Penguin: I Wish, I Wish

Subject: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish ^^
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 19 Feb 00 - 09:15 PM

G'day,
From the Penguin Book Of English Folk Songs, Ed Pellow's rendition of the tune of I Wish, I Wish can be found here.

I WISH, I WISH
Sung by Mrs C. Costello, Birmingham (M.S. and P.S.-S.1951)

I wish, I wish, but it's all in vain,
I wish I were a maid again;
But a maid again I never shall be
Till apples grow on an orange tree.

I wish my baby it was born,
And smiling on its papa's knee,
And I to be in yon churchyard,
With long green grass growing over me.

When my apron-strings hung low,
He followed me through frost and snow,
But now my apron's to my chin,
He passes by and says nothing.

Oh grief, oh grief, I'll tell you why -
That girl has more gold than I;
More gold than I and beauty and fame,
But she will come like me again.
^^

See also in the DT DIED FOR LOVE.

Previous song: The Grey Cock Or The Lover's Ghost.
Next Song: Jack The Jolly Tar.

Penguin Index provided by Joe Offer

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 20 Feb 00 - 02:39 PM

Mrs. Cecilia Costello sang it on Leader LEE 4054.

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: sophocleese
Date: 20 Feb 00 - 02:43 PM

Nice again Alan, but I'm not sure you should say 'Cheers" after it.

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Susan of DT
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 10:21 AM

see also #320 and Careless Love

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Jul 00 - 08:52 PM

From the notes to the Penguin Book (1959):

"Most English songs tell a story. However, there are also songs that are merely lyrical expressions of a mood -usually arising from love denied or betrayed. Such songs are not held together by any narrative; instead they employ a number of images and symbols that are combined and recombined in song after song. Thus whole songs may be made up from "floating" verses familiar in other contexts, or attached to other melodies. The verses of I Wish, I Wish are most commonly found either in the song called Waly Waly or in Died For Love. Jazz enthusiasts may be interested in the apron-low, apron-high motif, which re-appears in the Blues called Careless Love. It was also used by John Clare in The Faithless Shepherd, a poem largely made up of traditional 'floaters'". -R.V.W/A.L.L.

Professor Child considered Waly Waly to be part of the ballad James Douglas, and included it under his number #204; this assessment is nowadays less generally accepted.

@love @death @seduction

Other related songs on the DT besides those linked to above:

Waly Waly (3)

Waly Waly (James Douglas)
When Cockleshells Turn Silver Bells

The Water is Wide
The Waters of Tyne

Love Has Brought Me To Despair (DT #824 Laws P25)

The Butcher's Boy

There is a Tavern in the Town

This group is DT No. #320, Laws P24

Additional information in the Forum (not an exhaustive list; mostly contributions from Bruce Olson):

Waly Waly

The Water is Wide

The Water is Wide

Relevant entries at the Traditional Ballad Index:

Waly Waly (The Water is Wide)

The Butcher Boy [Laws P24]

There is a broadside version of The Butcher's Boy at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads, printed by H. De Marsan, 54 Chatham Street, New York c.1860: Butcher Boy (Large image)

It would take a really serious flow-chart to explain the relationship between the large number of songs that share "floating" verses with the Died For Love/ Waly Waly/ Water is Wide group. Many appear at first sight to be related. but are probably quite separate. Some examples would be:

Carrickfergus
See also Origins of Carrickfergus

I Know My Love
The Queen of Hearts
Black is the Colour
T Stands for Thomas
T Stands for Thomas (2)

The Butcher's Boy, apparantly a uniquely American variant, seems to belong with songs such as Love Has Brought Me To Despair and In Sheffield Park rather than with Died For Love, but the jury appears still to be out on that one.

Malcolm

Subject: Lyr Add: DIED FOR LOVE
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 07:37 PM

Here's an example with "floating verses" from both Died for Love and the Butcher's Boy in the DT (and almost a narrative)

DIED FOR LOVE

There was a young farmer who once courted me
He stole my heart and sweet liberty
He stole my heart with a sweet good will
And I must confess that I love him still.

