Thought for the Day - Feb 23

Subject: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 10:10 AM

The latest Woody Allen film, Sweet and Lowdown, features a fictional 30's jazz guitarist named Emmet Ray (played lovingly by Sean Penn), who is the 2nd greatest guitarist in the world (after Django), and is also a total self-centred bastard. What makes the film interesting is that for about 99% of the film, the story raises the question whether you can be a monster and still make beautiful music. At the end of the film, the typical Romantic theme takes over: he will never be a top musician (i.e. better than Django) unless he comes to terms with his emotional limitations, and learns to love. This seems to fly in the face of the facts: and the lady musician I saw it with last night happily regaled me afterwards with stories of hideous bastards who were deeply emotional in their music, capable of tugging at the heartstrings of everyone in a hundred mile radius. I know poets and writers better, and I can think of many examples of geniuses who were not remotely in touch with anything that resembles normal human feeling. Such are the vagaries of art.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 10:23 AM

Mayhap, dear Peter, there is something in the architecture ofbastards that we are not seeing clearly. I have an image (handed me by my Ma) of Dylan Thomas reeling drunkenly in a New York bar, a hard-drinking and sometimes abusinve man. Never a sweeter bard, for all that.

What lurks in the hearts of these men and women that their public voices and their personal actions seem so disparate and at arms with each other?

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: KathWestra
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 10:29 AM

I have known and loved men for whom expressing emotions in the normal course of things was virtually impossible. Singing is the only way they know to get those feelings out (although they may not consciously know this, and certainly wouldn't admit to it). When these guys sing, their careful mask drops away and they let you see into their heart and share feelings they'd never dream of expressing in conversation. Because those deep wells of emotion, never shared in other contexts, come out only when singing, their singing is incredibly, potently compelling. Unfortunately, it's not the stuff on which solid, long-term partnerships are built.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Peg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 10:34 AM

a great short story by Charles de Lint (himself a Celtic musician) called Our Lady of the Harbour tells of such a musician...traditional fiddler in Canada, who is almost changed by a mysterious young woman who cannot speak...highly recommended.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 10:42 AM

I'm with Kath, plus there's the old question of artists' brain chemistry and bipolarity.

Still, we don't HAVE to be arseh*les.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 11:08 AM

Just because you are able to tap your creativity does not mean you have dropped your crap. We all have bags of garbage we carry throughout our lives. An artist is no exception. In fact, when an artist has truly found something they love doing, it makes it easier for them to completely absorb themselves in their work as a way to avoid dealing with unresolved emotional issues.
We are all in the same boat when is comes to letting go of our 'bags of burden'.
Life becomes much more fun when you can let go of your drama. Emotional issues take up a great deal of energy. Drop the issues and more of your energy becomes available. You could use that energy towards being more creative.

Little Neo

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 11:10 AM

Could you repost that in all caps?

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Mbo
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 11:10 AM

Tell me about it!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 11:11 AM

Sing out, Bano girl! I luvs ya!

A

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Molly Malone
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 11:17 AM

I know two wonderful bards. One is an egotistic, self-centered, self-important man with an incredible voice and more talent than any 5 men I know. When he gets on stage you fall in love with him. When you talk to him off stage you want to deck him.

The other has a powerful voice that could sing a colicky babe to sleep, and talent to spare...and the heart of an angel.

What's the difference? The first one, you fall in love with his talent, the second, you fall in love with the man. The first will probably shoot himself in the foot and be miserable. The second, it won't matter if he's famous or if he plays in the same coffee house for the rest of his life...as long as he's playing, he's happy.

And no, neither of these is my hubby, so I show no bias here.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 11:38 AM

This one is so close to home, Peter. I have learned to let the genius go and let him "shoot himself in the foot" etc., as Molly says. BUT, it is hard to see that happen, not so much from caring for him, but from caring that it impedes the progress of the music he has written.

He is so wrapped up in one vision of himself, that he has become a mechanical person, with no soul to pour into even his composing these days. A willfull bastard who defies the deity he professes to believe in and gives no acknowledgement of any accmplishments or blessings.

He has always been so afraid he would die, unknown, then be "discovered" and not be around to reap the benefits he craves so badly. I used to buy into that "drama" as LilNeo puts it so well, but anymore, I just feel sad that he cannot see it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I know my parents did the best they knew how to at the time, but I wish people had been a little more enlightened back then about balance in the life of a child prodigy, although since I believe in karma etc., I am not sure that would've helped in this instance and take comfort in believing this was the way it was supposed to be for all concerned.

