Warner field recordings on CD

Subject: Warners' field recordings on CD
From: GUEST,Nancy-Jean
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 01:50 PM

One of the highlights of the Folk Alliance meetings in Cleveland was the workshop presentation of the CD made of Ann and Frank Warner's field recordings. It's available on Appleseed. A real collector's item!

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 02:24 PM

Oooohhh! I have the book, what a combo that will be!

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 03:58 PM

No habla Appleseed. Where can I get it?

A

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: GUEST,Nancy-Jean
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 04:24 PM

Appleseed Recordings
415 383-1134
247 Marion Ave
Mill Valley, CA 94941

email: [e-mail]
www.Appleseedrec.com

I copied this from the business card of the PR fellow at the Folk Alliance. Bonne chance!!

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 04:27 PM

Merci!

A

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 11:06 PM

I just finished listening to the one I picked up in Cleveland. It's an extraordinary experience to listen to those voices after hearing all about those folks from Frank Warner's performances --- as well as those of Jeff Warner and Jeff Davis. Lena Bourne Fish, Yankee John Galusha-----simply the closing of a loop for me. and the book has always been a wonderful part of my library. The prose portion is even as captivating as the songs themselves. This is as important as the Lomax reissues on Rounder and the Library of Congress CD that Steve Wade edited and the Beech Mountain recordings issued by Sandy Paton on Folk Legacy.

Nancy Jean, It was grand meeting you in Cleveland.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: DonMeixner
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 11:25 PM

I have a 10" 33 1/3 of Frank Warner that shows him and his famous autographed banjo on the cover. Kinda rough in spots but it plays. Great stuff to hear tho' Frank was not a great voice.

Don

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 14 Feb 00 - 11:55 PM

What label is the Warner collection on, Art? Is it something we can order from one of the distributors? I've GOTTA get it!

By the way, I guess I can finally announce that the CD of selected field recordings of my own, made over the past forty-two years, is finally here! It arrived from the pressing plant today. Twenty-one cuts, recorded in Scotland, New Brunswick, the Adirondacks, the Catskills, the Ozarks, the Midwest, and Appalachia. These are the original traditional singers from whom I've gathered songs, including Jeannie Robertson in Aberdeen, Scotland, her daughter, Lizzie Higgins; Joe Estey, Marie Hare and James Brown of New Brunswick; Frank Proffitt, Dave Thompson and Lee Monroe Presnell of North Carolina; Lawrence Older and Grant Rogers of New York; William Harrison Burnett of Arkansas; Vern Smelser of Indiana and several more..

The production was held up for awhile because we had a hard time finding a company that could supply a jewel box large enough to accept the fifty-six page, illustrated booklet that comes with the CD. Anyway, it's finally available.

Let me warn you, though: this is the real stuff, folks, with the bark left on, not all prettied up for the pop-song market.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 00 - 01:49 AM

I sent an e-mail to appleseed, asking them to stop and visit and give us more information.

In the meantime, let me put in a plug for Sandy Paton's new Folk-Legacy CD, Ballads and Songs of Tradition. Many field recordings are a bit lacking in sound quality. You might want to listen to them for academic purposes, but you wouldn't listen to them for pleasure. Not so with this CD - it's an absolute pleasure to listen to. Another of Sandy's gems is his Brave Boys collection of New England traditional folk music.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 15 Feb 00 - 02:29 AM

Appleseed. Right! I should have paid more attention to Nancy-Jean's post above. Jim Musselman is the genius behind Appleseed. He gave us the tribute to Pete Seeger CD, on which everyone you ever heard of sang songs that Pete created. Brilliant production. I assume all good Mudcatters have a copy. Well, you do, don't you?

Sandy (fanning the flames)

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Feb 00 - 12:00 PM

Aye, Sandy it's great to know my backordered one will go out soon. I remember you talking about recording Jeanie Robertson on a WCBC (?) Meetin' House radio show with Phil Green out of Chicago---way back in '59 or '60 I'm pretty sure. And I've got to go on the record as one of those who DOES LISTEN TO THE FIELD RECORDINGS FOR PLEASURE !!! I even love the skips and pops left on the old tapes I made in the 1950s of Library Of Congress albums I took out of the Chicago Public Library back then. The scratches and skips and pops and clicks, for me, are the actual sounds of time passing . It makes the listening experience just that much better with a whole other dimension. Any of you who have LEARNED to love single malt scotch like Laphraoig taken neat (as I have) will fully understand listening to unaccompanied field recorded songs folksongs and ballads for pleasure.

Congratulations to Jim Musselman and to Mr. Paton for getting these great recordings out . (By the way, the Warner collection CD on Appleseed is ONLY VOLUME ONE !)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 00 - 12:52 PM

You gents are a joy. Thanks for feeding the pure stuff to this wonderful place.

I cut my eye teeth on Warner's LP (the same one) and have revered him ever since -- clicks, pops and all.