There is an alehouse in the town.
My love go in and sit himself down.
He takes another girl on his knee,
Now don't you think that's a grief to me.

Grief to me, yes, I'll tell you why
Because she's got more gold than I
Her gold will waste and her silver fly
And she'll become a poor girl like I.

Oh, don't I wish my baby was born,
Sat smiling on its dadda's knee
And I myself in a cold, cold grave
With green grass growing over me

[The farmer]* coming home one night,
He call-ed for his heart's delight.
Upstairs he flew and the door he broke,
He found his love hanging there by a rope.

He took a knife and cut her down.
Unto her bosom a note he found.
"Since I can't be this young farmer's wife,
Then with this rope I have ended my life.

So dig me a grave both long, wide and deep
Strew it with flowers that do smell sweet,
And on my bosom two turtle doves,
To let the world know I died for love."
^^
* "Her father" makes more sense, but since when has logic and consistency had anything to do with folksong?

Close relatives of every one of these verses are in either Died for Love or the Butcher's Boy, but not in the same order.

Collected by Desmond and Shelagh Herring at Rattlesden, Suffolk 1958-59 from the singing of Emily Sparkes.

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 08:25 PM

Good stuff.  Is this one published?  Any chance of a .midi of the melody?

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 08:35 AM

It's on a double cassette called "Many a Good Horseman, traditional music making from mid-Suffolk recorded 1958-1993", issued by Veteran Tapes of Haughley, Suffolk.

The tape is all field recordings, roughly 40% singing, 40%instrumental (melodeon, concertina harmonica etc - NO STRINGS!!), and 20% talking about the old days.

I'll post a midi tonight from home. I've made an ABC of all the songs on the tapes, and also typed out the words - PM me if you'd like these.

Subject: Tune Add: DIED FOR LOVE
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 06:16 PM

Here is the midi of the version of Died For Love that I posted on 10th July.

MIDI file: DIED4LUV.MID

Timebase: 96

TimeSig: 3/4 24 8
Key: C
Tempo: 120 (500000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0000 1 62 064 0096 0 62 000 0000 1 67 064 0096 0 67 000 0000 1 71 064 0096 0 71 000 0000 1 74 064 0096 0 74 000 0000 1 74 064 0096 0 74 000 0000 1 72 064 0096 0 72 000 0000 1 69 064 0096 0 69 000 0000 1 72 064 0096 0 72 000 0000 1 71 064 0096 0 71 000 0000 1 69 064 0096 0 69 000 0000 1 67 064 0192 0 67 000 0000 1 74 064 0096 0 74 000 0000 1 79 064 0192 0 79 000 0000 1 77 064 0096 0 77 000 0000 1 76 064 0192 0 76 000 0000 1 74 064 0096 0 74 000 0000 1 72 064 0096 0 72 000 0000 1 76 064 0096 0 76 000 0000 1 77 064 0096 0 77 000 0000 1 74 064 0192 0 74 000 0000 1 74 064 0096 0 74 000 0000 1 79 064 0192 0 79 000 0000 1 77 064 0096 0 77 000 0000 1 76 064 0096 0 76 000 0000 1 74 064 0096 0 74 000 0000 1 76 064 0096 0 76 000 0000 1 67 064 0192 0 67 000 0000 1 69 064 0096 0 69 000 0000 1 71 064 0096 0 71 000 0000 1 69 064 0096 0 69 000 0000 1 67 064 0096 0 67 000 0000 1 72 064 0192 0 72 000 0000 1 76 064 0096 0 76 000 0000 1 76 064 0096 0 76 000 0000 1 74 064 0096 0 74 000 0000 1 71 064 0096 0 71 000 0000 1 74 064 0096 0 74 000 0000 1 72 064 0096 0 72 000 0000 1 69 064 0096 0 69 000 0000 1 67 064 0192 0 67 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Died For Love
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
S:Emily Sparkes
A:Suffolk
N:Recorded at Rattlesden 1958/59
D:Many a Good Horseman VTVS01/0
K:GMix %0 sharps/flats
D2|
G2 B2 d2|d2 c2 A2|c2 B2 A2|G4 d2|
g4 f2|e4 d2|c2 e2 f2|d4 d2|
g4 f2|e2 d2 e2|G4 A2|B2 A2 G2|
c4 e2|e2 d2 B2|d2 c2 A2|G4 |]

