Blues vs Rap

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Apr 05 - 12:27 AM

This thread dropped off five years ago--the world is much changed, but Rap, both the music form, and the cultural institution, are still with us, bigger than ever (or should I say, "Evah")--Yall may want to kill me for saying it, but it is way more popular than blues ever was(well, at least the kind of music folks think of as blues like Delta Blues or Chicago Blues), and has hung in there for way longer--Any thoughts as to why?

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: shepherdlass
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 05:11 PM

Cromdubh - I'm with you there. It's all oral tradition, isn't it?

Do you know, I've only just spotted this thread and have just seen the show to prove that the blues and rap mix absolutely fine so long as the person providing the blues element has wide open ears and the person providing the rap isn't one of the cartoon-cut-out gansta rapper bogeymen. Courtney Pine played at the Sage Gateshead recently and touched on so many forms derived from the blues, from straightahead 12 bar to bebop to hip-hop and he brought on one of the rappers from the band Faithless as part of his group - magical result of genuine fusion (not shotgun marriage crossover).   

Alternatively listen to Queen Latifah in Chicago - there's a rapper that could belt out the blues if ever I heard one.

BTW Billy - the practitioners might not recognise the term polyrhythm but that doesn't stop them from using such really effectively. Just like a lot of the blues guys who originated the form probably didn't express their ideas in the language of dominant 7ths and secondary dominants. But they still were perfectly able to play them. You don't have to analyse it to play it or rap it (something called talent seems to take care of that) but it helps to have the lingo if you're trying to make sense of it as a form.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Cromdubh
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 01:30 PM

Certain Rap to me is like folk music. It tells a story, with names, places and actual events which happened in an area.

Different style, same old stories. Love, murder, poverty and bling bling.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,BILLY
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 09:51 PM

I was really enjoying this discussion - then up popped Tchai- bleedin'-kovsky, trying to turn a primitive music (?) form into a subject for academic study. The practitioners of this stuff wouldn't recognise a polyrythym if it bit them on the bum. It's just a device that allows people with little talent to jump onto a stage, make curious gestures with their fingers and launch into a diatribe that satisfies their need to be a victim ( there's a lot of this about these days - it sort of provides an excuse for not trying to improve yourself ). Feminist musicologist indeeed !

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: jpk
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 08:29 PM

all that rap is, is nothing more than perverted ragae opps i spelled it wrong

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 07:44 PM

Hmmmmmmmm? Must not have been hangin' 'round the Catbox when this thread was started 'er I woulda had to throwed in my thoughts...

...ahhhhhhh, rap is a logical extension of blues. Both are folk music created by predominently black people and both talk of the stuggles and hopes of black folks...

One day when I have time I'm gonna write a blues/rap song that incorporates elements of both of them... Yeah, it would be nice if more of these young rappers would just take a journey thru history so that they would have an appreciation of the foundation that rap is built... Yeah, I gotta write a blues/rap song...

Bobert (alias "Sidewalk Bob", bluesman)

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,ryan
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 05:48 PM

u rank

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 12:39 PM

Something else just occurred to me, and that is that(and I've mentioned this before in other threads) "Gangsta Rap" which is a super-commercial "product', appeared rather late in the game--it sells a lot CDs, and mostly to suburban white kids--

I think that "Gangsta Rap" was created by the music industry, because it was a gimmick that sold a lot of product, and, although I did say that it was a vehicle for "venting", I think that when Rap was just something that happened in urban dance clubs, the extreme stuff was only a small element in the mix--unfortunately, now that big money is involved, as in many areas, the lurid, the shocking, and the extreme dominate, because they deliver the big sales--

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Mbo
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 11:01 AM

Hey, I almost forgot about The Fat Boys! Rapping about cheeseburgers--now that's my kind of music! They used to be guests sometimes on the PBS math program "Square One" (a huge favorite of mine), as did Run-DMC. Their raps about math problems were great!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 10:49 AM

IMHO there's rap and there's crap.

