BS: What do you if you cant sing?

Subject: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:28 AM

I have a friend who goes to singarounds and would like to be able to join in when her turn comes. She cannot hold a tune and does not want to sing, she enjoys listening. Any ideas for monologues, poems or anything. I have given her a couple of monologues, but as I do them myself and havn't got that many in the repertoire....I thought you may be able to help.
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:38 AM

That should have read "what do you do if you cant sing?"
my brain types faster than my fingers and I read what I expect to see - it's a winning combination
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:41 AM

Follow my example: come on last when the host has had enough and wants everyone to run for their cars!
RtS
(emptying tavernas in Kalymnos and Ikaria this year)
Seriously (seriously, Roger??),monologues mnight be a good idea, some songs recently in the FORUM: the Lime Jello Salad song; I want a Hippopotamus for Christmas , I've mentioned on another thread, lend themselves to delivery as a poem/monologue (IMNSHO).

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: MMario
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:43 AM

What about readings of some of Kiplings stuff, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:45 AM

I beautiful poem, well rendered, can hush the mouths of a roomful of people. I'm fond of Blake's Prayer for My Daughter, personally. Or "Tiger, Tiger...".

And, if she can do three chords, she can perform talking blues without having to sing.

A

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:47 AM

I'm going to have a good look through the DT there are some good parodies. The spoonerism fairy tales are another option. Is there any Kipling available on the web? thanks
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:47 AM

There's a great poem by Blake called "Prologue Intended For A Dramatic Production Of King Edward VI" (not sure about that number.) It's a very powerful poem, and one of my favorites.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Allan C.
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:48 AM

She would find a wealth of storytelling, brags, folktales, etc. here in one of E. A. Botkin's many collections. Or she could check her local library for similar sources. Such things, I am told, are well received in some circles but, might be shunned in others. Test the waters.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:52 AM

Folk tales, tall tales, fairy tales, short poems, politically correct or relevant monologues (a la John McCutcheon), stuff from "Foxfire", song/tale histories,obscure tidbit trivia from the Farmer's Almanac, stories about tipples and other sly instrument names, I think I'll stop now.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Allan C.
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:53 AM

That should be B. A. Botkin - a collector and editor of well over a dozen volumes of American folklore.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:07 PM

Have her learn a few "Jack Tales." After a few nights of those, everybody will be begging her to sing badly, it won't matter...just NO MORE JACK TALES!!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:20 PM

...you could become a rock star...

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:27 PM

There is also an incredible wealth of Cowboy Poetry and Australian Bush Poetry sites on the Web, guaranteed to make you cry or fall on the floor with laughter.

I will gladly offer my Beeline Talking Blues song? to her, a parody of "How to Become an All American Boy", although it could be a little too obscure for anyones purpose.*BG*

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Midchuck
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:29 PM

She could do the recitation that starts, "'Twas the night of the King's castration, the night of the last Royal Ball...."

Re Kipling on the web: Let's try another blue clicky thing:try this

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:30 PM

Read the Mbo Malt Shop thread aloud...it'll never stop and they'll laugh 'til they weep.

A

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:35 PM

I'll recomend the poems of Seamus Heaney for the pub setting....

But I also recomend she practice singing at home... in the shower, in the car... everywhere... Singing is just sustained talking so unless she has a medical problem, she can inprove her singing... it may take tonnes of work, but it'll be rewarding I'm sure...

Everybody CAN sing, some people shouldn't!! LOL!!

Best Of Luck To Her Eh!

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 12:43 PM

I have heard of a lot of strange things being done on the web by a lot of strange people; but I never thought anyone would try kipling on the web! Isn't that like trying to download pizza?

A

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 02:20 PM

Try "Ye Mariners All" voice is not so important with shanties either...many can be sung or recited roughly! without sounding out of place. Yours,Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 04:10 PM

Almost any of the old cowboy songs can be recited; some of the longer ones which are fairly well-known are Little Joe the Wrangler; When the Work's All Done this Fall; Bily Venero/Vanero.

