Help: What's a 'penny bap'?

Subject: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 01:31 PM

In the Irish children's song, "The Wee Falorie Man" he has a large penny bap. Whazzit? What's a falorie man anyway???

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 01:34 PM

A Bap is a kind of a bun or a roll. Not sure about falorie - I don't know the song, and it doesn't seem to be in the DT. Let's see it.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 01:35 PM

Could be a type of bread roll. From growing up in England you had "cobs" which were hard crusty rolls, and "baps" which were the soft rolls.

May be totally off mind you

Regrds Rana

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: MMario
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 01:43 PM

is in DT...http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=7131 or click here

there was at least one other discussion of this in the forum. You don't realize how much you use a feature (super-search) until it is gone. *sigh*

I canna find it.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 02:02 PM

Baps are generally considered to be Welsh. They are very soft buns or small loaves made with a milk dough and they have a floured crust (if you can call it a crust, it's very soft).

To make them you start with a white bread dough and use milk instead of water. You can also add some butter if you like. Make the dough very soft so that when the bap rises it's still kind of flat. The dough is so soft that you have to keep it well floured to form the buns. Leave the flour coating on it and bake at around 350 'till very light brown. Make the loaf in a similar way. It will be a very flat loaf. Score it into eight, like a pizza, before letting it rise.

They are absolutely heaven to eat and are also good toasted.

Hmmm, think I'll make some this weekend.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 02:15 PM

Forget the detailed descriptions. A bap is just a hamburger bun, a bit bigger in diameter.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 02:28 PM

Have you ever tasted one Jim;-)

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 02:31 PM

A penny coin was one 144th part of an old English pound.
Here in Cornwall we have Leopard Baps made as Bert describes but then covered with a milky flour mixture to give a spotted type of crust. They are as Bert says, great to eat.
Don't confuse a penny bap with a hamburger bap, these awful things weren't about when you could buy a bap for a penny.
Baz

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: InOBU
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 02:35 PM

These days probably about 12 pence from Hughes Bakery in Belfast... and bring me some hovis... and a pint o killishandra milk, ta...
Larry

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 02:46 PM

Ok, I should have said a bap *looks like* a hamburger bun. I have never tasted one. In a pub in Oxford I saw sandwiches being served in baps (that's what the menu called them), and I have heard people refer to hamburger buns as baps. That's really all I know.

When in England, I try to avoid food that looks too American. Otherwise, what's the point in leaving home?

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 03:41 PM

Aha, thought so Jim, baps taste good, Hamburger buns are tasteless. You're forgiven;-)

However Baz is in trouble for that 144 pence booboo. In the days of real money there were 240 pennies in a pound. 12 pennies in a shilling, 20 shillings in a pound.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 03:56 PM

OK, I've heard of thread creep, but . . .

Am I right or wrong in thinking that, in the good old days, when there was a fixed exchange rate between American dollars and British pounds, because both were worth a certain amount of gold-- that one American penny was worth one British penny? And therefore $2.40 equaled exactly one pound?

Even my brother-in-law, who teaches economics in Brighton, couldn't answer that one.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 04:08 PM

Dunno, I'm not that old. A pound used to be worth about $4 at one time, so the 'crown', a coin worth 5 shillings, was called a dollar. Or in rhyming slang, an 'Oxford Scholar' usually shortened to 'an Oxford'. For some reason they were considered to be unlucky by publicans, so you couldn't use one to buy a drink. The crown was not used much, but the half crown coin was.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Penny S.
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 05:26 PM

There was a similar Kentish roll called a huffkin, which has now all but disappeared (I haven't seen one for years) as the bap has taken over the country completely.

Penny

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 05:30 PM

From about the end of WWII an English pound was worth $2.80, until Britain devalued in 1967. From then till 71 or 72 a penny was worth a cent (until we devalued again!)