Certainly there is a lot of the latter and, because of its content, is exploitative and not really worth listening to.

But there is good rap out there and I for one certainly don't dismiss it as a valid musical form. My 12-year old daughter's class had to get together in several small groups and write and perform a rap song as part of a project. Her group chose to do one on the subject of racism. And very good it was too.

It's not the form but the content that's important and that's the same with almost any musical genre.

My Belgian francs woth for today!

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Chet W.
Date: 06 Feb 00 - 07:16 PM

Sincere thanks to you PI, for I seldom reach accord on this issue in this forum. Good line about future historians. I often wonder what they'll say about the Home Shopping network. A line I often use, partly attributable to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, is that when some other species writes our history, they will probably say that coming out of the trees was a big mistake.

Best wishes to all of good will, Chet

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Tchaikovsky
Date: 05 Feb 00 - 06:01 PM

yeah, I can agree with that Chet....you make a good point. However, do understand that gangster rap will be a very important way for future historians and musicologists to understand intercity politics. Thanks for this enthralling debate.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Chet W.
Date: 05 Feb 00 - 08:04 AM

Then can we do this?: Can we agree that gangsta rap, or more to the point its huge popularity, is a tragedy, even if the others are not? I'm familiar with RunDMC, their tribute to Dr. King a few years ago was good. The gangsta stuff, though, is hugely popular. Just as there are more liquor stores in poor neighborhoods, and more cigarette billboards, there are actually billboards for, as I mentioned above "Thug.com" in the poor neighborhoods here, as well as others of the kind. Why do we object, as thoughtful folks, to hyperpromotion of liquor and tobacco to our most vulnerable citizens, and not to something which socially legitimizes being a violent criminal.

I'm aware of rappers who are trying to do good, to get people to the polls, to speak against drugs. Let's celebrate them. And let's condemn the ones getting rich from the misery of lost lives at least as loudly. If it's art, fine, but it's also a disease, and I am offended by the moron in this thread who seems to imply that any criticism of rap is racism. That should be offensive to us all.

I don't mean to offend. Years of watching kids lose all chance of life has made me intolerant of some things, and gangsta rap is just one of them.

Chet

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Tchaikovsky
Date: 05 Feb 00 - 02:56 AM

Chet W....I agree with you completely but again....you are only talking about ONE type of rap. That is like a person only listening to IRA rebel tunes and dismissing all Irish folk music because they find it to be too violent. You obviously know that there are other types of Irish folk musics...and we can put those IRA tunes in historical context...just as the Wolftones do when they perform them. Of course with rap we are dealing with the present BUT the rap you are listening to is referred to as "gangster rap." There are many more rap artist who have positive themes...try Lauryn Hill, Will Smith, TLC, Salt and Peppa'...and the list goes on and on. I am not dismissing your argument...only trying to tell you there are other great types of rap out there....and yes, they are often polyrhythmic...LOL :)

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,MCSquared
Date: 05 Feb 00 - 12:32 AM

OK, so gangsta rap isn't very positive. Rap as an art-form (perhaps not music but I'm a literature major so I know nothing about music) is interesting, though. Consider the really slick old-school 80s rap, from groups like RUN-DMC, the Fat Boys, Grand Master Flash, and the Sugarhill Gang.

First, their version of 80s pop culture: well, living in the hood they had missed out on the booming economy, the fluorescent clothing, and big hair rock bands, but caught the unemployment and drug use square-on. Then along comes Run-DMC, two young black men, standing on a stage talking-- talking!-- into their microphones, telling the whole world how great they were. And people listened and bought their albums! which contained a bunch of samples. Samples of other people's music, re-interpretted into their own message, much as graffitti re-interpretted the urban landscape that urban kids see every day, but don't own any piece of.