Mbo read a couple of ones from Cowpie the other night on HearMe which were really good: Cowboy Logic and This Cowboy's Hat. You can access Cowpie through the links on the menu bar up top.

Why doesn't she try her hand at writing some of her own? She might surprise herself and it can be a lot of fun.

All the best,

katlaughing

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 04:56 PM

Some thoughts on not being able to sing:

I used to think I couldn't sing. I'd try to sing out of a book; I tried hymnals, sacred harp, etc. When I tried to sing the bass part, I couldn't get the low notes. When I tried to sing the tenor part, I couldn't get the high notes. After years of frustration, I found out there's a special name for what I am: I'm a baritone! I fall through the cracks of most written music (you could take that almost literally). All I have to do is transpose to a key that's comfortable to me, and voila! I can sing after all! Maybe if I had studied music theory, or if I had ever asked anyone for help, I could have figured this out much sooner, but I didn't.

Keep in mind William Blake's aphorism: "Exuberance is beauty." (I used to have that taped to my guitar.)

Now, here are a few ideas for people who'd rather do readings or recitations. It helps if you have a flair for accents. I recommend trying it even if you think you're not very good. You'll get better. If you want to be systematic, go to a library and find dialect records and books like those that actors study, or just listen to recordings of people who have good native accents. If you have an ancestral accent to fall back on-something you heard from your parents or grandparents-try that first.

For material, look up the works of Stanley Holloway (Yorkshire or cockney), Robert Burns (Scottish), Vance Randolph (Ozarks). Then there's Joel Chandler Harris-don't let anyone tell you it's not politically correct. They don't know what they're talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 05:19 PM

How about talking blues?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 05:28 PM

I think Malvina Reynolds was asked this once about herself, She sang anyway. And anyone who heard her sing discovered the voice within the lyric by the time she had sung more than half a song. Everyone has a voice and its usually those who think they don't that have the most expressive way to sing what they have to say.

Sing anyway.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Margo
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 06:12 PM

You know, Rex Harrison can't sing, and he was in a musical. Listen to the songs he did, and you'll see that he basically "talked" his way through the songs. He even talks through "I've Grown Accustomed to her Face" which has a nice melody.

And what about Bob Dylan? He basically did the same thing. Apologies to Dylan fans, but Dylan can't sing either, so maybe your friend could adapt some songs using that style. (just stating matter of fact, not a criticizm)

Poetry is great. You have all the components of singing except the pitch: emotional inflection, dynamic variance, rhythm. I bet she can find lots of material.

Margo

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Froodo
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 06:22 PM

Might be skating on thin ice Margo. Folk=Dylan=folk

But I hear what you're saying.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: JenEllen
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 06:47 PM

It will take work and experimentation, and a lot of patience on the part of your group, but everyone can make a joyful noise. Part lies in finding your medium, part lies in finding your voice, and the rest lies in finding your audience. Like Maya Angelou, the caged bird sang long enough to annoy most folks, and they let her out to talk her song. Best of luck to your friend, and just remind her that if Joey Ramone can do it, she can too.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST,SeanM, still at work, just not working
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 07:35 PM

Whoelheartedly recommend any of the above options, but there's other factors.

If you're dealing with the right, supportive group of people, chances are that singing any song, regardless of quality level of the voice singing it, will be appreciated - as long as the spirit behind it comes through.

At a shanty sing one night, a young lady stood up and sang "Home Dearie Home" - couldn't stay in key, off tempo, voice cracking and all. Yet something about the look on her face... the emotion in her voice...

By the end, several people were in or near tears (and not due to the voice), and she was roundly applauded.

It was somehow both one of the worst, and most beautiful, renditions I'd heard.

