Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 06:18 AM

"Unfortunate for the British, but certainly not for the Americans"

I'm not too sure that was entirely true for the original inhabitants of what ultimately became the USA. And it's questionable if slavery would have lasted as long as it did.

But I'd think the article would have been primarily thinking about the impact on the tea trade.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 06:21 AM

But to get back to the question in my opening post - are there any songs or broadsheet ballads or whatever about the Boston Tea Party dating from that period, rather than written long afterwards?

Either in the USA or back in England?

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 10:12 AM

A couple of interesting notes, I thought it was Patrick Henry who said "Give me liberty or give me death."

Paul Revere got caught smuggling, the British authorities took his ship, and he got revenge by creating the "Boston Massacre". The charges were bogus, and John Adams got the soldiers off free much to the chagrin of those who wanted to create an incident.

On the eve of the revolution, there was only one restrictive law in place, the Navigation Acts, and that guaranteed markets for American goods. Those whackos just wanted to fight the crown.It was all about the power of the purse strings. They wanted the protection of the British soldiers against the indians, but they didn't want to pay for it.
Sorta like certain conservatives today, they want all the government can give them, but no taxes to pay for it.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 07:20 PM

Kendall, thanks for the bit on John Adams and the Boston Massacre. I had recalled something similar about John Adams defending a slave named Cinque, when he took over a slave ship. I cannot recall the name of the ship, but I believe a movie was made about the incident.

The interesting fact I do seem to remember was that the Supreme Court decision on freeing Cinque, was written by a justice named Tanney, who later wrote the Dred Scott decision, to a much different result.

Somebody help an old man out here...

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 09:32 PM

The movie was "Amistad" and if you google    slave, cinque    Claymore, you'll find stuff.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 03:46 AM

Just a thought (as much of this is in various forms of unrecorded/ late recorded history) with various uncomfirmed views.
If (as Timehiker quoted) SKIP ITALICS if you've followed the thread:
I'd like to throw in my two cents worth on this subject. Just a few details to add to the Encyclopedia Brittanica post. The taxes on the tea in Boston harbor had already been paid by the East India Company, so it was the principle of taxation without representation that was the focus of the political protest. The tea was also less expensive than any other tea in town, smuggled or not. So a lot of local merchants had an economic stake in the game also.

The laws of Boston Harbor stated that, once a ship had docked, it had a certain amount of time to unload or the cargo would be confiscated and sold at auction (at prices so low, even rebels couldn't be trusted to resist). The Sons of Liberty had made it known that they wouldn't allow the tea to be unloaded. There had been violent protests in Boston before, so the owners didn't risk damage to their ships by trying to unload the tea. If the rebels waited until after the deadline to destroy the tea, they would be breaking laws passed by their own legislature. The Sons of Liberty waited until the night before the deadline, then boarded the ships and threw the tea into the harbor. Interestingly, this was one of the least violent of the "tea parties". In other colonies, tea merchants were harrassed, and at least one ship was burned.

It would appear that the ships owners/masters would also have an interest in discharging their cargoes with no damage to their vessels, and as they were likely to be selling at a great loss anyway and could have been behind this matter.
Did Lloyds of London feature in payouts at all?

Nigel (just muddying the water, as tea does!)

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: JJ
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 08:51 AM

It wasn't John Adams who defended Cinque and his men at the Amistad trial, but his son, John Quincy Adams.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Melani
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 01:18 PM

This is all totally fascinating. Thanks for ressurecting the thread, guys. I have just joined an 18th century nautical re-enactors group, and never having done 18th century, I have a lot of research to do.

Next time I go to Boston, the Tea Party Museum will definitely be on the itinerary. Just a comment on kid programs--even if you leave out the nasty bits, getting a kid interested in a subject at an early age can lead to a lifetime of interest. They will find out the whole truth in good time.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Ferrara
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 01:42 PM

McGrath, rich r posted a song called "TEA, DESTROYED BY INDIANS" which he say was published shortly after the event.

... And Obie, just ask my spouse Bill D whether we have any tea here fit to drink. Although admittedly right now Bill's trying out a supply of Yorkshire Tea that arrived with the Shellback chorus.... Our Shellback guests can testify to the quality of the coffee that Bill brews, as well. :-)

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 01:47 PM

But still no contemporary stuff?

I've been having a look through the Bodleian Library online catalogue of Ballads. No luck so far. Maybe it wasn';t sensational enough. But I'd have thought it would have been in Boston, if not back here. Surely they had broadsheet ballads in 18th Century Boston?

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 03:48 PM

Glad that you found some good tea Ferrara!
There is also some good brew made there in micro breweries. Sam Adams comes to mind. The crap is from people like Miller and Busch. There is a lot of significance to those horses hauling the Bud!
The best brands of Canadian tea are Morse's, King Cole, and Red Rose. Earl Grey is really bad so you have to pick and choose.
My sister in law in the New York City area seems to find stuff that's not to bad, but I forget the brand.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Ferrara
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 04:07 PM

McGrath -- I'm confused. I thought the song I mentioned was contemporary with the Tea Party (at least within a month or so?)

