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Our Obsession With Flash
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Subject: Our Obsession With Flash From: Rick Fielding Date: 31 Jan 00 - 02:39 AM Something came to mind while reading the "best musician..." thread, and I hope there might be some feedback. Oh, and by the way, Heather made me contribute a dollar to the profanity kitty, for swearing in that one. Being Glaswegian, she's no prude..she's just found a great way to make money off me! A few years ago, I was doing a guitar workshop at a festival, and had just played something in Maybelle Carter's style. (probably Miner's Blues) Someone yelled out from the audience. "Can you play something hard? Like Doc Watson"? Made me sad to think that perhaps quite a few folk just could not relate at all to the sheer genius of Maybelle and what she created, but could instantly click in to something with a ton of notes played at top speed. I was like that kid myself when I first heard Doc and was probably far more impressed with "flash" when it came to playing than the subtler approach that Maybelle used. Funny thing though, after thirty years, I've probably heard a hundred guitarists who can play super-fast(and well) but maybe ten (or less) who could do smoothly what she did. Same with banjo. I'm amazed at some of the things that Bela Fleck or Tony Trishka can do, but this weekend on a trip to Buffalo (great folk venue there by the way) I listened to a couple of hours of the Stanley Brothers with Ralph's glorious repetitive simplistic and PERFECT banjo playing. That's why I'll always love TRADITIONAL folk music above all else. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Bugsy Date: 31 Jan 00 - 02:54 AM Oh - THAT kind of flash. I thought you must've seen me behind the bike sheds! Cheers bugsy |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Joe Offer Date: 31 Jan 00 - 02:56 AM Well, Rick, I have to say that BSeed's banjo playing suits me just fine. Very simple and unpretentious. Don't know if I've ever heard a banjo sound so sweet. Sometimes, soft, slow, and thoughtful is best. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Brendy Date: 31 Jan 00 - 03:40 AM You have a point there Rick. But you've been at the guitar for quite a number of years now, I would expect, and I think as we get "older" the 'flash' doesn't have the same importance as 'soul'. 'Flash' is fine, I think....if that is what the song calls for, but what is that famous one that Stefan Grossman came out with once? He, the story goes, went up to some budding young guitarist once who was trying to impress the assembled glitterati, and blew him a kiss...several times during his 'performance' After finishing the young aspirant asked him what the kiss blowing was all about. "Keep It Simple, Stupid" was the reply. I think that quite a lot of guitar players forget, or maybe are at a stage in their musical development where they haven't learned yet that the silences in between the notes are just as, if not more, important than the actual notes themselves. B. |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Little Neophyte Date: 31 Jan 00 - 08:11 AM I believe to play smooth and simplistic it takes hard work and experience. Because I am developing my skills, I tend to want to play as fast as I can or as complex as I can. I would think simple and unpretentious comes after obtaining a great deal of knowledge and expertise. It is one thing to 'Keep it Simple, Stupid'. It is another thing to have the choice to play hard with flash but you choose not to. BB |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: GUEST,Neil Lowe Date: 31 Jan 00 - 08:15 AM ditto......sometimes what you don't play is just as important as what you do...the "pauses" between the notes distinguish an eloquent and tasteful passage from one chock full of razzle-dazzle. Sure, playing a billion notes within the span of a second has its place at times, but the emotive and expressive phrases seem to make more of a lasting impression. The late Duane Allman and Robert Cray come to mind in the blues genre....there's others in other genres that would exemplify elegant playing as well...someone in another thread just recently mentioned George Harrison's guitar playing as being underrated - evident after the melodic work he did on Abbey Road (and elsewhere) having withstood the test of time. Neil Lowe |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Terry Allan Hall Date: 31 Jan 00 - 08:41 AM On the other hand, a little "flash" will keep you working...audiences expect (and deserve) a little bit of "razzmatazz" for their entertainment dollars, so I always make a point of doing 1-2 "flashy tunes" per set. But only 1-2...Moderation in all things, I reckon... |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: JedMarum Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:29 AM It takes an audience some time, (maybe experience) to recognize the beauty of some of the more subtle musicianship, such as Maybelle Carter ... and even when they understand and appreciate its beauty in during a performance, they still may not know how to address it when they walk away from the concert hall. That is they understand that what they heard Maybells play was beautiful but they understand that the musicianship talk is focused on speed, flash, etc ... and that is the language they have for expression. I'll bet Maybelle wouldn;t have cared - as long as her audience 'felt' what she was trying to deliver through her instrument.