In 1946, on the East side of New York, my parents brought Warner back to their place after a long night in the Village, and he volunteered to take the baby, who was fussing.

He walked the infant around their living room singing "Hush, Lil Baby", which said infant found wonderful calming, and restored him to sleep in his crib.

I never did find out how the rest of the night turned out, as I was asleep (in the crib). :>)

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 15 Feb 00 - 12:52 PM

If all goes as planned, Art, my Ballads and Songs of Tradition (CD-125) is also a "Volume 1." So many good songs, so little time.

I'll put your copy in the mail pronto.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 11:58 AM

I spent a weekend with Jeff Warner last month. He, Roy Harris, Jerry Epstein and I were singing choruses on a forthcoming sea music CD. Jeff brought along the master of the Warner collection CD and we sat and listened to it at least twice from start to finish. At the very least, it's just great to hear those voices so long locked away. Many of them are 19th century voices. People spoke and sang quite differently then. And, of course, it is a great companion to the Warners very important collection of American folk song.

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 03:29 PM

Dan,

Did it seem to you that the cuts on the CD were a bit short? Many of those songs need several more verses to be complete I thought. Some were full songs, but some left me dangling. Still, it's a marvelous recording.I guess I'd best e-mail Jeff and get it from the horses mouth.

Art

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: GUEST,Nancy-Jean
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:28 PM

I had the impression that the Warners recorded only a few verses of a song and Ann Warner took down the rest in shorthand.

The Flanders Ballad Collection, on the other hand, has recordings of entire songs. Everything the singer could remember. I have listened to some of the Flanders Collection reel-to-reel tapes at the Library of Congress and must say that I prefer hearing the whole song, the whole story from start to finish.

Hopefully, one day, all of our great field collections will be available to the public on CD. There is nothing like learning a ballad from the person who loved it and made a point of wanting to pass it all to others.

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 05:43 PM

I'd also heard, from Jerry Epstein (who did the transcriptions in the Warner book), that the Warner's only recorded a verse or two on tape, while Anne Warner took down the complete version in shorthand. It had to do with the dearness of recording material: tape (and its predecessors) was expensive (and during the wartime years, scarce) and therefore never in plentiful supply. So recording only a verse or two was a conservation measure.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:16 PM

Remember the wonderful Caedmon LPs of traditional songs from England, Scotland and Ireland? They edited out many verses, but printed the entire texts in the accompanying booklets. My reaction was mixed. The process enabled them to include many more songs than they could otherwise have given us, but I kept wanting to hear Mrs. Cronin (for example) sing the entire ballad of "Lord Gregory" to let me know how she phrased certain lines and verses. Frustrating! But, yes, the Warners' conservatism was thoroughly justified in light of the material costs and limitations of time available on the medium involved in the recording. Those good folk financed their own collecting trips and devoted their lives to the work. If the final result is equally frustrating, it's also understandable. Damn! Where was the NEA when we needed it?

Sandy

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 10:52 PM

Hi Art!

Yes. That's it.

As I'm sure you know, the idea was to "record" the songs for prosterity rather than to put out records and, given the cost of the shellac discs in particular, they decided to record only a few verses for melody and style and, as Charlie Baum has said above, Mrs. Warner took down all the verses shorthand.

What do you think of The Irish 69th?

All the best, Dan

Subject: Gerret & Jeff in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 12:04 PM

Gerret & Jeff Warner will perform songs from their parents' collection in New York City on Friday, March 16, 2001, at the Advent Lutheran Church, Broadway & West 93rd Street. Special guest: Tim Eriksen. The show begins at 8:00 PM and is sponsored by the New York Pinewoods Folk Music Club.

General admission: $13
Seniors citizens or students: $9
Children: $6
s: free

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: GUEST,jeff warner
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 01:32 PM

Thanks for all the interesting comments and thoughts.

The texts for the songs on Volume I of the Warner Collection are either in my mother's book, Traditional American Folksongs, or on the Appleseed Website, www.appleseedrec.com

The texts for vol II: "Nothing Seems Better to Me: Music of Frank Proffitt and North Carolina" have been sent off to the web site and, it is my understanding, will be up shortly. Brother Gerret and I edited nothing out of the recordings we selected for the CDs.

We will, in fact, be doing songs and stories from the collection in NY City on Friday, 3/16 http://members.aol.com/nypinewood/club.html#upclub

and Washington, DC on Sat. 3/17

http://www.fsgw.org/concert.htm#1264

Right now, the Washington writeup is better.

We will be singing with Tim Eriksen of Cordelia's Dad, who stayed after us to get the collection on CD. We are planning to have a v. good time, and do the concert/programs elsewhere. We'll be on tour in North Carolina the first half of November: Duke, Appalachian State Univ., etc.

info will eventually be up on www.jeffwarner.com You can reach me there, if you have questions, at [e-mail]

Subject: Pinewoods members: free
From: Suffet
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 05:22 PM

Regarding Gerret & Jeff Warner's appearance in New York City on March 16, 2001: that last line should have read:

Pinewoods members: free

That's right all you Warner fans out there: join the New York Pinewoods Folk Music Club and you get to go to this concert plus 5 other top quality traditional music events each year absolutely free. In addition, you get a membership discount on admission to many other fine events sponsored by the club in and around the five boroughs of New York City. And you get our monthly newsletter, always jam packed with information on what's going on in and around the NY metro area.