SeanM

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 08:22 PM

Yes, Rex Harrison had about a five-note range, so the composer, after shuddering a little bit at the thought, wrote for him in that range.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Hagbardr
Date: 04 Feb 00 - 11:48 PM

Don't worry, Patrish. Complete inability to hold a note or carry a tune has never stopped me from trying to sing. Can't say the same for crowbar wielding manics though.......

Hagbard

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Feb 00 - 10:49 AM

There is a lot more in the music than the singing. Start by handing her a rhythm instrument and let her discover she has music in her Everyone has an instrument. To be human is to be musical. We are hard-wired for it. Not everyone's instrument is their voice. Help her find hers, and don't try to "teach" her a thing-- she's already been "taught" she can't sing.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Grab
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 07:47 AM

Simple answer - play an instrument instead! Carry a melody with a fiddle/mandolin/banjo/flute/squeezebox/recorder/anything else, and it doesn't matter that you don't sing

On the strange instruments front, there's a guy at work can play the biro! He clamps a Bic between his teeth and twangs the end! I guess it's a similar technique to the jew's harp (don't they call it the jaws harp now, to be politically correct?). Very strange though.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 08:18 AM

I wouldn't want to push anyone to sing that didn't want to, but I don't think she should dismiss the idea. In the same way that we shouldn't all look the same, neither should we all sound the same. I think about 30% of the people I meet at singarounds don't have conventional 'good voices' - but they all bear listening to. We are very fortunate in that everyone is listened to and genuinely appreciated. I think the feeling behind the singing is very important, and that always comes through. The whole point is that we sing for fun and to share our pleasure in the songs. If we were all capable of perfect performances then I think the evening would loose its flavour and intimacy. But poems & monologues are fine too. I just think that if she likes to listen and wants to contribute, then perhaps she just needs to take the plunge. She might surprise herself.

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 12:12 PM

Many Many thanks for all your suggestions.I have printed them off and they will be put to good use by my friend. I had a good look through past threads and came up with some wonderful stuff on monologues. If I could do blue clicky things then this would be the time. Thanks again,
love
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 10:38 AM

Can she play spoons, or simpler yet, table-top...to set u a rhythm behind the poem or story. Something I'd love to hear in a song circle, if one has the memory for it, is "The cremation of Sam McGee."

"Moil" is such a great word.

singing&dancing, -val.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 10:52 AM

Have you heard it set to Debby McClatchy's tune?

Are we tune moilers or songmongers

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Tchaikovsky
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 12:22 PM

What do you do if you cannot sing? Become a backup singer for Bob Dylan....oh sorry, that was evil...

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 12:43 PM

Yes but it did keep the thread active!

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 01:02 PM

if I really wanted to pursue it, I would find out WHY I couldn't sing...In the first post it was said "she can't hold a tune"....this can mean more than one thing. Is it inability to 'make the sound', a physical problem? Or is it an inability to 'remember' the tune? Can she sing simple, childhood melodies, like "Old MacDonald" or "Row, Row, Row Your Boat"? Can she sing in the shower? Does she KNOW when she misses a note?...I personnally have trouble reproducing complex, wavering songs with lots of accidentals, but I can usually sing a simple song in a major key. Does she 'know' when someone ELSE misses a note or gets the tune wrong?...I can hear other peoples mistakes, even when I can't sing it myself..and in this case, it CAN be learned. I have a friend who has hearing loss in the mid-ranges, and it really hampers his ability to reproduce a song. But in other people, I suspect it is a psychological barrier of being more aware of the audience than the song.

In short, there are various reasons why the head and the vocal cords do not co-operate. I guess it depends on how badly one wants to pursue the problem...

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Marymac90
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 01:42 PM

What if you've been told you can't carry a tune, but you really WANT to? I can tell quite well when someone else is off, but not when I am. I can do better when I know a tune really well, but I get bored of the same old stuff all the time. I try to do stuff with a smaller range, not because I don't have a big range-I think I do-but because when I go up high or down low, I'm more likely to get lost on the way back. I do a lot of singing under my breath, to avoid annoying people, but when the feeling hits me, I sing out anyway!