Thanks for listening,

kat

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 11:56 AM

prayers katward

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Troll
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 12:10 PM

We are not automatically paid-up members of the human race except by birth. We all need to be bounced around in a barrel with the rest of humanity. That is what makes (and keeps) us human. If we don't have that we become self-absorbed and can see little value in other people. Thus we alienate ourselves from our brothers and sisters and see them as little more than objects. And we don't respect objects, we use them to further our own ends without regard for their feelings. All the talent in the world will not make you human. Only by interacting with people and respecting them do we achieve that status.To do less is to be less than human.

troll

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 12:13 PM

Wow, Troll, I think you just put your finger on it BIG TIME! Nice legs, too!**BG**

Thanks and to you, too, Praise.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Max
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 12:13 PM

True Art is an expression of one's deep spots, your inner most self, all your passions and fears, happiness, etc. If you are not genuine, it will come out in your art.

Some musicians are artists, some are entertainers. The egotist happens to sing a song that's not about him or herself, they are acting and entertaining.

I am a huge fan of Taj Mahal and had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of years ago. He was genuine, pleasant and down right fun to be around. His musical style is right out of his heart, never over polished or outside of what he is.

I also met Robert Cray. Talk about an arsehole. He was rude to his fans, short, and just didn't seem to care. His music is finely polished and precise... and devoid of anything remotely related to passion. Plastic Music.

Taj Mahal is Art, folk even. If you happen to dig Robert Cray's music, I'd call it entertainment, not art. Rich guy pretending to be blue while laughing on his way to the bank with your money.

Though sometimes arseholes are guilty about their egotism or other personality defects or less than righteous actions. Sometimes you will see or hear their demons come out in there music. This is certainly an energy that can create some good art. Like, perhaps, Johnny Cash...

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 12:13 PM

And cares pratward.

We all have our destinies to work out, and (take it from one who has been there) grinding down the big button of Self Importance is surely a big part of the work. As the redneck said when he wore a tux to his vasectomy, "If Ah'm gwineter be impotent, Ah aim to look impotent...

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 12:25 PM

Very good point Troll. I still think we have to clear our own crap to respect ourselves so we can then genuinely interact and respect others.

Max I appreciate your insight. It is so true.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 12:29 PM

That is why I love the 'Cat...it is full of people who know what it means to achieve human-ness and are willing to let each other and others discover more about that amazing process. Thanks, Max and Troll and Neo, for your warming insights. You guys are Pure Dee.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: GUEST,Neil Lowe
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 01:10 PM

I worked a brief stint in a private clinic for schizophrenics in East Los Angeles. My duties mostly consisted of distributing Thorazine and chasing down "walk-offs" (it was a "progressive" clinic - no locks on doors or windows) who could usually be found at the corner bar bumming cigarettes. There was a guy there (probably still is - the woman for whom the clinic was named was still there after fourteen years) who, I was told, was a child prodigy at age six, a violinist from upstate New York who had won numerous competitions. Yet here he was, some fifteen years later, wandering up and down the halls, oblivious to almost everything except what was required of him from the other orderlies to receive the reward of tobacco.

"Where are you?" they would ask.

His eyes would flutter for a moment. He'd respond, "Columbia," and they would light his Marlboro for him. All he did was pace and smoke.

I wonder what sent him over the edge. Whatever it was had taken the meat of the man with it, and left an empty flesh closet meandering about in its stead. It seemed as though he'd lost his anchor to the earth. I began to think no one got out of that place alive, much less with their sanity, and when visitors began mistaking me for one of the patients, I got "the cure" and left.

Neil

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 01:26 PM

Neil, Neil...Thank God you're out! (:>)

Seriously, that is a deep sad tale, and it shows how poor we are in understanding our own ways and the architecture of our powerful and sometimes chaotic sides. To think such genius was lost overboard, because noone knew how to build a decent lifepreserver... well, the analogy sucks, but you see the point, I guess. Thanks for the story. It will stay with me.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 01:40 PM

In identifying the arseholes... and dealing with having them in our lives in any way...

Then there is the gift of discernment (by which I mean a God-given spiritual Gift) to be able to distinguish what is OF God from what is NOT of God, especially (I think) in the people around us and what they put out.

There is also good old human intuition when your gut tells you something is just not quite exactly ON.