For Pinewoods membership information, please contact:

Anne Price
80 Knolls Crescent, #2M
Bronx, NY 10463

Phone: [phone]

E-mail: [e-mail]

See you all on March 16th at 8 PM.

Remember the location:

Advent Lutheran Church
Broadway & West 93rd Street
New York City

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: GUEST,Jerry Epstein
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 11:41 PM

Anyone interested in hearing Frank Warner (along with Jeff and Gerret) should check into the Minstrel recording of Frank from around 1980. Only on vinyl of course, but available real cheap. Email Don Wade for info: [e-mail] Yeah, I admit I am prejudiced. . . .But it is a really great recording.

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: GUEST,Jerry Epstein
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 11:54 PM

The Warner brothers concert in New York will not just be them singing (although that ain't half bad), they will also be playing recordings of the source singers, showing pictures, playing recordings of conversations with Frank and Anne, etc. Should be quite an amazing show. They are also doing it in DC next night (3/17).

Back in 1940 it I think virtually impossible to get enough of the lacquer discs to record whole songs. They first had tape in 1950 and then recorded not only whole songs, but also extensive talk with the source singers. It is a matter of immense good fortune that they were able to get recording equipment at all in 1940, as they had no money and no outside support. Fortunately someone (at Philco if I remember) became interested in what they had been finding since 1938, which Frank was able to communicate with his amazing singing.

It is also worth noting the immense improvement in the quality of the recordings that modern technology has made possible for the CD. COmpared to what I had to work with to do the transcriptions for the book, it just blows my mind.

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Francy
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 01:46 AM

We need to thank Josh Michaels of Appleseed recording for his toil and sweat in making this collection available. He sent me both copies and I have used them repeatedly on my small radio show and I listen to them all the time. Josh is located somewhere in bay area of California....Frank of Toledo............

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 08:34 AM

I am actually very sorry that I'll be in Ireland when the Warners are in NYC with what promises to be a fascinating multimedia program.

Both Folk-Legacy and Camsco, I believe, have copies of the CD so, if you can't get to Washington or New York City on March 16th and 17th, Mudcatters the World over can at least get a copy of the CD. I've got mine.

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 09:44 AM

Perhaps a bit off topic, but did the Warners ever use film (of any kind) in their travels. Actually, same question to you Sandy...I don't think I ever asked you.

Rick

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Art Thieme
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 12:45 PM

Jeff & Dr. Jerry --- It's sure good to "talk" to you guys even if just by virtual cyberstuff.

Folks, these'll be fine concerts and I envy all who can be there.

My best to all at Pinewoods and in D.C.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 03:40 PM

Having been so thrilled by repeated playings of Vol.1 of the Warner tapes I can't wait to get my hands on Vol.2. As for the book,I love it. I got my copy in 1985, since when I have recommended it to everyone I know who professes an interest in traditional music. My reasons for doing so go beyond the inclusion of so many beautiful songs. The Warner book stands out for it's sterling descriptions of the people who gave the songs, and for the obvious affection and respect the Warner's held for those people, their music, and their way of life. They tell their story with loving pride, an approach that makes this a book that would be valuable EVEN WITHOUT the songs, for the lessons it's text and photographs have to teach us. This is not a book made by people who look upon songs as 'material' and singers as 'informants'. The Warners hearts beat from every page. Now, with the CD's we have the voices to flesh out those exemplary chapters. Go get 'em. And Go To That Concert Too! It will be brilliant. While I'm doling out recommendations - If you live within the NY Pinewoods FMC catchment area and you're not a member - sign up immediately! It's your passport to great music, great programmes, great people, and one of the finest resources in the American folk revival today. Only a fool would miss out.

Subject: RE: Warner field recordings on CD
From: Tinker
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 04:17 PM

Just in case someone lurking here abouts is wondering if they should try field recordings. Til I found the 'cat last summer I wouldn't have had a clue. Then I picked up Songs of Seduction from the Lomax Collection..... said I didn't enjoy it, but found myself listening to it a suspicious amont of time. [Yes, very much (to my memory any way) like a young college girl acquiring a taste for Guiness !!]

Then in the fall, Sandy and Caroline sent me home from Getaway with Ballads and Songs of Tradition, I'm hooked. Yes, sometimes the songs are too short. Jeannie Robertson's "Are You Sleeping Maggie?" is only a snippet, but too grand to be missed.(and the DT has full lyrics) And the phrasing and timing changes haven't been smoothed out in the studio. These are very REAL songs. Definately worth a try.

Tinker