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: JedMarum Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:34 AM wow - re-reading my last post I am once again reminded of my typographically challenged posting skills. Sorry for all the errors, I hope the message gets through! |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: GUEST,emily rain Date: 31 Jan 00 - 05:34 PM having discovered that no performer makes me happier than brian bowers, i'm just learning to apply this new minimalist concept to both my singing and my choice of repertiore. it's already paying off. my second-most-requested song of late has been one that is A) too low in my vocal range for me to ornament or even sing it with much strength, B) accompanied instrumentally by one of the very first tunes i learned in flatpick lessons, and C) almost completely lacking in poetic pretension. it may not have been much of a challenge to learn, but the audience likes it way better than any of my funky filigreed songs in foreign languages and modes... i guess anything that's really comfortable for me to sing is naturally going to be easy for them to listen to.
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Jan 00 - 06:02 PM Playing an instrument is like riding a bicycle. Once you've mastered the basics, going fast is just a question of pedalling, and steering. Going slower it's a lot harder keeping your balance. And the slower you go, the harder it gets to avoid falling power. But it's fun freewheeling downhill - "look no hands". And doesn't it just look impressive when you're showing off?. |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Jan 00 - 06:04 PM "Falling power" indeed. "Falling over" is what I meant. Spotted it as I pushed the button. I'll never learn. |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Little Neophyte Date: 31 Jan 00 - 06:10 PM McGrath, I think that was a Freudian slip. Very good analogy though. As for me, I still have my training wheels on. BB |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: katlaughing Date: 31 Jan 00 - 06:20 PM Liamdevjed, You brought tears to my eyes. Well put, thank you. I guess there's hope for me; never have enjoyed playing the really flashy, even when classical. Love the slower, to me, more meaningful passages. Kevin, that is a great analogy, it does take much more control to play something slow and well, than to zip through a bunch of flash. BTW, Rick, "flash" has another term amongst those who choose inky adornment.*BG* katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: GUEST,LEJ Date: 31 Jan 00 - 06:40 PM "inky adornment"? Are you a Tattooed Lady, Katlaf? |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: lamarca Date: 31 Jan 00 - 07:28 PM I'm not a big fan of hard-core bluegrass, since it seems particularly prone to the "fast and flashy is everything" syndrome in music. One of my favorite guitarists is Norman Blake, though. It seems that on his albums in recent years, he has been slowing down and doing wonderful, soulful versions of oldtime songs (listen to "Chattanooga Sugar Baby", for instance). I don't think it's because he CAN'T still play fast - I think that it shows he's matured as a musician and appreciates that he doesn't need to. Or as an old quote whose attribution has disappeared into my memory morass would have it: "I shore wish I could play all them notes - and then not do it..." |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: kendall Date: 31 Jan 00 - 07:40 PM I believe it was Frank Proffit who said that |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: bbelle Date: 31 Jan 00 - 09:46 PM lamarca ... I wholeheartedly agree with you about Norman Blake. I've never much care for flatpicking until my cousin the flatpicker turned me on to Norman Blake. BTW ... all you Norman Blake fans ... he's taken up with a woman from Monticello, Florida (where my father lives), which is about 30 miles north of Tallahassee. Everytime I visit my dad's, I check around for Norman ... moonchild |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Caitrin Date: 31 Jan 00 - 10:02 PM If's Bonnie's on training wheels, then I'm riding a tricycle! : ) I think people tend to get obsessed with flashiness just because it's flashy. It's just like birds going after little sparkly things...they don't really know what it is, but it's pretty. It takes listening to a lot of music and playing a lot to really appreciate musicianship that goes beyond mere flashiness. |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Troll Date: 31 Jan 00 - 10:12 PM Caitrin. Amen to that. But really listening takes work and commitment and too few people are willing to take the trouble. So we get all flash and little content. troll |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Rick Fielding Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:21 PM Don't know who ya are troll, but I've gotta agree with you on that. Sadly, that makes us old fogeys I'm afraid. My trouble is that as far as the music I love, I've been an old fogey since the age of 18. 