How ironic, that two black kids from NYC could captivate a generation by laying down lyrics based on rather complex rhythms and rhyme schemes. And their messages-- Run-DMC and Grand Master Flash especially-- were very positive for the most part.

And I have to agree with an earlier post-- try rapping sometime. You'll sound pretty silly. Just if you do start rapping, try to stick to a positive message.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Feb 00 - 12:30 AM

As usual Chet, well spoken. I don't always agree with you, and I KNOW how much this subject hurts you, considering those you've tried to help.

You made a good point though about all preachers protecting crooked preachers by their silence. It's the same in every profession though isn't it? Crooked cops, incompetent doctors, drugged atheletes, and on and on and on. Not only does it take guts to tell the truth about crooked powerful colleagues, it's inevitably a way to be completely ostracized by your peers, crooked and straight.

We read it in the papers and see it on the tube EVERY DAY of our lives. Whistle blowers lose EVERYTHING but self-satisfaction...and you can't feed your family on that.

Rick

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Chet W.
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 10:17 PM

Social worker to dead cop's kids "Look at it this way. The artist who told that guy to kill your dad had a polyrythm, just like Max Roach!"

Chet

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Chet W.
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 10:13 PM

Aye, Peter Ilyich, but the "vital difference" that comes when young children are idolizing rapper that perpetuate hate is extremely common. The kids I was teaching in prison had only a small chance of having a life anyway, and when a rich celebrity "gangsta" (for God's sake, how many subcultures have openly identified themselves as criminals?) with pounds of gold puts out poetry about killing cops (and you know this is not an isolated theme) and "fuck their grieving mothers" I think that venting is a micro-event compared to making money, tons of it, off of other people's misery, perpetuating among other things the eternity of victimhood from which there will be no return. Since it's somebody else's fault, it seems normal to sit around their whole lives waiting for somebody else to make it right. So, please, who gets screwed in this deal? Unless you have lived or worked in such an environment, you cannot understand it like someone who has. And, this is another case, like with TV preachers, where I don't understand why the legitimate ones can have nothing to say about the crooks. The rappers who want to give to a community some hope or way out of their misery, let them do it louder, and at the same time say something appropriate about "thug.com". We're talking about lives being lost, literally, while we have these intellectual analytical discussions. Let anyone who has a love of this art hang out in the projects and rejoice in it.

Chet

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 01:38 PM

Well argued, Tchaikovsky. The merits of the real life-blood rap are as strong as any form of musical or even semi-musical performance; I think in general the only exception that can be taken to it, as with any medium, is when it actually promotes hatred. This is not a racist issue at all, it is a human issue. Venom is no more attractive in rap than it is in political speeches or football hero remarks. Doesn't matter whether it is white hatred, black hatred, or the long-standing hatred of the pale chartreuse for the Purple People Eaters. It's jes' ugly! The form, on the other hand, is awe-inspiring.

A

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 01:28 PM

Rap is polyrhythmic, and, as is typical in polythmic music, there are some layers that are simply repeating phrases-- as you might expect,there are also some listeners who only hear those layers, and then claim that it is not music at all, because it is just repetition--

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Tchaikovsky
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 01:07 PM