Mary McCaffrey

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Feb 00 - 10:46 AM

Here's my two cents:

I also have a friend who would like to sing, but she has no idea what note she is on... she cannot hear her own voice and how off pitch it is. Believe me, this is painful to listen to, so even though we are all off a little once in awhile when we sing, some people have real difficulty in hitting the right note enough to even create a recognizable melody. Everyone can improve with learning and practice, but some people are just born with a better ear for singing. I would encourage her to get a tape recorder and sing scales in the range that feels natural to her. She can listen to herself and keep recording, listening, practicing each day in private until she can hear improvement and begins to feel confidence in staying in tune. Then move on to songs, recording them along with the scales and listening for where she needs to work on staying in pitch. Recording yourself when you practice or have a voice lesson is a valuable method for anyone learning to sing.

-alice

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Ferrara
Date: 20 Feb 00 - 11:57 AM

I've always had the same problem about not hearing when I was off pitch. It got a lot better when I learned to play the piano. I learned to hit the pitch that the piano was playing. I still have trouble with pitch sometimes so I just practice, practice, practice.

If your friend would like to try a song in public sometime, the very best approach is to pick a song she can sing "pretty well" and practice it all day long for a few weeks. Practice when she's cooking or washing her hair, walking or paying bills. (Be careful about singing when you're driving though -- not everyone can do it and still pay attention.) Use a tape recorder, certainly, to help her see where she's off key.

Actually she'll probably have to pick out three or four songs to keep from dying of boredom... But nothing helps your singing like paying attention to a song and how you're singing it. Also nothing helps your confidence like knowing you've been over this song until you know it and your voice knows it too. It may not be a concert quality rendition, but when you're really comfortable with a song, you'll do much much better.

Under these conditions you may still be anxious, and what you sing may not be perfect, but all the drilling and practice works, it's amazing: your voice and body and subconscious take over and sing the song while your mind is still fretting.

Not everyone has to resort to these drastic measures. I do, because as I said, I have a tendency to go off pitch and anyway I get so nervous and self conscious when I perform that I'll fall apart if I haven't practiced.

I'm no longer nervous at open sings or the Getaway, but I still get horribly anxious in front of a larger audience. So, since I like to sing for people, I practice.

Another thing -- the *worst* thing at our open sings, is people who aren't strong singers and *haven't practiced their songs.* You don't have to have a good voice, but it's obvious if you're winging it. A simple song sung with confidence, and on tune, sounds infinitely better than a wobbly attempt at some complicated singer-songwriter thing.

Even for recitations, practice is definitely the thing. I've done "The Cremation of Sam McGee" once or twice, and it was darned hard to learn all those words (I had a cheat sheet for emergencies), but I worked even harder on the way that I would say them.

Hope this is some use to someone.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: MK
Date: 20 Feb 00 - 12:07 PM

One very valuable tip, to improve pitch when singing (and this is from a friend of mine who is a vocal teacher at Toronto's Humber College) as simple as it sounds, and, actually works...is to smile, when singing.

It can help make the difference between being just slightly flat pitch-wise, and nailing the note(s).

Makes you wonder about all the singers you see on TV who are always smiling when they sing.     8-)

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Feb 00 - 02:21 PM

Dear Grab- We might do well to remember that in most cases PC could mean Proper Courtesy. When one realizes that a phrase, a name, a title, was originally meant to be denigrating, it doesn't compute to go on using it. And a jaw harp is much more on the mark, wouldn't you say?

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 07:22 AM

Why is jew's harp denigrating?

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 11:48 AM

Well King, if you have to ask a question like that then perhaps you need to change the second part of your handle.

Pretend you are Jewish, and then, think about it.

If you have half a brain you will undoubtedly end up answering your own question.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you if you cant sing?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 11:57 AM

KingBrilliant,

I would be glad to discuss your question in the Personal Pages if you'd like.