'Bout everything else I'm as up to date as possible. Three musicians who have been named who can show off but are ABSOLUTELY respectful of tradition (and what fits a song) are Norman Blake, Doc, and Bryan Bowers. Truth is though that sometimes earning a living means "puttin' on a show" for the folks who aren't as deeply involved in the music as the performer is. For example, Howlin' Wolf would never have been caught dead playing the fool for a black audience, but he sure did for white crowds (where he, of course made 3 times the money) 'Tis the way of the world. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Big Mick Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:40 PM I love this thread. For me it is the simple fact that I came to performing later in life, and I never had the time to devote to mastery of the "flashy" stuff. My career of labor organizing/community agitating kept me so engaged that I didn't devote the time to the instrument that I should have. I regret that now. But it did cause me to learn how to interpret a song and help people to feel the message and emotion that it brings out. Rick's post above which relates to the famous as opposed to the really good among the rest really rings true for me. My main genre is Irish music. While I certainly have respect for the names everyone knows, and enjoy there music, it is among the lesser known performers that I have been most influenced. The lyrics of Brendan Nolan, the piping of Pat Broaders, the arrangements of Broaders and Moore as well as Detroit's Blackthorn, and I could name dozens of others. It is in their work that I find inspiration. And our own Rick Fielding's CD's have given me new songs and influenced my style in a profound way. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: harpgirl Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:48 PM ah moon...I heard that's old news...and she has moved on...she lives in Wacissa anyway,moon... |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Brendy Date: 31 Jan 00 - 11:54 PM Of course, 'flash' and 'sensitivity' can mix, and mix very well. Especially in the realms of Irish Trad. One only has to look, listen, feel the likes of Arty, and Paul. The foundations (dare I say guidelines) that they, among others, laid down in the '70's certainly paved the way for an altogether more thoughtful approach to the music, without comprimising it's power. I am reminded of Paul's version of 'Arthur McBride', and Arty's 'Carolan's Draught'. Also worth mentioning here is Dick Gaughan's 'Coppers and Brass'. B. |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Mbo Date: 01 Feb 00 - 12:03 AM Ha ha! There's not flash in me! My folks tell me I look grumpy and surly when I play. I say "I'm concentrating!" Hey, if grumpy looks when playing are good enough for Anne-Sophie Mutter, they're good enough for me! But I would like to smile at least half as much as Steve Miller, though! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Feb 00 - 12:07 AM Actually "flash" really IS in the eye (or ear) of the beholder isn't it? It's impossible to really know whether a performer has heart and soul or just a surface approach. Two minutes of talking (and listening to them) should do the trick though. Yeah Mick, I love Brendan Nolan's work. Haven't seen him in about 6 years. He's smart. Left our Canadian climes for the sunny south. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Charlie Baum Date: 01 Feb 00 - 12:52 AM More examples: (1) Someone like Natalie McMaster can play fast and loud and step dance at the same time--but she can start by playing a slow and heartfelt air that will move you to tears. And she is skilled enough that she can retain that soulfulness when she speeds up and plays a strathspey. And when it grows out of that set-up, the "flash" that eventually emerges is all the more wonderful because of what it's been set off against. (2) I spent a long time searching for (and eventually acquiring) a wonderful out-of-print version of Doc Watson taking it slow and soulful on an a cappella rendition of "St. James Hospital." While Doc can be a speedy and accurate flashy flatpicker, he can also sing a slow soulful song with a rich baritone, and impress me much more with his emotional depth than with his speed skills. (3) At the FSGW Minifest (see other threads), I just did a workshop