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: alison
Date: 15 Mar 00 - 06:38 PM

Yes, its a bread roll... but it could also be a sweetened one... like in "My Aunt Jane" - "half a bap with sugar on the top".....

the Aussies had no idea what I was talking about when I asked what they wanted on their bap for lunch..... mind you asking them if they wanted a "jam piece" got the same reaction......

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:20 AM

Alison, growing up in Belfast, I often had half a bap for my piece. Sometimes a Vienna roll or a "baton", or if my ma was in a good mood, a soda farl and Tayto crisp sammidge. A year or two ago I wrote a wee song called A Ulster Fry and Champ to the tune of the Sash. Belfast people would drool all over the tables, their mouths were watering that hard. All the best. Seamus

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:49 AM

Bert I had not heard that sort of soft bap as I call them was Welsh although it could be. The bread I always think of as being the Welsh loaf is bara brith, a loaf with fruit in it.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 02:02 AM

Oh and Bert if you do like baking, just did a search and found this http://soar.berkeley.edu/recipes/ethnic/welsh/

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 02:30 AM

Jon, in Belfast, the loaf with fruit in it is a Barm Brack. All the best. Seamus

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 02:47 AM

Now Seamus, re-reading and seeing soda, I once stopped near Kildare and the lady who's house I was camping by baked her own soda bread on her peat fueled range. It was delicious!

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Muzzer (inactive)
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 03:11 AM

it's a mutten filled bread bap, the size of a small postage stamp therefore costing only one penny, in Ireland [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From:
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:25 AM

Alison. I have been buying baps in Australia since I came here in '75. Before that I had only heard of them in Josephine Tey book in which her Inspector Grant goes to Scotland and is given a bap; but is told that since the war they no longer have "chew".

A bap does not look like a hamburger bun! It looks like a scone that has taken to overeating and doing no exercise.

By the way, what is the origin of the word "bap"?

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:38 AM

Whilst I wouldn't want to discourage debate on the Mudcat, there is a Cambridge University backed site that contains both American English and English dictionaries to help with words that do not translate across the pond.

Click here to go to Cambridge International Dictionary

Personally I'd recommend that Oxford English Dictionary site as that University was my Alma Mater but this one is free and the OED costs £350.00 per annum.

Hyp

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Ritchie
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:52 AM

Go north young man and hav yesell a bit of 'stotty cake' with real butter filled with ham and peese pudding.

Ritchie ( oh how I miss real money when you could buy a ....... and still have change left ....)

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: alison
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 07:29 AM

Seamus I'd love to see the words of your song please....

I'm a Belfast girl myself........ I still make champ over here..... must make some tomorrow for St Pats.... I'd love a tayto cheese and onion sandwich.. or a big piece of Veda..... or a piece of barm brack toasted with the butter dripping off it........... mmmmmmmmmm

recently I found a shop that imports soda and potato bread...... although you can make good potato bread with instant mashed spud powder... hahaha

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 08:02 AM

From one of my favorite recitations...
Then the B specials in their turret cars came
and the three inch bullets fell down just like rain
and me old bakery van was pieced front and aback
but the baps in the van repeled the attack
and they were Hughes, aye, Barney Hughes
Aye God bless Barney Hughes and his old Bakery van!

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 08:22 AM

This is amazing. Ask a simple question and become educated on cross-Atlantic semantics, finer aspects of culinary cuisine, and the origin of the pound vs. dollar! Thanks, all. On to create a new thread: What's a wee falorie man?

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 11:05 AM

Wow! great recipe thread Jon, I'm going to have to try all those. They've even got a recipe for clotted cream.

In England, baps were often called Welsh Baps, so I just assumed that they were Welsh. But then again we also ate Welsh Rabbit, so maybe it's just another piece of folklore.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 12:42 PM

Here's a recipe for Huffkins, until we find a bap one.

Contributed by our school secretary, J Chaffey, to our school cookbook (copies still available) Sorry it's metric, but we were under compulsion. It's a straight translation, though.