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:21 AM

Lyr. Add: I WISH, I WISH 2 (Died in Vain)
Grainger coll. 1906
^^
A bold young farmer courted me,
He stole away my liberty,
He stole my heart with a free good will,
Although he's false, I love him still.

There is a flower, I've heard them say,
That's called heartsease by night and day.
I wish I could that flower find,
Would ease my heart and troubled mind.

Down in the meadows she did run,
A-gathering flowers as they sprung,
Some she plucked and some she pulled,
Until she had her apron full.

When first I wore my apron low,
He followed me through frost and snow,
But now my apron strings won't pin
He passes by and says nothing.

I wish to God my babe was born,
And smiling on his daddy's knee,
And I was dead and in my grave,
And the green grass growing over me.

I wish, I wish, but all in vain,
I wish I was a maid again,
But a maid again I cannot be
Since that a young farmer lay still by me.

There is a bird on yonder tree,
Some say he's blind and cannot see.
I wish it had been the same with me
Before that I met with your company.

Tune coll. by Percy Grainger, 1906; "widespread in Britain."
I Wish I Wish

Apparently many variants.

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:37 AM

Forgot to mention that the website with the Grainger version has a very good midi.

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:20 AM

Om & I sing a version that goes:

I wish I wish and I wish in vain
I wish I was a maiden again
but maiden again I can't never be
til the green apple grows on the red cherry tree

Ah many's the night love with you I wandered
Many's the night with you I've strayed
And I thought our love would go on for ever
but now I find that it was all in vain

And I wish I wish and I wish in vain
I wish I was a maiden again
but maiden again I can't never be
til the green apple grows on the red cherry tree

Ah dig me a grave and you dig it deep my dear
with the devil below me and the angels above
and I will lay down and I'll go to sleep my dear
and you tell the world I died for love

And I wish I wish and I wish in vain
I wish I was a maiden again
but maiden again I can't never be
til the green apple grows on the red cherry tree

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: pavane
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 03:39 AM

Just noticed this version in the Bodley collection, which doesn't seem to have been mentioned before:

Brisk Young Sailor

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: pavane
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 06:00 AM

There is also a similar version in Bodley entitled Brisk Young Farmer - this one has the marble stone verse, unlike the Sailor version.

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: 8_Pints
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 01:29 PM

See also thread http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=65073&messages=101&page=1&desc=yes#1089284 created by Sue vG.

Bob vG

Make a link ("blue clicky") doesn't work as intuitively as I'd hoped!

Grrr!

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 02:05 PM

Some verses in Randolph:

I wish, I wish in vain,
I wish I was a maid again,
But a maid again I'll never be,
Till apples grow on the orange tree.

It was when I wore my aprons long,
He followed me through frost and snow,
But now I wear them under my chin,
He passes by an' won't look in.

Remember this and bear in mind,
A constant friend is hard to find,
An' when you find one good an' true
Don't change the old one for the new.

Must I be bound while he goes free?
Must I love a man that don't love me?
Or must I act a foolish part
An' die for a man that's broke my heart?

Mrs. Violet Savory Justice, Missouri, 1928. Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, vol. 1, The Butcher Boy 45B, p. 227 (new printing).

A superior final verse:

Upon my breast put a turtle dove,
To show the world I died of love,
Around my grave build a five-rail fence
To show the world that i didn't have any sense.