Wow, I just read through all these messages and I am appalled at the amount of racism and hate within these messages alone. Yes, there is some hate and "bad stuff" in rap music...but honestly I listen to rap all the time and I don't hear it. I'm always hearing very positive uplifting messages that seem to transcend race, colour, sex...etc... One good comment on here was "why are we comparing rap to blues?" There are hate messages in all types of music. I grew up in an Irish household listening to recordings and singing IRA rebel tunes....you don't see me bombing anything. Of course, there is a vital difference if there are children idolizing young rap musicians who are perpetuating hate messages..whether they be in rap, folk music, rock...or any genre. We should make it more of an issue to educate "our children"(in the universal sense) about vilonce, drugs, etc.... AND THEN GETTING TO MY POINT....this is no reason to dismiss a whole genre of music. I'm a feminist musicologist who has specialized in 19th century symphonic music but I have done some anaylsis of rap. I find rap to be very complex....has anyone tried to rap??? It is not an easy thing to do....and many of these artists do it extemperaneously!! Without pontificating....I find that rap allows the listener to take in a valid message that is often quite complexly rhymed and then there is usually some sort of one line melody or chorus which re-empasizes their point. It gives a voice to many communities who wouldn't normally get to express their opinions. Perhaps, not everyone can appreciate rap however it is no reason to dismiss a genre...AND YES...there is a very obvious correlation between blues and rap....and it continues on....anyone here like Acid Jazz?? It is a wonderful mix of hip hop, jazz, rap...etc... Anyone who finds that what I have to say is even remotely interesting should check out works by the scholar bell hooks. She has some wonderful things to say about black culture and aesthetics. Thanks for reading this. Matthew Adams

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:46 PM

I can only observe that the world has not changed much in the 103 years since these noble sentiments were enshrined in couplets--

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:10 PM

A legacy of anger is not healed
By adding anger to the commonweal
Good minds bring good again to life enow
That only springs within the here, the now.
Would only that the pain behind us die
That "they" and "then" transforms to "Now" and "I"

Cutty Bushmiller Adams, 1897

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:57 AM

Sorry to dredge this thread up again--but--There is a lot of anger in "Rap",and many people are not comfortable with that anger. The anger manifests itself in a lot of ways, including the posturing of violence that is the hallmark feature in "gangsta rap"--

The thing is that Rap merely vents the anger--kids memorize songs, albums, etc because the lyrics speak to their own life experience, they give voice to feelings that already exist--if an honest assessment were made, it is more likely that, by giving vent to this anger,the "Gangsta Rap" fantasy actually gives kids an alternative to acting out the anger in real life--

My family have been involved in the Civil Rights movement for several generations, and I can do a pretty convincing and noble speech on the virtues of non-violence and the the committment of all responsible Blacks to the peaceful achievement of racial justice--

However, from my own experience, I know that all Blacks, from MLK on down, carry with them bitterness, hurt, and anger--and that, from time to time, these feelings are vented--

That is a legacy of racism, segregation, and slavery that we all have to live with, like it or not.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Mbo
Date: 28 Jan 00 - 05:49 PM

Some very misguided people in Northern Ireland once boycotted an ELO concert, because they claimed it was "Devil Music." Bizarre, bizarre. ELO was the most harmless and light-hearted bands. It's like calling Charlotte Church a demon. I think that you can not like or not be interested in a kind of music, but please don't hate it. Hate not something we need more of.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jan 00 - 05:31 PM

Sorry that should have read 'The Devil's Music'.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Caitrin
Date: 28 Jan 00 - 04:36 PM

I don't think that was the point M was trying to make. Dr. King did not try to "cope" with the way things were...he worked for change. However, you're right...he didn't use assault rifles, nor should he have.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jan 00 - 02:51 PM

Without passing judgement on the very strong anti 'Rap' views I can't help be reminded of the strong views expressed in the recent past about 'The Devis Music' or at least those on Rock and Roll.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Chet W.
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 07:43 PM

Good line A. Caitrin, I certainly would have missed that message in Badu's songs myself if I hadn't done some research on that gang when some of my students were being recruited in our facility, mostly by a social worker, believe it or not. Interestingly, I was called a racist by people who knew better when I studied the situation and made a report to the principal about it. At the time I didn't know he was an idiot. I listen to all kinds of music in languages I don't even understand, so they could be singing about anything and I wouldn't know. I just heard a band on NPR yesterday that writes songs in language unknown even to them. Sounded pretty cool, though. It's a complicated issue, but I've seen the damage myself and I'm not really interested in the details anymore. A disease is a disease, even if it has feelings.