Then there is the wisdom of the community, and their collective discernment. Anyway, they say it well here in my little town-- if you aren't genuine, word will get around pretty fast. It may happen sooner or it may happen later, but when it happens, it's fast and its permanent.

I depend on these to keep loving what needs loving in order to grow, and to interrupt what needs interrupting in order to be looked at with some measure of intentionality. (I believe that without harnessing our intentionality we are subject to doing most things the hard way.) I depend on being responsive to that inner sense and Sense to accept the good that is offered, regardless of who offers it.

In our Book of Common Payer is addressed the question: "What if the priest is a notoriously evil one? Is communion, received from the hands of an unclean priest, valid?" The answer has to do with the inner experience of communion coming from God Himself, incorruptible. I would hope that many of the gifted people we struggle to understand, however flawed or really evil, are (in part) vessels of something greater. Since I experience music as part of God's creation for us and in us, this works well for me, because I allow it into me in that way. But true evil can also be transmitted musically (I mean more than satanic lyrics), and I still struggle to understand this. I think it must come down to, what filter are you running?

BTW, from time to time I may share my thoughts from this Christian perspective. I'd like you to know that it's not my intention to proselytize at you. I would hope that the thoughtfulness I try for in when I come from that place would be supported by fellow 'Cateers who know I am focusing on the topic raised when I do come from there. When you respond genuinely to me, that's effective support, whether your response is humor or shared insights or anger or whatever.

Just try not to kick me when your knee jerks. Wait instead for a clear thought, and then wind up for a good purposeful boot!

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 01:47 PM

I don't much mind what you call your perspective, Praise. It isn't the name you put on it that matters much, but what you do with it, I guess. I stay away from temples of all kinds on general principle, but that is equally irrelevant; it is by their fruits that ye know them, branded or not.

A

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 01:55 PM

yes

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 01:59 PM

My vines have tender grapes.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 02:01 PM

Spaw,
Aren't they supposed to be pulled off before they're stomped?

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 02:27 PM

Leave Spaw's vine out of this...it's done been stomped enough. It's got so many old gray threads on it it looks like the porch on the Old Playmates Home. Just ask Bonnie how she knows how old he is...

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: Troll
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 02:28 PM

Praise, you impress me as a very wise person and I am proud to share threads with you. You make your points cogently and with humor, so preach away. We'll all listen and take whatever speaks to each of us. Remember, we're all in this together.

troll

Is it medication time already? Oh nurse?

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 02:31 PM

Thank you, Amos, for that powerful imagery, which is quite delightfully disgusting. I should have resisted the temptation to go for the easy line. Spaw is such a troublemaker. I contemplate with fear that response may lead to emulation. I live in fear that becoming a female Spaw, I might find a possum where something lese should be.

As someone said, it brings out my Inner Weasel.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 02:49 PM

My grapes may well be smashed, but Praise, please resist the temptation of your inner weasel. I'd hate for you to get your, uh, welll, you know..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 05:33 PM

Now that was really nasty spaw. For God's sake don't post the male equivalent.

It'd be great if the good stuff came from the good buys, and the arsesholes produced rubbish. But it ain't like that.

I suspect that folk music probably does relatively well - we all know examples of great performers who are also really good people. So I think it's pretty clear in our corner of the forest that while being a shit needn't stop you producing beautiful stuff, it isn't a prerequisite.

But in lots of types of music, and types of painting and types of writing, there really is an unspoken assumption that the price of being really good at the art is that you have to be pretty nasty at most other things in life, and that if you aren't an arsehole you must be secondrate. It's as if the old legends about selling your soul to the devil in order to get the power to make music or whatever really were believed.

I suspect for lots of people there's a fear that if they guve in to the temptation to join the human race, they'll break the spell and lose the power. That and the business KathWestra suggested about how performing etc can be a way knotted up feelings can be enabled to emerge - the two go hand in hand, and wreck a lot of lives of people who produce some beautiful stuff.

I'm glad this thread hasn't lurched into people listing artistes who are or aren't arseholes.There's a horrible fascination in that kind of thing, but no, please...

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - Feb 23
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 09:47 PM

Yeah, but at least Spaw either misread my post or chose the lesser evil for his response!

I used that phrase here last week with someone who was so gommorrahfied over it I thought I'd pass out. Usually she slings a pretty good mouthful herself, but apparently here in our small town they haven't heard that one yet. Now I have to get some more color toner to print it for her.