1.5 g fresh yeast or 1 1/2 teaspoons dried yeast and a pinch of sugar

225 g mixed warm milk and water

450 g plain flour (it doesn't say it should be bread flour)

1 teaspoon salt

2 teaspoons sugar

50 g butter, diced

Preheat the oven to 425 F or 220 C.
Grease two baking sheets.
Blend the yeast with the milk and water, or, if using dried, sprinkle it into the milk and water with the pinch of sugar and leave for 15 minutes until frothy.
Put the flour, salt and sugar into a bowl, and rub in the butter. Make a well in the centre and add the liquid. Beat together well to form a dough that leaves the sides of the bowl clean.
Turn onto a floured surface and knead well for ten minutes until smooth and elastic.
Place in a clean bowl and cover with a clean tea-towel (what you dry dishes with, or similar, not the fluffy sort), leaving it to rise in a warm place for one hour or until it has doubled in size.
Divide it into twelve and roll by hand into oval cakes about half an inch thick. Place on the baking sheets, cover, and leave for about 30 minutes until doubled in size.
Make a deep thumb mark in the centre and bake for 15-20 minutes, wrap in a warm tea-towel and leave to cool. This keeps the crust soft.

Penny

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 12:56 PM

Bert

I think you mean Welsh Rarebit... It's basically cheese on toast but a good recipe is:-

Two slice of granary bread toasted back under the grill covered with a mixture of...

Grated strong cheddar cheese A little mayo to bind A teasoonful of wholegrain mustard Freshly ground sea salt and black peppercorns

Splash a little Worcetershire sauce on top. Grill til Golden brown.

Enjoy and try not to think about cholesterol...

Hyp

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:01 PM

That looks pretty close Penny. Just dust 'em with flour and leave off the thumb print and it will be perfect.
And well you should apologise for working in Sillimeters. 450 grams indeed, I'm surprised it wasn't 453.6 ;-) and what the hell is a metric teaspoon?

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:08 PM

5 ml

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:13 PM

We're studying the Spartans. I've decided to be laconic.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:16 PM

Welsh Rarebit, Welsh Rarebit, ideed!, mutter - mutter, It was always WELSH RABBIT 'till the g&^$%#m hoity toity bowdlerists got to it;-)

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:21 PM

And mayo?

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 05:47 PM

A recipe for "Scotch Bap" from Mary Norwak, with some babies.

1/2 oz fresh yeast (The recipe above should have this quantity)

1/2 pt mixed milk and water, warmed

1 lb strong flour

1 teaspoon salt

2 oz lard

Blend the yeast in the milk and water until dissolved.
Mix the flour and salt, and rub in the lard.
Add the liquid and work to a firm dough which leaves the sides of the bowl clean.
Knead on a floured surface until firm and elastic, and no longer sticky.(10 mins)
Leave to rise, covered, until doubled in size, and the dough springs back when pressed.
Turn out onto floured surface and knock down with knuckles, knead again until the dough is firm.(2 mins)
Divide into thirds, and use two to shape into a ball. Roll out with a floured rolling pin to about 3/4 inch thick.
Place on a well floured baking tray and dredge with flour.
Divide the remaining third into four, shape each into balls and roll out to ovals about 1/2 inch thick. Place on a floured baking tray and dredge with flour.
Cover and allow to rise until doubled in size.(45 mins).
Press bap and each mini gently in hte centre with three fingers to prevent blisters.
Bake at 200 C or 400 F for 20 - 30 minutes for the large bap, and 15 - 20 for the smaller ones.

The large one sounds like a stotty cake to me.

Penny

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:04 PM

Bert, I was only looking for Welsh stuff last night but site itself does give recipies from all parts of the word. They are also part of http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/2267/recipering.html. I hate cooking but for those that like it there must be plenty out there for everbody.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:14 PM

In Yorkshire the soft roll is a stotty or breadcake, where I am from in warwickshire it was always a batch. In lancashire I think its a barmcake. Isn't English a wonderful language!!!

Subject: Lyr Add: AN ULSTER FRY & CHAMP
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 03:15 AM

God, you get fat just reading this thread! Alison, here are the words to An Ulster Fry & Champ (to the tune of the Sash). I don't know how to do line breaks yet, so I'll make it as intelligible as I can.