Chet

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Caitrin
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 06:20 PM

Sorry, Chet. I didn't realize Erykah Badu supported that group. All I know of her is the one of her two albums I own. I can honestly say that she does not glorify violence in her music, though.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 06:18 PM

Chet! Put it back where you got it!

A.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Chet W.
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 06:15 PM

So Dr. M.L. King, who was accomplishing so much with non-violence, should instead have been passing out assault rifles? I get it now.

Chet

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 05:43 PM

Ah, McGrath, yer right. I just can't STAND intolerance of any kind! :>)

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: M
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 05:37 PM

Y'all ever think about the progression here? The Blues, lamenting being put down, being passed by, being denied...whatever. Then, 40, 50, 60, maybe even 70 years later, Rap says, Shit, we are FED UP WITH being put down, being passed by, being denied! There's a great stanza in "Fishin' 4 Religion," (by Arrested Development) that sums up some of it:

The pastor says pray to see the pearly gates so white...

The lady prays and prays and prays..and prays...

There's nothin' wrong with prayin,'

It's what she's ASKIN.'

She shoulda been prayin' to change her woes,

But pastor said pray to cope with those.

The word COPE and the word CHANGE are completely opposite, not the same.

('scuse the ommissions.) You get the idea. If you HATE Rap, then it seems that that's all you can contribute to this thread--your hate. Not a very useful contribution.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Chet W.
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 04:10 PM

I've talked and written about this til I can't anymore. I do have to say that calling someone a racist for their opinions about rap is outrageous and awfully naive. Don't forget that rap, besides being an artistic depiction of urban and other violence, to the point of atrocity, also has an active role in justifying same to young impressionable minds. I've seen it happen way too much when I was teaching in juvenile prison. Kids who couldn't write their names could recite whole rap albums (the gangsta kind) and there's no way around the obvious, that it made their personal crimes seem more "normal". By the way, Erykah Badu, whose songs seem relatively benign, has put out some stuff in support of the 5-Percenters, a drug gang that poses as a religion and recruits mostly young people in prison to go retail drugs for them when they get out, all the while making them think they are part of something ancient and noble. So they end up in prison again, and another one takes their place. My last word (I promise) is that in all facets of culture (music, religions, politics) if the truly fairminded and positive people are not willing to speak out about the nasty ones (lots of TV preachers come to mind), then they taint us all. Names have to be named, and that's what makes people too uncomfortable to speak.

Chet

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 03:40 PM

And how is what Amos just said allthat different from the kinds of attitudes expressed in Cop Killer? These brutal people (gangstas, or cops) brought violence on themselves - they were asking for it, it's Karma?

As someone back up the thread said, there's a lot off hate and violence coming out from people denouncing hate and violence in rap. Violence breeds violence, hate breeds hate. It doesn't help to stop the hate by just responding to it with hate.

In places like Ireland and Palestine they talk about "the politics of the last atrocity" - meaning every time someone on your side drops or plants a bomb or shoots someone, it's explained/justified by going back to the last time teh other side did something just as bad. But you don't go back to the atrocity before that by your side and the one before by their side, and the one...

There comes a point when you have to stop recycling the hate. If it's true for rap singers, and it is, it's just as true for people who don't like what they sing. Doesn't mean you have to learn to like it, doesn't mean yiou can't say why you don't like it. Does mean you don't let yourself say things you should be ashamed to say.

As for Gino Luparis, where I live if Juventus was playing Manchester United we'd probably be cheering for Juventus. It was Arsenal, we'd definitely be cheering for Juventus. And if it was Arsenal playing Manchester United? Cheering for United - reluctantly.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 02:50 PM

If someone--regardless of gender, race, religion, income level or handedness--who promotes violence inherits violence, why is it very few people are surprised? Inheriting the wind is a known risk you take according to all the wisdom on the subject. So seeing karma work has a certain balance to it; that does not mean anyone should enjoy watching bad karma, but it does have a certain internal aesthetic; a lot more so that something excruciating like the Colorado school massacre.