Mr. Otto Ernest Rayburn, Missouri, 1932. Ozark Folksongs, ibid., D, p. 228.

Subject: Lyr Add: MAIDEN'S PRAYER and MINER COMING HOME...
From: Joybell
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 11:05 PM

Sorry to add to this confusion but I don't think these two are here anywhere and I want to discuss rude songs that are not rude.

1. The Maiden's Prayer (different from the other one)
Collected by John Meredith in 1959 at Gulgong NSW. Australia. Sung by "Cat" McManus who learned it from Alan "Killer" Riley - a truck-driver who got it from a tent-mate in the area of Bourke where they were trapping rabbits. Ref. "Folk Songs of Australia and the men and women who sang them" John Meridith and Hugh Anderson. 1967.

THE MAIDEN'S PRAYER

A maiden young and fair was she
Who lived in high society
A soldier brave and bold was he
Who stole of her virginity

And when her apron strings hung low
He chased her through the ice and snow
And now her apron strings don't meet
He passes her by on the street

Her father returning late one night
He found her home without a light
He went straightway up to her room
And found her hanging in the gloom

(2 lines missing)
He took his knife and he cut her down
And on her breast these words he found:

Oh Father, Father dig my grave
Place me beside a garden wall (sic)
And on my grave place a turtle-dove
To show this world I died for love.

2. A Miner Coming Home One Night
From "More Rugby Songs" Sphere Books copyright Harry Morgan 1968. No information on any of the songs.

A MINER COMING HOME ONE NIGHT

A miner coming home one night
Found his house without a light
So he went upstairs to bed
And then a thought entered his head

He went into his daughter's room
And found her hanging from a beam (sic)
He took a knife and cut her down
And in her hand this note he found:

"My love is for a bold marine
I always, always think of him
And though he's far across the sea
He never, never thinks of me       (surprise!surprise!)

So all you maidens bear in mind
A good man's love is hard to find
Dig my grave both wide and deep
And rest my weary bones in sleep".

They dug her grave both wide and deep
And laid white lilies at her feet
On her breast a turtle-dove
To signify she died for love.

The tunes for these two songs are identical. I'm aware that they belong with "The Butcher's Boy" too , but Oh! what a tangled web..   Joy

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Susan of DT
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 08:37 AM

When songs have so many floating verses, it is hard to know how many versions to add to the DT. And, sometimes, which family to consider it to be part of.

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: GUEST,chaz
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 03:40 PM

i was told this poem once...

A faithless shepherd courted me
he stole away my liberty
When my poor heart was strange to men,
he came and smiled and stole it then

when my apron would hang low,
he came and sought me hrough frost nd snow,
when it puckered up in shame,
and i sought him he never came

i wish, i wish, but its in vain,
i wish i was a maid again,
a maid again i cannot be,
oh when will green grass cover me?

i wish my babe were ne'er born
ive made its pillow on a thorn
i wish our sorrows both away
our souls with god, our bodies clay

Subject: RE: Penguin: I Wish, I Wish
From: Ythanside
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 09:00 PM

In London city where I did dwell,
A soldier boy I loved quite well,
He courted me my life away,
But now with me he will not stay.

I wish, I wish, I wish in vain,
I wish I were a maid again,
But a maid again I ne'er shall be,
'Til apples grow on an ivy tree.

I wish my baby it were born,
And smiling on its daddy's knee,
And me for years to be dead and gone,
With the long green grass growing over me.

She went upstairs to go to bed,
And calling on her mother said,
Give me a chair that I might sit down,
And a pen and ink that I might write down.

Her father came and the door he broke,
And found her hanging from a rope,
He took a knife and he cut her down,
And on her breast this note he found.

Oh, dig my grave long wide and deep,
Put a marble stone at my head and feet,
And in the middle a turtle dove,
That the world may know that I died for love.


From the singimg of my brother, a 2nd BTN Scots Guardsman 1950-1959.