with Lisa Null and Ed Trickett and Joe Hickerson called "The Soul of a Song"--about songs that run deep, and are designed to move you rather than merely to entertain. We realized that it takes a great deal of skill to maintain something at an adagio rather than an allegro (We got through 8 songs in 50 minutes)--perhaps different techniques are used than when you pull off something fast. But to infuse depth, you've got to make quiet spaces to give the music room to breathe and live. --Charlie Baum |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: JedMarum Date: 01 Feb 00 - 01:09 AM great thread. good thoughts. sorry I missed your FSGW workshop Charlie, sounds like a good one! |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: kendall Date: 01 Feb 00 - 10:16 AM The problem with flash isd that it doesn't sustain. For me, at least, within a few minutes, it sounds like a popsicle stick in a bicycle wheel (to quote Joan) |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 Feb 00 - 12:07 PM Yeah, Charlie. I read two reviews a few years ago in a respected folk publication. One completely dismissed Joe Hickerson as "someone you might want to learn a song from...but not the way HE does it". What total crap! I play a damned sight better than that reviewer, and I can tell you that Joe is an exceptionally original guitarist. His accompaniments are full of little unexpected surprises. He's a great instrumentalist to listen to and learn from. They also failed to mention in a Peggy Seeger review, the amazing skill and imagination that's part of all her guitar and banjo accompaniments. Critics, Hah! Rick |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 01 Feb 00 - 03:25 PM I agree that much as I admire virtuoso playing of, say, Art Tatum, I also relish, say, the understatement of Count Basie who learned to pare down his contributions to the minimum . I cherish memories of a tv concert with Oscar Peterson and Basie where they played in each other's style just to show Bill could be "flash" with the best of 'em (but didn't need to) and Oscar could restrain himself sometimes! And listen to what Louis Armstrong could do with a few notes behind Bessie Smith, or Bix Beiderbecke... OK it's not folk but you all know more about folk performers than I do. RtS |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: MK Date: 04 Feb 00 - 10:52 PM Yes, but do not mistake Flash for.......Energy and Enthusiasm. |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: GUEST,Wesley S Date: 18 Mar 05 - 07:57 PM I thought it might be time to revive this thread and see if we had anything else to add to it. I know that as hard as I try to be flashy in rehearsal that when the performance time comes I'm very satisfied to just keep it simple. |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Big Al Whittle Date: 18 Mar 05 - 08:42 PM Dum ching! Dum ching! I also do waltz time Dum ching ching! Dum ching ching! |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 18 Mar 05 - 09:40 PM Flash is all very nice - but the whole point of it is that it SHOULD LOOK like it is all very offhand - telling everybody beforehand that you are going to do something Flash will most likely be taken as part of a Comic Routine. The word to remember is 'Elegant' - Apparent simplicity on the surface which hides all the hard work beneath. Think of the Swan - an elegant looking creature, but below the surface of the water, those tiny little feet are going like the clappers - paddling as hard as they can! |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: Leadfingers Date: 18 Mar 05 - 09:51 PM I know a couple of VERY good musicians who have 'Been There and Done It' so much , that when they are on their own they tend to improvise round the tunes , which CAN sound 'flash' to the basic Folkie . As a guy who started in Jazz , I can see what they are doing , but friends of mine just think 'Flash', NOT Damn Fine Musician ! A Classic example is Tom McConville - On his own he gets VERY esoteric , but catch him duetting with Pauline Cato and Oh What Beautiful fiddle ! |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 18 Mar 05 - 10:04 PM Punk & dub reggae lesson no. 1 just because some fools are fast accurate over-educated over-proficient technicaly superior musicians.. dont stop them being ego wanking knobheads with nothing to say worth communicating in public to discerning audiences.. they should be slapped .. not admired.. pass the cider please.. |
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Subject: RE: Our Obsession With Flash From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 18 Mar 05 - 10:14 PM hear! hear! |
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