A.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 02:39 PM

Michael,

I didn't actually express any opionion on Rap music--just to clarify, I didn't post because I wanted argue any kind of point about any kind of music--

My reaction was entirely to the idea that someone would express pleasure at the brutal murder of another human being, and only because they didn't happen to like the music that they entertainer performed--

As a performer and an entertainer, in a community that includes many performers and entertainers, I would have thought that you would have had a little more feeling for fellow performers--

As to what you like or don't like, that is strictly up to you, and as far as I am concerned, there is no need for us to either agree or disagree--

I do appreciate your comments, and they do help me to understand that your original remark was more figurative than it seemed--

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 02:27 PM

Blues dead??? Like, man, not!! Like, so totally NOT!!
As if!! I mean, that is so unTRUE!!! Totally!!

Amosina

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 02:17 PM

Your post prompted this Gino Lupari story. I was in the big city for a day and on the way home, went to see him playing at the Swan, in Stockwell on a Wednesday night. All night he had one eye on the TV as Manchester United where playing Juventus. The main part of the audience, which was not vast was composed of a party of Italians, who I suspect had come in to see this 'tenor' from their own country perform, or should that be 'tonner'? They were a little confused at the type of music that was being played but stayed, I think mainly to watch Juventus. The look on their faces when Man Utd scored twice, won the game and their fellow countryman, Gino punched the air did a little jig of joy, was a delight. It reminded me of the 'hippos' dancing in tutus, in Fantasia.

Is the fact that blues is now accepted, as is jazz and rock and roll, by all cultures, the reason why it is not as popular as rap, with the younger element of black culture? Is it the same in places like Chicago? Is the blues now dead?

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: MK
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 02:05 PM

Well I respect your opinion M.Ted, and I did mention this particular subject (RAP) is a particular sore spot with me, at the onset of my message.

Perhaps the remark you quoted, was a bit extreme or should not have been expressed in print (and perhaps a poor analogy to express how much I truly loathe this music?)...but I got carried away in the passion of the moment writing my comments. Usually I'm much more subdued.

...But, I'll bet there are many other Mucatter's who agree with me as far as my passionate aversion to RAP, who can't be bothered posting, or who would do so anonymously. In any event, to each his own...and you and I can agree to disagree.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 01:16 PM

I always surprised at the venom that some people let out when they talk about music that they don't like, but even fairly reasonable people do get carried in the heat of discussion,and I try to remember that--I think this comment from Michael K goes well beyond the pale for me:

"I must confess that I crack a devious little smile on my face, whenever I hear that a Rapper has been blown away..."

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 11:43 AM

Hello all, I think rap is doing the job it was after.. It's not there to make anyone comfortable and I for one will pass it by very quickly but everytime I hear it I thank god I don't live in the neighberhood where those stories come from.They sure arent asking my permition to talk about whats up with them.. We can feel safe and conected with our relationships with blues for a ton off reasons."I feel bad" "I'm so low" We as an adience we are SAFE<><<><> We are not sopossed to feel anything like beening safe when we hear rap..They are comming, thats the message..It's time to fix something or get hurt!! Blues has taught me so much about getting on with stuff in a bad situation.It's personaly helped me .Rap tells me it"s time to do something before it's to late..Thats not alot of fun... My best regards to all here Guy Wolff

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 10:47 AM

Well, well...by reporting (in a non-biased way) what the local "non-gangsta" Rap Station plays in a given 90 minute segment of the day, I've apparently convinced someone that I'm a racist.

Being a proud, card-carrying member of the Cherokee Nation (BTW, we're the only US minority who have to carry documentation to prove who and what we are!), I'd like to point out that we've always inter-married w/ both whites and blacks (and my cousin Jimmy-Don's wife is Hawaiian, if that's relevent!), and therefore I'd like to respectfully point out that (A) I'm NOT a racist, and (B) anyone who thinks I am a racist is cordially invited to go commit a biologically unlikely act upon themselves.

