it seems to me that the non voters have had enough. They can't or won't believe politicians anymore.

I could be way wrong but that's how it looks to me.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 10:03 AM

Okay, make it something the community could agree on, like better roads, improved health care facilities, etc. Put the funds in local coffers and let them hash it out.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 May 25 - 09:49 AM

..... a bike lane etc

That would not be an incentive to all. Many motorists would vote to have bike lanes taken away.

DC

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 09:06 AM

How about infrastructure improvements, perhaps a park, sidewalks, a bike lane etc. for voting districts with high turnouts. Of course, in the U.S. this would be a high hill to climb when one of the 2 major parties, the GOP, have voter suppression as one of their main electoral strategies.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 08:28 AM

It would be interesting to hear from our Australian members (Helen, Sandra) how it works, and with what level of success, in Australia. Belgium too, although I don’t know of any Belgian members, or any of the other, fairly numerous, countries with compulsory voting.

https://www.idea.int/data-tools/data/voter-turnout-database/compulsory-voting

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 08:22 AM

Perhaps the answer is to give people some incentive to vote that transcends their indifference towards the available candidates. What that would be I don't know, it seems that having a decent government should be incentive enough, but if we don't do something about voter apathy we'll keep getting sub-human creatures like Trump in power. He won with 77 million votes while over 90 million registered voters stayed away from the polls in '24.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 07:50 AM

I think it goes much deeper than what you guys are debating.

If I talk to people who say they don't vote, trust (or lack of it) is one of the main reasons they give.

Lord alone knows how you restore trust when people don't believe a word you say, but I think politicians somehow have to try to in order to bring out voters en masse.

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:48 AM

And, of course, if it were decided to introduce compulsory voting and it turned out to not work, there’s no reason why the decision couldn’t be reversed and go back to voluntary voting. But without trying it, none of us know whether the outcome would be a success or a failure, and that includes you.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:32 AM

Is uncertainty about the outcome of a project a good reason for not undertaking the project in the first place? If our forebears had thought like you, Europeans would never have discovered America, humans would never have flown, Everest would never have been conquered, man would never have stood on the moon. In comparison with the dangers and uncertainties involved in those projects, making voting compulsory pales into insignificance.

”We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard” - John F Kennedy.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: gillymor
Date: 08 May 25 - 06:19 AM

Dave wrote:
"The punishment for not voting should be having the right to vote removed for a set period."

Is that a punishment or a reward for non-voters? :-)

I do agree though that compulsory voting is worth a try.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 May 25 - 05:50 AM

I agree that some form of proportional representation would be better than 'first past the post' but, the fact is, that's what we have at the moment.

The problem with compulsory voting under this system is that, once you have eliminated those you would definitely not vote for, your vote could come down to random choice of those who remain. As is often seen on TV quiz shows, when people have no idea, they choose the middle option. A candidate's position on the ballot paper could give an unfair advantage or disadvantage.

When voting remains optional, those going to the polling station will at least have given it some thought beforehand.

If the political parties can't persuade people to come out to the polling stations, do they deserve their votes?

DC

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Fred
Date: 08 May 25 - 05:38 AM

Here's what I think, and I have no interest in politics at all.

Yes, non-voters could be made to vote, but would that cause resentment? I rather think it could - and that, come election day, could show itself in the overall voting result.

It may be more productive (politically) to ask non-voters why they don't vote and try to address any issues there.

Just my two penn'orth guys :)

Fred

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 05:44 PM

M with you on PR Dave. In fact, PR and compulsory voting would go a long way to solving the anomalous results which come as a result of our ‘FPTP’ system with low turnouts.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 25 - 05:34 PM

I agree about PR. I also agree with compulsory voting. The punishment for not voting should be having the right to vote removed for a set period. Refusal to vote a second time should result in voting rights removed altogether

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 01:11 PM

I believe our electoral system would be better served if we had compulsory voting, and that there would be a far greater likelihood of results reflecting the true feelings and wishes of the whole electorate, not just a small percentage.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:28 PM

if the information i have provided is incorrect or irrelevant ,please inform me of the cost forcing people to turn up to voteof

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:20 PM

Plans for mandatory voter ID will cost up to £180 million a decade, according to a buried Government impact assessment.

The Cabinet Office’s official estimate for the proposals to make voters show a form of ID in order to vote in elections – contained in its Elections Bill – will cost between £65 million and £180 million over the next 10 years, with a ‘central estimate’ of £120 million.

The Government has come under increasing criticism over the legislation, which was rushed out before a high-profile inquiry into election finance in the UK – effectively guaranteeing that its findings would be ignored.

The bill has its second reading in Parliament this week.

The voter ID costs include £55 million on larger, more detailed polling cards, which will have to be posted in envelopes for the first time; and another £15 million on producing plastic ‘voter cards’ for the estimated 2.1 million Brits who may not have suitable ID, the Mirror and the Electoral Reform Society have revealed.

The newspaper reported that £120 million could buy 10,316 hip operations, 3,986 new ventilators, or 6.6million hours of tutoring in schools. HERE IS THE LINK

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/06/mandatory-voter-id-the-cost-to-taxpayers-and-democracy/

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 25 - 12:10 PM

What sort of punishment do you recommend for people who refuse to vote? if it is not guaranteed to make a difference to results, how do you justify the cost of implementing it.,
You are recommending a decision that is a leap in the dark, that you do not know what the result will be.
What sort of decision making is that, if a government was to adopt that policy for other matters you would have policies and laws made that were not good because decisions had been made regardless of consequences.
You are advocating making a decision when you do not know the results of what you are advocating
IMO that is not a good way to govern.

Subject: RE: UK political topics 2025 1 thread only
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 25 - 11:50 AM

I don’t know the answers to any of that, and neither do you. It’s not my job to know. But at least everyone will have officially set down their wish, even if it’s ‘none of the above’. It may not make a difference to results, but it might. Neither you nor I know which.