Obie, for tea the trick is to find loose tea that you can buy by the pound, so brand names aren't that relevant.

Beerwise (sorry! couldn't resist ...)we have MUCH better stuff than Sam Adams which isn't really a micro brewery IMHO although I do like their beer.

My favorite U.S. beer ever was Celis Grand Cru. The brewmaster at Celis was Belgian and produced wonderful ales. But Miller, damn them, bought Celis and stopped making the Grand Cru because it wasn't profitable enough. I think they finally let the whole Celis brewery die. Damn them again.

Well that's off topic, would have PM'd you but you're signed on as a guest.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 04:12 PM

A brief look in American Memory found several songs. but they are all after the fact, some written on the centenary of the event. I also wonder why there are no songs.

An interesting article on the event from the Boston Gazette, Dec. 20, 1773, enlarging on posts above: "in less than four hours emptied every chest of tea on board the three ships commanded by the Captains Hall, Bruce and Coffin, amounting to 342 chests, into the sea! without the least damage done to the ships or other property. The masters and owners are well pleas'd that their ships are thus clear'd, and the people are almost universally congratulating each other on this happy event."
The bias of the paper toward the "Mohawks" (who were mostly Freemasons) is obvious.
A broadside by the "Tradesmen of Boston" protested the event and supported buying and selling freely, thus not everyone was happy about the dumping.

Tea was also dumped elsewhere. In the same Boston Gazette article: "Capt. Loring in a brig from London, having 58 chests of the detested tea on board, was cast ashore on the Back of Cape Cod last Friday fe'night: 'Tis expected the "Cape Indians" will give us a good Account of the tea against our next (issue)." Tea is called a "detestable herb" and "Poison."

In western Canada: the only Lapsang Souchong I can find that is readily available comes from a mail order site in Washington state. Very good quality, in bulk.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 07 Nov 03 - 12:45 PM

re tea in Western Canada: You can get Lapsang Souchong at Murchies, both in Vancouver and Victoria.
http://www.murchies.com

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 03 - 01:14 PM

I'd missed that TEA, DESTROYED BY INDIANS posted by rich. Thanks, Ferrera for drawing my attentin to it.

Not in the Bodleian collection. Is there an American equivalent online collection?

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Nov 03 - 02:39 PM

Also wondering about American broadside collections. The only large one on line is through American Memory, which includes broadsides at Duke and other Universities as well as those cataloged and put on line by American government repositories. Not sure how the indexing is done- I have searched by subject usually.

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 07 Nov 03 - 08:23 PM

Hello All .
                           I have a great little story to put into this thread.   When my wife first came down to Connecticut to marry me we met an old artist friend of mine who asked Erica what she did in Boston and she told him that among other things she had worked at Paul Reveres house in the north of Boston. A year or so later this guy gave Erica a small drawing that he said came out of a collection of books he had bought from Roger Sherman's house of Sherman Ct. It was a drawing of the Green Dragon Inn where the Masons gathered that night and on it were these words
                                        GREEN DRAGON TAVERN                          
                      WHERE WE MET TO PLAN THE COSINGNMENT
                        OF A FEW SHIPMENTS OF TEA DEC 16 th 1773
                      PAUL REVERE NORTH ?????? BOSTON MASS.      
                               JOHN JOHNSON 4 WATER ST.    1779
        
                       The Picture shows an old building with barrels on the roof or widows walk . Not a common practice in modern day New England.
        At any rate years latter I showed the paper to the curatorial department at the Wooster Museum who are interested in Revere and the masons of that period and she said that yes it was real but it was a remembrance of a get-together years later to remember what they had done . She showed me one they had in their collection that was very much like ours but with a horse and rider not in my copy and without the Barrels on the roof. Both drawings had the masonic logo on them in different places !
                          The point is the action was political in my take. Roger Sherman of Connecticut went very far out of his way (if he was involved ) to help tea smugglers. I think he went back to the reunion party because of its important place in the history of our separation from the mother country and it was defiantly a free mason action! .
                                    All the best to all here. Guy Wolff

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 07 Nov 03 - 08:52 PM

On the Political versus economic question. My Great whatever grandfather and Uncle( They were twin brothers) John & Jonathan Glover had a shipping business in Boston well Marbelhead. The family story goes that one stayed home and ran the shipping ( or during the revolution Pirating ) and the other gave the first Sloop the the American Navy The Sloop Hannah and helped Washington and his troops get around. If you look at the picture of Washington crossing the Delaware the guy behind him looking nervous was my great GGGGG uncle Johnathan Glover. So I guess the answer is Political??? Economic ???? BOTH
                                 Again All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: Boston Tea Party - lie or myth?
From: Melani
Date: 07 Nov 03 - 09:52 PM

I like Earl Grey.