Still, just to make fair, I went over to my 89 y.o. great-aunt Jesse's house to check with her (I go by at least every other day to see if she needs anything)...see, she's about as dark-complected as it's possible to be...likely because her grand-dad was a former slave... so that would likely qualify her in this matter...she suggested the scotsman go back to "servicing" his sheep.

I did explain to her that that would be a "racist" thing to say...She was quite amused by the thought, but asked me to point out to all concerned that scotsmen/women were not a race, but a condition. Make of that what ya will.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Caitrin
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 10:43 AM

The black kids I know that have a real appreciation for music do listen to the blues, as do the white kids. The blues aren't really a "pop" form anymore for any race.

And I don't think the white audience is always a step behind...just generally in a different step. The people who are progressive and doing something new generally aren't popular at first. Ani diFranco, Donna the Buffalo, They Might Be Giants, and Moxy Fruvous are all making new kinds of music...it's just that most people haven't noticed yet.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Easy Rider
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 10:29 AM

I make no excuses for modern Rap in the following. I hate the stuff!

We should remember, though, that "Rap" is not a new phenomenon. It goes way back. There is a Yazoo CD, titled "The Roots of Rap", that you should all listen to. It consists of recordings of "Rap" songs from the 1920s. Bob Dylan wrote a couple of "Rap" songs too. "Standing on the pavement, thinking 'bout the guv'nment. Don't think, kid. It's something you did...". Violence has always been part of our culture, and it has always been expressed in our music. The difference is only in the details.

It has been said that Rap is the Blues of today's urban youth, just the way Country Blues was the music of the rural youth of the 1920s and 30s. The question is one, I think, of relevance. The Blues, a Black music genre, has not been popular with Black people for the last 60 years. It's us old White Folkies who are its audience now. Blacks moved on to Jazz, Electric Blues (Chicago), R&B, Motown, ... Rap, long ago. The White audience has always been a step behind.

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: GUEST,Mbo
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 10:22 AM

Who exactly are these Seven Nations fellows? I've never heard of them..except from you, of course. And does their name have any connection the Native America? From your descriptions, they sound a bit like Wolfstone, who I love! Let them sing!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Caitrin
Date: 27 Jan 00 - 09:59 AM

Actually, Mbo, Seven Nations did the rap version. I have to admit to having never heard the original version. *ducks to avoid flying objects aimed at her head* : )

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Mbo
Date: 26 Jan 00 - 11:44 PM

Oooh, forgot to mention Wyclef Jean's "Gone Till November" is a classic! I think even folkies would like it. Hey, he plays a classical guitar in the video--alright with me! And a neat string section to boot! Caitrin, you mean Joe Dolan made a Rap version of "Trip To Jerusalem"? I love that song: "Danced throught the streets of Elat town, sang Sean South of Garryowen." Classic! I've been thinkin' of doing a rap version of "The Spree." It really works! Try it!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Blues vs Rap
From: Mbo
Date: 26 Jan 00 - 11:40 PM

Uh-oh...the famous debate! McGrath, I love "Wrap It Up"! That song absolutely rules! And Gino...Italian & Irish--what could be better? Personally, I'm not much into rap. I don't know why. Some rap is good, like "Rapper's Paradise" mentioned above is a classic, thought I heard it only twice. Will Smith's stuff is pretty funny--he's got a positive take of rap--"For ladies always pull out chairs, go easy on the swears" that's more like it. I'm going to duck flying projectiles now, but I liked the song "Wild Wild West." I also kinda liked "Hard Knock Life" by Jay-Z. The lyrics were pretty much obscenity-laden, but the bouncy beat and sampling of the song from "Annie" made it fun. I once heard a very cool thing on the radio back during Hurricane Floyd. A Rap love song from the early eighties! Folks need to bring that stuff back!

--Mbo