The Frenchman loves his frogs and snails,
And the Welshman likes a leek,
The Scots they like their haggis,
And the English - bubble and squeak.
But when a Belfastman is starvin',
And he feels his stomach cramp,
He just fills it up with an Ulster Fry,
And a great big bowl of Champ.

2nd Verse:
I have travelled all around the world,
To exotic foreign lands;
In cafe and pub I've ate their grub,
With choptick, fork or hands,
I would trade them all to be on the Falls,
Where the weather's could and damp;
Sometimes I'd cry for an Ulster Fry,
Or a great big bowl of Champ.

3rd verse:
Well, and Ulster Fry just makes me sigh,
Fried bacon and fried eggs;
Fried sausages, fried tatey-bread,
Fried tomatoes, it's no geg;
Black puddin' and some soda farls,
All fried in sizzlin' lard,
With a dollop of HP sauce to save
Your arteries from gettin' hard!

4th verse:
Then you peel the spuds and you boil them up,
And you mash them smooth and sweet;
Then add scalded milk and scallions chopped,
There's a taste that's hard to beat.
For a feed of this fine Belfast dish,
All around the world I'd tramp.
With a lump of butter in a hole on top -
That's a great big bowl of champ!

5th verse:
So come all ye Belfast exiles,
Wherever you may be;
Beware those strange exotic foods
From Burger King or Mickey D.,
Don't eat the quarter-pounder or
McNuggets from that camp,
Put a glint in your eye, demand an Ulster Fry,
Or a great big bowl of Champ!

Alison, I would've sung this for you in the St. Patrick's Day Tavern, but it was too crowded in there. I couldn't even get my foot in the dure! All the best. Seamus (I added line breaks - Bert)

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 04:11 AM

Wotsa bowdlerist?

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 05:38 AM

Ar, penny baps! Them waz the days! Yo cud get 14 pints of Ansells gnatspiss, a packet of Woodbines, cod and chips, a quick kneetrembler be'ind the gasworks, a latenight tram 'ome and still 'ave change from fourpence...
RtS (I love the way so many threads start with music questions and end up as foodie ones!)

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 10:58 AM

To Bowdlerize means to change the words to make them more acceptable in polite company.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:16 AM

Bert, thanks a million. I've gotta learn how to do that myself one of these days. Happy St. Patrick's Day. All the best. Seamus

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Wotcha
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:29 AM

Don't forget the English North Country treat: The Chip Butty ... and Jam Butty ...

By the way, going South again, a good handmade bap can be found in the sandwich shop in Blandford Forum.

Cheers, Eid Mubarak (Again) Brian

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:34 AM

Oh I see. Well I used to call it Welsh Rabbit when I was a kid but was constantly corrected and told no the Recipe is Welsh Rarebit.

I guess I've been socially bowdlerised!

Is there a cure...?

Is there any legal redress...?

Hyp

;-)

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:48 AM

There's no real cure, you just have to keep nibbling away at the B@$^@ds.

No legal redress either, but it's great fun to 'correct' people back to using authentic non PC language;-)

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: MMario
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 01:17 PM

actually bert, reference to a cheese dish served over toast or bread bits, as a "rarebit" go back to 1285. And "rarebit" is increasingly common the FURTHER back you go from today towards the 13th centurie in dictionaries and cookbooks. "Rarebit" is also used to describe several other dishes which are basically comprised of a sauce over bread sops. It may be coming back into usage as PC, but it is correct in and of itself, and seems to pre-date the usage of "rabbit" to describe such dishes.

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: Bert
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 03:23 PM

WOBH. Ya got the REAL story there MMario. That's TERRIBLE them PC folks being right after all ;-) I still prefer the 'folk' version though.

Thanks.

Bert

Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'?
From: MMario
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 03:30 PM

~sorry~ I actually did a term paper on the word "rarebit" in college. God, the trivia one collects during a lifetime....